Tourist submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean

[gt1guy]

My thought is, the navy was in close proximity already either doing spy stuff on other nations or spying on this guys submarine to see how well it might be detected being made out of very little metal structure… for military intelligence and purposes yaknow.

That could very well be true. But lets not forget that sound travels much farther and much faster in water than in air. It's traveling at almost a mile a second, the colder the water, the faster it travels.

Cool story time:

We were doing a shallow wet welding job in the GOM. Divers were working at -15', so no-D. We were inside of the grid of a survey boat dragging a air cannon array. The divers could here the bangs before the boat cam over the horizon, so that was at least 12 miles. When it was 5 miles away it was loud as fuck and uncomfortable for the divers. I'd just pull the divers when they said it was too loud.
One diver was standing on the ladder and said he wanted to see how close he could let the boat get. At 3 miles he couldn't have his head under the surface, at 1.5 miles he bailed out of the water saying it felt like his body was being hit by a car.

When that sub imploded, once everything collapsed as far as it could, a shock wave would have rebounded out and away from it.

 

[aczlan]

My thought is, the navy was in close proximity already either doing spy stuff on other nations or spying on this guys submarine to see how well it might be detected being made out of very little metal structure… for military intelligence and purposes yaknow.

Except that that would require someone actively looking for it with either active sonar or a magnometer, the arrays I referred to earlier are for passive sonar only, listening for sounds in the water not active sonar (aka "one ping only Vasili")

I wonder if they can hear the titanic decaying? Yaknow, like when pieces fall off of her. That’d be kinda eerie

I assume they hear a lot of things and filter many of them out (that's one reason why submarines are switching to tunnel drive systems sort of like what's on a jet ski because they're harder to differentiate from normal background noises).
From what I understand somebody was able to use those arrays to track a whale with a unique song across most of the Atlantic as it wandered around.

That could very well be true. But lets not forget that sound travels much farther and much faster in water than in air. It's traveling at almost a mile a second, the colder the water, the faster it travels.

Additionally, from what I understand there are thermocline layers in the water (where it changes temperature) and the sound will bounce back and forth between the top and bottom of that layer (sort of like a ball bouncing off the sides of a hallway) and you can get sound from that much further than you can get with direct sound.
Reportedly, the arrays can track some of our newer quieter submarines for a ways, especially close in to the coast.

Cool story time:

We were doing a shallow wet welding job in the GOM. Divers were working at -15', so no-D. We were inside of the grid of a survey boat dragging a air cannon array. The divers could here the bangs before the boat cam over the horizon, so that was at least 12 miles. When it was 5 miles away it was loud as fuck and uncomfortable for the divers. I'd just pull the divers when they said it was too loud.
One diver was standing on the ladder and said he wanted to see how close he could let the boat get. At 3 miles he couldn't have his head under the surface, at 1.5 miles he bailed out of the water saying it felt like his body was being hit by a car.

When that sub imploded, once everything collapsed as far as it could, a shock wave would have rebounded out and away from it.

Looking at http://www.geo.uib.no/eworkshop/Healy-2005/MMO/docs/tle1908r08980902.pdf it looks like they're used for creating a pulse in the water, is that to map the ocean floor for example to plot where to put a pipeline, drilling rig, or what would that be used for?
Is that comperable to the seismic vibration trucks used for seismic surveys on land?

Seismic vibrator - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Aaron Z

 

[RusM]

That could very well be true. But lets not forget that sound travels much farther and much faster in water than in air. It's traveling at almost a mile a second, the colder the water, the faster it travels.

Cool story time:

We were doing a shallow wet welding job in the GOM. Divers were working at -15', so no-D. We were inside of the grid of a survey boat dragging a air cannon array. The divers could here the bangs before the boat cam over the horizon, so that was at least 12 miles. When it was 5 miles away it was loud as fuck and uncomfortable for the divers. I'd just pull the divers when they said it was too loud.
One diver was standing on the ladder and said he wanted to see how close he could let the boat get. At 3 miles he couldn't have his head under the surface, at 1.5 miles he bailed out of the water saying it felt like his body was being hit by a car.

When that sub imploded, once everything collapsed as far as it could, a shock wave would have rebounded out and away from it.

Jesus

 

[gt1guy]

Additionally, from what I understand there are thermocline layers in the water (where it changes temperature) and the sound will bounce back and forth between the top and bottom of that layer (sort of like a ball bouncing off the sides of a hallway) and you can get sound from that much further than you can get with direct sound.
Reportedly, the arrays can track some of our newer quieter submarines for a ways, especially close in to the coast.

Looking at http://www.geo.uib.no/eworkshop/Healy-2005/MMO/docs/tle1908r08980902.pdf it looks like they're used for creating a pulse in the water, is that to map the ocean floor for example to plot where to put a pipeline, drilling rig, or what would that be used for?
Is that comperable to the seismic vibration trucks used for seismic surveys on land?

Seismic vibrator - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Aaron Z

Yes, thermoclines can act somewhat as walls that sound waves bounce between. Kind of focuses the wave to travel greater distances as opposed to bouncing between the surface and the seabed. Thermoclines play another part too, in that the temperature of water determines the speed of sound. Colder water = faster speed of sound. Pressure (depth) and salinity also play a part.
When we start a new job, the survey guys will drop what they call a SeaBird down to bottom and back up. It measures temperature, salinity and pressure. They punch that info into their computer and use it to calibrate the system for the beacons we use subsea. Every diver has a beacon, crane headache ball gets one, any working tugger gets one and I have a screen in front of my face that shows me where everything is. I can see when the diver has no idea where he is and is walking in circles.

Jesus

I think everyone that works on those survey boat HAS to be deaf. That array they were towing was less than 100yds behind it.

 

[ExWrench]

From what I understand somebody was able to use those arrays to track a whale with a unique song across most of the Atlantic as it wandered around.

 

[Landslide]

Round II

Billionaire to Take $20 Million Sub to Titanic After OceanGate Implosion

A billionaire from Ohio plans to take a $20 million sub to visit the ill-fated Titanic as a means to prove that the industry is now safe.

www.breitbart.com

A billionaire from Ohio plans to take a $20 million sub to visit the ill-fated Titanic as a means to prove that the industry is now safe following the tragic OceanGate implosion last year.

Larry Connor, a real estate investor, told the Wall Street Journal he will partner with Triton Submarines co-founder Patrick Lahey to take a two-person submersible all the way down to the Titanic in hopes of demonstrating that the ocean can be a “wonderful and enjoyable” place.

“I want to show people worldwide that while the ocean is extremely powerful, it can be wonderful and enjoyable and really kind of life-changing if you go about it the right way,” Connor said.

The Triton Submarine vessel, the Triton 4000/2 Abyssal Explorer, cost $20 million to create.

“Patrick has been thinking about and designing this for over a decade. But we didn’t have the materials and technology,” Connor said. “You couldn’t have built this sub five years ago.”

Patrick Lahey had previously been critical of OceanGate CEO Stockton Rush, who he said used predatory tactics to lure wealthy clients onto his vessel. He said the vessel’s carbon fiber hull created the conditions necessary for the catastrophic implosion, resulting in the deaths of five people, including Rush himself.

Related: Footage of Titanic Wreck Seen in Previous Trips Made by Doomed Submersible

OceanGate Expeditions via Storyful
As Breitbart News reported last year:

Leading submarine expert Patrick Lahey said OceanGate CEO Stockton Rush was “predatory” in recruiting passengers for the Titanic dive.
Lahey, the president of Triton submarines, said Rush had a hard time locating wealthy clients for the dive to make it profitable, the Times reported.
Financier Jay Bloom said Rush offered him and his son $250,000 tickets for a “last minute” price of $150,000 each just weeks before the dive, the Daily Mail reported. Bloom said he decided to pull out after Rush flew to Las Vegas in “a two-seater experimental plane that he built” to convince him to join the dive.

As a result of its radical design flaws, which Lahey deemed a “monstrosity,” Stockton’s Titan submersible never received certification.

 

[ApeEater]

Round II

Let's get this party started!

 

[redneckengineered]

Triton has the expertise to do it right. The Titanic won't even be a challenge for their subs.

DSV Limiting Factor - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[M92PV4U]

 

[larboc]

Triton has the expertise to do it right. The Titanic won't even be a challenge for their subs.

DSV Limiting Factor - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Hydro'd to 20,000psi, daaaaaaaaang.

 

[east_beast]

Yeah, the tech is clearly there for this stuff the problem was an egomaniac who thought he could do it cutting corners. There's plenty of things where you can cut some corners to save a dime here and there but I wouldn't recommend doing that for a submarine.

 

[gladman]

I will enjoy the sinking fortunes!

 

[Texas97]

Yeah, the tech is clearly there for this stuff the problem was an egomaniac who thought he could do it cutting corners. There's plenty of things where you can cut some corners to save a dime here and there but I wouldn't recommend doing that for a submarine.

cut out the 50 year old white guys.

 

[nahmus]

As least he's doing it himself and not sending someone else down there

 

[Landslide]

I dunno, imo it’s like visiting a gave site above ground but different. The titanic wasn’t sunk to become a grave site on purpose so I don’t feel like it’s the same thing as robbing a grave site when they bring artifacts back for public viewing. This ladies complaining is a moot point to me.

Titanic survivor’s family rips ‘offensive’ Ohio billionaire Larry Connor for planning to take sub to site after OceanGate tragedy

“There are so many people that see the wreck as a grave site and they’re truly offended by it, this idea of commercial tourism […] they believe it’s an abomination.”

nypost.com

 

[Nvr-enough]

I personally know Larry and have sat at dinner drinking wine talking about his personal experience going down to the bottom of the Mariana Trench in a Triton sub. Awesome guy that has done a ton of super cool shit with his life. I think it's awesome.

 

[Dead Pool]

Will it have the shitter right in front of the only viewing window?

 

[Void_of_Light]

Will it have the shitter right in front of the only viewing window?

Best seat in the house.

 

[Texas97]

I dunno, imo it’s like visiting a gave site above ground but different. The titanic wasn’t sunk to become a grave site on purpose so I don’t feel like it’s the same thing as robbing a grave site when they bring artifacts back for public viewing. This ladies complaining is a moot point to me.

Titanic survivor’s family rips ‘offensive’ Ohio billionaire Larry Connor for planning to take sub to site after OceanGate tragedy

“There are so many people that see the wreck as a grave site and they’re truly offended by it, this idea of commercial tourism […] they believe it’s an abomination.”

nypost.com

unfounded gripe of all unfounded gripes.

 

[gladman]

I personally know Larry and have sat at dinner drinking wine talking about his personal experience going down to the bottom of the Mariana Trench in a Triton sub. Awesome guy that has done a ton of super cool shit with his life. I think it's awesome.

I'm all for it, especially if they have great coverage for the DRT thread.

 

[Nvr-enough]

I'm all for it, especially if they have great coverage for the DRT thread.

I wouldn't count on it being much of a thing. The titanic is around 12.5k feet down. They have been down to nearly 3 times that deep on past trips in the Mariana trench.

 

[CrustyJeep]

I wouldn't count on it being much of a thing. The titanic is around 12.5k feet down. They have been down to nearly 3 times that deep on past trips in the Mariana trench.

Sure, but that thing was probly designed by 50 year old white guys

 

[87manche]

 

[JK13]

Sure, but that thing was probly designed by 50 year old white guys

So what you’re saying is that it will most likely be spec’d correctly and less likely to fail?

 

[rugger]

I dunno, imo it’s like visiting a gave site above ground but different. The titanic wasn’t sunk to become a grave site on purpose so I don’t feel like it’s the same thing as robbing a grave site when they bring artifacts back for public viewing. This ladies complaining is a moot point to me.

Titanic survivor’s family rips ‘offensive’ Ohio billionaire Larry Connor for planning to take sub to site after OceanGate tragedy

“There are so many people that see the wreck as a grave site and they’re truly offended by it, this idea of commercial tourism […] they believe it’s an abomination.”

nypost.com

Salvage rights - if you can get there, it's yours

 

[Texas97]

Salvage rights - if you can get there, it's yours

i was reading a book about treasure hunters in the carribean, and how just salvage companies get a premium for steel that has been underwater from the pre-nuclear age. something about steel that wasnt produced with our level of radiation in the earth right now. called low-background steel

anyway, thought it was interesting

 

[grapehead]

i was reading a book about treasure hunters in the carribean, and how just salvage companies get a premium for steel that has been underwater from the pre-nuclear age. something about steel that wasnt produced with our level of radiation in the earth right now. called low-background steel

anyway, thought it was interesting

Fascinating stuff, thanks for posting that

 

[rugger]

i was reading a book about treasure hunters in the carribean, and how just salvage companies get a premium for steel that has been underwater from the pre-nuclear age. something about steel that wasnt produced with our level of radiation in the earth right now. called low-background steel

anyway, thought it was interesting

I could see them getting a premium.....like 10x. Look d it up, it's actually 17x the value. It's the same for prewar lead. What I don't understand is how they avoid contamination once it's above ground.
It gets used in very sensitive applications where the smallest amounts of stray radiation can affect results.

 

[arse_sidewards]

I could see them getting a premium.....like 10x. Look d it up, it's actually 17x the value. It's the same for prewar lead. What I don't understand is how they avoid contamination once it's above ground.
It gets used in very sensitive applications where the smallest amounts of stray radiation can affect results.

How much do you have to have in one place for it to be worth seeking that premium?

 

[GM Guy]

i was reading a book about treasure hunters in the carribean, and how just salvage companies get a premium for steel that has been underwater from the pre-nuclear age. something about steel that wasnt produced with our level of radiation in the earth right now. called low-background steel

anyway, thought it was interesting

And the chinese are looting wwii ship wrecks to get that steel.

Chinese ship accused of looting iconic WWII shipwrecks

An illegal Chinese salvage operation is suspected to have raided two iconic World War II wrecks.

www.marinecorpstimes.com