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Stock Market 2020

From a macro perspective, I think there were a lot of small investors jumping back in the market too soon. The big boys with fast machines are going to make them their bitch. I still think it could be fall before we hit bottom. At least I hope it does not drag out past then and this was just a bear trap that will consolidate this fall.
 
nearly a 13% drop in 10 year treasury bond yield just today! and DJIA ending down nearly 1900 <7%.

suddenly, i don't feel so bad about missing out on ~$100 by not holding out for 1 more day :lmao:

wow. half tempted to toss in ~$100 at close and see if it bumps tomorrow, other half tempted to just wait and see what Monday holds
 
nearly a 13% drop in 10 year treasury bond yield just today! and DJIA ending down nearly 1900 <7%.

suddenly, i don't feel so bad about missing out on ~$100 by not holding out for 1 more day :lmao:

wow. half tempted to toss in ~$100 at close and see if it bumps tomorrow, other half tempted to just wait and see what Monday holds



It is never just a one day drop this big. I am willing to bet a cheap beer this will be 20% in a few days.
 
It is never just a one day drop this big. I am willing to bet a cheap beer this will be 20% in a few days.

yup, just pulled up my portfolio, nothing i own currently is looking good enough to buy in again and not much on my watchlist has been rocked too hard.

if PCG drops some more Friday, i'll probably add to it on Monday :homer:
 
Jesus fucking Christ !!!! What the fuck happened today??? Man I was looking good and all of a sudden; BAM! This fucking rona thingy makes me want to go out and punch babies and puppies!
 
This I why I sold my house. I put a big ass check in the bank yesterday and now I sit and wait. COVID has a strong seasonal element to it just like other coronaviruses. It's gonna get UGLY this fall and winter.
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This I why I sold my house. I put a big ass check in the bank yesterday and now I sit and wait. COVID has a strong seasonal element to it just like other coronaviruses. It's gonna get UGLY this fall and winter.
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Probably a good time, but with low interest rates houses might not get cheap anytime soon. I sold my realestate investments last year, other than some GLD I am still in cash. I have a couple percent in stocks in one retirement account, but not much. My thinking is stocks or realestate will come in at some point. It might be VRBO rentals on the realestate side, but whatever gets cheap. I think condos in Hawaii will go on sale this winter and any other place that is a VRBO mecca.
 
i lost 7 k when i passed up the chance to make 1500 in 5 minutes, stupid greed. i still have some bucks out in the market but after loosing my ass 10 or so years ago i buy up all the real estate i can afford. and it has been my reliable growth the last 10 years. i plan on buying 100 acres out west here as soon as i pay off the 10 acres by the house.
 
Finally some pull back after a month of non stop buying - and the bears who have missed on the largest upside in history are all crowing about retesting the lows. Too funny.

All those Robinhood traders killing it, all the fund managers now with serious FOMO, yet we continue to trust "experts" on the fin channels. you cannot will the market to behave as you think it should, your only choice is to follow the market action and momentum.

Nice opportunity yesterday and today to reload on some of those stocks that were extended (and needed a pull back). BA less than 180 is still a great value if you are prepared to hold longer than 6 months. Added AMD, DENN, M, SONO, SPCE, SQ, and took some options a couple weeks out (now that premiums were back to acceptable levels)

And nice to have the bears out yesterday and today so I could make money on the short side and puts. I do have two BA calls that will expire worthless today, but these were effectively the 7th and 8th roll up from last week, so while the loss will sting, the loss is entirely from profits from last week. And the opening rips on BA yesterday and today resulted in large green trades on the 190 calls, more than enough to offset the losses. For some reason I seem to be a better trader when the market is selling off.

No doubt the buy and hold crowd saw a lot of red yesterday, heck one account this week has seen a 25% change since last Friday, but this is to be expected after the run up in the last month. If it was pure equity it would be down around 10% far less than the trailing stops I have set. Slowly going to move options trades to a different account to stop these large balance swings. But that will take years, as some of the LEAPS are for 2022, and 2023

Important SPY levels.
breaks 300 can easily see 294/ 291 then all the way to 275 and possibly low 260's
Chops around today, and closes over 300 then there will be resistance next week at 307/311/313.4. Quite possible we consolidate between 300 and 312 (admitedly a large range) for the next few weeks. The island top on SPY (Friday, Mon, Tues, Wed) will need a gap fill before it is threatened.

VXX did break out of it's down trend, which has juiced a bunch of the options premiums, in my favor today, but a more than 10% move yesterday shows how nervous the markets are. Fed keeps printing money, PPT in full force, FOMO in full effect. One concern will be where the SPY closes today, If low 300's that will print a bearish candle on the weekly - and we will have to see how the market reacts next week. 305 or above and it becomes an inside candle which leans bullish.

Keep trade size small, manage risk strictly, set stops, and trade YOUR plan

Norm, I would take you up on that beer bet, but I don't drink cheap beer - you must not have strong conviction about that 20% retraction :flipoff2:. Actually your 20% lines up pretty well with SPY low 260's if we kinda fudge the numbers from the highs last Friday, so perhaps we are not that far off.

I did have a couple red days, so currently 7/10 days green, and even with the BA expiring worthless today I will still be green (by only a few hundred dollars) HAGW traders, back at it Monday
 
Finally some pull back after a month of non stop buying - and the bears who have missed on the largest upside in history are all crowing about retesting the lows. Too funny.

All those Robinhood traders killing it, all the fund managers now with serious FOMO, yet we continue to trust "experts" on the fin channels. you cannot will the market to behave as you think it should, your only choice is to follow the market action and momentum.

Nice opportunity yesterday and today to reload on some of those stocks that were extended (and needed a pull back). BA less than 180 is still a great value if you are prepared to hold longer than 6 months. Added AMD, DENN, M, SONO, SPCE, SQ, and took some options a couple weeks out (now that premiums were back to acceptable levels)

And nice to have the bears out yesterday and today so I could make money on the short side and puts. I do have two BA calls that will expire worthless today, but these were effectively the 7th and 8th roll up from last week, so while the loss will sting, the loss is entirely from profits from last week. And the opening rips on BA yesterday and today resulted in large green trades on the 190 calls, more than enough to offset the losses. For some reason I seem to be a better trader when the market is selling off.

No doubt the buy and hold crowd saw a lot of red yesterday, heck one account this week has seen a 25% change since last Friday, but this is to be expected after the run up in the last month. If it was pure equity it would be down around 10% far less than the trailing stops I have set. Slowly going to move options trades to a different account to stop these large balance swings. But that will take years, as some of the LEAPS are for 2022, and 2023

Important SPY levels.
breaks 300 can easily see 294/ 291 then all the way to 275 and possibly low 260's
Chops around today, and closes over 300 then there will be resistance next week at 307/311/313.4. Quite possible we consolidate between 300 and 312 (admitedly a large range) for the next few weeks. The island top on SPY (Friday, Mon, Tues, Wed) will need a gap fill before it is threatened.

VXX did break out of it's down trend, which has juiced a bunch of the options premiums, in my favor today, but a more than 10% move yesterday shows how nervous the markets are. Fed keeps printing money, PPT in full force, FOMO in full effect. One concern will be where the SPY closes today, If low 300's that will print a bearish candle on the weekly - and we will have to see how the market reacts next week. 305 or above and it becomes an inside candle which leans bullish.

Keep trade size small, manage risk strictly, set stops, and trade YOUR plan
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Norm, I would take you up on that beer bet, but I don't drink cheap beer - you must not have strong conviction about that 20% retraction :flipoff2:. Actually your 20% lines up pretty well with SPY low 260's if we kinda fudge the numbers from the highs last Friday, so perhaps we are not that far off.

I did have a couple red days, so currently 7/10 days green, and even with the BA expiring worthless today I will still be green (by only a few hundred dollars) HAGW traders, back at it Monday


9/10 of time we retest the lows, maybe this time we won’t. The stock market is in a bubble, when it pops there will be much pain. I’m old and have seen this movie before. I see everyone crowing about how Buffet is a fool and is missing out, he’s not. We should revisit this conversation in October :D
 
9/10 of time we retest the lows, maybe this time we won’t. The stock market is in a bubble, when it pops there will be much pain. I’m old and have seen this movie before. I see everyone crowing about how Buffet is a fool and is missing out, he’s not. We should revisit this conversation in October :D

Quoted, and will put my money where my mouth is, or that cheap beer bet at least.

While I agree we will see lower than where we currently are, I do not believe we come close to testing those March lows - SPY 219. Bad Q2 numbers (well worse than projected) and we may see SPY 260-ish, though I suspect we need really bad news to see that. And the closer the election the more the MSMedia will push any sort of narrative that shows Trumpy in a bad light - BLM, Chinese Flu Rounds 2 and 3, and the market is going to crash and we are all going to lose all our money. I honestly do not think we come close to 260, more likely 275 - ish at worst

While you may be old, I doubt you have seen this before :flipoff2:, this "black swan" is like no other crash I can find record of. Not late 90's, not 80's, not 74, and not great depression. So why should this recovery have to follow any historic pattern? For every expert that thinks we have to see a U or W shaped recovery, there is another idiot, sorry expert, saying just the opposite. NONE of them know, and at best they are all sucking theories out of nothing to justify being paid to be on the fin channels.

Anyone dismissing Buffet is an idiot. The old man does not need prove a thing to anyone, those who have profited after he sold airlines, must not know he is a very long term investor (he is not a trader). And it is hardly Warren and Charlie sitting at the diner picking stocks anymore, he has a very competent team of younger folk (still likely older than you and I) doing the research and investing. There is a reason BRK.B is sitting on such a stack of cash.

AS of typing this SPY is 302.58, I predict come Oct 1st SPY will be higher than that. I am sure the bears will be happy to point out the errors of my ways come Oct and we are at SPY 202. :flipoff2:
 
Warren and Charlie aren't trying to buy stocks. They're are in the business of facilitating capital in trade of board membership.They're waiting to save desperate companies with sound market positions who are on the verge of imploding.

Nobody should be giving them the attention they get, outside of fundamental education. I'm saying that as someone who keeps Charlie's Almanac on my dresser. I've read 15 books from Buffet, Charlie and about Berkshire Hathaway. Their value investing theories are my bedrock. But they do something that mainstreet just can't emulate, and shouldn't be looking to for guidance.
 
Just to keep track, 6/12 11 MST, so we can review in Oct.

SPY Oct 16 219 Puts @ $5.00
SPY Oct 16 335 Call @ $5.04

Bullish to me, even on a bearish day. By that I mean, on the Put side, $5 buys you a contract $82 out of the money, whereas on the Call side, $5 buys you a contract only $33 out of the money.
 
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Just to keep track, 6/12 11 MST, so we can review in Oct.

SPY Oct 16 219 Puts @ $5.00
SPY Oct 16 335 Call @ $5.04

Bullish to me, even on a bearish day. By that I mean, on the Put side, $5 buys you a contract $82 out of the money, whereas on the Call side, $5 buys you a contract only $33 out of the money.

I think cramer is right calling this a pump and dump rally. Asses will be handed


https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/12/cra...ng-a-game-with-amateur-robinhood-traders.html
 
I dumped 75% of my stocks yesterday morning and took the profits. 50% of my portfolio is in cash now, the rest in mutual funds. Will be interesting to see what happens but Cramers opinion makes sense to me. Online trading sites have made it so easy for ton's of amateurs like me to screw it up. I don't know nearly enough about what I'm doing to be throwing around the amount of money I am, but I get greedy. I've been lucky to be making a little money on it.
 
I dumped 75% of my stocks yesterday morning and took the profits. 50% of my portfolio is in cash now, the rest in mutual funds. Will be interesting to see what happens but Cramers opinion makes sense to me. Online trading sites have made it so easy for ton's of amateurs like me to screw it up. I don't know nearly enough about what I'm doing to be throwing around the amount of money I am, but I get greedy. I've been lucky to be making a little money on it.

All you amateur guys doing this and making money (not really counting people like XtreemJ who I am counting in the pro category) are making me jealous. Here I have been just dollar cost averaging like a timid bitch this whole time. Buy in for the long run. I was thrilled when my accounts were up 1% on the year the other day, but i just keep holding positions (my money manager doesnt even call me when things tank, he knows im a bitch and will just keep investing). It sucks feeling like i miss out when i hear how everyone is making huge returns and i am chugging along behind without playing in the extreme volatility. On the other hand....my profession risk engineering for oil/gas/chemicals. I struggle to do things like actively manage my own accounts like many of you have been because with the exception of XtreemJ and Norm I have not heard anyone discussing and building their market plan around risk. True calculated risk based strategy is the ONLY plan that makes any sense to me. I suspect reaching that level of investing skill takes more than a week after corona hits :laughing:

Ahh well, i guess ill just keep billing hours and getting paid and hoping to keep averaging 7% for the next 30 yrs :rolleyes:. Never wealthy, but always comfortable.

Edit: I have to include Norm in the category of basing things off of risk, shit that guy is an even bigger pessimistic jew than i am, he conservatively exited the game for the time being :lmao:
 
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“If people wanted these stocks, there would be plenty of supply if they would just wait until 9:30 a.m.,” Cramer said later on

this is what i learned when i got fluxumed by ford early on a few months ago and xtremej confirmed for me :rasta: i'm just happy to have caught that lesson early and have it not cost me significantly.
 
All you amateur guys doing this and making money (not really counting people like XtreemJ who I am counting in the pro category) are making me jealous. Here I have been just dollar cost averaging like a timid bitch this whole time. Buy in for the long run. I was thrilled when my accounts were up 1% on the year the other day, but i just keep holding positions (my money manager doesnt even call me when things tank, he knows im a bitch and will just keep investing). It sucks feeling like i miss out when i hear how everyone is making huge returns and i am chugging along behind without playing in the extreme volatility. On the other hand....my job is performing risk studies. I struggle to do things like actively manage my own accounts like many of you have been because with the exception of XtreemJ and Norm I have not heard anyone discussing and building their market plan around risk. That is the ONLY plan that makes any sense to me. I suspect reaching that level takes more than a week after corona hits :laughing:

Ahh well, i guess ill just keep billing hours and getting paid and hoping to keep averaging 7% for the next 30 yrs :rolleyes:. Never wealthy, but always comfortable.

Edit: I have to include Norm in the category of basing things off of risk, shit that guy is an even bigger pessimistic jew than i am, he conservatively exited the game for the time being :lmao:

in the time that it took me to realize a gain of $100 investing in stocks (on paper it's more :rasta: ), i could have earned ~$1,500 by selling my plasma down the street :laughing: that would be less entertaining though.
 
All you amateur guys doing this and making money (not really counting people like XtreemJ who I am counting in the pro category) are making me jealous. Here I have been just dollar cost averaging like a timid bitch this whole time. Buy in for the long run. I was thrilled when my accounts were up 1% on the year the other day, but i just keep holding positions (my money manager doesnt even call me when things tank, he knows im a bitch and will just keep investing). It sucks feeling like i miss out when i hear how everyone is making huge returns and i am chugging along behind without playing in the extreme volatility. On the other hand....my profession risk engineering for oil/gas/chemicals. I struggle to do things like actively manage my own accounts like many of you have been because with the exception of XtreemJ and Norm I have not heard anyone discussing and building their market plan around risk. True calculated risk based strategy is the ONLY plan that makes any sense to me. I suspect reaching that level of investing skill takes more than a week after corona hits :laughing:

Ahh well, i guess ill just keep billing hours and getting paid and hoping to keep averaging 7% for the next 30 yrs :rolleyes:. Never wealthy, but always comfortable.

Edit: I have to include Norm in the category of basing things off of risk, shit that guy is an even bigger pessimistic jew than i am, he conservatively exited the game for the time being :lmao:


I play the odds, and have done pretty well over the long term. This market is defying historical averages in terms of height and duration. It’s been an unusual event and is a very expensive market. Be patient, opportunity will come if you have the cash. I got hammered in 2k, then again in 08 when the markets were overpriced like they are now. Did Buffet buy a bunch of stocks recently? The answer is no, and for good reason. I really don’t like Buffet, but he has been right over a longer period than me. I still think we are in for more ass kicking.
 
Just to keep track, 6/12 11 MST, so we can review in Oct.

SPY Oct 16 219 Puts @ $5.00
SPY Oct 16 335 Call @ $5.04

Bullish to me, even on a bearish day. By that I mean, on the Put side, $5 buys you a contract $82 out of the money, whereas on the Call side, $5 buys you a contract only $33 out of the money.

Maybe I'm looking at it wrong, but that seem more Bearish to me... $5 gets me an option where the stock has to rise only $33, but has to fall $82 to be in the money means that the people writing the option thinks the stock is more likely to drop than rise (hence the higher premium on the PUT). For instance:

SPY Oct 16 354 Call is @ $1.48 (that's $50 out of the money)
SPY Oct 16 254 Put is @ $8.86 (that's also $50 out of the money)

Looks like the writers are considerably bearish.


In the meantime, I've built my application; it allows me to configure a Limit order that triggers a OCO, automatically setting the stop and limit based on a percent of the purchase price. I can optionally turn off the stop or the limit (or both). This allows me to click the "buy" button without having to do all of the math, or the setup (Trigger-OCO) in either the ThinkOrSwim or TDA Online; which I found in the past was difficult to do and still get the order submitted on time. I found a strategy that seems to be working, and while I'm not hitting the BIG gains that options can yield I have averaged about 3% gain per day that I've used it (on my entire portfolio, while "using" 10% or less of the available cash, risking ~15% of that 10%). I will say it's been a learning experience.

Next step is to configure the application to buy 4, set a target for 3 (which will pay for the 4 plus some) and use a trailing stop on the 4th. If I had that working today, I could have had a much higher return (still I made 8.7% today).
 
XtremeJ I have a question for you, or anyone else that might know.

I've started using more complicated orders to enter a position, currently I've only done orders for 1 contract at a time, but I am wanting to buy multiple contracts (e.g. for the 4/3 scenario above), I've been searching (my googlefu has failed me) and cannot find an answer: what happens on a partial fill of these more complex order strategies?

Lets start with a simple OCO to close a position of 4 contracts: Say, a limit at $2.00 and a Stop at $1.00, and the Limit order partially fills 2 contracts. Does the stop order get cancelled and the Limit order remain until filled or cancelled or does the stop order become a stop order for the remaining 2 contracts? It's easy to figure out what happens if it hits the stop (whether its a stop-market or stop-limit).

More complex: A limit order to buy 4 contracts at $1.50 which triggers the above OCO to sell those 4 contracts (limit at $2.00 and a Stop at $1.00). If the limit order fills for 2 contracts does that create an OCO to sell 2 contracts, or does only a complete fill trigger the OCO? If the later is the case, what happens if I cancel the remaining order, does it cancel creating the OCO too?

Even more complex: A limit order to buy 4 contracts at $1.50 which triggers an OCO to (sell 3 limit at $2.00 and sell 4 Stop at $1.00)?

I realize this probably depends on the broker, in my case it's TD Ameritrade and I've searched for partial fill: all I can find is how partially filled order relate to commissions.

Thank you in advance for any insight you can provide!


Oh, and I guess I learned the "hard way" to use a stop-limit rather than a stop-market! I had an SPX contract that went ITM at the end of the day. I had a trailing stop on it that was at 2.50 when the mark was at 3.50 (about 3.00 ITM); all of the sudden the stop hit and it sold at 0.50 (while it was still ITM by at least 2.0); for some reason all of the Bids cleared (Mark hit 1.50, triggered the stop and it sold to the first Bid that came back, which was 0.50). It went on to close at just above $7, I was pissed. I lost $25 because of this, if I'd had the stop at 2.5 and limit at 2, at least I would have made $125 and if it hadn't "glitched" at all I would have made over $600... Live and learn, I guess.
 
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been casually following this thread as another dollar-cost-average guy buying in every paycheck & carrying a handful of mutual or index funds across platforms.Got 30 years to let it grow

I don't understand anything of what is happening. 1000 point jump in pre-market of the DOW today. WTF. I am getting closer and closer to getting out of anything stock-related until after the election. Things are bananas right now with seemingly little reason. https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/15/stoc...lose-news.html
 
The market is pretty nuts by almost every measure,it will correct at some point. I was initially guessing this summer, but it might be fall with all the fed intervention. We will have low to negative interest rates for years, the fed is buying bonds in the form of ETF purchases. These .gov purchases will support stocks to some degree, how much is the question. I think we will see some inflation in the next couple years because the US dollar will be devalued. I like Realestate, and gold in that environment. Best case for stocks at this level is little to no return over the next decade. The same is true for bonds. It is going to be tough for decent returns for a while.
 
Hopefully some good upward movement coming for PG&E (PCG), as Bankruptcy Judges says he will approve PG&E's plan tomorrow (6-17-20).

https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/pg-e-ban...plan-1.1451441


As the state braces for yet another wildfire season, U.S. Bankruptcy Judge Dennis Montali said in a hearing that he plans to issue a decision Wednesday approving PG&E’s $59 billion turnaround plan. The shares rose as much as 2.6%.

“I’m going to come to the conclusion that the plan should be confirmed,” Montali said.
 
Hopefully some good upward movement coming for PG&E (PCG), as Bankruptcy Judges says he will approve PG&E's plan tomorrow (6-17-20).

https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/pg-e-ban...plan-1.1451441


As the state braces for yet another wildfire season, U.S. Bankruptcy Judge Dennis Montali said in a hearing that he plans to issue a decision Wednesday approving PG&E’s $59 billion turnaround plan. The shares rose as much as 2.6%.

“I’m going to come to the conclusion that the plan should be confirmed,” Montali said.

i almost added more PCG on Monday when it was back in the $10 range, didn't thinking it would slide more today. oh well, went ahead and put it a purchase with a limit of $10.75 to see if it bounces around again tomorrow. #fuckit
 
The Bankruptcy Judge works Saturday's....whoda thunk?

Anyway, Judge confirms PG&E's bankruptcy plan today 6/20/20, and they are now out of bankruptcy.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/19/business/energy-environment/pge-bankruptcy-court-approval.html

They have a daunting task before them, to harden their grid; but at least by emerging from Bankruptcy before June 30th; they can now dip into the States wildfire funding pool.

Should be interesting to see what PCG stock does on Monday. They were in the low $20's prior to the pandemic.....
 
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