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Self defense? Or not? - Apple River Stabbing

IBB Jury - On the charges of intentional first degree homicide

  • Total voters
    52
  • Poll closed .
WaterH said:
The problem with this verdict is it’s either self defense or not. If you believe it wasn’t self defense, he should get 2nd degree murder. If you think it’s self defense, he should walk. I think the jury compromised on this reckless shit. I hope the jury gets charged with something they are innocent of and some body compromises and ruins their life.
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Not quite. We'd like it to be like that, but it's not.
This is exactly why "imperfect self defense" exists.
 
Haven't followed the case except on here but I keep seeing posters talk about him charging them. I asked before, didn't he say he thought they had the phone and he ran towards them to get it back and fell into the tubes? If so, it's a mute point to bring that up as aggression IMHO.



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DannyK said:
It would have been a hung jury if I was on there. Self defense as I see it.
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Being swarmed even in shallow water increases the threat level tenfold. As someone else here said, get knocked out or pinned down and the drowning threat is very real.

Probably a few states where he'd walk, I'd imagine. It's a shame our most basic rights like self-defense and right to bear arms are subject to limitations, stipulations and interpretation depending on where you live in the USA.
 
2big bronco said:
Makes it sound like the kids possibly pushed and hit him in self defence. All words till oldie drew the knife.
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There's the rub and where, apparently, prosecution was more convincing to the jury. In spite of watching the video and realizing the kids had no idea he had a knife. Not even after the river started turning red.
 
Landslide said:
I felt he was innocent until I saw one video where he was away from the tubers around ten or so feet then charged at them early on. That moment he should’ve ate his pride and walked away and went back to his group.

One thing I got out of this whole trial. Either video everything or make sure no one else is.
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"charged at them"

Keep in mind they are moving in water with current. Picking your knees up to walk upstream looks more dramatic than it actually is. Also loose footing of a riverbed.

I'd have held out. No way I could convict on this.

"beyond reasonable doubt"

If somebody is holding me down and water is involved, I should be allowed to do whatever it takes to keep an outnumbering angry mob of people at bay.
 
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KacksterK5 said:
"charged at them"

Keep in mind they are moving in water with current. Picking your knees up to walk upstream looks more dramatic than it actually is. Also loose footing of a riverbed.

I'd have held out. No way I could convict on this.

"beyond reasonable doubt"

If somebody is holding me down and water is involved, I should be allowed to do whatever it takes to keep an outnumbering angry mob of people at bay.
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Cant you not be the agresser for self defence? From what I read earlier he pulled the knife before getting knocked down and punched.
 
2big bronco said:
Cant you not be the agresser for self defence? From what I read earlier he pulled the knife before getting knocked down and punched.
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aggressor (noun); A person or country that attacks another first

Did he attack first?
 
2big bronco said:
Cant you not be the agresser for self defence? From what I read earlier he pulled the knife before getting knocked down and punched.
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But he didn't point it at anyone or seem to threaten them with it. Then he started backing off and the other idiots kept assaulting him so he started sticking.

You can be the initial aggressor but you can "regain your innocence" and then end up the victim. Which is what I fully believe happened here.
 
Thumping said:
That's pretty fucking sad.....
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It is...it is.
Sometimes asshats need to be hit in the mouth.

Be that as it may, words aint gonna kill ya. Would you rather be judged by 12, or heckled by 6?

Personally, I choose heckled by 6. But my self awareness does not hinge on some loud mouth gen z fags. Talk is cheap.
 
Or use your learned ability to communicate and say i'm looking for a lost phone

Then maybe, just maybe he's not looking at ~15yrs in prison
 
trampas said:
Or use your learned ability to communicate and say i'm looking for a lost phone

Then maybe, just maybe he's not looking at ~15yrs in prison
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Sounds boring. How about saying "I'm looking for unclaimed college age assholes to fill with 29 lbs of river rock and see how far they can float then"? :flipoff2:
 
non-OP said:
But he didn't point it at anyone or seem to threaten them with it.
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And it seems like the DA scolded him for that, don't you think?
As if his case could have been if he had.
 
Elwenil said:
Go down fighting.
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jesus christ that's jason bourne

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Let your attackers murder you or go to prison. We see it happening every day.

"Your punishment for having a knife when they searched you would be very different from the thief’s. For him to have a knife was mere misbehavior, tradition, he didn’t know any better. But for you to have one was ‘terrorism.’”
 

Nicolae Miu sentenced to 20 years in prison in Wisconsin river stabbing incident that left one teen dead​


Sydney Bishop, Andy Rose

4–6 minutes


CNN —

Nicolae Miu, who was convicted of stabbing five people, one fatally, during a 2022 tubing excursion along the Apple River in Wisconsin, was sentenced to 20 years in prison Wednesday.

Miu, 54, was found guilty in April of first-degree reckless homicide in the death of 17-year-old Isaac Schuman. He was also convicted of battery and recklessly endangering safety with an aggravated factor of the use of a dangerous weapon in connection with the wounded victims: A.J. Martin, Dante Carlson, Tony Carlson and Rhyley Mattison.

“(Miu) left the scene, leaving his victims to die while casually floating past them and emergency workers as if nothing had happened,” St. Croix County District Judge R. Michael Waterman said while handing down the sentence, which came just after the two-year anniversary of the attack.

In addition to the 20-year prison sentence, Miu was sentenced to six years of extended supervision. He was given 732 days credit for time served. His defense attorney, Aaron Nelson, said Miu will be about 72 years old when he is eligible for release.

Authorities said Miu was tubing on the river with his wife and friends near Somerset, Wisconsin, on July 30, 2022, when they were separated as he was searching for a lost cell phone. He came upon the victims while looking for the phone, “as he believed they’d located something.”

In the subsequent altercation, Miu stabbed the five victims and punched a woman in the face.

Miu told investigators he felt threatened and “fearful” when confronted by the victims, who he said taunted him, according to a 2022 criminal complaint. He said he stabbed them in self-defense after they threw his snorkeling gear in the water, attempted to pull down his bathing suit and called him a “child molester,” the complaint said.

Witnesses described seeing Miu brandish a “three-inch silver” knife when two females confronted him before a physical altercation broke out, the complaint stated.

One victim told investigators she was punched by Miu in the face, which gave way to a physical struggle as a male punched Miu and the group then pushed Miu, who fell into the water. Miu said he couldn’t remember anything after people hit him and got on top of him until he ran back to his wife, according to the complaint.

The complaint noted Miu said he did not immediately tell his wife and friends what had occurred as he thought the group of kids were “too drunk” and “too set on going after people,” and Mui didn’t want the two groups to confront one another.

Miu was arrested an hour-and-a-half after the incident.

“The court’s sentence must reflect the reality that it was reckless conduct that the jury found him guilty of, not intentional conduct, which is punishable much more harshly,” the judge said Wednesday.

Miu was originally charged with first-degree intentional homicide and first-degree intentional attempted homicide.

St. Croix County District Attorney Karl Anderson had told Waterman he shouldn’t believe Miu is a fundamentally passive person, despite his lack of previous criminal history. “A peaceful person doesn’t take out a knife when they could have just walked away,” said Anderson.

Nelson, the defense attorney, had argued Miu should be seen as a decent person who made a terrible mistake, saying: “Mr. Miu was – is – a good man.”

Miu remained stoic for most of the hearing, looking down throughout. He looked up only to read a statement to the victims’ families.

“I never meant for this tragedy to occur. My soul is broken,” said Miu. “My heart is very heavy, and I will never be the same carrying such a heavy burden inside.”

Miu turned to the families and cried as he said, “I’m very sorry.”

Isaac’s father, Scott Schuman, said after the hearing he was happy Miu apologized. “I still need to process that,” he said. “But I didn’t expect it, and I was happy that he did that.”
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