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Trans or steering cooler tech for 2020

YotaAtieToo

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15 years ago it seemed that the heat sink coolers were the hot ticket for steering and even some guys running them on transmissions.

I had good luck on one rig with full hydro with one, switched all the same parts to another rig and it was enough. Maybe cooler location, heavier rig or maybe both?

​​​​​
Seems like some have stayed with them, while others have gone back to plate and fin or stacked plate coolers. Curious what the general consensus is here.

Have a few very different products I'm curious about.

Current one is for a trans cooler in addition to standard plate and fin. Rig is basically a stock 4runner, but I have had the trans get hot in the snow. The thing about the snow is that obviously ambient Temps are not high, but airflow can be minimal. The idea would be to mount the heat sink where snow usually blows up or packs into anyway.

Then I have my little samurai sxs project that's going to get a basically bone stock power steering set up from a sidekick. Currently I'm running manual steering and because it's so light, it's not bad, so I'm thinking that it will be fine. I like that the heat sinks add a considerable amount of fluid to a power steering system.

Then there is single vs dual pass heat sinks? Is the dual pass going to be better because the fluid spends more time inside?

Last I'm building a jeep for my father in law. 6.2 ls 6l80e full hydro.

I'm thinking a pair of stacked plate coolers is probably more appropriate for this build?
 

Winchested

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I was just discussing this with PSC the other day when ordering my set up.

Basically said the aluminum heat sink coolers are needed for slow crawling etc. I'm currently running a Hayden 676 cooler (plate and fin) and may run both in line.
 

YotaAtieToo

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Needed?

​​​​See I figured the rad mounted cooler would be better for slow stuff since the engine fan is pulling air across it, but I'm not sure.

I think part of the success on my first set up was the electric fan blew down it. They still need airflow to work imo.

I agree with steering, that having one in addition to a plate and fin or stacked plate cooler can't hurt. I'm guessing it's the same with the trans, but I'm not sure.
​​​​​​
 

SLOWPOKE693

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A liquid to liquid cooler is going to be the most effective in a crawler that doesn't see much air flow. I had a discussion about this with a tech at CBR a few years ago and they recommended using an external in line fluid/fluid cooler for the transmission and an internal fluid/fluid cooler for the oil.

I've had good luck running those Ebay tube and fin coolers with the small electric fan for the power steering stuff on crawlers.
 

YotaAtieToo

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A liquid to liquid cooler is going to be the most effective in a crawler that doesn't see much air flow. I had a discussion about this with a tech at CBR a few years ago and they recommended using an external in line fluid/fluid cooler for the transmission and an internal fluid/fluid cooler for the oil.

I've had good luck running those Ebay tube and fin coolers with the small electric fan for the power steering stuff on crawlers.

Well yes :laughing: I guess there is always "best" and the next level badass best.:flipoff2:

I'm guessing they're set up uses a dedicated coolant system and doesn't just tap into the engine coolant?

For racing, I get it. For trail rigs, I think that's a little overkill.

The 4runner is fine 95% of the time, but if I'm going to do it, I want to do it once. I plan on the decent plate and fin cooler either way, but I figured for another $60 I could throw the heat sink in there somewhere. If I put it on the inside of the driver frame it will get snow packed around it and definitely help when the rad is blocked by snow. That or down behind the skid plate in the front.

As far as the jeep, I'd interested to see more bling set ups. A dual unit with its own fan would be sweet.
 

gt1guy

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I just got all my full hydro parts from Howe. They only make two sizes of heat sink coolers. They said the smaller of the two would be fine for me, but I went with the larger one just for the little extra capacity and piece of mind. One other thing they mentioned, was to make the lines to the cooler as long as possible (without being retarded). That will also give more capacity and the lines do help cool the fluid a bit.
I'm mounting it down low in front of the grill so it will at least get some air flow when the Jeep isn't moving very fast.


The 6l80/90's don't like it when the fluid gets really hot. It's a clutch to clutch design rather then having bands in it.

I have a 6l90 with a 2800rpm stall converter, so the possibility of hot fluid is there. I went with a Setrab stacked plate cooler that could be a bit overkill, but I also added a remote fluid thermostat from Improved Racing inline with the cooler. So hopefully the trans fluid will always run in the 170* range. Cooler is in front of the radiator so it will always have air flow.
 

YotaAtieToo

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I like the idea of trying to run the lines long, it would mean that if you get a hole, you could most likely just cut the bad piece out and short cut it.

Either way I always try to keep a double barb fitting in my rig for repairs.
 

gt1guy

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Well yes :laughing: I guess there is always "best" and the next level badass best.:flipoff2:

I'm guessing they're set up uses a dedicated coolant system and doesn't just tap into the engine coolant?

For racing, I get it. For trail rigs, I think that's a little overkill.

The 4runner is fine 95% of the time, but if I'm going to do it, I want to do it once. I plan on the decent plate and fin cooler either way, but I figured for another $60 I could throw the heat sink in there somewhere. If I put it on the inside of the driver frame it will get snow packed around it and definitely help when the rad is blocked by snow. That or down behind the skid plate in the front.

As far as the jeep, I'd interested to see more bling set ups. A dual unit with its own fan would be sweet.



Liquid to liquid coolers use the radiator coolant. One thing they do good is to get the fluid up to operational temp quicker.
 

YotaAtieToo

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Liquid to liquid coolers use the radiator coolant. One thing they do good is to get the fluid up to operational temp quicker.

I know it can be done either way, I'm surprised that they would suggest using the engine coolant system for a high performance application. Doesn't steering normally run cooler than engine Temps anyway?

I guess you'd need a BIG radiator at that point.

The one nice thing is that the liquid/liquid coolers could be mounted anywhere and then you just have to worry about airflow to the rad.
 

YotaAtieToo

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Anyone use one of these? Seems like a really good price with a fan, maybe too good of a price? :laughing:

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/h...AaAp1UEALw_wcB



Something like this is kinda what I had in mind for the jeep. The fact that they split is 70/30 instead of 50/50 is genius since the steering *should* need as much cooling as the trans.

I'm sure there is some downside like heat soak from one system to another, but again trail rig, if things are that hot, he'd stop and let it cool.

https://csfrace.com/new-dual-fluid-oil-cooler/
 

gt1guy

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That dual fluid one looks pretty cool. Neat idea.

You can use your custom CNC cut parts to mount it:flipoff2:
 

HYDRODYNAMIC

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Power Steering Cooling:
With 40"+ tires being the new common size and speeds going up the horsepower of the steering systems are going up as well. If you are working the system in the rocks or revving the pump at high speed, heat will be generated from the restriction of flowing oil. Systems that got away with only reservoir cooling or small passive heat sinks are going to need active cooling with radiator style construction.
The cooler I am going to use is a Thermal Transfer MA-4 with 7.5" or 10" Spal fan. The core is 8" x 8" x 2.5" and the overall is 10.5 x 9.7 x 2.6 with #16 SAE ports. The MA series is similar to the bar and fin style oil coolers sold by Griffin, CBR, and Triton which are commonly used for transmissions or engine oil coolers. The inside of the bars have passage ways "turbulators" to interact with the fluid and transfer more heat. The bar style is also a higher pressure rating at 300 PSI and can handle more impact from debris and vibration.
The MA-4 is rated at a 10psi pressure drop at 20GPM.
100ETD = 180* hot entering oil - 80* cooling ambient air.
It can remove 18,000 BTU/H @ 100 ETD or 7HP worth of heat if the hot oil is 180 and the outside air is 80.
It can remove 9,000 BTU/H @ 50 ETD or 3.5HP worth of heat if the hot oil is 130 and the outside air is 80.

Trans Cooling:
The 4L80 should flow 6GPM (best info I could find) max around 8GPM. I believe this must be the pump flow and not the cooler circuit flow which is closer to 1 GPM at idle and 3.2 GPM while driving, I don't know what driving rpm that was measured at though.
The trans cooler is a Thermal Transfer MA32 single pass which is around 15.75" x 16.34" x 2.625" core. It should remove 40,000BTU/Hr. at 3.2 GPM at 100ETD which is equivalent to 16HP. The trans cooler fan is a single 300W 15" VA91-ABL326-65A rated at 1357 CFM at 150Pa pressure.
I plan to run the SBL-TS-165P temp sensor on the trans cooler which will turn on at 140* and be full speed at 165*.

Entering Temps:
With remote mounted coolers there is no supplemental air flow from the vehicle moving so the fans are the only means of cooling. If the coolers are near any other heat source or stacked and not enough air is moving they can be picking up heat and raising the operating temps higher than the system would ever reach on its own.
Liquid heat exchangers save space but cause the issue of having a common radiator and fan temp range. Some new transmissions are using thermostats to warn up to operating temp and stay there then cool with a cooler fan combo. Engine temps are hotter than transmission temps so unless the system is designed and operated as intended, fluid heat exchangers can overheat a trans and or overheat the engine due to the added load on one radiator.
 
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blakes

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I recently installed a little 5x12" transmission cooler from Autozone on my GF's 2004 Toyota Matrix. The tranny was trying to overheat on the 6 mile dirt road climb up to our cabin. It made about 15 degrees Fahrenheit difference. It's one of those 20 dollar cheapies that zip tie through the radiator.
 

YotaAtieToo

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CBR makes nice stuff, but holy fuck are they proud of it! :eek:

nice stuff cost money

Neat idea, but that kinda fucks you for mounting it anyway but vertical.

I put the biggest tube and fin cooler napa had on the 4runner. About 10x16. If that doesn't cool better than the in radiator type I'll be pissed.

I still plan to add a heat sink type for snow.

the one i link is smaller than the one you installed, plus it gets rid of the reservoir and pressurizes the system, which is good.

https://www.jegs.com/i/Gates/465/22401/10002/-1 - toss on of these inline on your radiator hoses.
 

YotaAtieToo

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nice stuff cost money



the one i link is smaller than the one you installed, plus it gets rid of the reservoir and pressurizes the system, which is good.

https://www.jegs.com/i/Gates/465/22401/10002/-1 - toss on of these inline on your radiator hoses.

The 4runner I'm talking about has a 1" lift and 33s, I think a liquid to liquid cooler would be a little silly :flipoff2:​​​​​​


Like someone else mentioned, normal trans or steering temp is less than engine temp, so where's the benefit?

Well, I guess I'm referring to the hot side of the engine cooling, not sure what the colt side is if you're running 180*.

I like the idea on a dedicated rig. Run a large radiator and you only have to focus on one thing getting air flow. 1 or 2 fans vs 3 or 4. Plus being able to mount the liquid to liquid coolers anywhere on a buggy would be nice.

For a trail rig, I'm having a hard time seeing it.
 
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the liquid to liquid cooler i linked is from the later ford OBS, i was suggesting it if you need a little more cooling in addition to your napa cooler since its cheap. just looked and rockauto has em for $35.
 
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My power steering cooler, Oil cooler out of a crashed Hughes 500 D model, 300 psi and holds a quart of fluid with -8 fittings. I ran a big fin cooler in front of the rad, cost me a head gasket. The big boys around here run external coolers with a built in fan.
GjHyuAz.jpg
C7AZl3O.jpg
 

SLOWPOKE693

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My power steering cooler, Oil cooler out of a crashed Hughes 500 D model, 300 psi and holds a quart of fluid with -8 fittings. I ran a big fin cooler in front of the rad, cost me a head gasket. The big boys around here run external coolers with a built in fan.
GjHyuAz.jpg
C7AZl3O.jpg

Thats bad ass. :smokin:
 

YotaAtieToo

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the liquid to liquid cooler i linked is from the later ford OBS, i was suggesting it if you need a little more cooling in addition to your napa cooler since its cheap. just looked and rockauto has em for $35.

It was a Hayden cooler, I wanted plate and fin but the only one they had was like 4x8.

I'm not seeing a link to a Ford cooler?
 

Wulf

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Running a Hayden cooler for the power steering on my Tacoma which was burning the fluid on 35s. Made a mount so I could avoid using the cheesy zip ties through the AC condenser.

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YotaAtieToo

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Not hard to upgrade from a stock toyota "cooler" where the just run the hard line a little long and do a 180* :laughing:​​​​​​



On a side note. If one needed a BIG cooler. My samurai has a stock replacement all aluminum radiator. Pretty sure they are around $200 and have about a 1 1/4" in and outlet. :laughing:

One could easily tig on some AN fittings and seal off the radiator cap if necessary.

Which brings up another idea, what about dirt bike radiators for a trans or power steering cooler?

https://www.ebay.com/i/202926327072...niZeulvmInnwikkNU_cnh28n41WtQR_QaAryeEALw_wcB

Quad?

https://www.ebay.com/i/253972103113...G26XGDZhzjTjw3ksifYZAfOjLFgI8TNgaApLlEALw_wcB
 
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Wulf

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Not hard to upgrade from a stock toyota "cooler" where the just run the hard line a little long and do a 180* :laughing:​​​​​​



On a side note. If one needed a BIG cooler. My samurai has a stock replacement all aluminum radiator. Pretty sure they are around $200 and have about a 1 1/4" in and outlet. :laughing:

One could easily tig on some AN fittings and seal off the radiator cap if necessary.

Which brings up another idea, what about dirt bike radiators for a trans or power steering cooler?

https://www.ebay.com/i/202926327072...niZeulvmInnwikkNU_cnh28n41WtQR_QaAryeEALw_wcB

Quad?

https://www.ebay.com/i/253972103113...G26XGDZhzjTjw3ksifYZAfOjLFgI8TNgaApLlEALw_wcB


that is an interesting idea. "Bonus" additional fill/bleed option due to the extra cap
 
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Segway to p/s fluid, I run a concoction of Amsoil synthetic tractor oil and kubota sudt2 synthetic laced with mobil shc 626 gear and bearing oil, most bestest:grinpimp:
 

Ghetto Fab.

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Ya, I'm not sure if the cap would be good or bad. They hold 15 psi iirc and I don't know what a trans or steering return is.

I've seen a few competition crawler guys go to a pressurized PS resi so that might not be bad. I'm guessing a motorcycle rad holds a decent amount of fluid, so you could almost consider it a cooler and resi all in one.

Kevin
 
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