What's the Most Popular V6 Engine for Light Weight Crawlers Currently?

[Opiebennett]

Analysis paralysis...
Build something, drive it.

You'll figure out if it was a terrible mistake, then know what to change.

 

[Sean]

Analysis paralysis...
Build something, drive it.

You'll figure out if it was a terrible mistake, then know what to change.

We have differing philosophies. IMO, with significant investments of time and money it is unwise to take that sort of approach, but you're certainly free to a different opinion.

 

[Bebop]

We have differing philosophies. IMO, with significant investments of time and money it is unwise to take that sort of approach, but you're certainly free to a different opinion.

Then you end up with a heavy pig because you're worried about breakage.

 

[Opiebennett]

We have differing philosophies. IMO, with significant investments of time and money it is unwise to take that sort of approach, but you're certainly free to a different opinion.

Or 10 years goes by and you have a pile of 3 or 4 engines and 2 sets of axles and no weekends wheeling.

I have a buggy with a 3.4L LA1 mini van motor/904/Stak300 and a commando project with a LV3/6L80e/stak300, and a buggy for sale with an LS something/400/atlas in the classifieds. All on fabricated 9" axles, all linked.

I'd sell either buggy. If the buyer of the buggy doesn't like the power and weight of the LS car, I'd trade them straight across for my lighter weight, lower power car. They do 97% of the same things.

 

[Sean]

Then you end up with a heavy pig because you're worried about breakage.

I wouldn't call 4K massively overweight for a 2 seat front engine car. And I'd rather be heavy, not break and have to pull cable occasionally than be a trail tampon b/c I broke something. YMMV.

 

[Bebop]

I wouldn't call 4K massively overweight for a 2 seat front engine car. And I'd rather be heavy, not break and have to pull cable occasionally than be a trail tampon b/c I broke something. YMMV.

Then why the hell are you so worried about weight and keep talking about it ? Makes no sense.

 

[Sean]

Or 10 years goes by and you have a pile of 3 or 4 engines and 2 sets of axles and no weekends wheeling.

Well, luckily I have a built buggy already that I wheel now, but building it took almost 3 years so I get what you're saying and wager I too realize just how precious time is as a commodity, but also believe in the adage that failing to plan is planning to fail.

 

[Sean]

Then why the hell are you so worried about weight and keep talking about it ? Makes no sense.

You do get that this is a discussion board, right? And I didn't say I wasn't at all worried about weight....I said specifically that it matters and that lighter would be better. I didn't know it needed to be said that there's a point of diminishing returns and you have to have a balance of weight/strength to reliability.

Just something to add to the thread: LS1 aluminum block only is 106 lbs. Cast Iron LSX block is ~230. Weights of LS Blocks - LS1TECH - Camaro and Firebird Forum Discussion So an aluminum block will save you roughly 124 lbs.

 

[Bebop]

You do get that this is a discussion board, right? And I didn't say I wasn't at all worried about weight....I said specifically that it matters and that lighter would be better. I didn't know it needed to be said that there's a point of diminishing returns and you have to have a balance of weight/strength to reliability.

This car is 3700lbs.
With an Iron 5.3, a TH700 and an atlas.
It has never broken and the owner isn't afraid to put the pedal to the floor..
There is nothing crazy about your weight goal.

Just build something.

 

[pinchegringo]

Whatever you put in it you have to carry uphill. Lighter buggies always work better but light stuff costs big money. I have some moon stuff I'm working on but the deal I'm finishing up now is cheap easy 5.3ls. Plug and play junk yard grab a part from town easy peazy. Eventually I will complete what I want but I'm not super rich and will enjoy my basic bitch Ls ride for now. If you have time and 100k for parts build a monster. If you need a capable easy rig just grab a 5.3 and be happy.

 

['84 Bronco II]

Agreed, to an extent. Lighter and smaller would be better. To me, anything 4K or under without passengers is a win. Can I get there with an aluminum LSX, TH400 and Hero 3 speed (or Behemoth D300 maybe) and portal 9s with 42" reds or Milestars? Maybe....but it won't be easy and I realize that.

And I didn't mean to come off as harsh with that comment about your comments sending off in search of a lighter combo. That was a good exercise in analyzing the cost to benefit. Apologies.

You can easily get under 4,000Lbs with an iron LS and TH400 combo. I think a Hero is the wrong transfercase for a portal car, and with V8 power, you don't need multiple low ranges. I would personally go with an Atlas or bling Dana 300.

I appreciate your opinion and advice and I don't mean to sound contrary, but the TH400 is only 15 lbs heavier than the TH350. The Atlas 2 speed I have now was 115 lbs IIRC with the flanges on it, so I'm not saving much (35 lbs) and give up a useable 2.5:1 in the 3 speed Hero. If I were going to swap the cases, I think I'd go D300...since it cuts 78 lbs over the Heroes I have and is about 2" shorter overall (in height) so the belly could be smaller by an inch.

For reliability/durability/versatility I feel like the 50 lb trade off (in tranny/tcase) is worth it. Lord knows I could stand to lose 20 lbs myself to offset some of it, lol.

But yeah, one really attractive feature is I can build around these iron block engines now and swap to aluminum block ones before they are completed.

Then you end up with a heavy pig because you're worried about breakage.

It's this mentality that "it's only 10Lbs here, 20 Lbs there" that people end up with fat underperforming pigs. It is also my experience that the fat pig rigs that break more because the extra weight puts more stress on everything and their drivers are having to beat on them harder to make the same lines.

This car is 3700lbs.
With an Iron 5.3, a TH700 and an atlas.
It has never broken and the owner isn't afraid to put the pedal to the floor..
There is nothing crazy about your weight goal.

Just build something.

I've posted my buddy's rig before, but it weighs ~3,800 Lbs.
Iron 6.0L (LQ4 or LQ9), TH400, 3.8 Atlas, Junkyard Kingpin 60 and Sterling 10.25 with full width trusses, and remote reservoir coil overs and air bumps at all four corners. With an aluminum block LS, a TH350, and fabricated 9" axles, you could easily get it down to 3,500Lbs.
He uses that 6.0L and his buggy has been very reliable.

 

[Bebop]

It is also my experience that the fat pig rigs that break more because the extra weight puts more stress on everything and their drivers are having to beat on them harder to make the same lines.

Yeahhhhhhhhh I'll stop you right there.

No thing breaks like yotas and they're light

 

['84 Bronco II]

Yeahhhhhhhhh I'll stop you right there.

No thing breaks like yotas and they're light

It's all about strength to weight and having that weight where the strength is actually beneficial and not just putting more load on everything else. Toyotas have their place, but I don't think it's with sticky 40"+ tires and V8s

 

[AndyPatrick]

Here's what I've heard from other gearheads:

Ford's 3.0L Duratec V6 - a strong contender, maybe a bit lighter than the LFX. Bigger aftermarket presence for things like performance mods and adapter plates to mate it with a traditional automatic like your preferred TH400. Might be a touch trickier to find junkyard versions with low miles, but definitely worth exploring.

Honda J-Series V6 - these things are known for being bulletproof and come in a few different displacements around the 3.0L mark. Finding one might be a bit tougher depending on your location, but the aftermarket for these engines is massive. Adapter plates and performance parts are readily available.

Nissan VQ30DE - maybe a bit on the outside looking in, but these Nissan V6 engines are known for being peppy and relatively lightweight. Aftermarket support is decent, and they can be found in junkyards from various Nissan models.

 

[Sean]

Here's what I've heard from other gearheads:

Ford's 3.0L Duratec V6 - a strong contender, maybe a bit lighter than the LFX. Bigger aftermarket presence for things like performance mods and adapter plates to mate it with a traditional automatic like your preferred TH400. Might be a touch trickier to find junkyard versions with low miles, but definitely worth exploring.

Honda J-Series V6 - these things are known for being bulletproof and come in a few different displacements around the 3.0L mark. Finding one might be a bit tougher depending on your location, but the aftermarket for these engines is massive. Adapter plates and performance parts are readily available.

Nissan VQ30DE - maybe a bit on the outside looking in, but these Nissan V6 engines are known for being peppy and relatively lightweight. Aftermarket support is decent, and they can be found in junkyards from various Nissan models.

When looking into the Honda J-Series....the adapter plates came down to two sources. One's no longer doing them (Marked Motorsports) and the other is a small operation that didn't seem all that interested in continuing to do them.

The Ford option does look like a good one though....

 

[Ghetto Fab.]

This dude is making some adapters now. He has built a few buggies with the J motor and I like his starter placement better.

 

[Bebop]

Brett is legit.

 

[Ghetto Fab.]

Brett is legit.

Yes, he builds some sweet buggies!

 

[the_white_shadow]

Yep. Brett makes some badass shit.

 

[chaplinfj60]

so quick school cliff notes on J engines. are they all the same, or is one better than the other as far as after market support or for a buggy. i am on the webs and there is a bunch of variants on the J

 

[Sean]

so quick school cliff notes on J engines. are they all the same, or is one better than the other as far as after market support or for a buggy. i am on the webs and there is a bunch of variants on the J

There are like 8 or 12 different housing patterns IIRC...and there is a lot of variation between hp/tq numbers depending on year.

 

[Rockwood]

so quick school cliff notes on J engines. are they all the same, or is one better than the other as far as after market support or for a buggy. i am on the webs and there is a bunch of variants on the J

My understanding is that if you're rewiring the stock ECU, the J35A3/4 models are the only ones you can reasonably make standalone. Everything else will need a standalone ECU.

I believe most of the adapters out there pertain to the above variants as well.

 

[Ghetto Fab.]

My understanding is that if you're rewiring the stock ECU, the J35A3/4 models are the only ones you can reasonably make standalone. Everything else will need a standalone ECU.

I believe most of the adapters out there pertain to the above variants as well.

Thats pretty much what I found too. Like everything else, the newer stuff has a lot more computer control going on. I also found prices for the J35A3/A4 models seem to be the cheapest. You could possibly find an earlier motor for less, but its smaller displacement and less overall power, or you could go for more power and buy a later, larger displacement motor and pay more for it.

 

[Wuz-A-zuk]

I know this is a V6 thread but if you're considering the J-series I'd consider just going to a K-series. The aftermarket is triple that of the J-series, cheaper adapters, a lot more options across the board for parts and vehicle availability and a standalone is also a cheaper and easier option than that of the J.

A 500+HP k-series could be had for the same price of setting up a J at 200-250.

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[Ghetto Fab.]

Since its been derailed, seen this the other day and thought it should be posted somewhere on here. Weights of things are always hard to come by.

 

['84 Bronco II]

Ford's 3.0L Duratec V6 - a strong contender, maybe a bit lighter than the LFX. Bigger aftermarket presence for things like performance mods and adapter plates to mate it with a traditional automatic like your preferred TH400. Might be a touch trickier to find junkyard versions with low miles, but definitely worth exploring.

Is there anyone actually using one of these in a build? DOHC V-configuration engines are just so wide to try and package effectively. I don't see any advantage over an LV3, and if your really wanted a Ford DOHC V6, why not the Cyclone engine family? The cyclone family is all aluminum, 260-305HP depending on application and displacement, and came in longitudinal 4x4 applications.

 

[Treefrog]

Has the 3.6 Pentastar been mentioned yet? Factory auto and manual trans options that readily bolt to an atlas. About 300 hp and 330 lbs. Turbo and supercharger kits available.

 

[Sean]

Has the 3.6 Pentastar been mentioned yet? Factory auto and manual trans options that readily bolt to an atlas. About 300 hp and 330 lbs. Turbo and supercharger kits available.

The 3.6 seems to have a fair amount of problems from what I've seen/read. Granted, I'm knocking on wood right now as the wife has one in her JLUR that's been trouble free (but it hasn't seen any extreme angles either).

 

[Ghetto Fab.]

I almost bought a honda J series motor, but backed off as the deal wasn't really working out and I really wanted to explore the 8spd trans idea. A friend suggested the pentastar motor to get to the 8spd trans and I started going down that rabbit hole. Its interesting how bad the reputation seems to be for that motor, and yet other than some early lifter problems, I can't seem to figure out why? I think its just a motor people love to hate. And maybe its usage in minivans and base model vehicles that get no love, no maintenance, no excitement, so no one wants it.

Technically its a 60deg v6 DOHC with variable valvetrain, all aluminum block and heads. Makes 300hp, 280tq depending on model. Its short, like 19.5" short and from what I have found and can measure its about the same size as the honda J or LZ9 motors. Chrysler has put this motor in everything. From FWD transverse mounted minivans and cars, to RWD longitudinally mounted cars like the charger and 300, to 4wd 1500 trucks and jeeps. From what I can tell all of these are the same basic block and motor, with different oil pan and intake configurations. I think I saw a post that said they had made over 15million of these motors and they are still in production. Even with all of that, they still aren't "cheap" like the honda motor and you need a lot of electronics to run one unless you go stand alone. It looks like you can find charger and chrysler 300 motors for about 1500. Jeep motors seem to go for about 4k for some dumb reason at least those were the prices on carpart.com.

If you can get beyond a th400 or 4L60 trans, the pentastar bolts up to a few 8spd ZF transmissions. The jeep version I believe still uses a 27spline output and an atlas will bolt to it. I think the cheaper charger 8hp45 AWD output shaft is also 27spline. So with possibly just a clocking ring of some sort you should be able to bolt a D300 or atlas to the back of one of those. I'm not sure what version is used in the 1500 trucks(8hp70?), but I would guess its the same scenario.

 

[arse_sidewards]

I can't seem to figure out why? I think its just a motor people love to hate. And maybe its usage in minivans and base model vehicles that get no love, no maintenance, no excitement, so no one wants it.

Pretty much everything automotive reputation related comes down to very minor differences from brand to brand and product to product, variable differences between owners and usage, and people who have no mechanical competency going on the internet and blowing all that shit out of proportion. Say nothing of all the journalists and "content creators" that "need content" so they're constantly whipping up some clickbait bullshit that the know-nothing's love to re-share and magnify.

The pentastar is probably fine. They wouldn't still be making it sans major revisions if it was a warranty money pit.