The mormon stuff thread

[grumpy356]

What makes a prophet false? The actions or the words or simply if you disagree? Mormon wars aside, followers of the latter day saints are a far cry from ravenous wolves on the souls of man. What they've been revealed in the additional text is a message of preparedness and guidance on brotherhood. This transfers into real world skills far better than whatever passes for christiandom to most people of the latest funny hat at the Vatican seeking to control your life and livelihood

It’s my understanding that the LDS president is addressed as the Prophet

Well if it’s someone you pick and there are a pool to pick from…… chances are…. It’s a FALSE prophet.

 

[grandeyota]

 

[Filthy McChevy]

I s it true that Mormon leaders at the various local levels are volunteers and don't get paid to do it and at the high levels there is a set salary, and it's because they left their careers? So there are no Jim and Tammy Fay Bakers(sp)?

 

[Chevy_man]

In what ways do you see the endings as diverging?


A different doctrine such as? What teachings in the Book of Mormon or any of the other books refute what is in the bible?


That would be a sad situation for someone to be in, but that is consistent with anything in the doctrine or church policy unless he was cheating or otherwise not following the standards he agreed to.
I know many people who are divorced and still go the temple regularly (and who did all through their divorce process, the exception being if someone cheated on their spouse or did something similar, then the person who cheated would not be allowed to go to the temple until they repented and brought their life back into line with church standards).
Even so, them having (or not having) a current Temple Recommend, or having their membership privileges suspended (such as for cheating on their spouse) is considered confidential and should not be generally known. The biggest thing would be being asked to not give a prayer in church, take the sacrament, etc if your membership privileges are suspended.

If they are in the Bishopric or another "more responsible" leadership position, there is a good chance that they would be asked to step down until the divorce was over, but that is (at least in part) due to the tendency for there to be mudslinging during a divorce and to avoid the appearance of favoring one side over the other.

As for shunning, the above is not to say that someone who is getting divorced and has mud being slung by their soon to be ex-spouse might not be shunned by the other members who choose to take sides and personally shun them, but how is that any different than any divorce where some people choose one side and others choose another?


Audited? What church did he actually belong to?
In the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints "tithing enough" consists of paying 10% of your "increase" (what you consider "increase" is left to you, some people pay based on their pre-tax income, others post tax, others use complicated formulas, etc but there is no rule saying what it is to be) and declaring "I am a full tithe payer" in once a year (usually in Nov/Dec) to your Bishop and every 2 years (when you renew your Temple Recommend) to the member of your Bishopric (local congregation leader or one of his councilors) and the member of the Stake Presidency (leader over 6-12 congregations or one of his councilors) who you need with.
There is no auditing mechanism to verify that you are telling the truth and no need to bring in anything to prove it.

Now if you dont pay your tithing there are 3 downsides:
1. You cannot get a Temple Recommend (and thus cannot go to the Temple)
2. You will likely not being considered for some of the leadership positions (ie: Bishopric, organization leader, etc)
3. You will miss out on the blessings mentioned in Malachi for those whop pay their tithing
Aside from that, what downsides or restrictions are there for you as a member? None.
You are not prohibited from going to any meetings, there isn't a list posted or any way for anyone (outside of the 4-6 people who count tithing for people who still donate in person) to know how much you donate, or if you donate at all. That is all considered confidential and (in my experience) is kept that way.
Even the Executive Secretary (in charge of scheduling interviews for the Bishop and his councilors) cannot see if someone donated, how much they donated and if they declared themselves to have payed a full tithe or not. All they can see is if someone has a current Temple Recommend.

As for shunning in general, we have friends who have left for one reason or another and we are still friends with them.
As we told them, our friendship is not conditional on their being active members in the church, my wife and several of her friends from church still have "girls nights" or go out to lunch with them every month or so.
Are there those who would shun people who leave or who aren't "good members" unfortunately, yes.
Some of what may feel like shunning is due to a lot of socializing between members happening at church events and if you aren't there, you are out of the loop.
That has gotten better over the years, but as was said in the other thread you will see that with any group (especially when you dont "match" the mono-culture of an area). It is better than it used to be, but there is still room for improvement.

Elder Jeffery R. Holland (one of the current 12 Apostles) said back in 1998:


Aaron Z

As always, people in position will abuse power. Sounds like these guys are in a real shitty temple.



Either way, all organized religion has been corrupted.

I believe some dude that says he's a prophet just as much as I believe our government actually cares about individual citizens.

 

[Chkn]

I s it true that Mormon leaders at the various local levels are volunteers and don't get paid to do it and at the high levels there is a set salary, and it's because they left their careers? So there are no Jim and Tammy Fay Bakers(sp)?

Correct. There are no paid clergy. All work is on a volunteer basis.

 

[aczlan]

So from a morman.... is there anything in the southpark episode that isnt true? I like that version

Lets see:
Told him to start his own church - Nope, he was told that none of them were true, it wasn't until later (after he was partway through translating the Book of Mormon) that he was told to restore the Church Joseph Smith—History 1

No one else saw the plates - A group of 3 people and a group of 8 people saw and/or handled them and while some of them later left the church (and were very opposed to Joseph Smith), they maintained till they died that they had seen/touched the plates and heard a voice telling them that the translation was correct, see: Testimony of Three Witnesses and Testimony of Eight Witnesses

Re-translating the lost pages - There had been attempts to steal the manuscript and print parts of it (sometimes misprinted and or parodied) by a newspaper who also used the same printing press and the reason for not re-translating them was so that they could alter what they had an claim that he couldn't translate the same thing twice

Martin Harris reportedly took some of the copied characters and a translation to a professor in NYC who (Harris) said confirmed that they were Egyptian in origin and returned no longer skeptical about the translation.

Angel Moroni was white - Nope again, he said that his robes were white and that his "whole person was glorious beyond description, and his countenance was truly like lightening" Joseph Smith—History 1

Dug around the Hill Cumorah till he stumbled across the plates - Nope again "I left the field, and went to the place where the messenger had told me the plates were deposited; and owing to the distinctness of the vision which I had had concerning it, I knew the place the instant that I arrived there." Joseph Smith—History 1

Beyond that, when he went to go get the plates Moroni wouldn't let him take them and he had to come back every year for 4 years for instruction before he was allowed to get them: "I made an attempt to take them out, but was forbidden by the messenger, and was again informed that the time for bringing them forth had not yet arrived, neither would it, until four years from that time; but he told me that I should come to that place precisely in one year from that time, and that he would there meet with me, and that I should continue to do so until the time should come for obtaining the plates." Joseph Smith—History 1

All in all, like much of South Park, its a parody that is very loosely based in facts.

Timeline:
First vision: 1820 @14YO
Moroni appears: 1823 @17yo
Gets plates: Sep 1827 @21yo
Translated 116 pages that Martin Harris lost: 12 April to 14 June 1828
Translated the 531 pages that make up the Book of Mormon: 7 April and 30 June 1829 (65 or fewer days of which could have been spent translating based on everything else they had going on)
3 and 8 Witnesses see/touch the plates: Jun 1829

Note that Joseph Smith reportedly had about a 4th grade education and his wife said that he could not write or dictate a well worded letter, but he was reportedly translating 8 pages a day smoothly and would pick up right where he left off after stopping for a break.

I s it true that Mormon leaders at the various local levels are volunteers and don't get paid to do it and at the high levels there is a set salary, and it's because they left their careers? So there are no Jim and Tammy Fay Bakers(sp)?

Correct, local (Bishop, Stake President and everyone at that level) does not get paid, they put in a lot of hours making things happen (Sunday 6:30AM-2PM is not uncommon for a Bishop, plus Tuesday and Thursday nights 7PM-8:30PM and whenever else people call needing to talk to you).
Financially, everything is double checked (2 people handle all donations and must sign off on all checks), plus there are yearly audits from the Stake to the Ward and from the Area to the Stake.

Once you get to the General Authority 70 (which is usually Area Presidents (ie: Northeast, Southeast, Midwest, Southamerica South, Africa, etc) I believe that they get a stipend as are asked to resign from their jobs and work for the church full time (as do Mission Presidents who serve for a 3 year term being in charge of a couple hundred 18-25 year olds).
However most people at that level tend to have been leaders in their industry of some sort, to pick from those somewhat recently called: lawyers, doctors, airline chief pilot, investment advisers, university presidents, medical director of health care systems, commercial real estate managers, forensic accountants, manager of the Church’s Family History Department, CEOs of various companies, so they likely dont need much help to support them financially.

Aaron Z

 

[Deleted Member]

I have noticed a trend in every cult that spins off the biblical text... ALL of them try to diminish Jesus. Jesus is God. Not a spirit baby, not a brother to us. He's God.

And there in lies the debacle of Mormon faith. It preaches a different Jesus than the bible and gospel.

Jehovah Witnesses say he's merely an angel... David Koresh actually taught he was Christ.

You see where this is going?

 

[aczlan]

As always, people in position will abuse power. Sounds like these guys are in a real shitty temple.

Or it was a splinter group, that would not surprise me from what I have heard from people who left splinter groups in the hinterlands of Utah and Colorado.
I know people all over the world who have been or are in the church including people who have been in Area leadership and I have NEVER heard of someone being asked to prove that they had donated 10% of their income, its always a self certification that your donations were 10% and verifying that your records match the Church records at the end of the year.
If you dont mind telling me where he was located and when it happened I could ask around.

Either way, all organized religion has been corrupted.

Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely, hence why Bishops and Stake Presidents have checks and balances serve 3-5 year terms and then are released and someone else takes their place.

I believe some dude that says he's a prophet just as much as I believe our government actually cares about individual citizens.

I agree on the 2nd half, on the first half, we will have to disagree in this case.
I have done as James invited in James 1:5 and asked to know and I received a confirmation that Russell M. Nelson was to be the next Prophet and President of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.


Aaron Z

 

[subybaja]

It's working exactly as intended. Why mess with it?

Yep, got all the blabbermouths out of the MORR Youtube thread. Brilliant!

Just like Mchat's stinky bait thread: Bible Prophecy - Nonbeliever's Playground

 

[2big bronco]

Lets see:
Told him to start his own church - Nope, he was told that none of them were true, it wasn't until later (after he was partway through translating the Book of Mormon) that he was told to restore the Church Joseph Smith—History 1

No one else saw the plates - A group of 3 people and a group of 8 people saw and/or handled them and while some of them later left the church (and were very opposed to Joseph Smith), they maintained till they died that they had seen/touched the plates and heard a voice telling them that the translation was correct, see: Testimony of Three Witnesses and Testimony of Eight Witnesses

Re-translating the lost pages - There had been attempts to steal the manuscript and print parts of it (sometimes misprinted and or parodied) by a newspaper who also used the same printing press and the reason for not re-translating them was so that they could alter what they had an claim that he couldn't translate the same thing twice

Martin Harris reportedly took some of the copied characters and a translation to a professor in NYC who (Harris) said confirmed that they were Egyptian in origin and returned no longer skeptical about the translation.

Angel Moroni was white - Nope again, he said that his robes were white and that his "whole person was glorious beyond description, and his countenance was truly like lightening" Joseph Smith—History 1

Dug around the Hill Cumorah till he stumbled across the plates - Nope again "I left the field, and went to the place where the messenger had told me the plates were deposited; and owing to the distinctness of the vision which I had had concerning it, I knew the place the instant that I arrived there." Joseph Smith—History 1

Beyond that, when he went to go get the plates Moroni wouldn't let him take them and he had to come back every year for 4 years for instruction before he was allowed to get them: "I made an attempt to take them out, but was forbidden by the messenger, and was again informed that the time for bringing them forth had not yet arrived, neither would it, until four years from that time; but he told me that I should come to that place precisely in one year from that time, and that he would there meet with me, and that I should continue to do so until the time should come for obtaining the plates." Joseph Smith—History 1

All in all, like much of South Park, its a parody that is very loosely based in facts.

Timeline:
First vision: 1820 @14YO
Moroni appears: 1823 @17yo
Gets plates: Sep 1827 @21yo
Translated 116 pages that Martin Harris lost: 12 April to 14 June 1828
Translated the 531 pages that make up the Book of Mormon: 7 April and 30 June 1829 (65 or fewer days of which could have been spent translating based on everything else they had going on)
3 and 8 Witnesses see/touch the plates: Jun 1829

Note that Joseph Smith reportedly had about a 4th grade education and his wife said that he could not write or dictate a well worded letter, but he was reportedly translating 8 pages a day smoothly and would pick up right where he left off after stopping for a break.


Correct, local (Bishop, Stake President and everyone at that level) does not get paid, they put in a lot of hours making things happen (Sunday 6:30AM-2PM is not uncommon for a Bishop, plus Tuesday and Thursday nights 7PM-8:30PM and whenever else people call needing to talk to you).
Financially, everything is double checked (2 people handle all donations and must sign off on all checks), plus there are yearly audits from the Stake to the Ward and from the Area to the Stake.

Once you get to the General Authority 70 (which is usually Area Presidents (ie: Northeast, Southeast, Midwest, Southamerica South, Africa, etc) I believe that they get a stipend as are asked to resign from their jobs and work for the church full time (as do Mission Presidents who serve for a 3 year term being in charge of a couple hundred 18-25 year olds).
However most people at that level tend to have been leaders in their industry of some sort, to pick from those somewhat recently called: lawyers, doctors, airline chief pilot, investment advisers, university presidents, medical director of health care systems, commercial real estate managers, forensic accountants, manager of the Church’s Family History Department, CEOs of various companies, so they likely dont need much help to support them financially.

Aaron Z

Thanks for the well tought out/ written responce. I was just telling my wife how I like these threads because even though I may not agree with them (and think you guys are half crazy) Im still learning something from people who will take the timw to explain.


Just curious, what led you to this religion and deciding or knowing this was the way?

 

[aczlan]

I have noticed a trend in every cult that spins off the biblical text... ALL of them try to diminish Jesus. Jesus is God. Not a spirit baby, not a brother to us. He's God.
And there in lies the debacle of Mormon faith. It preaches a different Jesus than the bible and gospel.

How do you reconcile that belief with the numerous references to Jesus Christ being the Son of God in the Bible? Is GOt talking about himself in 3rd person? Did he beget himself?
A few:
Mark 1:1 The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God
John 3:16-18
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
John 11:4 When Jesus heard that, he said, This sickness is not unto death, but for the glory of God, that the Son of God might be glorified thereby.
John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
1 John 5:11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

If Jesus (the Son of God), God (The Father) and the Holy Ghost are all one physical, but not physical, knowable, but unknowable being, why do Matthew Mark and Luke all specifically mention:

• Jesus Christ, the Son of God the being getting baptized (dunked, not sprinkled mind you) "to fulfill all righteousness"
• The Holy Ghost descending like a dove and resting on the shoulder of Jesus
• God the Father speaking from Heaven, calling Jesus Christ his Beloved Son in whom He is well pleased

Why would it be done that way if they are all part of one being and if the writers of the Gospels understood it that way, they did they write it as if they were separate beings? With each of being named separately by the writer of each book?

In our belief, those who put together the Nicean Creeds were very much wrong.

We believe that before coming to earth Jesus Christ the greatest spirit in the council in Heaven and that this world is in his hands, God has delegated to him authority to do with the world and its inhabitants as he will.

flecker I have answered a bunch your questions, please answer mine on which edition of the Bible you consider to be accurate and why.
Also, what are your thoughts on the state of those who did NOT have an opportunity to hear of Jesus Christ and be baptized while alive? Are they to be cast off, treated separately (making God a respecter of persons), or?

Aaron Z

 

[dave_dj1]

TLDR, any pics of their women?

 

[flexy flatty]

They also didn't allow caffeine, but then they acquired PEPSI and behold! It was accepted.

The confusion about caffeine comes from a misinterpretation of the original text which bans “hot drink” and was then extrapolated by people to mean caffeine because of the caffeine content of coffee and tea. There is no actual scripture that forbids caffeine. There’s a lot of wild stuff but it’s important to be accurate when you choose to play the “my religion is right and yours is wrong” game.

 

[Stuck]

False prophets appear all the time as well... and we are told to be vigilant. Aren't we?

Mathew 7:15

"Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves."

The book of Mormon is a completely different gospel... in fact it isn't even a gospel at all. It's a fabrication written by a man who wanted to fulfil his desires to have power, bang little girls, have multiple wives and be his own God. It just isn't truthful. It's an outright lie.

News for you. All of the books were nothing but men trying to control other men and tell people how to live. What makes the old testament, or the new testament any more believable than joe smiths book? For the record I think mormons are nuts so Im not trying to say its believable. All religions have been corrupted through time and rewritten to control its followers. Unless youre reading the books of the bible in their native toungue on the original pacrchments as written by thier authors. Your reading someone elses translation both in language and meaning.

 

[Stuck]

Answering it truthfully only means you are honest about it. Nothing else.

I follow the word of God, as it's written in the only 66 books of the bible. I am being honest and up front with my beliefs, why can't you?

The only 66 books? What about the others that were left out when the St james version you follow was written? Or the ones left out in the writing before that?

 

[Wheelin66bronco]

I have noticed a trend in every cult that spins off the biblical text... ALL of them try to diminish Jesus. Jesus is God. Not a spirit baby, not a brother to us. He's God.

And there in lies the debacle of Mormon faith. It preaches a different Jesus than the bible and gospel.

Jehovah Witnesses say he's merely an angel... David Koresh actually taught he was Christ.

You see where this is going?

Eventually all the believers will realize it's all just make believe? That we as humans crave the thought of having a "higher power" over us?
Jesus was a dude, just like the rest of us. Jesus was a martyr, not for his religion, as a patriot against his government.

 

[Wheelin66bronco]

I went to the mormon temple a few times.(NC) everybody seemed pretty nice, their women folks are smoking hot.of course they want to convert you, but i can get along to eat for free, and learn about people different than me. How i ended up going, was these two young dudes were biking around my hood, mid- august. I hear em up by the stop sign talking about needing water, theyre kinda out a ways, wearing those suits. Im a friendly neighbor, so i got em water, we ended up chewing the fat. They were nice, im still in touch with one dude, 5 years later. Hes in a masters program at BYU currently.

Theres negative things you can say about any group of people, so heres some positive ones, from my experience-
Mormons tend to have a strong work ethic, very community minded, big on putting up supplies for the end of the world as we know it, very helpful, polite, have good manners. They also know all about their own religion, and have studied it to some degree.

Those of you who believe in a sky fairy are in no position to judge or hate on anyone elses sky fairy. We created god for some feeling of certainty because some of us know what a really crazy/scary place the world is. Nobodys got IT. I dont, nobody else does, anywhere. Also, the idea that we are born sinners has got to be the worst idea of all time.

Im always open to suggestions, but ive found when folks say, this is it, this is THE truth, period, thats kinda closing yourself off to all the possibilties which are pretty endless. Have at it though, hike yer own hike, long as youre happy about it.

Well said.
I also have had similar interactions with my local Mormon brethren. About 75% of my neighbors in my little community are LDS, they're great neighbors.

 

[Squamch]

Great. Back to 'My ghost story can beat up your ghost story' ... You keep referring to the bible like it is proof of anything other than a bunch of Jews telling stories, then a bunch of early christians telling stories.

Not one of those books you worship is 'The letters of Jesus to the people of [insert city here]' they are all recollections of someone writing a letter to someone else.

How you build a religion on the collective correspondence of bunch of sycophants is beyond me.

Amen.

 

[TreeClimber]

Interesting thread. Buy you a beer?

 

[aczlan]

Thanks for the well tought out/ written responce. I was just telling my wife how I like these threads because even though I may not agree with them (and think you guys are half crazy) Im still learning something from people who will take the timw to explain.


Just curious, what led you to this religion and deciding or knowing this was the way?

Parents joined as young adults, then met and got married, so I was raised in it, but I had to find out for myself if it was true and spent a fair amount of time looking at other religions and comparing them before deciding to stay (and to sign up for 2 years as a missionary).

Aaron Z

 

[Deleted Member]

How do you reconcile that belief with the numerous references to Jesus Christ being the Son of God in the Bible? Is GOt talking about himself in 3rd person? Did he beget himself?

He did.. Jesus is the lamb of God. God in human form to bridge the gap between man and God. Making him less than takes away his work on the cross to die for our sins. Son of God? Yeah. Is Jesus God? Yes. The "I AM".

A few:
Mark 1:1 The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God
John 3:16-18
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
John 11:4 When Jesus heard that, he said, This sickness is not unto death, but for the glory of God, that the Son of God might be glorified thereby.
John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
1 John 5:11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

And some more here that say Jesus is God, the son of God, the lamb, God in the flesh, The great I AM.

1. John 10:30 “The Father and I are one.”

2. Philippians 2:5-6 “You must have the same attitude that Christ Jesus had. Though he was God, he did not think of equality with God as something to cling to.”

3. John 17:21 “That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.”

4. John 1:18 “No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.“

5. Colossians 2:9-10 “For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily. and in Christ you have been brought to fullness. He is the head over every power and authority.“

6. John 10:33 “We are not stoning you for any good work,” they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.“

7. John 5:18 “This was why the Jews were seeking all the more to kill him, because not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.“

8. John 1:1 “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.“

9. John 1:14 “And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.“

10. 1 John 5:20 “And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true; and we are in him who is true, in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.“

11. Romans 10:13 For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

12. John 8:57-58 “The people said, “You aren’t even fifty years old. How can you say you have seen Abraham?” Jesus answered, “I tell you the truth, before Abraham was even born, I Am!”

13. John 8:22-24 “This made the Jews ask, “Will he kill himself? Is that why he says, ‘Where I go, you cannot come’?” But he continued, “You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world. 24 I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am he, you will indeed die in your sins.”

14. John 13:18-19 “I am not referring to all of you; I know those I have chosen. But this is to fulfill this passage of Scripture: ‘He who shared my bread has turned against me.’ “I am telling you now before it happens, so that when it does happen you will believe that I am who I am.

15. Isaiah 44:6 “Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts: “I am the first and I am the last; besides me there is no god.”

16. 1 Corinthians 8:6 “Yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.”

17. Revelation 2:8 “And to the angel of the church in Smyrna write: ‘The words of the first and the last, who died and came to life.“

18. Revelation 1:17-18 “When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. But he laid his right hand on me, saying, “Fear not, I am the first and the last, and the living one. I died, and behold I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of Death and Hades.“

19. Matthew 2:1-2 “After Jesus was born in Bethlehem in Judea, during the time of King Herod, Magi from the east came to Jerusalem and asked, “Where is the one who has been born king of the Jews? We saw his star when it rose and have come to worship him.”

20. Matthew 28:8-9 “So the women hurried away from the tomb, afraid yet filled with joy, and ran to tell his disciples. Suddenly Jesus met them. “Greetings,” he said. They came to him, clasped his feet and worshiped him.“

21. Acts 7:59-60 “And as they were stoning Stephen, he called out, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.” And falling to his knees he cried out with a loud voice, “Lord, do not hold this sin against them.” And when he had said this, he fell asleep.“

If Jesus (the Son of God), God (The Father) and the Holy Ghost are all one physical, but not physical, knowable, but unknowable being, why do Matthew Mark and Luke all specifically mention:

• Jesus Christ, the Son of God the being getting baptized (dunked, not sprinkled mind you) "to fulfill all righteousness"

He was God born of Mary as Jesus Christ... God in the flesh, so we could know him and have a relationship. Born as a sacrifice for our sins, the lamb of God. Who is God.

• The Holy Ghost descending like a dove and resting on the shoulder of Jesus

It's a great example of the holy spirit dwelling in us also...

• God the Father speaking from Heaven, calling Jesus Christ his Beloved Son in whom He is well pleased

Yes. He was God, in the flesh, born to be sacrificed for our sins. Isaiah said he would come from the branch of the root of Jesse for just that purpose. We can do no other work to gain anything. All the work has been done. Don't live in legalism.

Why would it be done that way if they are all part of one being and if the writers of the Gospels understood it that way, they did they write it as if they were separate beings? With each of being named separately by the writer of each book?

I wrote 20 + passages above. Check them out.

In our belief, those who put together the Nicean Creeds were very much wrong.

So again we seem to be picking apart which scriptures are translated, how and what ones are greater... Why? The context and scripture of the bible are pretty straight forward. Yes, you see a different word used occasionally. Yes, the translations from the original Greek, Aramaic and Hebrew have been accurate and the context is on point. Where is the book of Nehi, as an example in the original greek or Egyptian? Can I see them? Mosiah?

Of course the Nicean council was mistaken in Mormon beliefs... the transcripts you study weren't even available for them to see. Why would they have been considered?

We believe that before coming to earth Jesus Christ the greatest spirit in the council in Heaven and that this world is in his hands, God has delegated to him authority to do with the world and its inhabitants as he will.

Ok.

flecker I have answered a bunch your questions, please answer mine on which edition of the Bible you consider to be accurate and why.
Also, what are your thoughts on the state of those who did NOT have an opportunity to hear of Jesus Christ and be baptized while alive? Are they to be cast off, treated separately (making God a respecter of persons), or?

Aaron Z

In answer to the last question, I think they will be judged on what they know... Paul said in Romans even the creation speaks of God. There are some who hadn't heard of Christ, and I agree they will be judged on what they know. Baptism isn't necessary for salvation. Just accepting who he is and what he did is enough. The guy who died on the cross next to Jesus wasn't baptized. He just believed him. That's all.

I answered your questions best I could... I asked quite a few questions up front in this thread. I will repeat them though now, they seem to have been glossed over.

Pearl of Great Price?
Kolob?
Does God have sex and create spirit babies? Who's the mom?
Will some Mormons become a God and spend eternity making spirit babies also?
Is hell hard to get in to? Why?
What are the 3 levels of heaven taught in Mormon faith?

 

[Deleted Member]

Interesting side note... I love history. It's a hobby of mine, and I enjoy looking at different aspects of it. Even the way it relates to various religions.

I caught a tv show the other night on HULU. Called "Under the banner of heaven", it had some rather unique historical tid bits on Mormon culture and it's founding I thought were kind of fascinating. I did some research after and oddly enough, it's pretty dang accurate.

Check it out. It's a murder mystery show, but it's interesting.

 

[RusM]

TLDR, any pics of their women?

 

[Stuck]

Ehhh. They only ever advertise and photo the hot ones. I lived in SLC for a brief time. Theres plenty of ugly LDS women. FWIW LDS women are just as easy theyre just better at hiding it.

 

[Scott Cee aka 2drx4]

Ehhh. They only ever advertise and photo the hot ones. I lived in SLC for a brief time. Theres plenty of ugly LDS women. FWIW LDS women are just as easy theyre just better at hiding it.

They all take it in the butt too, like the Catholics?

 

[Deleted Member]

"Under the banner of heaven" is also a book by Jon Krakauer about how fucked mormons are and focuses on green river utah where theres still polygamy. Good read. Same author wrote into the wild and into thin air.

Yah I hadn't read the book... I did read Into the Wild though, good author.

 

[TRINDU]

Who pays for these guys to bother the same houses every year?

 

[RusM]

Who pays for these guys to bother the same houses every year?

They pay for it themselves is my understanding.

 

[Deleted Member]

Still waiting on aczlan to answer some Q's I had above... until then here's some historical tidbits. Happy reading!

https://groups.google.com/g/alt.religion.mormon/c/ZmsnOdvK9ic

 

[71PA_Highboy]

why the fuck should he waste his time on an arrogant self-righteous fuck like you.

You are the reason so many people HATE Christiandom. Your Holier than thou attitude and your belief that only you know the truth.

Fuck, you are such a hypocrite in this thread alone that I cannot believe you are able to live with yourself.

You call out others for not answering your questions, but you haven't even responded to any that I have posed to you.... but that is now your MO I guess.

'Judge not lest ye be judged' obviously only applies to anyone that disagrees with you.

Your jesus-junkie attitude makes me want to hang out the Satanists, meth heads, crack whores and some of the more reasonable folks here to get the taste of the 'holier than thou' attitude mixed with 'jesus jizz' that your spewing out of my mouth.

Fuck, with people like you on the other side I am happy to go all Allah Ahkbar on Christians and think I am doing the world a favor.

Damn, I fucking hate people with attitudes like yours more than almost anything else in the world.

I am sure my torture in hell is going to having to put up with people like you.