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Sonya Massey shooting

Motorcharge said:
Just rewatched it at 1/4 speed. Shooter has his hand on his gun while she's picking the pot up, he shoots before her arms ever come up, she pulls the pot up slightly higher as if she's shielding herself with it while she's ducking. Shooter is already shooting at this point, his partner doesn't get his gun out until she's already ducking behind the counter. Shooter then steps directly in front of his partners gun, even making contact with it, to get around the side of the counter to keep shooting. You can't see her at this point, only some of the water and steam come out from behind the cabinet. You can't see her so you can't tell whether she threw it, fumbled it, knocked it over, etc. Either way if you watch from 14:01 to 14:07, the shoot pulls his gun and shoots her while she's setting it down. At no point while he's drawing and shooting at her is she even holding the pot.
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Yup, watched it at quarter speed as well. No reason to pull his gun or shoot.
 
Motorcharge said:
Just rewatched it at 1/4 speed. Shooter has his hand on his gun while she's picking the pot up, he shoots before her arms ever come up, she pulls the pot up slightly higher as if she's shielding herself with it while she's ducking. Shooter is already shooting at this point, his partner doesn't get his gun out until she's already ducking behind the counter. Shooter then steps directly in front of his partners gun, even making contact with it, to get around the side of the counter to keep shooting. You can't see her at this point, only some of the water and steam come out from behind the cabinet. You can't see her so you can't tell whether she threw it, fumbled it, knocked it over, etc. Either way if you watch from 14:01 to 14:07, the shoot pulls his gun and shoots her while she's setting it down. At no point while he's drawing and shooting at her is she even holding the pot.
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Right here. He hand't fired yet and she's coming back up off the floor and already has the pot in her hands that she had left on the counter when she ducked:
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You can see his arms jerk when he shoots her a second later:
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Sandy Johnson said:
Yeah, shouldn't have moved in on her in the first place. Definitely shouldn't have provoked her by telling her he would "shoot her in the fucking face." Shoot, everything was all good until he sent her to shut off the stove.

Devil's advocate:

If I was a police officer and ran into the scenario: Lady calls 911 because she thought someone was creeping around her place, cops show up, and lady is acting strange and unhelpful when they get there. I would wonder if maybe someone had gotten into her house and was threatening her or her family with violence if she told the cops about them, so I would try to come up with some sort of "excuse" to get into her house and make sure there's nothing bad going on inside. You can see the officer who didn't shoot her peeking into other rooms when they first get in to check.

It's also possible if they had never had any contact with her that is also why they asked to see her ID- just in case she wasn't the creeper and the real Sonya wasn't tied up inside.

The way the shooter reacted to her when she dropped jesus on him, however, makes me think he knew her and had dealt with her before. If so, there was no good reason to make her pull her ID out after they were sure there wasn't some psycho killer in her house.
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To the devils advocate, they had her outside, they could have put her in the car for a private conversation and cleared the house.

I have no issues with cops, however I think it requires above average character, problem solving, empathy and the right type of instincts and training. This dude didn’t display that. They seem to weed out the officers that would come up with a better way to handle this, we get the same scenarios over and over.

Found in meme thread:
2B2B2D69-CA18-43CF-96B0-EE4C89AE30F3.jpeg
 
BigBurt said:
To the devils advocate, they had her outside, they could have put her in the car for a private conversation and cleared the house.

I have no issues with cops, however I think it requires above average character, problem solving, empathy and the right type of instincts and training. This dude didn’t display that. They seem to weed out the officers that would come up with a better way to handle this, we get the same scenarios over and over.

Found in meme thread:
2B2B2D69-CA18-43CF-96B0-EE4C89AE30F3.jpeg
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I like your way better. Cheers! :beer:
 
Motorcharge said:
Why even have her go turn it off. Why not just go flip the burner off yourself if you're that worried about it.
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Because it's more satisfying to make someone go do your bidding when you're a power tripping asshole rather than just do it yourself. Getting to bark orders is what he lives for, even if it escalates a situation that could have easily been resolved with a bit of patience and reason.
 
Ranchtruck said:
Because it's more satisfying to make someone go do your bidding when you're a power tripping asshole rather than just do it yourself. Getting to bark orders is what he lives for, even if it escalates a situation that could have easily been resolved with a bit of patience and reason.
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aka douchecop
 
Kamela will be at the service,2020 all over again.
 
M92PV4U said:
It sounds funny doesn't it?
Then it sounds stupid to defend yourself with a gun against a pot of boiling water.
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Maybe she thought he was baby Jesus and she just wanted to baptize him with the water.
 
Sandy Johnson said:
What? I'm guessing you don't have audio on because he didn't fire until after he came around the counter.
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You're right, I didn't because of the speed I was watching it at. Still, doesn't change the fact that he went out of his way to go around the corner to shoot her or the fact that he pulled a gun on her and escalated the situation yet again for no reason.
 
Motorcharge said:
You're right, I didn't because of the speed I was watching it at. Still, doesn't change the fact that he went out of his way to go around the corner to shoot her or the fact that he pulled a gun on her and escalated the situation yet again for no reason.
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After creating the “dangerous” situation in the first place, by instructing her do deal with the pot.
 
Motorcharge said:
She doesn't try to throw the water, she's trying to set the pot down when they go nuts and start shooting at her. She comes back up with the pot and tries to set it down again when they end up killing her. Can't blame her for not just dropping boiling water all over herself while she's getting shot at.
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She had set it down when he drew his firearm. When she came back up, she grabbed the pot and threw it at him/them. Then he fired.

JD Mark said:
Every cop in a 100 mile radius shows up and then they stand around with their thumbs up their asses.

I'm not seeing where she "threw" anything. I think the steam some are seeing is from dropping the pot when she ducked after they drew on her.

If they were that worried about her, they shouldn't have allowed her to get that close to them as she went to take the water off the stove.
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In the video, you can see her lift it off the counter and throw it towards BWC #2
 
JD Mark said:
I said it earlier and don't know if it's true, her daughter said she was schizo. And the cops were there frequently.

Actually, now that I think about it, the shooter told the sergeant she was 10-96 (mentally ill) so he did know her and her background. Didn't think about that until just now.

Hang him.
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He called into dispatch before that, while at his car to get med kit, and asked if she had a history of 10-96 calls. Returning to his car after dropping med bag on porch dispatch must have responded, he said "that would explain a lot."
 
Motorcharge said:
You're right, I didn't because of the speed I was watching it at. Still, doesn't change the fact that he went out of his way to go around the corner to shoot her or the fact that he pulled a gun on her and escalated the situation yet again for no reason.
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So a few things-

It never should have got to the point where she was standing by a pot of boiling water saying odd things anyway. Cop is clearly a moron or looking to cause a problem when the reason he gives for having her turn off the pot is he "doesn't want a fire". Has the guy never cooked a day in his life or something?

Now that he's started this chain of events that he never should have started by putting her near a pot of boiling water, two things stand out for me.

One is that she was boiling water at 1 am with no real plans on cooking food from what I could see of her kitchen. She called because she thought there was a threat outside. Very likely she intended to use boiling water as a weapon. I did some googling and there is a bunch of tik tok videos out there of people trying to kill "ghosts" with boiling water. Not sure wtf that is about.

The other is that once the cop started the dumbass chain of events, he probably had no choice but to come around the counter once she ducked behind it. If she was acting sketchy, he had to keep her in view to make sure she wasn't going to do something even more sketchy. He should have had something less lethal out to defend himself however. She didn't need to die.
 
Steve300xcw said:
You are using tiktok to do research? :laughing:
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Just basic google searches because I was trying to figure out if there was some sort of trend with using boiling water as a weapon that could have tipped first cop off to the fact she intended to throw it on him. Tik tok videos were the only thing that came back with "misuses" of a pot of boiling water.

If I were having the same interaction with her, I wouldn't have realized anything was wrong other than a slightly crazy lady saying crazy lady stuff when she said she was going to rebuke me in the name of jesus.
 
Sandy Johnson said:
So a few things-

It never should have got to the point where she was standing by a pot of boiling water saying odd things anyway. Cop is clearly a moron or looking to cause a problem when the reason he gives for having her turn off the pot is he "doesn't want a fire". Has the guy never cooked a day in his life or something?
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Once all the water boils off, it is a fire hazard. It take a little while.

Now that he's started this chain of events that he never should have started by putting her near a pot of boiling water, two things stand out for me.
One is that she was boiling water at 1 am with no real plans on cooking food from what I could see of her kitchen. She called because she thought there was a threat outside. Very likely she intended to use boiling water as a weapon. I did some googling and there is a bunch of tik tok videos out there of people trying to kill "ghosts" with boiling water. Not sure wtf that is about.

The other is that once the cop started the dumbass chain of events, he probably had no choice but to come around the counter once she ducked behind it. If she was acting sketchy, he had to keep her in view to make sure she wasn't going to do something even more sketchy. He should have had something less lethal out to defend himself however. She didn't need to die.
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I've made ramen noodles at 1AM, or later. I doubt it's uncommon in the hood either. That pot was a bit bigger than needed for a pack or even two of ramen though.

I could see some people thinking it's a good defensive tool. And in a select few instance, it could be effective. More believable, she was out of her gourd and thought the officer was an evil spirit or some shit.

Yes, moving around the counter is to keep eyes on the person. So they don't, you know, pop up with a sawed off or such. That said, his firearm should never have been drawn.
 
Steve300xcw said:
I find it interesting, that her having a pot of water on her stove in her house is even being questioned
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I'm the only one who brought it up.


Just seemed odd to me that:
1. She was doing it despite that it was 1 am and she appeared in a robe and seeming like she just woke up at the beginning of the video
2. Somehow the officer thought it was a threat- both as just a regular ol boiling pot of water on the stove, and later as some sort of weapon when it was he who asked her to go take it off the stove.
 
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I don't know if Illinois requires officers to handle mental health calls for service, but California LEO training has really started to push Penal Code 835a, specifically Section 2:

(2) A peace officer shall not use deadly force against a person based on the danger that person poses to themselves, if an objectively reasonable officer would believe the person does not pose an imminent threat of death or serious bodily injury to the peace officer or to another person.

Basically, if no crime has been committed and the person is only a danger to themself, the cops should walk away. It is not a crime to want to kill yourself and so the cops aren't gonna help (ideally) you hurt yourself.

 
FlatLander said:
Once all the water boils off, it is a fire hazard. It take a little while.
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When I was in high school, my dad and I were home alone, cooking a full corse dinner. We fucking forgot about something potatoes we were steaming or something. The pot ran out of water. We could smell something burning, but it smelled like cigars, which was not an unusual smell. Anyways we finally noticed that pot of potatoes glowing red:homer:. They didn't catch fire, although they were burned, we still ate them and he still has his golden haze ss pan and steamer :laughing:.
 
Sandy Johnson said:
I'm the only one who brought it up.


Just seemed odd to me that:
1. She was doing it despite that it was 1 am and she appeared in a robe and seeming like she just woke up at the beginning of the video
2. Somehow the officer thought it was a threat- both as just a regular ol boiling pot of water on the stove, and later as some sort of weapon when it was he who asked her to go take it off the stove.
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Do you have any idea how many people cook crap at all times of the day or night?

The majority of the burnt food calls I was on was 11PM-4 AM. Trailer parks and shitty apartment complex that allowed anyone in. Generally subsidized.

Nothing out of the ordinary for any cop/firefighter/EMS to think something weird because someone was cooking or boiling water at any time of the day or night.

Shit, when we used to salt a few Meijer stores (similar to WallyWorld) people would be dragging their 2-3 YO kids into the store at 11 PM or later.

Lots of people with weird schedules that do weird stuff at what normal people consider weird times of the day or night.
 
JD Mark said:
Do you have any idea how many people cook crap at all times of the day or night?

The majority of the burnt food calls I was on was 11PM-4 AM. Trailer parks and shitty apartment complex that allowed anyone in. Generally subsidized.

Nothing out of the ordinary for any cop/firefighter/EMS to think something weird because someone was cooking or boiling water at any time of the day or night.

Shit, when we used to salt a few Meijer stores (similar to WallyWorld) people would be dragging their 2-3 YO kids into the store at 11 PM or later.

Lots of people with weird schedules that do weird stuff at what normal people consider weird times of the day or night.
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Yep. I get up for work at 2 am. And have worked alot of weird schedules. Boiling water for mac and cheese at 1 am is pretty common in this house.
 
Mikenike said:
Yep. I get up for work at 2 am. And have worked alot of weird schedules. Boiling water for mac and cheese at 1 am is pretty common in this house.
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And I wasn't even talking about people that work early shifts. :lmao:
 
JD Mark said:
Do you have any idea how many people cook crap at all times of the day or night?
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Apparently I don't.

What I'm really trying to figure out was why was the cop nervous about her boiling water from the get go. He obviously wasn't worried about it when he asked her to take it off the stove, so.. what changed enough to make him feel like he needed to move away from her and her boiling water at first? She give off crazy vibes we can't see on the camera?
 
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