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Track kick doublers? Anyone still making them?

JR4X

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How are the shafts the collar is connecting being supported. Single bearing each? Single bearing and pocket bearing?

If they're not supported well on both ends then they're gonna move around. For a single male/female shaft pair with a long spline section this can result in tolerable misalignment but double the splines and double the slop and everything is going to wear more.
I believe that’s the case. The doublers use a fabbed welded steel adapter with the splines cut off of a slip shaft from a drive shaft. So the shafts are male/male and the coupler female/female, that coupler seems to work around a lot and eventually broaches out. Alignment seems to be difficult, and wiggle seems to be an issue. I think both combined are the Achilles heel of them.
 
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arse_sidewards

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I believe that’s the case. The doublers use a fabbed welded steel adapter with the splines cut off of a slip shaft from a drive shaft. So the shafts are male/male and the couple female, that seems to work around a lot and eventually broaches out. Alignment seems to be difficult, and wiggle seems to be an issue. I think both combined are the Achilles heel of them.
I bet a single bearing in the middle of the adapter would go a long ways. Wouldn't be hard since you're just turning an additional bore that's concentric with whatever your locating bores are. If there's length for it (doubtful) a double tapered roller (FWD wheel bearing) would be even better.
 

YotaAtieToo

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I dont build the doublers I just stock them
Its fairly easy to build a tracker toy doubler using the early toyota 4speed to tcase adapter housing

shifters are up to the buyers to fabricate

This is the Toyota parts your looking for
image.jpg

Trying to keep all the derails to a minimum :laughing:

What is that adapter for? Kick case to Toyota case?
 

PointsNorth

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its original use was for a toyota 4speed to toyota gear drive case. there is both a five speed and auto tracker currently running this behind a kick case locally
 

PointsNorth

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your still modifying the kick case like you would when building the samurai doubler

correction the manual tracker is right to the five speed with duel toy cases but is having issues with the modified shift tower he had to use
 

YotaAtieToo

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its original use was for a toyota 4speed to toyota gear drive case. there is both a five speed and auto tracker currently running this behind a kick case locally

Derp, I was looking at it like it was already modified. :homer:

Doesn't do me any good as my case is 23 spline anyway. Plus its way too long. I'd like to find out if it's possible to broach the track kick trans output splines into the Toyota case input. If you could do that, you could make a ~3/4" thick adapter.

your still modifying the kick case like you would when building the samurai doubler

Any idea how the couplers are made on the all zuk doublers?
 

ParadisePWoffrd

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Derp, I was looking at it like it was already modified. :homer:

Doesn't do me any good as my case is 23 spline anyway. Plus its way too long. I'd like to find out if it's possible to broach the track kick trans output splines into the Toyota case input. If you could do that, you could make a ~3/4" thick adapter.



Any idea how the couplers are made on the all zuk doublers?

I think most are turning down the yokes from each case, and pressing/welding them in a pipe/tube. The older kits struggled from splines in the coupler wearing out, IIRC.
 

JR4X

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I think most are turning down the yokes from each case, and pressing/welding them in a pipe/tube. The older kits struggled from splines in the coupler wearing out, IIRC.
The samurai t-case getting married to a modified kick case shared a common spline. The out put shaft of the kick doubler box is the diameter and spline as the input shaft on the samurai case. You removed the yoke from samurai input and cut the threaded nub off so that the two shafts butted together. The coupler was the slip yoke off of a track/kick rear drive shaft with the yoke ears cut off. The male splined shafts seemed to survive just fine but the coupler collar splines would wear out.
 

YotaAtieToo

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The samurai t-case getting married to a modified kick case shared a common spline. The out put shaft of the kick doubler box is the diameter and spline as the input shaft on the samurai case. You removed the yoke from samurai input and cut the threaded nub off so that the two shafts butted together. The coupler was the slip yoke off of a track/kick rear drive shaft with the yoke ears cut off. The male splined shafts seemed to survive just fine but the coupler collar splines would wear out.

This is why I've never done it, pure trail rig, I'm sure they last forever. Street driving or dirt road running, I'm sure they wear quick.
 

arse_sidewards

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This is why I've never done it, pure trail rig, I'm sure they last forever. Street driving or dirt road running, I'm sure they wear quick.

If the shafts aren't supported by two bearings each load from the gears has to go through the splined coupler into the other shaft in order to get to a bearing that supports it then it will not last. If it is supported properly so that the coupler is just dealing with torque and misalignment (which should be kept to a minimum) it should be fine. Chevy couplers generally lasted at least 100k and those were 10spl garbage. Slip yokes in slip yoke service last pretty much indefinitely.

You could weld a plate into the ID of the adapter and then bore it concentric to the adapter's index ID (easy to do) to hold a big ball bearing or roller bearing that supports the splined adapter.
 

YotaAtieToo

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If the shafts aren't supported by two bearings each load from the gears has to go through the splined coupler into the other shaft in order to get to a bearing that supports it then it will not last. If it is supported properly so that the coupler is just dealing with torque and misalignment (which should be kept to a minimum) it should be fine. Chevy couplers generally lasted at least 100k and those were 10spl garbage. Slip yokes in slip yoke service last pretty much indefinitely.

You could weld a plate into the ID of the adapter and then bore it concentric to the adapter's index ID (easy to do) to hold a big ball bearing or roller bearing that supports the splined adapter.

Yes, it's the same thing Toyota dual case have been dealing with forever. Except they have a bearing supporting the coupler and it still happens.

Slip yoke is a little different, since when set up correctly, there is a lot more engagement.
 

JR4X

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arse_sidewards thats probably the next logical step that just never got taken. Everyone that was making them didn’t make them long enough
 

ParadisePWoffrd

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Manual 4 spd. Which aren't exactly super common these days.

Thanks. Yeah, I found some pics and noticed that, after I posted. 10 years ago you could grab them for nothing. Probly still cheap if they havent been scrapped.

If someone was going auto, there is a Mitsubishi (IIRC) trans, that is the same as the 4spd auto in the zuk. Except, it has a 23spline output and round 6 bolt flange, and will accept a d300 or other tcase. It is not electronic controlled, and I believe the tail section could be swapped to the zuk trans or bellhousing swapped to the other. It doesnt help with the real need to have a high gear lower than 1:1.
 

YotaAtieToo

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Thanks. Yeah, I found some pics and noticed that, after I posted. 10 years ago you could grab them for nothing. Probly still cheap if they havent been scrapped.

If someone was going auto, there is a Mitsubishi (IIRC) trans, that is the same as the 4spd auto in the zuk. Except, it has a 23spline output and round 6 bolt flange, and will accept a d300 or other tcase. It is not electronic controlled, and I believe the tail section could be swapped to the zuk trans or bellhousing swapped to the other. It doesnt help with the real need to have a high gear lower than 1:1.

I was part of that big thread on the other board.

I believe the conclusion was that the mitsu 23 spline was not correct. Possibly like Toyota vs jeep 23 spline, super close, but not correct
 

Covecrawler

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I was part of that big thread on the other board.

I believe the conclusion was that the mitsu 23 spline was not correct. Possibly like Toyota vs jeep 23 spline, super close, but not correct
There’s a guy here in VA running the 2.0l, Mitsubishi trans, dana 300. He had a build thread on IBB. He competes in XRocks here on the east coast.

Point is, this setup does work.
 

Purevil71

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I don’t think you could call me a cheap ass. I’ve had over $30K in a samurai before. But I had atlas in that one because $2000 for one of those makes more sense than $2,000 for a few modified parts to stick my two cases together.

I never tried a samurai doubler because the collar splines wearing out was such a problem.

The problem I’m trying to overcome is getting the correct gear ratio in high range in a 16V/5 speed tracker. This isn’t a crawler, it’s my street able trail rig. I’m stuck with 5.13’s when I need a final ratio of 6.83 to 7.20.

A single samurai case COULD do what I need but then I need 4.30 diff gears. Or a kick/kick doubler that I could leave the range box in low all the time and then I need 3.73’s in the diffs.

Same issue I'm having in my 2001 2-door.
I'm shooting for a capable mall crawler build, street friendly, but trail ready.
It's currently sitting on 33's with stock gears, I'm going to try and do a V6 swap this winter with a 2.5L I got from a friend for cheap. Runs/drives, but frame is rusted too bad to return to the road.
Hopefully the extra HP works, but man a doubler off road would be pimp.
Personally I'd love a Tracker/Tracker doubler with one case being the 4:1
 

Tydes

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I was part of that big thread on the other board.

I believe the conclusion was that the mitsu 23 spline was not correct. Possibly like Toyota vs jeep 23 spline, super close, but not correct
I know quite a few people who run Toyota 23 spline to atlas/Dana 300/NP 231 23 spline with zero issues. I am one of them. Jeep rear output is 1.215" and the Toyota is 1.195" Which is a difference of .02.
 

arse_sidewards

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I know quite a few people who run Toyota 23 spline to atlas/Dana 300/NP 231 23 spline with zero issues. I am one of them. Jeep rear output is 1.215" and the Toyota is 1.195" Which is a difference of .02.
That's because everybody who's running Toyota 23-spl on the transmission side of things drives like a pussy and even if they didn't they don't have power to break anything.

20 thou is a fairly huge amount of slop for a splined connection.
 

Tydes

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That's because everybody who's running Toyota 23-spl on the transmission side of things drives like a pussy and even if they didn't they don't have power to break anything.

20 thou is a fairly huge amount of slop for a
That's because everybody who's running Toyota 23-spl on the transmission side of things drives like a pussy and even if they didn't they don't have power to break anything.

20 thou is a fairly huge amount of slop for a splined connection.
Here is a buddies rig that hasn’t had an issue
 

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YotaAtieToo

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I know quite a few people who run Toyota 23 spline to atlas/Dana 300/NP 231 23 spline with zero issues. I am one of them. Jeep rear output is 1.215" and the Toyota is 1.195" Which is a difference of .02.

How are they set up? Home made adapter to bolt a D300 to a r150?

Isn't a D300 a female input?
 

YotaAtieToo

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We Run V8 1uzfe to A340 out of a lexus and swap a AW4 tail-housing on the back. Pretty easy

Gotcha, forgot about that one.

So you only swap the tail housing and not the shaft obviously?

Anyone have a lot of miles on that setup? I'd think that would be the killer, not stresses of crawling.
 

Tydes

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Just cut the stock shaft down to the length of the AW4. You could run the entire aw4 but you would need to swap the bellhousing, TC, and the pump. I have just over a year on mine. I ran a 22ret to AW4 before I swapped over to 1uz. So far I DD it, snow wheel, ran Rubicon and Fordyce with zero issues. My other buddies who talked me into the swap have been running theirs for 6 plus years. v8s, front and rear steer, 39 reds etc.
 

Covecrawler

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Link to the build thread???

I was wrong, it’s on PBB.
 
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