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Self defense? Or not? - Apple River Stabbing

IBB Jury - On the charges of intentional first degree homicide

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WashingtonMatt

WashingtonMatt

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Edit: adding poll

This one might be a little better to debate. Yikes...

I just saw this, so I don't know any details. Looks like trial is being televised. From the videos I'm seeing on YouTube, apparently one dead, one disemboweled, several stabbed.

Something seemed off with this guy, but these kids definitely crossed a line.

Posting the reddit vid link since it's not blurred out.
 
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Kids made bold by alcohol and weed, plus an off-center older guy with a pig sticker. What could go wrong? I wonder if the dude who received a free c-section learned anything.

I don't know what to think. Seems like a lot of detail is missing regarding why the guy approached the kids. Grabbing their tubes doesn't make sense either. But I wasn't there 🤷‍♂️
 
Did he instigate it? Why did he approach them and get closer to them? You can't argue self defense if you're the one that is following/chasing/closing with the enemy, can you?
 
Not sure if accurate, but it seems someone in old guys group lost their phone. Old guy says to hold up while he goes back to look for it. At the beginning of the video, you see him with a mask and snorkel. I'm assuming kids float up on him being the drunk assholes they are.

From the couple videos I saw last night, old guy takes off and dumps the knife. Apparently didn't tell any one in his group what happened, or the police when they catch up to him.

Skipped through some of disemboweled guy testimony. He says he used to work with kids and was accustomed to breaking up fights and de-escalating situations, and that's what he was attempting to do here. Said while old guy was down, he meant to just hold him back for a moment to break it up. Video shows different.

It appears everyone involved was completely intoxicated. Quite a few commenters saying none of the kids stories are matching up. I haven't heard old guys story yet.



 
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Yota Up said:
Did he instigate it? Why did he approach them and get closer to them? You can't argue self defense if you're the one that is following/chasing/closing with the enemy, can you?
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Sure you can, ask Zimmerman. Where in that video do you see him approach them? Where do you see him get closer to them?
From the vid posted, everybody was already there, old dude was looking for something in the water. At some point old dude apparently hits one of the girls, then the macho-men FAFO as they gang up on him for hitting the girl.

But since you're new to everything, always :shaking:, What other retarded bullshit are you going to speculate on?
 
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TennPass said:
Sure you can, ask Zimmerman. Where in that video do you see him approach them? Where do you see him get closer to them?
From the vid posted, everybody was already there, old dude was looking for something in the water. At some point old dude apparently hits one of the girls, then the macho-men FAFO as they gang up on him for hitting the girl.

But since you're new to everything, always :shaking:, What other retarded bullshit are you going to speculate on?
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I think the punch is in question.
 
I think the old guy was defending himself. The kids were drunk and FAFO. I have seen some dumb shit floating rivers but it never went this far.
 
It's all on the kids. Even if the old guy could be seen as the instigator, he backed off and was disengaging before they kept on him and surrounded him. Then they became the instigators. Once they pushed him down into the water and ganged up, it's a massive disparity of force and threat of drowning (just think if they knocked him out for 30 seconds and his head went underwater) so deadly force is okay.
 
The shoulder push to wave him away?

I do see him get surrounded first. Then she kinda pushes against his shoulder to wave him away. Then the camera pans away, and when it comes back she's missing the glasses. At that moment it starts getting physical against old dude.




I want to know where the guy pulls the knife from, and what kind it is.
 
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Fuk, i watched the whole 'adult witness testimony' and i can say for certain that courtroom drama sucks, attorneys suck, the whole "would you say you saw Maddie hold her hand up to her left eye or her right eye" bullshit was just too much.

All of the courtroom shit sucks. Glad i've never been in one.

Is this case currently being tried, right now?
 
TennPass said:
The shoulder push to wave him away?

I do see him get surrounded first. Then she kinda pushes against his shoulder to wave him away. Then the camera pans away, and when it comes back she's missing the glasses. At that moment it starts getting physical against old dude.




I want to know where the guy pulls the knife from, and what kind it is.
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Standard 3-4 inch folding knife with clip.

This mofo playing dumb doesn't look good at all. But that doesn't mean he can't defend himself.
 
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Interesting. Did way more damage than I would have thought for that size. I thought it was like a 6" fixed blade from the little you could see it.
 
trampas said:
Fuk, i watched the whole 'adult witness testimony' and i can say for certain that courtroom drama sucks, attorneys suck, the whole "would you say you saw Maddie hold her hand up to her left eye or her right eye" bullshit was just too much.

All of the courtroom shit sucks. Glad i've never been in one.

Is this case currently being tried, right now?
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Day 5 is live now.

 
WashingtonMatt said:
first-degree intentional homicide and several attempted first-degree intentional homicide.
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Have to admit, if he split some ribs and cut open the poor kids heart... this case will try anyone's patience. There looked to be no reason to start slicing up flesh, from the perspective of that 1st video in the 1st post.

So he smacked one girl in the eye, stabbed another in the side, and stuck the deceased boy in the chest. Was there more to this?
 
trampas said:
Have to admit, if he split some ribs and cut open the poor kids heart... this case will try anyone's patience. There looked to be no reason to start slicing up flesh, from the perspective of that 1st video in the 1st post.

So he smacked one girl in the eye, stabbed another in the side, and stuck the deceased boy in the chest. Was there more to this?
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He may have hit the girl. I didn’t see it in the video. Did you see him down in the water being attacked?
 
Did both parties go too far?.....in my opinion, yes.
Which way will it go legally?....in my opinion I bet the kids win.
 
trampas said:
Have to admit, if he split some ribs and cut open the poor kids heart... this case will try anyone's patience. There looked to be no reason to start slicing up flesh, from the perspective of that 1st video in the 1st post.

So he smacked one girl in the eye, stabbed another in the side, and stuck the deceased boy in the chest. Was there more to this?
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It’s not confirmed that he hit the girl. It seems that once he was down and they mobbed him, the knife came out and he poked anyone near him without prejudice.

I’m thinking he has a pretty strong self defense case against anyone that actually assaulted him. Probably guilty on the others.

I do think the kids started it all. They should have floated on by or even helped him look for the damn phone.

The way this guy was playing dumb is so strange. He’s a weirdo for sure.
 
WashingtonMatt said:
The way this guy was playing dumb is so strange. He’s a weirdo for sure.
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I caught that blip, i think he's not an American born citizen. He should definitely not take the stand if called to. He'll ruin himself if he does.

It would almost take an act of god for me to continue to watch the ~45 minute vids so, after viewing 2 of the ones you posted, i'm out from any more court proceedings of that length.

This is a case for Bonanza to assist us, when he's ready for another drama filled festering case. Thanks again buddy :laughing::beer:
 
trampas said:
I caught that blip, i think he's not an American born citizen. He should definitely not take the stand if called to. He'll ruin himself if he does.
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He can't be "called to". The defense chooses whether to have the defendant testify. They may or may not in high profile cases, because as soon as you do you're open to cross-examination. Rittenhouse is an example of a defendant who chose to testify, and it worked for him. OJ is an example of a defendant who chose not to testify, that too turned out to be a good decision.
 
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