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YotaAtieToo
Thick skull
You mean camber? You can infinitly change caster without messing with the splines.
I'm drawing a blank on his name, but the dude from Norway? Added camber to a king pin axle by egging the C out and welding it on "crooked"
Timmay from the old board did 3° on a solid axle 4400 10 years ago. Is vetteboy79 still active on here? I know Timmay didn’t regret it.
Timmay from the old board did 3° on a solid axle 4400 10 years ago. Is vetteboy79 still active on here? I know Timmay didn’t regret it.
I don't get why more teams don't do this. There is no disadvantage that I can think of to run a cambered front axle but plenty of advantages. Any idea why it's not more popular?
Harder to do and get right? My SXS is at 3° at ride height and with the camber gain in compression is about 6° at full stuff. Its so easy to do with full independent suspension.
We haven’t tried it on the straight axle car because it’s just easier to press the C’s onto the prepped tube and have them be 0°. We do run more caster than most however to achieve the result I posted above. We get serious camber gain in steering.
I guess we could buy our new inner C’s for 3” tube knowing that they are going to go on 3 1/2” and have our machine shop bore them to the 3° camber. Just haven’t actually done that.
Bebop
Well-known member
- Joined
- May 26, 2020
- Member Number
- 1458
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- 4,842
It's a bitch to do. That simple.
Camber would also push the wheel joint down off center. With 1550s or big bells, it might get pretty close to the lower ball joint, just speculating. The Cs would need to be bored off-center to keep the seals and what not happy. Some camber would be pretty nice though.
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ParadisePWoffrd
Recovering Project Junkie
Agreed. With BJE being available, now, with 3* offset bushings, seems like it wouldnt be too difficult to add.
YotaAtieToo
Thick skull
With the "ultimate strength" BJE's, there is just no room for it. 3* is a lot when you think about the BJ spread.
Boring the c's for camber is interesting, I wonder if that would ever become popular?
vetteboy79
It's bent. #ttb
Timmay from the old board did 3° on a solid axle 4400 10 years ago. Is vetteboy79 still active on here? I know Timmay didn’t regret it.
Of course I'm here
And yes he still stands by that being one of the best mods he ever did. That chassis kicks ass anyway, I'd only place it as a very close 2nd to the Miller just because Erik has done way more development in the last few years, but from the steering wheel Tim swore it gained a shitload of handling from the camber. I never got to drive it because his legs are as long as I am tall, but from the numbers I kept as crew chief he only got better on lap times.
Mine being TTB is a little different animal but the camber change I get from that certainly feels awesome when carving corners. Zero regrets on my end putting that setup together.
Isdtbower
In for Tech
I think you guys are on it by sourcing a forged cast STEEL C with a smaller diameter and boring with the added camber to fit a larger tube. To be the most correct, the center line of that bore should go thru where the old U-joint center was on the KPI line. Starting with a new casting would be a PIA. (This takes more thought and a front corner assembled drawing to verify clearances. )
Apparently the bottom ball joint takes most of the load. So an offset ball joint on the top might save a huge bore for the tube. Some of those combinations are worth looking at.
A little more correct than just wallowing out the new bore angle in a "stock C" would be to bore smaller than finish ... but then you could see where welding up is needed. Do the weld up and then finish bore.That is a beefy part of the assembly and just wallowing and deep penetrating the weld might be good enough. I have added gussets to the tube to strengthen C's in the past. I think I would be totally good with that unless really Race'in.
The guys from Norway have definitely messed with this stuff...but you would never know what they started with first. Lots come off the Dakar truck parts and thinking.
arse_sidewards
Red Skull Member
- Joined
- May 19, 2020
- Member Number
- 71
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- 8,551
You guys are missing the forest for the trees.
Copy the angled shims that old D44s used and slap one under the spindle or unit bearing. Clearance whatever causes problems.
And if you don't do that you should just camber the whole front axle. A front axle with all the stacked slop in the different components will have no problem taking a couple degrees.
If that doesn't work then start fucking around with ball joints.
Machining the C or anything else that can't be done to an assembled axle should probably be the last option.
Copy the angled shims that old D44s used and slap one under the spindle or unit bearing. Clearance whatever causes problems.
And if you don't do that you should just camber the whole front axle. A front axle with all the stacked slop in the different components will have no problem taking a couple degrees.
If that doesn't work then start fucking around with ball joints.
Machining the C or anything else that can't be done to an assembled axle should probably be the last option.
Winchested
IH Scout SSII
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Cosmo shims the were called I believe Dorman was making them at one point for Dana 44 / 60s
but yes would be 100% easier than machining a C offset for both caster and camber because bith would have to be taken into account.
Ghetto Fab.
No idea what I'm doing
- Joined
- May 19, 2020
- Member Number
- 208
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Just jump the truck really hard a few times. Works like a charm!
chaplinfj60
Well-known member
your onto something right here. i am sure there is a decent math formula out there. like set bumps so you only get 4 inches of up travel. go 30 mph, jump at least 4 foot in the air, in mid air hit the brakes to nose dive front and keep hold to really compress the front, and bammm your done....Just jump the truck really hard a few times. Works like a charm!
Ive gone away from Yota axles to prevent smiley facing my axle. I am still sceptical of 3/8ths wall 3 3/4" tubing though. A full truss will be made soon. Going to build leaf perches into it.Just jump the truck really hard a few times. Works like a charm!
'84 Bronco II
El Chingón
Personally, I think running more extreme caster like you guys do is the better way to go. Caster coupled with less kingpin inclination via custom knuckles and "C"s like Simple'72CJ did on his build (although he did '05 superduty KPI which is the opposite of what I am suggesting) would do wonders for solid axle handling. The problem with running low KPI though is achieving an acceptable scrub radius.
Static negative camber seems more like a band-aid to me for independent setup that can't achieve an aggressive enough camber curve. It certainly adds more camber while turning as well though.
2big bronco
Og irate
vetteboy79
It's bent. #ttb
You can get away with that on a spindle because the caliper bracket ends up equally shimmed; with a unit bearing and the caliper mounts being cast into the knuckle, not so much.
Winchested
IH Scout SSII
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Ooh damn good call, never even thought about that. So wouldn't work on a unit bearing.
Well. Come to think about it their could possibly be enough flex in the caliper slide pins to allow it. As it's only the anchor bracket that mounts to the knuckle.
arse_sidewards
Red Skull Member
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The pads will just wear a little taper so you'll get less pad life but I don't think it's a big deal. Ain't no different than a bent plate or sticky pin.
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Finally back on this. I was able to get the Cs off by heating the crap out of them, and then running the hose down the inside until they just fell off, Axle suspended vertically. Carl Jantz gave me the idea. Shrunk them back on at nearly 12° total angle. Both sides differ by a few tenths of a degree. So now I can run 6° of pinion angle and around 5.5 -6° caster. Carl is sending me his high pinion Jana76 kit with a 1410 35 spline pinion yoke. The Auburn locker is here and ill be ordering 538s from Currie next week. I need to hurry up and build a truss before I start fitting all the goodies.
First round of welding and I feel like this could be a thread of its own. This is my first time with cast welding. Some welds look pretty good, some are so so. I used ENiFe-Ci rod, it's pretty runny stuff. I have some undercutting. I probably didn't need to use it on the Cs as I think they are cast steel, but I did anyways. I have some undercutting against them. Over-all happy with the results. The rod wasn't cheap and I need more.
Attachments
reptillikus
ate lug
This page says AC or DC+ only:
www.tullyn.com
Never ran that rod before. Does look a little runny. Not sure what position you ran it in, that page says no to vertical down. I'd imagine AC would be more stable arc but messier weld.
EniFe-CI Cast Iron Welding Electrode – Tullyn Trading
Never ran that rod before. Does look a little runny. Not sure what position you ran it in, that page says no to vertical down. I'd imagine AC would be more stable arc but messier weld.
Winchested
IH Scout SSII
- Joined
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70S6 mig wire works just fine if you preheat and hammer and wrap.
J.Cole
Red Skull Member
A friend of mine had TK1 Racing out of Lincoln, CA do his axle for him. It’s a 2007 Ford SD swapped to passenger drop. I’ll ask him for the specifics on how they did it
I saw that. The puddle is sluggish, then it wants to run away.This page says AC or DC+ only:
EniFe-CI Cast Iron Welding Electrode – Tullyn Trading
Never ran that rod before. Does look a little runny. Not sure what position you ran it in, that page says no to vertical down. I'd imagine AC would be more stable arc but messier weld.
I see they welded the tubes to the center section, was debating that, but its not a 14b and its getting a truss.A friend of mine had TK1 Racing out of Lincoln, CA do his axle for him. It’s a 2007 Ford SD swapped to passenger drop. I’ll ask him for the specifics on how they did it
The Nickel remains ductile, it doesnt harden. I used preheat but my bottle died so i didnt post heat, didnt matter, also didnt wrap it.
