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What would it take for you to stop....

gladman said:
I think I understand the meaning of faith. it is the spiritual apprehension part that fuels it. How would a person have that spirtual apprehension interrupted? It could be loss... for some on this thread, their faith was proven by answered prayers... for others, loss evaporated that faith. the story of Job is one illustration of God testing faith (presumably to illustrate the value of unwavering faith, although Job does waver, right?)
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Just because we may not like the answer we get in prayer doesn't mean it wasn't answered. No is an answer.

Faith isn't something you pick up and down. We are however human an as such we all waver but we have faith that we will be forgiven.

Me...I do consider myself a Christian. Now to some they would say I'm not a good Christian. They maybe right. I'm not much of one to "turn the other cheek". I'd rather knock their damn teeth out, help them up, gather their teeth and take them to the dentist. While there I'll pray the heal quickly.

When we leave we can stop and have a beer...:flipoff2:
 
michael.gonzalez said:
Like muslims?
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I suppose so, I mean islam is not a religion of peace even though some of the followers claim it to be. So much like Islam many christians don't actually believe or know what the bible says.

Problem is, once you sign on your name to that line. You are tied to it.
If you are a muslim you believe in killing innocent people whether you know it or not.
 
Tiha said:
The biggest thing everyone here is missing,

You are focused on life here on earth. That is not at all important, nothing but a spec of dust in time. You need to be focused on eternity, the road the never ends.
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Question if you don’t mind. Sounds like you’re familiar with the Bible. Have you read the Bible of or read with an open mind the works of any other religion?
 
JR4X said:
Question if you don’t mind. Sounds like you’re familiar with the Bible. Have you read the Bible of or read with an open mind the works of any other religion?
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For me, I have read most of the bible, I think I have read it all, not sure. Read many pieces over and over while studying. I have also read books outside the bible that actually end up supporting the bible.

Have read portions of to study and compare for myself
Islam (Quran)
Buda (Tapitaka)
hindu (Vedas andUP something)
judaism (tanakh and talmud)
Morman (John Smith's book)

I grew up in a luthern church and was not happy. Had a great teaching back ground, but then when I got older I started asking what if. Turns out there is much more than the luthern church was teaching us. There is a lot of truth there, but they are stuck in tradition and pageantry and maybe a little self centered ness.

So I did make the choice on my own. I realized that not all other religions are wrong, but I did come to believe the bible to be correct.

In edit adding, this what while my mother was dying from cancer.
 
Tiha said:
As often happens christians get clumped together, like jews and blacks and hispanics. What is true of one or a few is certainly not true of all.

I am not a good person. I do my best to be better. I follow what the bible says. If that makes me a Christian, fine. Don't care. A label does not make me.

Men are evil, and just like Joe biden will lie, cheat and do anything they can to gain power all while saying "I am doing this for you" yeah whatever. There will always be wolves in sheeps clothing.


The biggest thing everyone here is missing,

You are focused on life here on earth. That is not at all important, nothing but a spec of dust in time. You need to be focused on eternity, the road the never ends. (or off road for this group)

If I have to suffer through this life in order to make to the next, gladly I will do so.

Again this all proves the point, God never said it would be easy, or that you wouldn't suffer, he only ever said you wouldn't be alone. the apostle paul who was chosen by Jesus, who walked with jesus, had performed miracles. Wrote some powerful books in the new testament. He had a disability. He prayed constantly for God to take it away, but God told him, no my grace is enough.

Though he lived a life with a disability he knew that the prize was eternity and never gave up.
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God never said anything, a person claims that god told him something.

IMO, we're born, we live, we die........................................ end of story. I'm perfectly okay with that.
 
Tiha said:
For me, I have read most of the bible, I think I have read it all, not sure. Read many pieces over and over while studying. I have also read books outside the bible that actually end up supporting the bible.

Have read portions of to study and compare for myself
Islam (Quran)
Buda (Tapitaka)
hindu (Vedas andUP something)
judaism (tanakh and talmud)
Morman (John Smith's book)

I grew up in a luthern church and was not happy. Had a great teaching back ground, but then when I got older I started asking what if. Turns out there is much more than the luthern church was teaching us. There is a lot of truth there, but they are stuck in tradition and pageantry and maybe a little self centered ness.

So I did make the choice on my own. I realized that not all other religions are wrong, but I did come to believe the bible to be correct.

In edit adding, this what while my mother was dying from cancer.
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That’s applaudable! Most people of any religion consider it sacrilege to even hear the words of another. I’ve read about the same as you with a few more to boot. Always amazing to me how we can read the same things and come away with such drastically different takeaways.
 
SanDiegoCJ said:
God never said anything, a person claims that god told him something.
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God said lots of stuff, it is often referred to the red letters in many king james version bibles.

And I respect that if that is what you choose to believe. But what if you are wrong? Then you end up in hell for eternity.

If I am wrong? oh well, then I guess nothing happens. If nothing else then for me the bible is a guideline for how I choose to live and nothing more.
 
JR4X said:
Always amazing to me how we can read the same things and come away with such drastically different takeaways.
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That is one unique thing about the bible. It says that it is so simple that even a child can understand it. So that tells me people over complicate it.

Maybe it just takes more common sense than some people have to understand it.

Many of the other books it is this way or you are screwed. No gray areas. The bible says only one thing is not forgivable. Blasphemy against the holy spirit. That is not an easy one to do. LOL.

Lots of wiggle room to learn and grow. become better and receive the blessings for doing so.
 
SanDiegoCJ said:
No, atheism relies on people being "good" because it's beneficial for them and society as a whole. Morality has nothing to do with religion. It's all about humans realizing over centuries what works in a large society and what doesn't. Most people want an orderly and safe society and from long experience have figured out behaviors that get that.
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This doesn’t hold water. Not with me. If it did communism would not take hold of entire countries and end in bloodshed and suffering, or fascism, or anything else mankind has let take hold of a people. As a whole, saying humans have realized what works for the good of society is a farce. But, keep thinking it. Humans will keep proving you wrong.
 
Tiha said:
That is one unique thing about the bible. It says that it is so simple that even a child can understand it. So that tells me people over complicate it.

Maybe it just takes more common sense than some people have to understand it.

Many of the other books it is this way or you are screwed. No gray areas. The bible says only one thing is not forgivable. Blasphemy against the holy spirit. That is not an easy one to do. LOL.

Lots of wiggle room to learn and grow. become better and receive the blessings for doing so.
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So if one has committed blasphemy already, is there any point in pursuing salvation?

Asking for myself.
 
There is only one true God

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Thumping said:
Just because we may not like the answer we get in prayer doesn't mean it wasn't answered. No is an answer.

Faith isn't something you pick up and down. We are however human an as such we all waver but we have faith that we will be forgiven.

Me...I do consider myself a Christian. Now to some they would say I'm not a good Christian. They maybe right. I'm not much of one to "turn the other cheek". I'd rather knock their damn teeth out, help them up, gather their teeth and take them to the dentist. While there I'll pray the heal quickly.

When we leave we can stop and have a beer...:flipoff2:
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I get it. I am much the same.
 
SanDiegoCJ said:
God never said anything, a person claims that god told him something.

IMO, we're born, we live, we die........................................ end of story. I'm perfectly okay with that.
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I don't think it matters if you're on board with the inevitable or not , just saying. :grinpimp:
 
michael.gonzalez said:
So if one has committed blasphemy already, is there any point in pursuing salvation?

Asking for myself.
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Yes, because blasphemy against the holy spirit does not mean condemnation to hell, it only says it will not be forgiven.

Matthew 12:31-32 and Mark 3:28-29. Jesus said, “I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come” (Mt. 12:31-32)

So it depends on how you choose to believe the bible. Some interrupt there being different levels of joy in heaven. Basically different levels of reward. In which case we have to remember that even the lowest slum in heaven is far better than anything we can imagine, or at least that is what is promised to us in the bible.

The other end, yes some will say you are screwed. Certain organized secs. But again that is their interpretation.

Again goes back to as simple common sense so a child can understand. If you did not know what you were doing was blasphemy then my understanding is it wouldn't be held against you, but now you know so I would be more cautious in the future.

Then again it doesn't exactly say what counts as blasphemy against the holy spirit. There is not like a check list or flow chart. You have to look inside yourself, but my belief is that if you were too far gone you would know. Clearly. In some form or manner, possibly even immediate death because many more times, in many more places in the bible it says that you cannot ever be gone too far, that there is never too much that cannot be un done that God would stop loving you.
 
Tiha said:
God said lots of stuff, it is often referred to the red letters in many king james version bibles.

And I respect that if that is what you choose to believe. But what if you are wrong? Then you end up in hell for eternity.

If I am wrong? oh well, then I guess nothing happens. If nothing else then for me the bible is a guideline for how I choose to live and nothing more.
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So, you've heard this god ? I sure a fuck haven't. I've seen zero proof that this "god" exists.
 
Tiha said:
Yes, because blasphemy against the holy spirit does not mean condemnation to hell, it only says it will not be forgiven.

Matthew 12:31-32 and Mark 3:28-29. Jesus said, “I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come” (Mt. 12:31-32)

So it depends on how you choose to believe the bible. Some interrupt there being different levels of joy in heaven. Basically different levels of reward. In which case we have to remember that even the lowest slum in heaven is far better than anything we can imagine, or at least that is what is promised to us in the bible.

The other end, yes some will say you are screwed. Certain organized secs. But again that is their interpretation.

Again goes back to as simple common sense so a child can understand. If you did not know what you were doing was blasphemy then my understanding is it wouldn't be held against you, but now you know so I would be more cautious in the future.

Then again it doesn't exactly say what counts as blasphemy against the holy spirit. There is not like a check list or flow chart. You have to look inside yourself, but my belief is that if you were too far gone you would know. Clearly. In some form or manner, possibly even immediate death because many more times, in many more places in the bible it says that you cannot ever be gone too far, that there is never too much that cannot be un done that God would stop loving you.
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Oh, I definitely INTENTIONALLY blasphemize.

Am I doomed to never be forgiven?
 
michael.gonzalez said:
Oh, I definitely INTENTIONALLY blasphemize.

Am I doomed to never be forgiven?
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the key to forgiveness is repentance. If you truly repent, then you can ask forgiveness, get it and move on.

If you continue your blasphemous behavior, that is an indication that you did not truly repent. Not good.

This is christian doctrine and may be different in other belief systems.
 
gladman said:
the key to forgiveness is repentance. If you truly repent, then you can ask forgiveness, get it and move on.

If you continue your blasphemous behavior, that is an indication that you did not truly repent. Not good.

This is christian doctrine and may be different in other belief systems.
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But what about "blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven."?
 
SanDiegoCJ said:
So, you've heard this god ? I sure a fuck haven't. I've seen zero proof that this "god" exists.
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Depends on your view point. Have I heard this God? Well the holy spirit is supposed to live within us, by some viewed as being our conscience, if that is the case then yes I have. As God is a trinity, God, Jesus and the Holy spirit.

If he is not our conscience then no I have not.

Either way our society would never accept anyone walking around saying they hear the voice of God, so no sane person would do that.
 
Tiha said:
God said lots of stuff, it is often referred to the red letters in many king james version bibles.

And I respect that if that is what you choose to believe. But what if you are wrong? Then you end up in hell for eternity.

If I am wrong? oh well, then I guess nothing happens. If nothing else then for me the bible is a guideline for how I choose to live and nothing more.
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Hedging your bet is a mistake. Ask your pastor. He will smile when you repeat this post, but if you tell him you are serious, he'll tell you that faith isn't based in a sought reward. You cannot get to heaven because your faith is in the 'payoff' of heaven. God sees through that and will cast you out. Likewise, people who pretend faith, in christian doctrine, God sniffs them right out and, yep, back to the fire.

If you lack faith, you are, long term, screwed. (if you believe in the afterlife and God's grace.) For those who have never had their faith wander or gone through a period of faithlessness, you are lucky and blessed indeed. I have several minister/priest friends who ABSOLUTELY have told me that their faith wavers and is often difficult to maintain. They have confided this in me in the context of saying 'it is normal to have periods of no faith, it even happens to me'.
 
Tiha said:
You missed some stuff, I am not hedging any bets, the person I was responding to is the one risking his eternity.
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and you entertained that if you were wrong (faithful people don't think they are wrong) nothing lost... but that he should believe because 'maybe'....

Your pastor will tell you that is not solid ground. No offense intended, just don't want you to get hosed at the end.
 
Tiha said:
And that is where faith comes in.

I mean really, nobodies mind is getting changed here. I was just trying to answer why I believe what I believe.
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well, you never know... there are people who read discussions, never post, but are sent in a direction....
 
gladman said:
and you entertained that if you were wrong (faithful people don't think they are wrong) nothing lost... but that he should believe because 'maybe'....

Your pastor will tell you that is not solid ground. No offense intended, just don't want you to get hosed at the end.
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Lmao, don't make this about me. I know where I stand.

One of these days we all will stand in judgment for
Every single word that we have spoken
Stand before the Lord
Give a reason for everything we've done
And what I've done is Trust in Jesus

I have no fear, I am ready to leave this shithole.
 
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