Tuning EFI

[Ummduh]

I did find this:

 

[mjlogan88]

None of that means much to me, I have basic generic MS2. I am, however, gaining curiosity about this stinger system you have. I love the 80-96 fords, the only thing that keeps me away from them is the miserable gas engine/smog/factory pcm limitations. I’ve owned a bunch of idi trucks but they are over priced these days. But I may be moving away from emissions testing country

 

[Ummduh]

None of that means much to me, I have basic generic MS2. I am, however, gaining curiosity about this stinger system you have. I love the 80-96 fords, the only thing that keeps me away from them is the miserable gas engine/smog/factory pcm limitations. I’ve owned a bunch of idi trucks but they are over priced these days. But I may be moving away from emissions testing country

It's just a custom boarded ms2 or ms3 that they manufacture to fit into the stock eec-iv case and uses the stock 60 pin connector. I think there's 3 versions, pimpX which is batch fire ms2 I think, pimpXS which is sequential ms3x? And pimpxshift which is ms3x + a microsquirt module to run a auto trans.

But yea. The stock computers suck, and they starting to fail due to age and getting hard to find and/or repair.

 

[reptillikus]

It's just a custom boarded ms2 or ms3 that they manufacture to fit into the stock eec-iv case and uses the stock 60 pin connector. I think there's 3 versions, pimpX which is batch fire ms2 I think, pimpXS which is sequential ms3x? And pimpxshift which is ms3x + a microsquirt module to run a auto trans.

But yea. The stock computers suck, and they starting to fail due to age and getting hard to find and/or repair.

The PimpX, PimpXS and PimpXShift are all MS3. The older PiMP is MS2.

None of that means much to me, I have basic generic MS2. I am, however, gaining curiosity about this stinger system you have. I love the 80-96 fords, the only thing that keeps me away from them is the miserable gas engine/smog/factory pcm limitations. I’ve owned a bunch of idi trucks but they are over priced these days. But I may be moving away from emissions testing country

Nice thing about it, is not having to worry about an old ECU failing. Some of the piggyback chips out there (like Moates' Quarterhorse) have an on-board battery which IMO kinda sucks as inevitably it will fail. But this is a full-on replacement ECU so you dont have any of those worries:

Ive been following along with you guys, but havent been able to get outside to mess with mine. Was going to today but my 4y/o is home. As long as he goes to school tomorrow Im gonna dig into mine, so ill get some actual stuff in here tomorrow.

 

[reptillikus]

OK, I have no idea how to get the VE table to show up with the log like you have.

Ok figured it out. Click on those arrows and drag them over to the left, as far as you want. Itll expose two buttons, open and save. click open, and open the same log. Bam! VE & AFR tables pop right up.

Im looking at my logs right now, ill post up some screenshots later i think. Still trying to digest everything. Im definitely lean around 2800-3k rpm. Didnt rev it much higher than that during my log today apparently.

 

[rattle_snake]

Good tech in this tread. I avoided an efi based 460 engine as tuning support is basically zero and have to do it yourself (and heads suck, no manifold choices). Can get a ton of time into tuning. did that on a 347 EEC-IV, tweecer, not again with self learning stuff now cheap and easy. I have spent extremely little time farting around with Holley sniper and although not perfect like OEM its good enough to just bolt on and go. still happy a year later, 2000 miles. I used for cam break in out of box.
I would think OEM 'puter is more robust than aftermarket but they are all old now.
But anyhow, thanks for sharing the info here.

 

[reptillikus]

Im kicking myself right now.
Drove mine to work last night, and ran auto tune while i was cruising down the highway. Never thought to log it
Ok, so heres my VE table before:



and here it is after auto tune:


since i was cruising down the highway i really only got it to adjust in the midrange there. So my plan is to kind of smooth out those numbers as you radiate away from what changed. Sound correct?

Took a buddy for a cruise, and after laying rubber around the corner from his house, i need to rebuild the rear driveshaft so i wont be able to drive it again for about a week.

I need to figure out my idle too. Warm idle is like 925rpm, id like to bring it down a bit.

 

[reptillikus]

I would think OEM 'puter is more robust than aftermarket but they are all old now.

This has always been a concern of mine. I had the PCM in my 96 F250 PSD fail, and it caused all sorts of problems until i figured out it was the computer. That was years ago when it was easy to get a reman; now its a lot harder. I have 7 or 8 ECM/PCMs in my garage because i wouldnt ever throw them away when i parted out a truck. So i actually have 2 good 88 460 ECMs, but now that i have the Stinger i figure a brand new board will probably last the lifetime of the vehicle. Or atleast, until gas is banned or im too old to care anymore

 

[mjlogan88]

I probably wouldn't mess with it too much until you get a couple logs down. You can kind of interpolate what autotune is trying to do.

I would add fuel in the lean area hole circled in red. You can see it really wanted a lot more fuel around 32-3500rpm at 60kpa or so.

The area circled in blue might be a spot that autotune may try to pull fuel. This is one of the cases that I would be hesitant to let it do that- low rpm heavy load is the danger zone. If you are comfortable with the target AFR and the thing is like 10.0 then yeah obviously pull fuel.

 

[Bebop]

since i was cruising down the highway i really only got it to adjust in the midrange there. So my plan is to kind of smooth out those numbers as you radiate away from what changed. Sound correct?

The idea is there, but make sure to smooth all the graph, not just this little section. If you have a 3D view it's often very helpful to see what you're going for

This you try to avoid :

This is much better

Also, if you see that on average the auto tune is pulling 5% everywhere, just pull 5% off of the whole table between 1500 to say 4500 rpm and see what it does. Easier to make big changes at first and then focus on the details.

I need to figure out my idle too. Warm idle is like 925rpm, id like to bring it down a bit.

What is your average IAC position at idle ?

 

[mjlogan88]

I need to figure out my idle too. Warm idle is like 925rpm, id like to bring it down a bit.

Are you running open or closed loop idle control?

If closed loop try this: Disable the iac, turn the throttle stop to bring it just below your target idle. Then command what you want out of your iac. Remember timing advance also has an effect on idle speed.

 

[reptillikus]

OK, good advice.

I have to go back and check the IAC position and if its closed or open, im not sure what the default is
Ill check it tomorrow and report back; i work night shift so its about time for me to get some sleep!

 

[Ummduh]

Im kicking myself right now.
Drove mine to work last night, and ran auto tune while i was cruising down the highway. Never thought to log it
Ok, so heres my VE table before:



and here it is after auto tune:


since i was cruising down the highway i really only got it to adjust in the midrange there. So my plan is to kind of smooth out those numbers as you radiate away from what changed. Sound correct?

Took a buddy for a cruise, and after laying rubber around the corner from his house, i need to rebuild the rear driveshaft so i wont be able to drive it again for about a week.

I need to figure out my idle too. Warm idle is like 925rpm, id like to bring it down a bit.

Are you aware of how to rebin your tables? It doesn't sound like you're planning a turbo so no need for over 100kPa.

All you have to do it click that little double arrow in the bottom left and put in your values. It rescale it automatically and interpolate the values.

 

[reptillikus]

Oooh, ok, didnt know that. Yeah no forced induction on this thing so ill definitely readjust that table. Never done this before, no idea what im doing



So i missed this comment earlier:

I probably wouldn't mess with it too much until you get a couple logs down. You can kind of interpolate what autotune is trying to do.

I would add fuel in the lean area hole circled in red. You can see it really wanted a lot more fuel around 32-3500rpm at 60kpa or so.

The area circled in blue might be a spot that autotune may try to pull fuel. This is one of the cases that I would be hesitant to let it do that- low rpm heavy load is the danger zone. If you are comfortable with the target AFR and the thing is like 10.0 then yeah obviously pull fuel.

Id say id double check the log, but...no log So that was dumb.

I dont think i ever got up to 3800 to let autotune do its thing, that wouldve been 85mph which is a bit sketchy on 15 year old iroks So i never got up into that rpm band you have circled in red so it never tuned it. That area you circled in blue i dont actually think was rich but again no log so im not totally sure. So no log was a big mistake, but i still think this was worth it, because i didnt know where to start and now i do.

 

[Ummduh]

Oooh, ok, didnt know that. Yeah no forced induction on this thing so ill definitely readjust that table. Never done this before, no idea what im doing



So i missed this comment earlier:

Id say id double check the log, but...no log So that was dumb.

I dont think i ever got up to 3800 to let autotune do its thing, that wouldve been 85mph which is a bit sketchy on 15 year old iroks So i never got up into that rpm band you have circled in red so it never tuned it. That area you circled in blue i dont actually think was rich but again no log so im not totally sure. So no log was a big mistake, but i still think this was worth it, because i didnt know where to start and now i do.

Just make sure you hit the double arrow first, it'll open a set of white boxes to put your new values into on both axis.

Maybe make sure you save your current tune again before you change it just in case. I did the afr and VE tables but somehow didn't hit the double arrows for the timing table.. Oops.

 

[mjlogan88]

I dont think i ever got up to 3800 to let autotune do its thing, that wouldve been 85mph which is a bit sketchy on 15 year old iroks So i never got up into that rpm band you have circled in red so it never tuned it. That area you circled in blue i dont actually think was rich but again no log so im not totally sure. So no log was a big mistake, but i still think this was worth it, because i didnt know where to start and now i do.

You probably got it up to between 3200 and 3500, maybe in 1st or 2nd gear. Blue/red cells are what autotune changed and probably the limit of where you ran it. I'm just saying if you want to you can go ahead and take care of that section circled in red ahead of time. At 3200-3500 autotune was trying to add fuel, I'd imagine that trend would continue as rpm's increase.

I'd rather be on the rich side and have to pull fuel than the other way around. Plus it'll save you an iteration in your drive/log/tune/drive future

Not a mistake at all, any data is good if you're learning something from it

 

[reptillikus]

Yeah I'm gonna mess with both of those zones, and try to blend it so it's smoother all around both areas.

Maybe make sure you save your current tune again before you change it just in case.

I've been using the default file naming system, which basically builds a timestamp for the file name. So I saved it before I autotuned, and I was planning on saving it again before and after I mess with the VE table, just in case I make it worse
I'll tinker with it after work today and post up a pic of what I changed it to. I'm going to check into the IAC valve as well. Won't have the driveshaft back for about a week so can't drive it, but I'd like to get all this done beforehand so I can just slap it in and go cruise.

 

[Ummduh]

2022-01-30_06.16.07.mlg

drive.google.com

log from my drive in. accel enrichment off, o2 authority off, some minor untuned changes to the ve table prior to the drive.

Edit: most of it is highway with the cruise on, right at the end is a couple blocks of city driving

Edit2: I guess ego Auth was still on at 1%. I just changed it again, I'll see what the drive home does. I'm playing with the log and the tune at work, got called in, hopefully a slow shift. 12 hours though.

 

[Ummduh]

Id say id double check the log, but...no log So that was dumb.

Did you put a SD card in? If so you can set it to always log, and it'll save it to the SD card anytime it's powered on.

 

[reptillikus]

I actually bought one to do this, sitting on the desk next to me. Itll be going in next time i mess with the tune. No driveshaft currently so not much of a rush.

 

[Ummduh]

dutycycle.mlg

drive.google.com

Saw something odd going on, found it in the log. I'm hitting 95%+ duty cycle. I shouldn't be stresses out these injectors on a stock engine. I have it posted on Stinger's forum as well, I kinda think it's the 4 squirts per cycle batch fire causing it?

 

[[486]]

injector dead time plays into it somewhat
you really should flow test your injectors, mainly so you have an accurate dead time to work with rather than just relying on what you've been told to use

 

[reptillikus]

Bump!

Ok, finally got mine back on the road after building some body armor. What the hell do i need to do to get it to idle lower? Cold idle is like 1100, warm idle is 930; id rather it idle at more like 650-700 like a stock 460.

 

[mjlogan88]

Bump!

Ok, finally got mine back on the road after building some body armor. What the hell do i need to do to get it to idle lower? Cold idle is like 1100, warm idle is 930; id rather it idle at more like 650-700 like a stock 460.

Disconnect/disable IAC and set the idle using the screw stop on the throttle body. If you can't get it low enough you have a vacuum leak or something else going on.

If you are using closed loop idle control, set the idle a little low with the screw and then set your target idle so that the IAC has to do a little work in order to maintain idle.

Remember timing also has an effect on idle speed

 

[reptillikus]

I think i found it.

I did set the butterfly and then calibrated the TPS, probably back in january which was probably the last time i drove it.

Theres an option under Startup/Idle called Closed-Loop Idle Target Curve, and that was set by Stinger for a cold idle closer to 1400RPM, and to drop to 950RPM by 140º. So i adjusted that table, and now it idles like it should.

Edit: in case its not obvious, i have no idea what im doing First time tuning EFI so every menu is new to me.

 

[Ummduh]

I think i found it.

I did set the butterfly and then calibrated the TPS, probably back in january which was probably the last time i drove it.

Theres an option under Startup/Idle called Closed-Loop Idle Target Curve, and that was set by Stinger for a cold idle closer to 1400RPM, and to drop to 950RPM by 140º. So i adjusted that table, and now it idles like it should.

I also shortened up the taper curve so it'd come down faster too. I think it was at 15 seconds and I took it down to 6 or 7.

 

[reptillikus]

Ok, i think i see what you mean- under Idle Control, PWM Idle Crank-to-Run Taper Time(s) is set to 15 seconds by default. Ill have to experiment with that as well.

 

[Ummduh]

AE is kicking my ass btw. Ae/tip-in whatever. I forget what MS calls it. It hasn't been fun to tune for me.

I also need to change my transmission load from MAP to tps. MAP has too narrow of a window since I'm pretty much always > (>?<? I don't know!) than 60kPa.

 

[Ummduh]

I actually bought one to do this, sitting on the desk next to me. Itll be going in next time i mess with the tune. No driveshaft currently so not much of a rush.

I haven't looked into this issue yet, but the always log to SD card is kinda dumb and I'm not sure it's me or what. The ecu doesn't retain date/time so every log has the same date and time. I can go into the log settings and set the time and date but it doesn't survive a key-off.

 

[reptillikus]

I never put the SD card in mine
I didnt drive it for about a month while building rock sliders and knew i needed to fix the tune, so i just grabbed the laptop yesterday and went outside.


Was just thinking; the Stinger doesnt have an on-board battery, so in order to remember the date & time it would have to have power all the time. In stock form the ECU does for memory for codes, but im not sure if Stinger set theres up that way or if youve changed your harness (with a killswitch, for example).

I wont get back out to mess with mine til Tuesday at the earliest; ill have to pop my SD card in then, just to see if i have the same result.