The skid steer thread

[72Pstroke]

How do you like that thing now that we got some snow?

The snowblower kicks ass.
The strong point for it is doing the road. I make 1 pass down the road and one pass back, done deal.
I am not sure how efficient they would be on a big parking lot. It will send the snow 40'-50'.
We have had 30" of snow in the last 2 weeks.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

The snowblower kicks ass.
The strong point for it is doing the road. I make 1 pass down the road and one pass back, done deal.
I am not sure how efficient they would be on a big parking lot. It will send the snow 40'-50'.
We have had 30" of snow in the last 2 weeks.

I don't really do the big lots, more of a support for the loaders and trucks. There is a few places where a blower would be really nice. Like long side walks that have curves. Not really supposed to pile snow on the grass, it's supposed to all come out to the lot. But the snow blower could just broadcast out.

Another is a apartment complex that everything has to be pushed out about 200 yards, blower could broadcast over a fence into a field.

I'd also like to do calls where people with long driveways can't push anymore with thier little quad or whatever.

 

[speed bump]

New Skid steer question for you guys. We are going to purchase a new skid steer at work this year to replace our 15 yr old S135 bobcat. It's been a decent machine but 15 years of exposure to cement and alkalis had started taking its toll on the electrical.

Limiting things for it are:
Needs to be under 80" tall to operate around our mills. Just a hazard of a 50+ yr old plant.
Needs to be wheeled, this will spend 95% of it's time on concrete and its critical uses are in spaces where throwing a track means several hours of recovery before you could reinstall the track
Most of its use will be with a bucket mucking (minimal digging) we have other equipment that does just about any other job you would do with an attachment on a bobcat.
Probably not going Cat, we have a 226 and there is a gap between the cab and the undercarriage that results in cement getting packed into the undercarriage. Even with a skirt this still happens, otherwise we would have just bought a 232.

Contenders so far:
JD 318G, seems like it will do a decent job and my buddy who is an ex Deere service manager said they didn't see many problems.

Gehl 190, on paper makes sense but I've heard from a few people that the gehls are a cheaper machine

Case SV185b, seems like a decent machine on paper. Haven't seen many people using them daily on construction sites even though they are priced right and have decent dealer support around here. Must be a reason.

Kubota SSV65. Don't love that it's taller. We had a rental CAT 236 and somebody managed to bang the ROPs off of low hanging stuff in a week. I imagine the same thing will happen here but otherwise its a good option on paper.

Any others I should consider?

 

[YotaAtieToo]

You sure the new cat has the same gap? Seems like it would be easy to remidy, but sounds like you tried.

What's your go to brand for the other iron on site?

 

[aczlan]

Are you not looking at new bobcats?
Is the old one a S135? Not seeing that, looks like they had a S130 and a S185?

Aaron Z

 

[arse_sidewards]

Does it have to be a skid? Seems like one of those articulated mini-loaders might be better for that kind of environment.

Like this but not Chinesium:

Keyu Promotional High Quality Mild Shovel Soil Digging Work Electric China Mini Wheel Loader - Buy Mini Wheel Loader,China Mini Wheel Loader,Electric Mini Loader Product on Alibaba.com

Keyu Promotional High Quality Mild Shovel Soil Digging Work Electric China Mini Wheel Loader - Buy Mini Wheel Loader,China Mini Wheel Loader,Electric Mini Loader Product on Alibaba.com

www.alibaba.com

 

[speed bump]

You sure the new cat has the same gap? Seems like it would be easy to remidy, but sounds like you tried.

What's your go to brand for the other iron on site?

The 236 we rented a few months ago had the gap. Our 226 is a D (purchased in 18). Pretty much all of our iron is Cat other than our telehandlers and man lifts.

Are you not looking at new bobcats?
Is the old one a S135? Not seeing that, looks like they had a S130 and a S185?


Aaron Z

Your right, it's a 130. I asked for a quote on a 590 but both dealers said Bobcat discontinued it and we would have to go to an S62 which is too tall.

Does it have to be a skid? Seems like one of those articulated mini-loaders might be better for that kind of environment.

Like this but not Chinesium:

Keyu Promotional High Quality Mild Shovel Soil Digging Work Electric China Mini Wheel Loader - Buy Mini Wheel Loader,China Mini Wheel Loader,Electric Mini Loader Product on Alibaba.com

Keyu Promotional High Quality Mild Shovel Soil Digging Work Electric China Mini Wheel Loader - Buy Mini Wheel Loader,China Mini Wheel Loader,Electric Mini Loader Product on Alibaba.com

www.alibaba.com

This needs to have a cab and HVAC for what it's used for and that makes an articulated loader too tall. We looked at probably a dozen options outside a skid steer and size wise what we need is a skid steer.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

The 236 we rented a few months ago had the gap. Our 226 is a D (purchased in 18). Pretty much all of our iron is Cat other than our telehandlers and man lifts.

I'd think keeping brands common would be your best bet. Especially if you like your cat dealer.

Deere makes decent stuff, but I've never seen anyone impressed with their dealers. This is experience from all over CA and now north idaho.

Your right, it's a 130. I asked for a quote on a 590 but both dealers said Bobcat discontinued it and we would have to go to an S62 which is too tall.

I can't say I'd recommend a new bobcat for that application.

This needs to have a cab and HVAC for what it's used for and that makes an articulated loader too tall. We looked at probably a dozen options outside a skid steer and size wise what we need is a skid steer.

Isn't gehl sisters with takahuchi? Or what that mustang, or both?

 

[speed bump]

I'd think keeping brands common would be your best bet. Especially if you like your cat dealer.

Deere makes decent stuff, but I've never seen anyone impressed with their dealers. This is experience from all over CA and now north idaho.



I can't say I'd recommend a new bobcat for that application.



Isn't gehl sisters with takahuchi? Or what that mustang, or both?

The Cat dealer is responsive but they aren't great for anything that isn't big iron which is why we don't own or rent Cat Telehandlers and why I'm willing to skip a Cat skid steer. At the end of the day I doubt anyone would complain to much (other than our mechanics) but if there are better options I'm perfectly happy to change brands.

I think gehl is the same thing as mustang and Manitou. Supposedly of the telehandlers the Manitou is the best but I've never seen one outside of on a trailer on the interstate.

 

[aczlan]

I'd think keeping brands common would be your best bet. Especially if you like your cat dealer.

Makes sense.
CarterKraft any recommendations on the gap issue that speed bump is seeing? Do you guys have some secret sauce that would fit the bill?

Deere makes decent stuff, but I've never seen anyone impressed with their dealers. This is experience from all over CA and now north idaho.

We haven't been thrilled with our Deere dealer (but they are primarily a AG dealer, not a construction dealer (when you have parts sitting at dealership location A with our name on it for 2 weeks and you can't be bothered to bring it to dealership location B, it tends to make you unpopular).

I can't say I'd recommend a new bobcat for that application.

Good to know, I haven't done much with them.

Isn't gehl sisters with takahuchi? Or what that mustang, or both?

IIRC, Gehl sold (sells?) rebranded Tak machines as Gehl and Mustang branded machines.

Aaron Z

 

[aczlan]

The Cat dealer is responsive but they aren't great for anything that isn't big iron which is why we don't own or rent Cat Telehandlers and why I'm willing to skip a Cat skid steer. At the end of the day I doubt anyone would complain to much (other than our mechanics) but if there are better options I'm perfectly happy to change brands.

I think gehl is the same thing as mustang and Manitou. Supposedly of the telehandlers the Manitou is the best but I've never seen one outside of on a trailer on the interstate.

Would a small telehandler work?
Or do you need the "zero turn" capability of a skid steer?
The guys who put up our last building at work had a couple of big JLG telehandlers and a small Genie that would fit most anywhere.

Aaron Z

 

[speed bump]

Would a small telehandler work?
Or do you need the "zero turn" capability of a skid steer?
The guys who put up our last building at work had a couple of big JLG telehandlers and a small Genie that would fit most anywhere.

Aaron Z

As far as I've been as been told telehandlers lives are significantly shortened using them with a bucket a lot. I really want to try a 4-13 sized machine for a kiln floor machine (mucking and handling pallets of bricks rather than using both a skid steer and a forklift but I'm still working on our rental guys to find me one and how well it will do with a pallet of bricks.

I will say we just got a 5-19 genie telehandler and that size is insanely handy. There's a reason why the cheapest one is still usually over $20k.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

The Cat dealer is responsive but they aren't great for anything that isn't big iron which is why we don't own or rent Cat Telehandlers and why I'm willing to skip a Cat skid steer. At the end of the day I doubt anyone would complain to much (other than our mechanics) but if there are better options I'm perfectly happy to change brands.

I've heard that also, when the whole machine costs the same as a single component of a mining truck or loader, it's hard to get priority

I think gehl is the same thing as mustang and Manitou. Supposedly of the telehandlers the Manitou is the best but I've never seen one outside of on a trailer on the interstate.

I've heard guys rave about tak's reliability and ease of maintenance. But man are they terrible to run.

Makes sense.
CarterKraft any recommendations on the gap issue that speed bump is seeing? Do you guys have some secret sauce that would fit the bill?


We haven't been thrilled with our Deere dealer (but they are primarily a AG dealer, not a construction dealer (when you have parts sitting at dealership location A with our name on it for 2 weeks and you can't be bothered to bring it to dealership location B, it tends to make you unpopular).

In CA they were separated. Usually valley tractor was green, and Pape was yellow. No idea where logging shit falling into that

My first company I ran equipment for used 9520 and 9560s to pull scrapers, plug had a Hitachi (sisters with deere) ex and JD skip loader. It was pretty annoying having a service guy out who couldn't plug into a yellow machine or visa versa.

Good to know, I haven't done much with them.

They were bought by doosan and don't seem to hold up well to production type work.

IIRC, Gehl sold (sells?) rebranded Tak machines as Gehl and Mustang branded machines.

Aaron Z

Thats what I thought as well

Would a small telehandler work?
Or do you need the "zero turn" capability of a skid steer?
The guys who put up our last building at work had a couple of big JLG telehandlers and a small Genie that would fit most anywhere.

Aaron Z

Man fuck those little things with a bucket. We have a new 5519 and the curl on the bucket is an over ride button, then pull back on the joy stick. Talk about awkward and super slow. They are kinda cool machines for a forklift, and the ability to have a bucket, but no fucking way I'd buy one with it's main use being a bucket.

It did make the Jcb look weak the other day. Had to deliver a 500g concrete tank. Which I can lift with the 55 mini, but just barely. I figured I'd load it with the jcb and then put the jcb on the trailer behind it. Nope, wouldn't even touch it, like nothing just stalled the hydraulics. That gay little genie did it no problem.

 

[aczlan]

As far as I've been as been told telehandlers lives are significantly shortened using them with a bucket a lot. I really want to try a 4-13 sized machine for a kiln floor machine (mucking and handling pallets of bricks rather than using both a skid steer and a forklift but I'm still working on our rental guys to find me one and how well it will do with a pallet of bricks.

I will say we just got a 5-19 genie telehandler and that size is insanely handy. There's a reason why the cheapest one is still usually over $20k.

Digging a little, it sounds like a lot of the problem is with digging with the boom extended and they aren't made to dig in raw dirt, but they should be ok with "cleanup" of material on hard surfaces (which it sounds like is the intended use case).
From: Anyone use ag telehandlers?

You will find a telehandler to be a very versatile machine. Like skid loaders and ATV/UTVs, you will find uses for the machine you never imagined when you're first buying it. Up-sides, is low profile, long reach, and relatively high weight capacity for the size. But there are down sides; The telescoping boom requires far more maintenance than a loader, the cycle times for lift and dump will be slower, they don't have the break out force of a loader, the booms don't like a lot of twisting and uneven loading, the all around visibility is lesser, and the flotation / traction is lesser as well. If you primarily need a bucket for pushing and loading outdoors, I'd stick to a front end loader or skid steer, it will run circles around a telehandler loading out manure or doing any sort of dirt work. If you need the low profile to get in barns, are pulling silage out of a bunker and need the reach to knock down overhangs, forks to load pallets in trucks, or need a work platform to maintain buildings the telehandler will fit the bill perfectly. As to the type of telehandler, I would look for one with as few boom sections as possible. There are basically two types of telehandlers being made now-days. The construction oriented machines have more reach and higher weight ratings, but have slower cycle times and lesser manueverability. They use multiple boom sections and are a nightmare of chains, wires, and hoses inside the boom. The ag oriented machines are smaller and more maneuverable but use only one telescoping boom section which is far simpler to maintain and gives them much faster hyd funtions at the cost of less reach & lower weight capacity.

From HEF: Operating cost comparison: Telehandler vs. Skidsteer

From my experience, owning both a telehandler and skidsteers, I would say the difference in operating costs between the two for material movement would be negligible. The telehandler is a purpose built machine to move materials around the job site. The skid can do the same but with the obvious limitations. My Gradall and my Bobcats are both fuel sippers compared to the heavy iron. The Gradall has a 40 gal tank and the skids have a 20 or so gallon tank. Run the skid all day toteing materials and you will burn 3/4 or so tank of fuel. The Gradall will run 3-4 days on a tank of fuel. The tires are more expensive on a telehandler but the skids tires wear out alot quicker due to the way the skid operates. Overall the tire cost of a skid is alot higher than that of a telehandler. I will need to replace the original tires on my Gradall this year, it has 3k hours on it. I will also need to replace the original tires on my skid this year, it has 300 hours on it. I have to rotate the tires on the Gradall ever so often, due to the way the steering is set up, to evenly wear the tires. Like Turbo said the biggest maintenance/cost items on a telehandler is the boom and chains. But like any piece of equipment proper maintenance is crucial to get the most life out of the machine. Of course a telehandler is a more expensive purchase than a skid and this may be a factor in the managements decision although not the only factor to consider. I agree with Turbo that the telehandler will be quicker in most situations than the skid. The only reason why we use a skid to move materials around the jobsite is usually due to space confinements. To sum things up: Fuel - wash Tires - telehandler wins Operators wages - same Initial expense - skid wins Versatility and speed placing materials - telehandler wins Longevity/durability - telehandler wins

Aaron Z

 

[speed bump]

That "it can" is what makes me nervous. Even if you tell the operators not to I guarantee this will eventually be misused. We have plenty of forklifts and telehandlers so it just makes sense to stick with a purpose built machine in this application.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

Is that article comparing similar sized forklifts to skid steers? Because the little genie we have isn't any faster than a wheeled skid steer. I also feel like it would never last as long as a good skid steer doing the same type of work, one of the cheapest looking and feeling machine I've been around.

Also, as tiny as it is, it doesn't steer near as sharp as a big one, so no where near as agile as a skid.

 

[Dethmachinefab]

Is that article comparing similar sized forklifts to skid steers? Because the little genie we have isn't any faster than a wheeled skid steer. I also feel like it would never last as long as a good skid steer doing the same type of work, one of the cheapest looking and feeling machine I've been around.

Also, as tiny as it is, it doesn't steer near as sharp as a big one, so no where near as agile as a skid.

I hate the controls, but a mini genie telehandler is way better than a skid for material handling and construction. Can't compare the two even, totally different machines for different jobs.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

I hate the controls, but a mini genie telehandler is way better than a skid for material handling and construction. Can't compare the two even, totally different machines for different jobs.

Materials as in pallets and construction as in building a house? Sure, it's a far better forklift that can also move some sand or gravel around if need be.

But trying to grade a pad or load clay into a dump truck, a good skid steer will run circles around it.

Almost like each one is better at what they're designed for

 

[Dethmachinefab]

Materials as in pallets and construction as in building a house? Sure, it's a far better forklift that can also move some sand or gravel around if need be.

But trying to grade a pad or load clay into a dump truck, a good skid steer will run circles around it.

Almost like each one is better at what they're designed for

Are you arguing or agreeing with me?


I'm saying they are very different, and can't make a comparison between the two.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

Are you arguing or agreeing with me?


I'm saying they are very different, and can't make a comparison between the two.

Depends on what you mean when you say construction.

 

[speed bump]

The more I think about the less I would really want to do bucket work with a telehander. Unless you really like steering wheels they suck controls wise compared to a loader. If you aren't extending the boom your bucket is always in a blind spot which means people are hitting shit on the right side way to often.

 

[Steve300xcw]

We had a bucket for our gradall. It worked for what we needed it for, but it was far from something I would want to be using everyday. Controls were far from smooth

My old man has a lil bobcat telehandler thing. You cant see shit out the side of it unless you have the boom a ways up in the air. His crew has hit alot of shit with that thing

 

[rockota]

Spread 22 ton of rock today to repair our road.

Just about to do final clean up, the 317 pops a “lower seat bar” notice on the screen. Bar is down.

Then lower bar and buckle seatbelt.

At this point, I’m parked diagonally across our road, bucked tipped down in a back drag.

We tried jumping the seatbelt and harness switch - nothing.

Tri-Green equipment service department tried to help over the phone. Called a bunch of techs (it was after 5pm) one of whom called me directly. No easy solution.

So we pushed it off the road with the mini-ex so neighbors could get home.

I can’t seem to find any way to bypass. Any ideas? It’s a late model Deere 317g. Under 1000 hours. Battery recently when dead (left backup camera on). No other symptoms/issues ever.

 

[AlxJ64]

Just about to do final clean up, the 317 pops a “lower seat bar” notice on the screen. Bar is down.

Then lower bar and buckle seatbelt.

I can’t seem to find any way to bypass. Any ideas? It’s a late model Deere 317g. Under 1000 hours. Battery recently when dead (left backup camera on). No other symptoms/issues ever.

Ever get this resolved?
I've been out with a friend looking at machines the past two Friday's and drug him by the dealership my pop's sells for and he is going to do some digging on this. We went by last Friday and there was only an OROPS 317G there and then this past Friday they had prepped a 325G cab machine which is the size class that my friend is looking at buying so of course I am trying to get him to buy from my Dad. I'm also in the Market for a 5T class mini but unless something magical happens, I can't afford a Deere.

On Friday I asked about the belt bar issue and referenced your situation and their service manager said he would dig in and get an answer.

Is your machine still under warranty? I think they are offering a 2 and 4 year warranty agreements on the machines currently.

They are sharp looking machines but Deere is proud of them $$$.

Didn't even bother pricing this 331, as nobody I know has that kind of bank roll.

 

[rockota]

Ever get this resolved?
I've been out with a friend looking at machines the past two Friday's and drug him by the dealership my pop's sells for and he is going to do some digging on this. We went by last Friday and there was only an OROPS 317G there and then this past Friday they had prepped a 325G cab machine which is the size class that my friend is looking at buying so of course I am trying to get him to buy from my Dad. I'm also in the Market for a 5T class mini but unless something magical happens, I can't afford a Deere.

On Friday I asked about the belt bar issue and referenced your situation and their service manager said he would dig in and get an answer.

Is your machine still under warranty? I think they are offering a 2 and 4 year warranty agreements on the machines currently.

They are sharp looking machines but Deere is proud of them $$$.

Didn't even bother pricing this 331, as nobody I know has that kind of bank roll.

It's still at the dealer. I don't think they've even looked at it yet.

I'd go for that 325 in a heartbeat, especially if it's 2-speed and has autoleveling bucket. Those are the only two things I miss... but then, mine was ~$10k cheaper than that 325 when I bought it ~4-ish years ago.

Warranty is a great question. I doubt it. But it was a demo unit, so maybe?

 

[ridenby]

As far as I've been as been told telehandlers lives are significantly shortened using them with a bucket a lot. I really want to try a 4-13 sized machine for a kiln floor machine (mucking and handling pallets of bricks rather than using both a skid steer and a forklift but I'm still working on our rental guys to find me one and how well it will do with a pallet of bricks.

I will say we just got a 5-19 genie telehandler and that size is insanely handy. There's a reason why the cheapest one is still usually over $20k.

Work has two small telehandlers. Both have buckets at times,used to muck,scrap up sand,rock, cement that gets spilled. The guys that use them are pretty hard on them. With forks they unload rebar bundles, move the concrete blocks we make. Blocks are 4000lbs. No idea on rebar. Will get sizes and brands in morning.

 

[ridenby]

 

[YotaAtieToo]

We have the same model genie

It's super handy as a forklift and will lift more than you think. But God damn do the controls suck, even just trying to lower a ~700lb air compressor on a pallet the other day it was not smooth.

With a bucket it sucks, I know that's not what it's meant for, but they could have done a better job with the controls. The big telihandlers I've ran were 10x's better.

 

[Weasel]

Got a few new machines for snow removal.

Avant 775i, Manitou MH420T, and a Deere 331. Deere 204 compact loader showed up last week. All the stock tires and tracks suck for snow. Just stuck the bridgestone snow treads on and huge improvement. We've been running the MuskOx snow blowers and they guys really like them. Still need to upgrade the Manitou and Loader tires. The Avant tires seems to work okay.

Our local RDO/Deere dealer is one of the best in town, service wise.

 

[rockota]

Ever get this resolved?

Got it back yesterday. Corrosion in the wires on the lap bar, corrosion on a couple of grounds, bad battery (I knew that) and the nut on the positive starter terminal had backed off.


Had them do the 1000 hour service while it was there. Runs much better now.

Only complaint I have about the dealer.. service doesn’t deliver.