Track Days (HPDE)

[Priest]

I'm not trying to, it just doesnt look appealing watching youtube vids. Probably cause its hard to actually see what is going on vs being the driver. Hell I may end up loving AX and stick with it... who knows. I'll try to find some events.

Akron Sports Car Club holds some really cool AutoX events at Dragway 42. They use all the return roads and stuff so it's not as much like a "parking lot" kind of event. Akron Sports Car Club

 

[dwygrsshpr]

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I have a significant background in racing, and have been fortunate to make a living in the industry. Just don't have the money or skills to make it as a driver, but I get paid stupid amounts of money to do a job I would probably do for free.

Just remember, there are rehabs for almost every type of addiction you can imagine. The only rehab for a track addict is more track time (at least until you run our of money)

Many happy miles on the Ford

Oh, I bet you have the skills, it's the depth of the pocket book that hurts! I was once complemented that I had the burgeoning skill set to be a third-seater in endurance events (ie "gentleman driver") just to keep position during middle of the night stints, but, well you know how it goes: to make a small fortune in racing, you need to start with a big one....

RE addiction: "Racing makes heroin addiction look like a vague wish for something salty" - Peter Egan, noted motorsports journalist & racer

RE many happy miles: Ditto!


Some PCA HPDEs may require a single day "intro" class before they let you into a multi-day event. It's essentially a skid pad exercise to teach you reactions/handling when you find your adhesion limits. It's kind of a PITA if you have any existing skills, but if you are a 0/0 novice, they might not wave it. Purpose is to teach you recovery in a completely controlled environment with very little risk of injury or damage (it's never zero!)

I have never been to an event where there has not been "offs" - it's part of it. Some are more spectacular than others - like that C6 trying to boost it over the flag station above!

 

[Rttoys]

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I have never been to an event where there has not been "offs" - it's part of it. Some are more spectacular than others - like that C6 trying to boost it over the flag station above!

Yep. Had a hellcat overtake me in the straights and he was in the dirt on the next turn. It happens.

Watch my older autocross videos. I have spun out many times. The tires I had were all or nothing, so once I lost it, it was gone. Now it’s mostly controllable skids, with 100tw tires (to make xtremej’s blood pressure go up ).

 

[XtremeJ]

I'm not trying to, it just doesnt look appealing watching youtube vids. Probably cause its hard to actually see what is going on vs being the driver. Hell I may end up loving AX and stick with it... who knows. I'll try to find some events.

Yup. One of those things that is like watching paint dry, the format does not translate to video.

Whole different aspect from behind the wheel.

Even just one or two auto-x events will benefit you greatly the first time you drive on track

 

[Dejeeper]

A veiw from behind of me at njmp t-bolt trying to hold off a 500 and 450hp camero. Got real loose for 2 turns after passing the blue mustang.



My full session from my view but i hung the camera poorly and the rear view mirror blocks the view.

 

[deadmeat]

Lots of great advice here.
I did Auto X. Then track days.
Still like them both.
Read XtremeJ advice again. I have learned a lot from him just talking to him.
When I have the money I will take him up on his offer for track lessons too.

 

[Dejeeper]

More from the track,

My view.



Car behind me view.

 

[Otto M@n]

I dunno. I try to understand the car thing, but I still don't get it. I mean sure, as an adrenaline junkie, I'd drive anything. The shit just looks so....boring compared to bikes

Looks like me on my daily commute to work

 

[Priest]

I dunno. I try to understand the car thing, but I still don't get it. I mean sure, as an adrenaline junkie, I'd drive anything. The shit just looks so....boring compared to bikes

Looks like me on my daily commute to work

Maybe go out and do some slidy things in a car. Cars get really fun when they are sideways.

 

[Roc Doc]

Yup. One of those things that is like watching paint dry, the format does not translate to video.

I saw an Autocross video of a Lotus 7 with a guy that could really drive, if I can find it I'll post it up. I seem to remember it was in the UK.

 

[[486]]

Maybe go out and do some slidy things in a car. Cars get really fun when they are sideways.

welcome to the winter wonderland
don't even need any hp, just weld the rear and you'll have fun

 

[Rttoys]

I saw an Autocross video of a Lotus 7 with a guy that could really drive, if I can find it I'll post it up. I seem to remember it was in the UK.

The owner of stalker (lotus 7 replica), Jason minehart and Jason kupka came out to our SCCA autocross in January. We have some very fast autocross runners in our group. A handfull run nationals. This dude smokes everyone by over 3 seconds raw time. He is in the same class we are in and beat me (top run for our group that month) by over 8 seconds.

 

[Roc Doc]

The owner of stalker (lotus 7 replica) came out to our SCCA autocross in January. We have some very fast autocross runners in our group. A handfull run nationals. This dude smokes everyone by almost 4 seconds raw time.

I bet. Talk about adding lightness.

The last Auto X I did was in my 76 911 Targa (flexy flyer), had stock suspension and the only real upgrades were soft tires on 16" wheels and a good running 3.2l Carrera engine. Still had the stock 915 trans, but because it was a 76 it had shorter R&P gearing which was good on the course, could actually get into 3rd in a couple spots, but it was just street car and not race prepped at all. I got second TTOD to a Corvette on slicks. Something about a 2700lb car with decent HP.

 

[Rttoys]

I dunno. I try to understand the car thing, but I still don't get it. I mean sure, as an adrenaline junkie, I'd drive anything. The shit just looks so....boring compared to bikes

Looks like me on my daily commute to work

I’m still on your side here. Bikes are far more intense and take a ton more skill to ride hard than a car will ever be. Can’t bitch though, autocross has been pretty fun. it’s a different fun though.

 

[Otto M@n]

I’m still on your side here. Bikes are far more intense and take a ton more skill to ride hard than a car will ever be. Can’t bitch though, autocross has been pretty fun. it’s a different fun though.

For sure. Like I said, fun is fun and pushing equipment to do shit it is (or isn't) supposed to do is fun. But like...there's no real risk in a car. I could see being very annoyed at a car track day with the mentality that newbies have. Sending it through corners, blowing apexes and running off track. Because what happens? You spin out in the grass? Big fucking deal. I'm a firm believer that the self preservation aspect of riding a motorcycle keeps people a lot more in check.

And besides. You can't do this in a car

 

[Rttoys]

I tried to stick my knee out of the car taking some corners. It didn’t work.

 

[Dejeeper]

The flip side is that 2 weekends ago at the moto race at njmp there were 3 lifeline flights out of the pitts. U can have that bullshit. Ill stick to 4 tires and cage.

 

[Rttoys]

The flip side is that 2 weekends ago at the moto race at njmp there were 3 lifeline flights out of the pitts. U can have that bullshit. Ill stick to 4 tires and cage.

It was weird on my first car track day, there was no amber-lamps on site. Weird

 

[[486]]

I tried to stick my knee out of the car taking some corners. It didn’t work.

it's a jeep thing

 

[Priest]

It was weird on my first car track day, there was no amber-lamps on site. Weird

That's weird. Every event we run there is ambulance and fire at the track. We can't run if they aren't there

 

[Rttoys]

If there was one, I didn’t see it. When on motorcycles, it’s on pit lane. My wife won’t go with me to msrh, because someone always leaves in a helicopter.

 

[Priest]

For sure. Like I said, fun is fun and pushing equipment to do shit it is (or isn't) supposed to do is fun. But like...there's no real risk in a car. I could see being very annoyed at a car track day with the mentality that newbies have. Sending it through corners, blowing apexes and running off track. Because what happens? You spin out in the grass? Big fucking deal. I'm a firm believer that the self preservation aspect of riding a motorcycle keeps people a lot more in check.

And besides. You can't do this in a car

Well I was in the right seat with a first-timer when this happened last season. We rolled five times. Bike people are crazy.

 

[XtremeJ]

Details man, details. Glad you were OK.

Anything you could have done as instructor to prevent this?

In general I have found bike guys adapt really well to 4 wheels. Already know the line, already have a "feel" for what the car is doing.

I had a scary situation with an older gent in his GT2 at High Plains. Only time I have ever reached for a students steering wheel before. Big picture, I revised a bunch of stuff I did with students. Trusted my instincts more, and kept a tighter leash on some drivers. I parked the older gent for the day, and eventually we asked nicely that he no longer attend our events. He then shopped around the other clubs locally, and had a very scary situation with the Vette guys.

 

[Priest]

Details man, details. Glad you were OK.

New Kia Stinger GT. Brake failure
Student had installed new pads prior to the event. Everything worked well all day. Went out during open session at the end of the day and lost all brakes. Looking back we found that the pads were gone, metal on metal. I believe that the nannies were using the brakes all day to burn through a complete set because he wasn't driving that hard from my perspective. I never felt anything that would indicate this was happening so if it was it was very subtle. I also never smelled them. We came into the braking zone and i noticed him using the brake pedal with nothing happening. I told him to start down shifting hard and scrubbing speed. I reached over and pulled the wheel a bit to encourage him to turn in to scrub which he did. We hit the grass and I grabbed my simpson hybrid with my hands to keep my arms secure. We hit the guard rail and started tumbling. Aside from some scrapes and bruises, we were both fine. In reflection, I don't know that I would have done anything differently. He had been doing well all day so I probably wasn't as hyper attentive as I would have been earlier in the day, but I don't think that would have had any impact on the outcome.

 

[XtremeJ]

New Kia Stinger GT. Brake failure
Student had installed new pads prior to the event. Everything worked well all day. Went out during open session at the end of the day and lost all brakes. Looking back we found that the pads were gone, metal on metal. I believe that the nannies were using the brakes all day to burn through a complete set because he wasn't driving that hard from my perspective. I never felt anything that would indicate this was happening so if it was it was very subtle. I also never smelled them. We came into the braking zone and i noticed him using the brake pedal with nothing happening. I told him to start down shifting hard and scrubbing speed. I reached over and pulled the wheel a bit to encourage him to turn in to scrub which he did. We hit the grass and I grabbed my simpson hybrid with my hands to keep my arms secure. We hit the guard rail and started tumbling. Aside from some scrapes and bruises, we were both fine. In reflection, I don't know that I would have done anything differently. He had been doing well all day so I probably wasn't as hyper attentive as I would have been earlier in the day, but I don't think that would have had any impact on the outcome.

Copy, thanks

one lesson I guess -

• the newer cars that use brakes as the traction and stability control probably really need monitoring on brake useage, a complete set of pads in a single day is just crazy.
• I have had students at BMW events pull a front wheel at lunch time so I could look at pads for them. BMW club has recognized shops locally that do pre-track inspections, instructors can perform their own. It starts a relationship between the driver and the shop, the shops do not charge for the inspection, but there is usually a few items needing attention that the shops can make a little money on.

I also encourage students to test the brakes during the first lap in a relatively safe part of the track, just in case. I know we had issues on the STi using track / race pads (possibly Hawk Blue, honestly cannot recall). The problem in cooler and cold temps was that the pads never got to temp and the slotted rotors acted like cheese grater, and destroyed the too cold pads in no time. Also massive rotor wear. My fault, or an expensive lesson learned I guess. Car was almost undriveable anywhere except on track at 10/10. Initial bite would put your face in the steering wheel everytime

Big lesson I guess is Kia Stinger GT is a pretty safe track day car

What track is that? PittRace?

 

[Priest]

Big lesson I guess is Kia Stinger GT is a pretty safe track day car

What track is that? PittRace?

The car did it's job well of protecting us. There are other student cars I've been in that would not have faired nearly that well.
Yes, that is PittRace. We went off at the entrance to turn 7 and landed back on the track at the exit of 8.

 

[Mikenike]

The car did it's job well of protecting us. There are other student cars I've been in that would not have faired nearly that well.
Yes, that is PittRace. We went off at the entrance to turn 7 and landed back on the track at the exit of 8.

On an unrelated note of sorts what did you think of that car performance wise? I always thought they were kind of neat to see since kia created them to be beemer killers

 

[Priest]

On an unrelated note of sorts what did you think of that car performance wise? I always thought they were kind of neat to see since kia created them to be beemer killers

It was decent. Felt kind of numb and heavy from the passenger seat. All in all, for a 4 door hatch it's pretty sporty. Much more of a touring car than a I would call it a sports car.

 

[Dejeeper]

What i got out of that story is u were wearing a simpson hybrid. I would not be instructor without one.

Maybe ill see u out at pittrace next year.

 

[Priest]

What i got out of that story is u were wearing a simpson hybrid. I would not be instructor without one.

Maybe ill see u out at pittrace next year.

Yep. I won't get in a car without it these days. Two years ago I had two vertebrae in my neck fused...can't afford to have any more damage.