Pukemaggots
Thundercougarfalconbird
I enjoyed how it was explained on South Park.
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Last Call Guest on these Group Buy Deal Items from Baja Designs
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We're moving data around, images may be off/on over the next few hours. Nothing is lost aaand no ... Nothing will Change Fo2
The mormon stuff thread
- Thread starter Mikel
- Start date
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I just got word Mikel wanted me to lock this thread... apparently he doesn't like the way it turned out,
aczlan
Good Morning!
In what ways do you see the endings as diverging?
A different doctrine such as? What teachings in the Book of Mormon or any of the other books refute what is in the bible?
That would be a sad situation for someone to be in, but that is consistent with anything in the doctrine or church policy unless he was cheating or otherwise not following the standards he agreed to.
I know many people who are divorced and still go the temple regularly (and who did all through their divorce process, the exception being if someone cheated on their spouse or did something similar, then the person who cheated would not be allowed to go to the temple until they repented and brought their life back into line with church standards).
Even so, them having (or not having) a current Temple Recommend, or having their membership privileges suspended (such as for cheating on their spouse) is considered confidential and should not be generally known. The biggest thing would be being asked to not give a prayer in church, take the sacrament, etc if your membership privileges are suspended.
If they are in the Bishopric or another "more responsible" leadership position, there is a good chance that they would be asked to step down until the divorce was over, but that is (at least in part) due to the tendency for there to be mudslinging during a divorce and to avoid the appearance of favoring one side over the other.
As for shunning, the above is not to say that someone who is getting divorced and has mud being slung by their soon to be ex-spouse might not be shunned by the other members who choose to take sides and personally shun them, but how is that any different than any divorce where some people choose one side and others choose another?
Audited? What church did he actually belong to?
In the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints "***hing enough" consists of paying 10% of your "increase" (what you consider "increase" is left to you, some people pay based on their pre-tax income, others post tax, others use complicated formulas, etc but there is no rule saying what it is to be) and declaring "I am a full ***he payer" in once a year (usually in Nov/Dec) to your Bishop and every 2 years (when you renew your Temple Recommend) to the member of your Bishopric (local congregation leader or one of his councilors) and the member of the Stake Presidency (leader over 6-12 congregations or one of his councilors) who you need with.
There is no auditing mechanism to verify that you are telling the truth and no need to bring in anything to prove it.
Now if you dont pay your ***hing there are 3 downsides:
1. You cannot get a Temple Recommend (and thus cannot go to the Temple)
2. You will likely not being considered for some of the leadership positions (ie: Bishopric, organization leader, etc)
3. You will miss out on the blessings mentioned in Malachi for those whop pay their ***hing
Aside from that, what downsides or restrictions are there for you as a member? None.
You are not prohibited from going to any meetings, there isn't a list posted or any way for anyone (outside of the 4-6 people who count ***hing for people who still donate in person) to know how much you donate, or if you donate at all. That is all considered confidential and (in my experience) is kept that way.
Even the Executive Secretary (in charge of scheduling interviews for the Bishop and his councilors) cannot see if someone donated, how much they donated and if they declared themselves to have payed a full ***he or not. All they can see is if someone has a current Temple Recommend.
As for shunning in general, we have friends who have left for one reason or another and we are still friends with them.
As we told them, our friendship is not conditional on their being active members in the church, my wife and several of her friends from church still have "girls nights" or go out to lunch with them every month or so.
Are there those who would shun people who leave or who aren't "good members" unfortunately, yes.
Some of what may feel like shunning is due to a lot of socializing between members happening at church events and if you aren't there, you are out of the loop.
That has gotten better over the years, but as was said in the other thread you will see that with any group (especially when you dont "match" the mono-culture of an area). It is better than it used to be, but there is still room for improvement.
Elder Jeffery R. Holland (one of the current 12 Apostles) said back in 1998:
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/1998/04/come-unto-me?lang=eng said:
Aaron Z
![[486]](https://data.irate4x4.com/avatars/m/0/94.jpg?1700178133){kind=avatar}
[486]
smell-o-vision
aww **** dude, I hope he knows we all love himI just got word Mikel wanted me to lock this thread... apparently he doesn't like the way it turned out,
mostly
Guess I can't speak for everyone.
Especially that flecker guy, continuing the crusades and all
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Well you tell me... Are there 3 levels of Heaven? Will Mormons spend eternity making spirit babies? Will you be a God?
Of course some of the teachings are congruent, but you know very well most are not. Are Jesus Christ and Satan brother? Did God create Jesus, or is Jesus God?
Who goes to hell? Is there a spirit prison? An apostate, are they in hell? Baptism of the dead, what is that? Is the bible the complete and uncorrupted word of God?
We are going to disagree on just about every aspect of Mormonism being related in any way to the bible in any factual or meaningful way. I would commend you for speaking candidly though on the above topics I asked about.
Deleted Member
Guest
Meh... mistaken in ones thinking doesn't mean he isn't loved. Just wrong.aww **** dude, I hope he knows we all love him
mostly
Guess I can't speak for everyone.
Especially that flecker guy, continuing the crusades and all
if that's the case, he should have provided a bit more guiderails to help control traffic
shame on Mikel
There is no link to the Almighty
71PA_Highboy
An Unknown but Engorged Member
Great. Back to 'My ghost story can beat up your ghost story' ... You keep referring to the bible like it is proof of anything other than a bunch of Jews telling stories, then a bunch of early christians telling stories.
Not one of those books you worship is 'The letters of Jesus to the people of [insert city here]' they are all recollections of someone writing a letter to someone else.
How you build a religion on the collective correspondence of bunch of sycophants is beyond me.
Provience
Kill!
what? the proverbs of king soloman aren't the divine and direct word of god shimshelf?
He can always invoke the HGTD and take his lumps.I just got word Mikel wanted me to lock this thread... apparently he doesn't like the way it turned out,
[486]
smell-o-vision
not after pg2He can always invoke the HGTD and take his lumps.
- Thread starter
- #74
I just got word Mikel wanted me to lock this thread... apparently he doesn't like the way it turned out,
Ya gotta have Faith. Or not
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Az Scooter
Red Skull
- Joined
- May 19, 2020
- Messages
- 145
So, just out of curiosity, what are the plagues added on Mormons?
- Thread starter
- #78
Oh there you are...
Why the absence from your own thread?
It's working exactly as intended. Why mess with it?
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Deleted Member
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I would say that the plagues being referred to are primarily those that are described in Revelation 8-9; as well as in Revelation 16; although there are also references to adverse events such as conquest, war, famine, and death in Revelation 6. They will succumb to the wrath of God for their beliefs.
[486]
smell-o-vision
oh so you're a lying **** eh? hahaOh there you are...
Why the absence from your own thread?
Funny thing is the arguing someone is doing here just looks like arrogant egotism from the outside looking in.
Provience
Kill!
honesty hath no place in orthodox christiandom
aczlan
Good Morning!
Post 1/2 due to hitting the character limit:
Before I start with my reply to flecker, I will drop in an overview of what we believe the "overall timeline" is of where we came from before we came to Earth, what we are doing here and where we go after we leave here:
Aaron Z
Before I start with my reply to flecker, I will drop in an overview of what we believe the "overall timeline" is of where we came from before we came to Earth, what we are doing here and where we go after we leave here:
- We believe that we (as spirit children) lived with God in the Premortal Life, there was a council there to decide how to proceed with us being able to get physical bodies and continue to grow past what we could as spirits.
- Jesus and Satan both presented plans there, we dont know the details of either, but the general gist was that:
- Under Jesus's plan we would come to earth, we would get a body, we would be able to make choices (good or bad) and learn and grow from them. Jesus would come down, live a perfect life, die for our sins and make it possible for him to make up for our shortcomings so we could be perfected and return to live with God and Jesus would give the glory to God. Some of us would not make it back, but we would all learn and grow.
- Under Satan's plan we would come to earth, we would be forced to live perfect lives (so we could ALL return to live with God) and Satan would get the glory.
- Jesus's plan was selected, Satan would not go along with it and he was kicked out of Heaven.
- Jesus created the earth with power given to him by God and the fall happened in the Garden of Eden, after that we lost our memory of how things were before we came to Earth
- We are here on Earth to learn and grow
- That includes (hopefully):
- Repenting of things that we have done wrong
- Being baptized
- Receiving the Gift of the Holy Ghost
- Following through to the end
- That includes (hopefully):
- Eventually we will die and our spirits will go the the spirit world to await resurrection
- There, those who did not have a chance to hear of or did not choose to accept Jesus Christ and get baptized here on earth will have a chance to accept him and IF they choose to, accept if/when someone is baptized on their behalf in a Temple. That way ALL how matter WHEN or WHERE they lived will have an equal chance to accept Jesus Christ and get baptized
- Eventually (after the 2nd Coming of Jesus Christ) we will be resurrected and judged on how we lived our life, then assigned to where we will be most comfortable
- Then we live happily ever after
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/pgp/a-of-f/1?lang=eng said:
Aaron Z
aczlan
Good Morning!
Post 2/2 On to flecker and his specific questions:
I believe that even the least of those places will be a LOT better than things are here on earth today.
Beyond that, I believe that baptism and other ordinances are required to enter the highest level (with the glory of God "like the sun") and dwell in the presence of God, but the mechanics of who lives in what mansion and who gets to park their heavenly Beemer, Caddy, Jeep or Truggy in which parking spot is what a friend used to call a "Pearly Gates question" ie: "It doesn't matter if the pearly gates swing up, flop down, swing in, swing out, dissolve, etc as long as they open when it is your turn to go through them"
As children it would be natural that we would one day grow up to become like our heavenly parents, but I do not know what exactly that will entail.
I personally have no interest in lording over my own planet somewhere, so what I will be doing and what "becoming like God" will entail would be another "Pearly Gates question"
They both proposed plans for how life on earth was to be.
Jesus offered to let us make our own choices with him coming to atone for our sins and make up what we lacked if we repented and giving the glory to God his (and our) Father.
Satan proposed making it so that we could ONLY do right and that HE would get the glory.
Satan's plan was rejected and he and the 1/3 of the spirits who followed him would not accept following Jesus's plan and as a result they were cast out and not allowed to gain physical bodies.
That is because this earth life is a time for us to grow and prepare ourselves for greater responsibilities and we cannot do that without experience at making correct choices.
I believe that He and God the Eternal Father are seperate physical beings of flesh and bone, the Holy Ghost or Holy Spirit is the 3rd member of the Godhead, but he does NOT have physical body as his purpose is to bear witness to the other two members of the Godhead.
Short term "Hell between Death and Resurrection" would be Spirit Prison (in the Spirit World), we do not know if it is actually a prison for spirits, or people looking back at their life, what they made of it and what they COULD have made of it, but we believe that they can be freed by accepting Jesus Christ, repenting and accepting someone being baptized for them.
As far as "in the end" (post resurrection), those who will be cast out into "outer darkness" where is no light of the glory of God, I believe that will be a small group of people who received bodies as well as the 1/3 of the spirits who originally followed Satan.
Of the small group who had bodies, it will be people who did not just have faith, but KNEW of a certainty that Jesus is the Christ (as in had a face to face level of interaction with Jesus in his glory and no longer needed faith) but then they rejected him.
That is one of the ordinances that is performed in our Temples.
We also have people who get married for eternity (in person and on behalf of people who were married here on earth) and people who's families are sealed together so they can be together for eternity after they are resurrected.
Again, ordinances such as Baptism, Eternal Marriage and Sealing which are performed here on earth on behalf of those who are dead and the spirits can choose to accept or reject that ordinance.
Freedom of choice is important, that is why we are here following Jesus's plan and not Satan's plan.
As far as it is translated/copied, etc correctly I believe the Bible to be the word of God.
However, there are hundreds of versions of the Bible out there, many of them have been translated/interpreted differently from one to the other, some are missing books that others have, some have additional books that were deemed apocryphal by those putting together other editions and all were compiled by committees with political motivations trying to push the interpretation that most favored their particular brand of Christianity, so it is inevitable that errors (accidental or otherwise) would occur.
Aaron Z
I believe that there are 3 places we will end up after resurrection (as was alluded to in 1 Corinthians 15:41), that the glory of God in them will be "as the sun, the moon and the stars" and that "In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you."
I believe that even the least of those places will be a LOT better than things are here on earth today.
Beyond that, I believe that baptism and other ordinances are required to enter the highest level (with the glory of God "like the sun") and dwell in the presence of God, but the mechanics of who lives in what mansion and who gets to park their heavenly Beemer, Caddy, Jeep or Truggy in which parking spot is what a friend used to call a "Pearly Gates question" ie: "It doesn't matter if the pearly gates swing up, flop down, swing in, swing out, dissolve, etc as long as they open when it is your turn to go through them"
I am not sure how time will be spent post-resurrection, in general given that I believe that we are spiritual children of heavenly parents who are here to get a body and be tested to see how well we follow what gospel knowledge is given to us while we are here on the earth.
As children it would be natural that we would one day grow up to become like our heavenly parents, but I do not know what exactly that will entail.
I personally have no interest in lording over my own planet somewhere, so what I will be doing and what "becoming like God" will entail would be another "Pearly Gates question"
Most teachings I know of are concurrent, many of the ones that aren't are a result of either a political decision made by the various political factions coming up with the bible (and other "what it means to be a Christian" questions in the 100AD-1500ADish time frame), or as a result of mistranslated.
In that as spirits they were bothers and spirit children of God before the earth was formed, yes.
They both proposed plans for how life on earth was to be.
Jesus offered to let us make our own choices with him coming to atone for our sins and make up what we lacked if we repented and giving the glory to God his (and our) Father.
Satan proposed making it so that we could ONLY do right and that HE would get the glory.
Satan's plan was rejected and he and the 1/3 of the spirits who followed him would not accept following Jesus's plan and as a result they were cast out and not allowed to gain physical bodies.
That is because this earth life is a time for us to grow and prepare ourselves for greater responsibilities and we cannot do that without experience at making correct choices.
I believe that Jesus is the spiritual and literal Son of God. He is our Elder Brother and the ONLY person who lived a perfect life and thus the ONLY person who can "make up" for our shortcomings to make us perfect to return and live with God in the end.
I believe that He and God the Eternal Father are seperate physical beings of flesh and bone, the Holy Ghost or Holy Spirit is the 3rd member of the Godhead, but he does NOT have physical body as his purpose is to bear witness to the other two members of the Godhead.
That would depend on how you define hell, hell for one person might be being forced to sit in meetings all day, hell for someone else might be not having their phone, hell for someone else is watching their child make self destructive life choices and not be able to change their mind or their course.
Short term "Hell between Death and Resurrection" would be Spirit Prison (in the Spirit World), we do not know if it is actually a prison for spirits, or people looking back at their life, what they made of it and what they COULD have made of it, but we believe that they can be freed by accepting Jesus Christ, repenting and accepting someone being baptized for them.
As far as "in the end" (post resurrection), those who will be cast out into "outer darkness" where is no light of the glory of God, I believe that will be a small group of people who received bodies as well as the 1/3 of the spirits who originally followed Satan.
Of the small group who had bodies, it will be people who did not just have faith, but KNEW of a certainty that Jesus is the Christ (as in had a face to face level of interaction with Jesus in his glory and no longer needed faith) but then they rejected him.
Not my call to make, would likely depend on the details of their life.
Someone being baptized on behalf of someone who is dead to give their spirit the option to accept it and be freed from their spirit prison.
That is one of the ordinances that is performed in our Temples.
We also have people who get married for eternity (in person and on behalf of people who were married here on earth) and people who's families are sealed together so they can be together for eternity after they are resurrected.
Again, ordinances such as Baptism, Eternal Marriage and Sealing which are performed here on earth on behalf of those who are dead and the spirits can choose to accept or reject that ordinance.
Freedom of choice is important, that is why we are here following Jesus's plan and not Satan's plan.
Which edition/translation/version of the compilation of books known as the Bible are you referring to?
As far as it is translated/copied, etc correctly I believe the Bible to be the word of God.
However, there are hundreds of versions of the Bible out there, many of them have been translated/interpreted differently from one to the other, some are missing books that others have, some have additional books that were deemed apocryphal by those putting together other editions and all were compiled by committees with political motivations trying to push the interpretation that most favored their particular brand of Christianity, so it is inevitable that errors (accidental or otherwise) would occur.
Aaron Z
The OG temple is not too far from me
Kirtland was also the site of an allegedly church related mass murder in 1989
en.wikipedia.org
Kirtland was also the site of an allegedly church related mass murder in 1989
Jeffrey Lundgren - Wikipedia
aczlan
Good Morning!
Been there, took the tour a few years back.
Nope, he was a member of the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints which split off of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints back in 1860.Kirtland was also the site of an allegedly church related mass murder in 1989
Jeffrey Lundgren - Wikipedia
Aaron Z
Eric
RIP 10/6/22
Well . . . if his goal was to trigger some Karen's then it seems to have worked out ok. . . .
Provience
Kill!
so, literally (for whoever it was that needed those wordsDon't make this any harder for me than it needs to be, I'm trying not to write a scathing 1500 word paper for college and taking a break
) it took about half the day, but I managed to read a whole damn bunch and wrote just a hair over 2,000 words. all of it, and I mean ALL of it was entirely to make the joke about Ukraine being neo-nazis with their azvozs regiment
why? because of the prompt "consider the modern day implications of balkanization of the 1990's, especially the impact of white nationalism in the west" tucked in there with a bunch of other stuff. just a tiny hunch that the person who grades this is wearing a blue and yellow scarf pin as they sip cold brew coffee between double maskings and virtual meetings to check in on their "brown" friends.
this is also the useless things about my day thread
2big bronco
Og irate
So from a morman.... is there anything in the southpark episode that isnt true? I like that version