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The 4xFordYota Franken-Fine Axles!

rockota said:
FRORF's long-discontinued steering box brace (that went side to side) should have been mandatory on all (leaf-sprung) SAS's, IMHO.


My 88 cracked behind the body mount... somewhere are pics of the flat plate we added on the bottom of the frame that triangulated the rail to the crossmember.
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This right here is why I did the frame chop, front shackles and spent 2 weeks building my steering box mount. Seeing all my friends constantly welding up steering box mounts, spring hangars and frame rails looked like it brought the suck. I avoided all that, now the ass end of my truck is trying to rip itself off :lmao:
 
Slander said:
This right here is why I did the frame chop, front shackles and spent 2 weeks building my steering box mount. Seeing all my friends constantly welding up steering box mounts, spring hangars and frame rails looked like it brought the suck. I avoided all that, now the ass end of my truck is trying to rip itself off :lmao:
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insert Maury Povich Meme for the highlighted. :flipoff2:

the extra crossmember that comes with the All-Pro 3-link seems to help as well.
 
4x4toyotatyler said:
Update time! I did a bunch of calling around Friday... you are correct spidertrax does not fit the 05+ SD unit bearings
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I know. It's pretty common knowledge actually.
Extensive research has been done on the 05+ stuff, both on the old board and here.

4x4toyotatyler said:
So I called Reid and talked with them about their super kingpins and then Wilwood to find some brakes and rotors that would work with 05+ SD unit bearings in a 17" wheel, and they pretty much don't have any brake hats for that application (either that or the people I talked to should be fired or put back into training since one person didn't even know what a unit bearing was).
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You didn't call the right people it seems.
The Reid knuckles are a much better design than the magnum and super lightweight brakes are available for them too, from at least a couple of vendors.
 
I get building in overkill, but I don't see how the 99-04 stuff isn't good enough for a trail rig when Currie, spider Trax, dynatrac, ect has been running them for years and years. If you're worried about wieght, then I wouldn't go with giant Rock bouncer outters.

Spidertrax outters with currier UB and yukon locking hubs will be your best imo.
 
YotaAtieToo said:
I get building in overkill, but I don't see how the 99-04 stuff isn't good enough for a trail rig when Currie, spider Trax, dynatrac, ect has been running them for years and years. If you're worried about wieght, then I wouldn't go with giant Rock bouncer outters.

Spidertrax outters with currier UB and yukon locking hubs will be your best imo.
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Most of the dynatrac and currie knuckles are based off the the spindle mount 1992-1997 Ford F series Dana 60's. Still ball joint but optioned without unit bearings ( pre 1991 Dana 60 spindles ) in either 8x6.5 or 8x170mm. Stronger but still not as strong as a oem 05+ super duty knuckle. Plus the Dana 50 unit bearings have to be modified ( honed out ) to run 35spline stub shafts. It makes the center of the unit bearing weaker for running 38-40in tires. It's all doable just not worth it in most people's opinion.

I run Dana 50's in all kinds of vehicles if that is what the budget can afford but not worth it when building a complete axle from scratch.
 
4x4toyotatyler said:
Update time! I did a bunch of calling around Friday... you are correct spidertrax does not fit the 05+ SD unit bearings and they refuse to make selectable hubs.

I also found out that TGs 99-04 unit bearings are pretty much the oem Ford design that had a lot of issues with the spindles heating up and blowing the bearings prematurely. Spidertrax redesigns the spindle in them with a heat treated chromo spindle and stub nose fwiw.

So I called Reid and talked with them about their super kingpins and then Wilwood to find some brakes and rotors that would work with 05+ SD unit bearings in a 17" wheel, and they pretty much don't have any brake hats for that application (either that or the people I talked to should be fired or put back into training since one person didn't even know what a unit bearing was).

Then I stumbled on Crane Axles... (que holy music from the sky). Called and talked with them and that's the way I'm going now. Crane magnum knuckle kit, with their light weight front brake kit (for front and rear), and rear UB cups. The Crane outers will work with the electric parking brake calipers from Wilwood (Ill just need to make a bracket) and allow me to run 1550 u joints or rcv super bell if I want. Plus, they have some massive chromolly Cs with some pretty sweet keyed steer arms, so it should be pretty easy to make a double sheer setup.

I'll probably be going with Yukon UBs and hubs, but still waiting to hear back from Mile Marker on their hubs.

Full steam ahead! Edited the first 2 posts of this thread with the final plan and parts list, mainly to help me keep track of this shit show.
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What's up Tyler!

Another option to look at also talk to Devin Watson with Innovation machining services. They just released there all new designed billet knuckle and knuckle C's that they have been using in personal projects. Plus they come machined double sheer without the need for high steer arms and bolts. They also have the utmost craziest axle shafts assembles on the market. Stronger then rcv's if you don't want to use locking hubs and go drive flanges. Crane Axles are hands down one of the best in the market though and have a lot more wheeling and drive time design in there parts 🤘 they also have the unit bearing cups for running 05+ unit bearings for your rear axle. Easy to build a rear axle that is easy to fix on the trail. And less spare parts. One spare hub and drive flange works for all 4 corners !
 
Ocd_Fab said:
Most of the dynatrac and currie knuckles are based off the the spindle mount 1992-1997 Ford F series Dana 60's. Still ball joint but optioned without unit bearings ( pre 1991 Dana 60 spindles ) in either 8x6.5 or 8x170mm. Stronger but still not as strong as a oem 05+ super duty knuckle. Plus the Dana 50 unit bearings have to be modified ( honed out ) to run 35spline stub shafts. It makes the center of the unit bearing weaker for running 38-40in tires. It's all doable just not worth it in most people's opinion.

I run Dana 50's in all kinds of vehicles if that is what the budget can afford but not worth it when building a complete axle from scratch.
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That may be an option, but I see far more UB versions. Currie use those 99-04 bearings front and rear on a lot of there axles.

Not worth it is subjective. He's looking at ~$5k+ just in outters, so either way, I'm sure he's looking at new off the shelf parts.
 
Ocd_Fab said:
What's up Tyler!

Another option to look at also talk to Devin Watson with Innovation machining services. They just released there all new designed billet knuckle and knuckle C's that they have been using in personal projects. Plus they come machined double sheer without the need for high steer arms and bolts. They also have the utmost craziest axle shafts assembles on the market. Stronger then rcv's if you don't want to use locking hubs and go drive flanges. Crane Axles are hands down one of the best in the market though and have a lot more wheeling and drive time design in there parts 🤘 they also have the unit bearing cups for running 05+ unit bearings for your rear axle. Easy to build a rear axle that is easy to fix on the trail. And less spare parts. One spare hub and drive flange works for all 4 corners !
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Nice. Ya I wanna stick with the selectable hubs so I don't have to worry about keeping my front drive shaft straight lol.

Another update:
I called Reid back up today about their super kingpin knuckles, and they pretty much said that they only do knuckles, and if I want brakes and UBs and weld cups etc, that I need to figure all that out on my own. And since I'm now on a timeline to figure everything out, I'm gonna stick with crane since they already have it all figured out and have everything packaged in super nice packages that all works together with some beefy hardware.

...... I do really like the concept of double sheer bullet knuckles ready to go out of the box though lol. Oh well. I don't think I'm going to not be happy with rock bouncer axles under my rocklander 4runner.
 
YotaAtieToo said:
That may be an option, but I see far more UB versions. Currie use those 99-04 bearings front and rear on a lot of there axles.

Not worth it is subjective. He's looking at ~$5k+ just in outters, so either way, I'm sure he's looking at new off the shelf parts.
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..... fuck. I didn't realize currie made their own 99-04 UBs.... why you gotta do this to me!!!
 
4x4toyotatyler said:
Nice. Ya I wanna stick with the selectable hubs so I don't have to worry about keeping my front drive shaft straight lol.

Another update:
I called Reid back up today about their super kingpin knuckles, and they pretty much said that they only do knuckles, and if I want brakes and UBs and weld cups etc, that I need to figure all that out on my own. And since I'm now on a timeline to figure everything out, I'm gonna stick with crane since they already have it all figured out and have everything packaged in super nice packages that all works together with some beefy hardware.

...... I do really like the concept of double sheer bullet knuckles ready to go out of the box though lol. Oh well. I don't think I'm going to not be happy with rock bouncer axles under my rocklander 4runner.
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Anthony at DF Fabrication has a lightweight brake option for the 05+ stock knuckle along with a double keyed high steer set if that was still an option. The oem axle C's can be bought on eBay. Crane is absolutely your best option though. The complete kits they offer are awesome.
 
YotaAtieToo said:
That may be an option, but I see far more UB versions. Currie use those 99-04 bearings front and rear on a lot of there axles.

Not worth it is subjective. He's looking at ~$5k+ just in outters, so either way, I'm sure he's looking at new off the shelf parts.
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Highly agree. I have a problem being subjective when saying " it's not worth it " lol. And curries unit bearings are strong but the bearing itself is still smaller still then a oem 05+ to fit in there predeterminded knuckles. That's basically all I was getting at. 05+ Is a larger and stronger bearing and ball joint assembly. Usually turns into a smarter decision when factoring cost vs. Strength.

Like I said I have run a Dana 50 with 30 splines and had a great luck. I like the set ups for the cost they are.
 
YotaAtieToo said:
Weren't you just chasing lighter brakes?
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Yes but not for the "lightweight" aspect. More for the size aspect so that a) I can still fit them in 17" wheels and b) so that I can use a smaller rotor that fits the electronic parking brake calipers and c) keeping less pistons so I Hopefully don't have to put a new master cylinder in
 
4x4toyotatyler said:
Yes but not for the "lightweight" aspect. More for the size aspect so that a) I can still fit them in 17" wheels and b) so that I can use a smaller rotor that fits the electronic parking brake calipers and c) keeping less pistons so I Hopefully don't have to put a new master cylinder in
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Well fwiw, 05+ also means 8 lug no matter what. 99-04 can stay 6 lug.

I'd like to see some 5th gen 4runner brakes or similar on a D60.
 
So why not just swap in a set of 05+ SD axles and just be done with it? Its going on a 4runner right? Not a racecar or bouncer? I guess I don't see the point to all the unobtainium parts list. Are 99-04 outers that were designed for an 8000lb truck pulling 10K really going to overheat on a 4000lb trail rig that might be lucky to see 60mph? Not meaning to rain on anyone's parade, you do you, and I'll live vicariously through you and gladly watch you spend your money.:flipoff2:
 
Ghetto Fab. said:
So why not just swap in a set of 05+ SD axles and just be done with it? Its going on a 4runner right? Not a racecar or bouncer? I guess I don't see the point to all the unobtainium parts list. Are 99-04 outers that were designed for an 8000lb truck pulling 10K really going to overheat on a 4000lb trail rig that might be lucky to see 60mph? Not meaning to rain on anyone's parade, you do you, and I'll live vicariously through you and gladly watch you spend your money.:flipoff2:
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Right? I regret not going to tons to get away from all the one off, non factory parts in my Toyota junk, and actually be able to find parts at a parts store/junk yard/some rednecks yard if need be. This seems to go the other direction.

In for the pics and the tech though, so keep posting!!
 
Ghetto Fab. said:
So why not just swap in a set of 05+ SD axles and just be done with it? Its going on a 4runner right? Not a racecar or bouncer? I guess I don't see the point to all the unobtainium parts list. Are 99-04 outers that were designed for an 8000lb truck pulling 10K really going to overheat on a 4000lb trail rig that might be lucky to see 60mph? Not meaning to rain on anyone's parade, you do you, and I'll live vicariously through you and gladly watch you spend your money.:flipoff2:
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Ya, that thought had definitely occured to me... I even picked up a set of 05+ SD axles just in case lol... The best reason I can give for my stupidity is #whynot? lol

The main goal of the axles was to make use of the massive Tundra 10.5" DROP OUT third members. They are such a beastly diff, but not a ton of aftermarket support for them. And with the 2nd gen Tundras no longer being built, and them having been built for 20ish years, we are seeing them entering junk yards. The main issue with that diff is the axle that toyota put it in... 5 lug and semi float. So no one really ever makes use of it, thus there is very little aftermarket support for it. So, I wanted to find a way to utilize the third member to give more people the opportunity to use them in some bad ass builds.

The secondary priority was having as many "common" parts as possible, while keeping the wearable items as "OEM" as possible (or at least, quick order, off the shelf, readily available aftermarket parts). So by going with the setup I am going with... I will have the exact same third members front and rear, the exact same unit bearings on all 4 corners, and the exact same brakes and rotors on all 4 corners. So spare parts for wearable items are going to be a minimum. And all of the parts are going to be commonly available... 5.29 tundra r&ps, eaton tundra elockers, OEM Timken 05+ UBs, standard 1550 ujoints, Wilwood 4piston calipers and pads, and the parking brake calipers are an oem design that can be found at most dealerships/part stores. The only "custom" stuff will be the axle shafts, but if I haven't been able to break toyota 30spline shafts yet, I dont think I will ever break dana 35 spline shafts (i say that now...). Ya, the crane knuckles are very much aftermarket and not always readily available, but those things are so fucking beefy, if I haven't broken a mini truck knuckle yet, and rock bouncers are using them with 1200 HP, they will outlive me. The important parts are the wearable items.

The last priority was that I work my ass off with my business endeavors (MORRFlate and the SnailTrail4x4 Podcast). So by doing something that no one has really done before, it helps create content and awareness to the brands that I am devoting my life to. And, I have a masochistic personality flaw where I love doing stupid things and creative problem solving... and axles. So bring on the entertainment and help me spend some money to figure out how to put this puzzle together :) haha
 
For someone that owns an offroad media outlet, I'm impressed by the lack of knowledge you have.
I'm really not trying to be offensive, but I would have thought you'd put more research into this.

Given what you're trying to do, going with standard ford outers would be more than enough and A LOT cheaper than the fancy crane shit you won't use.

I'd look into this package from BKOR : Super 14 Bolt Builder Kit

Add their lightweight brake kit : 05-12 SUPERDUTY Light Weight Brake Rotor Package

And you're in business,
 
Bebop said:
For someone that owns an offroad media outlet, I'm impressed by the lack of knowledge you have.
I'm really not trying to be offensive, but I would have thought you'd put more research into this.

Given what you're trying to do, going with standard ford outers would be more than enough and A LOT cheaper than the fancy crane shit you won't use.

I'd look into this package from BKOR : Super 14 Bolt Builder Kit

Add their lightweight brake kit : 05-12 SUPERDUTY Light Weight Brake Rotor Package

And you're in business,
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No offense taken. I literally spent the last year or so doing research, only to find out in the past week that the 99-04 UBs had a major flaw that got fixed with the 05+ UBs, so now I've been starting the research all over from scratch to use the 05+ UBs.

The BKOR is maybe $700 cheaper and doesn't come with heavily keyed arms... and is still cast steel knuckles. And given how much I probably won't make full use of the Crane magnums, I probably won't make full use of the BKOR knuckle setup either. So why not overdue it? My goal is to drive this rig anywhere I want in the country, wheel whatever I want to, and drive home. That means hitting the plaque line on sledge, or 9s and 10s at sand hollow, then drive it back to california. If I have the money to overbuild it, why wouldn't i??


BKOR does have a better price on that brake kit though... Do you know if they have a bolt on application for rear axle too? Because from what I can search, it looks like they only have a package for the front axle since it connects to the stock oem cast knuckle caliper holes. Whereas the Crane kit is setup for front or rear (as long as you run their weld cups).
 
4x4toyotatyler said:
The BKOR is maybe $700 cheaper
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You should re-do the calculations.

4x4toyotatyler said:
If I have the money to overbuild it, why wouldn't i??
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Because if you have that kind of money, you should get a full spidertrax setup.

4x4toyotatyler said:
BKOR does have a better price on that brake kit though... Do you know if they have a bolt on application for rear axle too?
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They don't. If you can weld a UB cup, you can weld a bracket.
 
$4100 vs $2200

I don't like those what looks like Rockwell to UB adapters at all, for $4k, I don't want 30 little bolts to come loose where you can't hardly see them.

For a rig that gets driven like what Tyler is talking about. I'd personally really lean towards factory consumables. Ie: brakes, wheel bearings and ball joints.

If it were mine I'd use all factory 05+ c's out besides maybe locking hubs. I don't think I'd even go for the ball joint eliminator, unless I was wearing them out.

Then either use 05+ UB's in the rear with stock 05+ brakes (many different sizes available here, some even bigger than 17s allow) or use the sterling spindle, hubs and brakes. The nice thing about that would be factory parking brake.
 
Bebop said:
You should re-do the calculations.



Because if you have that kind of money, you should get a full spidertrax setup.


They don't. If you can weld a UB cup, you can weld a bracket.
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I dont think you have been following along... Spidertrax doesnt do selectable hubs, which is what sent me down this road to 05+ UBs in the first place. They also don't make 10.5" housings.

Thank you for telling me to re-do the calcs, I didn't realize that the BKOR came with UBs too... that is extremely tempting being half the price now. I will have to think about that one a little harder now. And being double shear out of the box is super nice. Do the arms allow for crossover steering though?
 
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FYI, you can make the push button wilwood parking brake work on a 14" rotor. I even had the anvil machined down .435" (I think) to fit a 3/8 solid rotor.


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4x4toyotatyler said:
I dont think you have been following along... Spidertrax doesnt do selectable hubs, which is what sent me down this road to 05+ UBs in the first place. They also don't make 10.5" housings.
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Selectable hubs are useless and you can take Spidertrax outers and put them on a Diamond 10.5" housing.
To date, Spidertrax outers are the best that money can buy. If you can afford it, you should do that.

4x4toyotatyler said:
Thank you for telling me to re-do the calcs, I didn't realize that the BKOR came with UBs too... that is extremely tempting being half the price now. I will have to think about that one a little harder now. And being double shear out of the box is super nice. Do the arms allow for crossover steering though?
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I don't understand what you mean by "allow for crossover steering".
I'm familiar with full hydro, not much with the standard road going overland BS :grinpimp:
It's metal. Cut, weld and make what you want.
 
Bebop said:
Selectable hubs are useless and you can take Spidertrax outers and put them on a Diamond 10.5" housing.
To date, Spidertrax outers are the best that money can buy. If you can afford it, you should do that.


I don't understand what you mean by "allow for crossover steering".
I'm familiar with full hydro, not much with the standard road going overland BS :grinpimp:
It's metal. Cut, weld and make what you want.
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Well shit! Why didn't you just say so! I'll just cut, weld, and make everything with my abundance of time now! Lol

I drive my rig on the road at 80mph, and want to do it for long distances. And with the difficulty in trails i am planning on doing, I don't want to have to worry about keeping both of my drive shafts straight lol. So I'm doing selectable hubs. If you know of some 99-04 UBs that have 4043 heat treated spindles and selectable hubs, then I'm all in on spidertrax. Slide into my DMs!
 
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