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TTB Tech Tips?

TTMotorsports said:
Adjusting Toe on beam trucks isn't that hard really. If they are toe'd in they will lift front end when driving forward, or Toe'd out will pull front end down, or opposite in reverse. I beam front ends I have always done where it raises up a slight bit when forward and sucks down a tiny bit when in reverse. Then after confirming it usually is a tiny bit toe'd in which I prefer
Click to expand...
That’s how I do it. But the light springs are load sensitive and I have to find middle ground on the adjustment between just me in the car and the whole family in the car. It just takes a few more adjustments than a straight axle. It sure rides better though.
 
fordpickupman said:
C7FE74C9-2A1A-4383-9937-4D823077AFE9.jpeg
Click to expand...
What coil are you using there and what's your tare weight on the front axle? (I'm assuming stock length beams)

Why not mount the shock lower on the radius arm?
 
It’s a Deaver coil from JBG for a late ‘70s Bronco. 330#/in.
stock length beams because I wanted it narrow.
I made the shock hoop as tall as I could and didn’t end up needing that long of shock, so I actually moved the mount up. If I was doing it again I’d use a spring for a TTB bronco, then I could dump the sway bar.
I don’t recall the front tare weight. 2500-3000#?
 
There's a lot of good info in here, but I don't completely agree with all of it, and it seems a lot of people have lost sight of the "budget" caveat.

Let me start by saying that the BIGGEST issue with the factory TTB setup is the steering geometry which is only exacerbated with lifts, softer springs, and increased travel. Web wheelers all want to blame the camber change in a TTB setup for funky tire wear and handling, but it is really the steering geometry, which is not easy to fix and address. The factory steering linkage causes massive and unequal toe changes, so even if you have a perfect alignment at static ride height, as soon as the suspension moves at all, things immediately go out of whack. This causes the strange jacking behavior and bad tire wear that's commonly associated with TTB. To make matters worse, most drop pitman arms supplied with lift kits do not actually drop the draglink low enough to compensate for a 4" or greater lift. Skyjacker does make a longer drop pitman arm (FA600), but it is stupid expensive and still doesn't fix the shitty factory Y-link steering.

There are several solutions to the steering issue with varying levels of complexity and effectiveness. In rough order of complexity: Modified Y-Link (AKA "Stone Crusher" style), K-Link ("Superunner" style), and Cross-Over/Swing set. The modified Y-link and K-link style steering systems are good enough for the average trail wheeler who wants to be able to run soft springs, while the swing set/cross over setups are what most desert guys want to run since they result in the minimum amount of toe change and bumpsteer. The only commercially available corrective steering linkage I am aware of is the Superlift Superunner kit, but it still needs to be modified in many cases to make it work as it should with 4" or higher lifts. Here's a pretty good article 4x4junkie wrote up on the Ranger Station forever ago.

Now for the "Cut and Turn" the pivot vs. modifying the lower ball joint location/"cut and turn" the "C" vs. drop bracket debate, that isn't really cut and dry. There are tradeoffs with all three options. Cutting and turning the pivot on the beam will allow you to keep stock pivot points on the frame and avoid extra leverage creating stress, and give you marginally better ground clearance. This will also give your suspension a higher geometric roll center and make the beams much more prone to jacking in off-camber and hard cornering situations which will make your rig less stable. The higher effective beam angle will also transfer more vertical force into the frame when the suspension compresses. The jacking and force transfer is much like suspension links at steep angles do with a solid axle. Cutting and turning the "C" or relocating the lower ball joint has all the same disadvantages as cutting and turning the pivots, but results in significantly more ground clearance. However, this puts all of the U-joints at an angle at static ride height and the wheels pointed straight which can limit your maximum steering angle and suspension droop due to joint bind. The biggest issues with drop brackets are that you won't gain any ground clearance, and most aftermarket lift kit companies have weak drop bracket designs that won't hold up under heavy trail use. As others have mentioned, Skyjacker is the exception and makes good quality drop brackets, and I personally haven't experienced or heard of issues from people using Skyjacker drop brackets. The big advantage of drop brackets are that they keep the effective angle of the beam much more level which results in minimized jacking and force transfer through the frame during compression. My personal opinion is that if you are going to raise the ride heigh more than an inch or two, drop brackets are the best option for most general trail rigs due to the ease of install/fabrication and the ride quality and stability they provide by keeping the beams at a flatter angle.

Here is my personal setup which has served me pretty well (Dana 35 in a BII, but the same things can be applied to your F150):
IMG_4690.jpg

IMG_5055.JPG


I am running Skyjacker drop brackets, extended radius arms, and their standard drop pitman arm (FA400), but you can easily fabricate long arms out of the stock radius arms which it sounds like was already done on your F150. I am running a 1.5" DOM steering setup with Chevy "1 ton" TREs from Ruffstuff in a modified Y-link configuration (steering pivot moved to the passenger side to line up with the driver beam pivot point) which does a good job of keeping the toe change in check allowing me to run soft springs, but it does have a bit of bumpsteer going down the road. I am running Rubicon Express 4.5" XJ springs (about a 220 Lb/in spring rate by my calculations) and Bilstein 5100 Bronco/f150 TTB application shocks with the stock coil buckets and shock mounts. I did make some custom axle-side coil mounts that utilize Jeep coil isolators. I installed Daystar poly beam pivot bushings and I run pretty basic poly bumpstops. I am running Spicer 5-760X U-joints with full-circle retaining rings and stock axle shafts. I had to open up the window for the axle shaft substantially on the passenger side beam to keep the shaft from making contact with the beam throughout travel. I have not reinforced the beams themselves at all. I run without a swaybar and it is a little loose on the street, but totally manageable in my opinion. I am pulling right around 13" of wheel travel, and could have another inch pretty easily if I dropped down in tire size since I have my compression travel limited because I couldn't cut any more without doing a lot more work moving things around. I am pretty much limited on droop because the slip yoke on the center joint is out of travel. If I want more travel at this point, I need more width and/or custom coil buckets and shock mounts so I can run longer springs and shocks. However, 13-14" of travel at only 73.5" outside tire to outside tire is pretty good. I am pretty happy with my setup, it crawls pretty well and handles high speed running well for just having basic Bilstein 5100s. I think it is pretty good bang for the buck, and in order to make much of an improvement in any aspect is going to cost a whole lot more money.

Most TTB application lift springs are way too stiff and short for good offroad performance since they are trying to cover up the deficiencies in the stock steering geometry that are magnified with soft springs and lots of travel. For a full size, I imagine a spring in the 300-350Lb/in range would probably work pretty well. Most TTB application lift springs are around 500Lbs/in. Definitely modify your shafts for full circle retaining rings and run Spicer 5-760X joints. If you plan on beating on it hard, Jeff's Bronco Graveyard has a pretty affordable 4340 replacement axle shaft kit with a lifetime warranty.
 
Last edited:
I’m running 6” of lift w/o drop brackets. Cut n turn only. Stock steering. It has a slight bump steer after much toe tuning. 15° caster.
 
'84 Bronco II said:
:emb:There's a lot of good info in here, but I don't completely agree with all of it, and it seems a lot of people have lost sight of the "budget" caveat.

Let me start by saying that the BIGGEST issue with the factory TTB setup is the steering geometry which is only exacerbated with lifts, softer springs, and increased travel. Web wheelers all want to blame the camber change in a TTB setup for funky tire wear and handling, but it is really the steering geometry, which is not easy to fix and address. The factory steering linkage causes massive and unequal toe changes, so even if you have a perfect alignment at static ride height, as soon as the suspension moves at all, things immediately go out of whack. This causes the strange jacking behavior and bad tire wear that's commonly associated with TTB. To make matters worse, most drop pitman arms supplied with lift kits do not actually drop the draglink low enough to compensate for a 4" or greater lift. Skyjacker does make a longer drop pitman arm (FA600), but it is stupid expensive and still doesn't fix the shitty factory Y-link steering.

There are several solutions to the steering issue with varying levels of complexity and effectiveness. In rough order of complexity: Modified Y-Link (AKA "Stone Crusher" style), K-Link ("Superunner" style), and Cross-Over/Swing set. The modified Y-link and K-link style steering systems are good enough for the average trail wheeler who wants to be able to run soft springs, while the swing set/cross over setups are what most desert guys want to run since they result in the minimum amount of toe change and bumpsteer. The only commercially available corrective steering linkage I am aware of is the Superlift Superunner kit, but it still needs to be modified in many cases to make it work as it should with 4" or higher lifts. Here's a pretty good article 4x4junkie wrote up on the Ranger Station forever ago.

Now for the "Cut and Turn" the pivot vs. modifying the lower ball joint location/"cut and turn" the "C" vs. drop bracket debate, that isn't really cut and dry. There are tradeoffs with all three options. Cutting and turning the pivot on the beam will allow you to keep stock pivot points on the frame and avoid extra leverage creating stress, and give you marginally better ground clearance. This will also give your suspension a higher geometric roll center and make the beams much more prone to jacking in off-camber and hard cornering situations which will make your rig less stable. The higher effective beam angle will also transfer more vertical force into the frame when the suspension compresses. The jacking and force transfer is much like suspension links at steep angles do with a solid axle. Cutting and turning the "C" or relocating the lower ball joint has all the same disadvantages as cutting and turning the pivots, but results in significantly more ground clearance. However, this puts all of the U-joints at an angle at static ride height and the wheels pointed straight which can limit your maximum steering angle and suspension droop due to joint bind. The biggest issues with drop brackets are that you won't gain any ground clearance, and most aftermarket lift kit companies have weak drop bracket designs that won't hold up under heavy trail use. As others have mentioned, Skyjacker is the exception and makes good quality drop brackets, and I personally haven't experienced or heard of issues from people using Skyjacker drop brackets. The big advantage of drop brackets are that they keep the effective angle of the beam much more level which results in minimized jacking and force transfer through the frame during compression. My personal opinion is that if you are going to raise the ride heigh more than an inch or two, drop brackets are the best option for most general trail rigs due to the ease of install/fabrication and the ride quality and stability they provide by keeping the beams at a flatter angle.
Click to expand...

I think my plan for now is to swap the steering to the top of the knuckles. I'm only planning on 1-2" taller than stock and trim if I need to. Since this truck is going to be more dual duty and really a stop gap till my F250 is done, I dont want it to spiral into another full on build.

'84 Bronco II said:
I am running Skyjacker drop brackets, extended radius arms, and their standard drop pitman arm (FA400), but you can easily fabricate long arms out of the stock radius arms which it sounds like was already done on your F150. I am running a 1.5" DOM steering setup with Chevy "1 ton" TREs from Ruffstuff in a modified Y-link configuration (steering pivot moved to the passenger side to line up with the driver beam pivot point) which does a good job of keeping the toe change in check allowing me to run soft springs, but it does have a bit of bumpsteer going down the road. I am running Rubicon Express 4.5" XJ springs (about a 220 Lb/in spring rate by my calculations) and Bilstein 5100 Bronco/f150 TTB application shocks with the stock coil buckets and shock mounts. I did make some custom axle-side coil mounts that utilize Jeep coil isolators. I installed Daystar poly beam pivot bushings and I run pretty basic poly bumpstops. I am running Spicer 5-760X U-joints with full-circle retaining rings and stock axle shafts. I had to open up the window for the axle shaft substantially on the passenger side beam to keep the shaft from making contact with the beam throughout travel. I have not reinforced the beams themselves at all. I run without a swaybar and it is a little loose on the street, but totally manageable in my opinion. I am pulling right around 13" of wheel travel, and could have another inch pretty easily if I dropped down in tire size since I have my compression travel limited because I couldn't cut any more without doing a lot more work moving things around. I am pretty much limited on droop because the slip yoke on the center joint is out of travel. If I want more travel at this point, I need more width and/or custom coil buckets and shock mounts so I can run longer springs and shocks. However, 13-14" of travel at only 73.5" outside tire to outside tire is pretty good. I am pretty happy with my setup, it crawls pretty well and handles high speed running well for just having basic Bilstein 5100s. I think it is pretty good bang for the buck, and in order to make much of an improvement in any aspect is going to cost a whole lot more money.

Most TTB application lift springs are way too stiff and short for good offroad performance since they are trying to cover up the deficiencies in the stock steering geometry that are magnified with soft springs and lots of travel. For a full size, I imagine a spring in the 300-350Lb/in range would probably work pretty well. Most TTB application lift springs are around 500Lbs/in. Definitely modify you shafts for full circle retaining rings and run Spicer 5-760X joints. If you plan on beating on it hard, Jeff's Bronco Graveyard has a pretty affordable 4340 replacement axle shaft kit with a lifetime warranty.
Click to expand...

I will grind the stock shafts for the full circle clips, that is definitely worth the small amount of effort. As far as the coils Im going to try a set of Moog 824s, from what I can tell they are a bit taller then the factory springs and ~370 lbs/in. That shaft kit is really good to keep in my back pocket as that is very reasonable.
 
Want to revisit this a bit. I bought a set of Moog 824 springs. They should give me 2" of lift and still be able to set camber on the front end without drop brackets or balljoint mods. I may do the lower balljoints down the road, but right now I dont think its necessary.

I have to pull the beams to do the D50 slip yoke and poly pivot bushings.Since they will be out, what is considered the minimum plating/trussing that should be done on these? I have seen some driverside beams bend right next to the housing. I assume some plate on the bottom of the driveside beam for a skid is a no brainer as well.

With this minimal lift and almost factory geometry still, what if any steering mods are worth pursuing? Would a mild drop pitman arm be sufficient? TRE flipped to over the knuckles?
 
I have a 2.5" lift on my DD, which is a 96 bronco. Im running a F250 pitman arm, with the TREs flipped to the top of the knuckle, and the steering angles are great:
05.png

i tried running just the F250 pitman arm but it wasnt enough drop, and i had camber in turns so the tires wore funny despite having a good alignment. The tie-rod flip resolved that.

I didnt do any trussing at all because its my DD, not a wheeler. It does have a D50 chunk installed along with the bigger center shafts because it was a cheap way to get into 4.10s. Minor trimming on the beam to clear the bigger shafts, nothing major there.
 
There are tons of old thread about beam plating on the old GoFastBroncos forum.

Front side of the pivot end, all four sides of the C end and tube up front is generally what everyone did. This is what all the commercially available beams do because it's where all the bang for your buck is.

The tube on the front of the driver's beam is non-optional because if you plate the beam and don't do that your failure mode will be folding the beam over where the back face ends to leave space for the housing.

Additional reinforcement around the axle shaft "windows" in the beams (particularly the pass beam) and pivot ends are the optional bit.

For what you're doing 1/8 would probably suffice and you live in the land of cheap/free residential oil tanks which tend to be 12ga (1/8ish)...

Dana-44-Extended-Cut-Turned-TTB-long-travel-3.jpg
 
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If you know anyone with a plasma table...

www.diyoffroad.com

Stock Length TTB Bronco Beam Truss/Gusset/Overlay Plates from JEHC - PTF

These cut files are for STOCK width D44 TTB beams from the Bronco, designed to be Plasma Table friendly these can be cut from a mixture of 1/8" and 3/16" material. Some slight bending is required but it's easy to do so on the stock beams to make the fitment perfect.***This product is a Digital...
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I'm in the process of pulling the beams out from under the truck, so perfect time to revisit this. Im going to have the beams out and broken down for new balljoints and bushings. Ive been waffling back and forth over the lower balljoint mod. Is there a rule of thumb for how far to move it? From what Ive seen a few people say 3/8" to 1". with the low lift planned on mine I can't see 1" being required. My plan is still to run the 824 springs for now with the option to swap to maybe a 4" spring later on down the road.
 
I have done the Cut and Turn lower BJ mod on a few broncos now. I usually do 5/8" long beam and 3/4" on short beam BUT you could do 3/4" on BOTH beams and use aligment cams to dial in the camber.
 
yea it seems like it doesnt matter a whole bunch as long as Im not on the extreme, it seems easy to dial in with adjusters as needed. Would also be nice to be able to use the cheap camber bushings instead of maxing out the more expensive adjustable ones.
 
Toreadorranger said:
yea it seems like it doesnt matter a whole bunch as long as Im not on the extreme, it seems easy to dial in with adjusters as needed. Would also be nice to be able to use the cheap camber bushings instead of maxing out the more expensive adjustable ones.
Click to expand...
the upside to the double adjustables is getting some caster back into things, sometimes its not possiible with the simple ones

if you are doing a c&t push the lower ear forward a little to get some extra caster into things
 
TTMotorsports said:
I have done the Cut and Turn lower BJ mod on a few broncos now. I usually do 5/8" long beam and 3/4" on short beam BUT you could do 3/4" on BOTH beams and use aligment cams to dial in the camber.
Click to expand...
Are you cutting the entire end of the beam off and keeping the ball joints inline or just moving the lower out and leaving the top alone?
 
Yeah essentially from my experience on TTB front ends. If you need say 1deg of adjustment I get 1.5 or 2 deg of adjustment and dial in the camber with as much Caster as possible. Works good that way. Also adding caster to the radius arm helps with pinion angle as well. I have done super budget and cut/plated the stock radius arms to add caster. I shoot for 5-7deg of caster, but again i'm dealing with lifted Prerunner trucks were most caster the better.
 
665.0coupe said:
Are you cutting the entire end of the beam off and keeping the ball joints inline or just moving the lower out and leaving the top alone?
Click to expand...
I believe he did both, but that was because he widened the beams. The balljoint was for camber correction though.
 
Looking for help with spindle studs for my F150 project.

44630-1 7/16-20 spindle stud. Apparently they are discontinued. Id rather not resort to trimming down a set of D60 studs If I can help it. Do these exist under a different part number?

Northern Drivetrain, LLC: Spicer 44630-1

Spicer 44630-1, OBSOLETE per manufacturer, Normally drop ships the same, or next business day. BOLT, Possible to use SPI-37759-2 if they are cut down to 1.343 under the head.
www.northerndrivetrain.com
 
They are longer then the factory studs. I dont know how long I can get away with before I have to trim. I'll have to see if I can mock up one knuckle and see.
 
I would put a 7/16 bolt in from outside and mark it to see exactly low long it needs to be. The solid axle Ford's studs can be 1/2" longer than the nut.
 
www.summitracing.com

Yukon Gear & Axle YSPSTUD-009 Yukon Gear & Axle Wheel Studs | Summit Racing

Free Shipping - Yukon Gear & Axle Wheel Studs with qualifying orders of $109. Shop Wheel Studs at Summit Racing.
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These might fit the bill, with a flat cut onto the end to clear the knuckle. They are only .15 longer then the factory studs. I'm less than pleased with the pricing @ $6 a stud though.

Wheel Stud Thread Size: 7/16 in.-20

Knurl Diameter (in.): 0.468 in.

Underhead Length (in.): 1.500 in.
 
Toreadorranger said:
www.summitracing.com

Yukon Gear & Axle YSPSTUD-009 Yukon Gear & Axle Wheel Studs | Summit Racing

Free Shipping - Yukon Gear & Axle Wheel Studs with qualifying orders of $109. Shop Wheel Studs at Summit Racing.
www.summitracing.com www.summitracing.com

These might fit the bill, with a flat cut onto the end to clear the knuckle. They are only .15 longer then the factory studs. I'm less than pleased with the pricing @ $6 a stud though.

Wheel Stud Thread Size: 7/16 in.-20

Knurl Diameter (in.): 0.468 in.

Underhead Length (in.): 1.500 in.
Click to expand...
Aren't there a factory OEM equivalent?

Damn; FJB/Brandon;
The wheel studs (9/16in -18) I got for my Bronco's '87 dually were $2.50 each two years ago, now they're $3.19 :eek::mad3:
And those studs are 3.28in long.
 
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