Sam I am

[YotaAtieToo]

Did you change the sending unit or pull it out? Any chance that’s the issue?

I thought that was the issue, so I pulled the guage float out. The "sending unit" is just a metal tube that goes to the bottom of the tank

The only real change I can think of is that I was going from 1/2 tank to empty before and after I was going from a full tank to about 1/4 when it would start having issues.

I need to just get it going and see if it will even do it when cold out. I'm a little preoccupied with my 7.3 being fucked up though

 

[skyhiranger]

The sending unit is the float assembly. It is what operates your fuel level gauge. Also, sometimes the sending unit goes bad and causes the fuel gauge to read incorrectly...generally it reads lower than actual fuel level in tank. But if it is doing the opposite, could it be you are actually running out of gas?
The carbed samurais have a metal pickup tube that goes to the bottom of the tank. Sometimes the metal tube gets rust holes in it and when the fuel level gets low enough the fuel pump will just suck air and cause a fuel starvation issue.
Not sure if what you were talking about earlier was the vent tube for the cam driven fuel pump. If you were, that hooks to nothing. It just vents to atmosphere.
The fuel pump diaphragm could be faulty, but in my experience, when it fails, engine oil will leak out the fuel pump vent tube. Still could be the issue, even if oil isn't leaking out the vent.
Have you checked your fuel filter? It is located on the frame rail above the rear axle. If it is plugged that could cause issues.
If the running issue happen more frequently when the fuel level is low, possibly there is trash/loose rust in the tank and it is getting sucked up into the pickup tube and causing fuel starvation. But then once the trash/rust moves away from the pickup tube (after the engine dies), it may start up and run again...or it may not, if the trash/rust permanently clogged the tube or filter.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

The sending unit is the float assembly. It is what operates your fuel level gauge. Also, sometimes the sending unit goes bad and causes the fuel gauge to read incorrectly...generally it reads lower than actual fuel level in tank. But if it is doing the opposite, could it be you are actually running out of gas?

No, not running out of gas, as dumping 2 gallons in doesn't help.

The carbed samurais have a metal pickup tube that goes to the bottom of the tank. Sometimes the metal tube gets rust holes in it and when the fuel level gets low enough the fuel pump will just suck air and cause a fuel starvation issue.

I don't think it is that, as before all this, it would empty the tank dry.

Not sure if what you were talking about earlier was the vent tube for the cam driven fuel pump. If you were, that hooks to nothing. It just vents to atmosphere.

I don't know what I'm doing wrong explaining it I'm talking about the filler neck vent, it let's air out when you're fueling.

The fuel pump diaphragm could be faulty, but in my experience, when it fails, engine oil will leak out the fuel pump vent tube. Still could be the issue, even if oil isn't leaking out the vent.

I also have never seen that type of pump partially fail? They usually just give up.

Have you checked your fuel filter? It is located on the frame rail above the rear axle. If it is plugged that could cause issues.

It has 2, both are clear, and new.

If the running issue happen more frequently when the fuel level is low, possibly there is trash/loose rust in the tank and it is getting sucked up into the pickup tube and causing fuel starvation. But then once the trash/rust moves away from the pickup tube (after the engine dies), it may start up and run again...or it may not, if the trash/rust permanently clogged the tube or filter.

Hmmm, loose stuff in the tank could be it, maybe. I'm. Pretty sure it was a mud dobber nest that was plugging the vent, and obviously I couldn't get everything out, so I'm sure some of that junk went into the tank.

It seem to have to sit for a period of time before it starts though. I'm pretty sure I tried blowing back into the tank also.

The last time it did it, it also wouldn't suck fuel out of a Gatorade bottle with like 2' of hose straight off the fuel pump. Which makes me think I should just replace the fuel pump and see what happens.

 

[FleshEater]

No, not running out of gas, as dumping 2 gallons in doesn't help.



I don't think it is that, as before all this, it would empty the tank dry.



I don't know what I'm doing wrong explaining it I'm talking about the filler neck vent, it let's air out when you're fueling.



I also have never seen that type of pump partially fail? They usually just give up.



It has 2, both are clear, and new.




Hmmm, loose stuff in the tank could be it, maybe. I'm. Pretty sure it was a mud dobber nest that was plugging the vent, and obviously I couldn't get everything out, so I'm sure some of that junk went into the tank.

It seem to have to sit for a period of time before it starts though. I'm pretty sure I tried blowing back into the tank also.

The last time it did it, it also wouldn't suck fuel out of a Gatorade bottle with like 2' of hose straight off the fuel pump. Which makes me think I should just replace the fuel pump and see what happens.

That last part would’ve been helpful.

Fuel pump is probably $8. Just change it out and see if it helps.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

So I got the parts I need to fix my shifter. I haven't driven it since labor day when it was doing the wierd, super intermittent fuel starvation thing.

Any one have any ideas? Vapor lock? Wierd fuel pump issue? The last time it did it, the pump wouldn't even draw fuel from a Gatorade bottle, but later fired up to dribe on and off the trailer, and now around the yard. It's hard to diagnose when it doesn't always do it.

Also stumped on how the gauge got reversed

That last part would’ve been helpful.

Fuel pump is probably $8. Just change it out and see if it helps.

Reading helps

$65 surprisingly.

 

[FleshEater]

Reading helps

$65 surprisingly.

Meh.

That’s freaking expensive!

 

[FleshEater]

Carter pump is $18.45.

 

[skyhiranger]

I don't know what I'm doing wrong explaining it I'm talking about the filler neck vent, it let's air out when you're fueling.

No, I knew you talked about the tank vent being clogged. I thought somewhere in this thread your or someone was talking about hooking something up to the charcoal canister...so I thought maybe it was referencing hooking up the fuel pump vent to the charcoal canister or something.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

No, I knew you talked about the tank vent being clogged. I thought somewhere in this thread your or someone was talking about hooking something up to the charcoal canister...so I thought maybe it was referencing hooking up the fuel pump vent to the charcoal canister or something.

No.

Also, it ran great for the last year or so, but wouldn’t use the whole tank. Ie: it would run out of gas and only take ~4 gallons.

After I pulled the tank, cleaned the filler vent and reinstalled was when this all happened.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

Move north they said.........

I've cleared the roof amd hood off multple times also, but not the bed, notice how its a foot above the bottom of the bed

I did have to throw a battery charger on it a while back, but its been sitting a few weeks, with last week being some negative lows and low teen highs. Fired up pretty easily. Goung to try and get the shifter sorted and drive it around to see if it does the vapor lock deal.

I still would like a full top made to fit the cage, not the factory style. Anyone have any ideas? Am i better off modifying a stoxk one?

 

[91samurai]

I still would like a full top made to fit the cage, not the factory style. Anyone have any ideas? Am i better off modifying a stoxk one?

All I had to do to make a factory top kinda fit my cage was add a couple tubes and the back corners to hold it out.

Mine was the cheapest pavement ends top I could get and about 6 years later it’s shrunk so much I can’t get to go onto any of the snaps.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

So I got the stupid shifter back together. Took like 15 minutes to tap it and grind the slot out. Not sure why I was putting that off for so long. I may do a little write up on it since I know a lot of people have had the little bolt snap off and the aftermarket solutions are $2-300

Drove it for about an hour and it ran great. I was surprised that the locker in the front wasn't noticeable at all in 2hi or 4hi with hubs locked on snow packed roads. Once my wife gets home, I may take it out on the highway a bit as well.

I guess the next step is to put the tracks on. It's all just bolt on except the one 4 bolt plate on the front driver side got tweeked, I didn't add any gussets or anything, so it was my own fault. Hopefully I can just hammer it out and add some gussets.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

All I had to do to make a factory top kinda fit my cage was add a couple tubes and the back corners to hold it out.

Mine was the cheapest pavement ends top I could get and about 6 years later it’s shrunk so much I can’t get to go onto any of the snaps.

I can easily fit a stock bow or whatever. Last time I ran a top like that it last about 15 Mins though before I leaned into a tree and wiped it out. I want something tight to the cage for clearance reasons.

I still would like to find a sxs molded plastic roof to mount on top. We get lots of random summer showers, so I think that would be the best year round deal. If I did that, I could probably make some sides and back pretty easily.

Or pick up this tin top I've been eyeing in someone's back yard around the corner

 

[91samurai]

I can easily fit a stock bow or whatever. Last time I ran a top like that it last about 15 Mins though before I leaned into a tree and wiped it out. I want something tight to the cage for clearance reasons.

I still would like to find a sxs molded plastic roof to mount on top. We get lots of random summer showers, so I think that would be the best year round deal. If I did that, I could probably make some sides and back pretty easily.

Or pick up this tin top I've been eyeing in someone's back yard around the corner

When ever I build a new cage for mine I’m going to make a permanent roof from lexan or aluminum that is sealed to the windshield frame. And then some rear windows that snap in or something like that to seal it up.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

I did an aluminum roof on the "not an exo" cage I did. It was basically flush with out side of the body and windshield frame, plus went in front of the windshield. I actually drove it in a pretty good snow/rain/hail down pour and it was pretty good being nice and wide. Mine would drip right on my shoulder and leg without some wierd stupid lip sticking out. The stock sxs roofs are pretty well setup with gutters and whatnot, plus can rub on trees with out bending or breaking. crispins said he might have one available, but I'm not sure if that has changed.

 

[FleshEater]

I did an aluminum roof on the "not an exo" cage I did. It was basically flush with out side of the body and windshield frame, plus went in front of the windshield. I actually drove it in a pretty good snow/rain/hail down pour and it was pretty good being nice and wide. Mine would drip right on my shoulder and leg without some wierd stupid lip sticking out. The stock sxs roofs are pretty well setup with gutters and whatnot, plus can rub on trees with out bending or breaking. crispins said he might have one available, but I'm not sure if that has changed.

That hard plastic seems to be the way to go. I know I rubbed my SXS down a lot of trees in tight trails.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

So it's still sputtering and deing

I drove it around for over an hour earlier and it hesitated once, but never died. Just now I ran down to the store ~2 miles, left it on for 5 Mins then came out and it died. We were able to get to a gas pump and it took 5 gallons. Fired up and made it about 2/3rds of the way home, died. Cranked for a while fired, drove 100 yards, died, then did the same thing again. But made it home on the last stretch.

It's like 28* out, so I don't think it's vapor lock, but

 

[YotaAtieToo]

That hard plastic seems to be the way to go. I know I rubbed my SXS down a lot of trees in tight trails.

What's funny is I measured my buddies wolverine to see if it was close in size and it was like 18" too wide the 4 seat talon Crispins measured was almost exactly the right size.

 

[91samurai]

So it's still sputtering and deing

I drove it around for over an hour earlier and it hesitated once, but never died. Just now I ran down to the store ~2 miles, left it on for 5 Mins then came out and it died. We were able to get to a gas pump and it took 5 gallons. Fired up and made it about 2/3rds of the way home, died. Cranked for a while fired, drove 100 yards, died, then did the same thing again. But made it home on the last stretch.

It's like 28* out, so I don't think it's vapor lock, but

Does it have spark when it dies? Mine randomly did that until it quit running all together. It was the igniter

 

[FleshEater]

You don’t have a fuel line anywhere on the intake do you?

If it’s not the igniter as stated above.

Think it’s time to dig into this.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

Does it have spark when it dies? Mine randomly did that until it quit running all together. It was the igniter

Yes, it's totally a fuel issue. Started after I dropped the tank. I have 2 clear filters and can see air in them. Dropped the tank like 3 times and can not see anything wrong with anything. It will run fine for a day. Then die after an hour the next. Then restart a little later. I thought it was related to fuel level, but I don't think it is.

You don’t have a fuel line anywhere on the intake do you?

If it’s not the igniter as stated above.

Think it’s time to dig into this.

Like resting on the intake? No, Nothing changed under the hood from when it was running good.

I don't know what else to dig into, it's so random. The only thing that makes sense is shit in the tank that will randomly plug the pick up, then maybe later float away. But even that would seem like it would either be 0% or 100%, not in between.

 

[FleshEater]

Yes, it's totally a fuel issue. Started after I dropped the tank. I have 2 clear filters and can see air in them. Dropped the tank like 3 times and can not see anything wrong with anything. It will run fine for a day. Then die after an hour the next. Then restart a little later. I thought it was related to fuel level, but I don't think it is.



Like resting on the intake? No, Nothing changed under the hood from when it was running good.

I don't know what else to dig into, it's so random. The only thing that makes sense is shit in the tank that will randomly plug the pick up, then maybe later float away. But even that would seem like it would either be 0% or 100%, not in between.

Guy I know had a dozer that kept having issues. They dropped and drained the fuel tank and found a cigarette pack wrapper. It kept sucking up an stalling it out.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

Guy I know had a dozer that kept having issues. They dropped and drained the fuel tank and found a cigarette pack wrapper. It kept sucking up an stalling it out.

I did smoke a pack while I had the tank out

I guess that must me something like that.

Maybe it's the whatever fuel gauge reverser that broke off, since my gauge has been backwards since I dropped the tank also

 

[Covecrawler]

Couple things;
If that pump wouldn’t pull fuel out of a Gatorade bottle, replace it.

How is your charcoal canister vented? When this happens have you pulled the cap to see if there’s air rushing in the tank like it has a vacuum inside? If so, throw a vented cap on it since it’s already emissions deleted.

Have you unhooked the fuel line at the carb when this happens, turn it over with the hose in said Gatorade bottle to make %100 sure it doesn’t have fuel pressure?

My thoughts would be something in the carb, fuel pump or the tank not venting properly. The fuel system on these is simple as it gets. As you discovered there is nothing in the tank, just a metal tube to the bottom. Grab a horrible freight lightning checker, throw it in the glove box and the next time this happens make sure you have spark and you’re not chasing your tail.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

Couple things;
If that pump wouldn’t pull fuel out of a Gatorade bottle, replace it.

Ya, i keep going back to that too, it was a. Midnight run, so I could be a little off, but I'm. Like 90% sure it wouldn't pull from the bottle. I'm not sure how one of these pumps could fail only sometimes, but who knows.

How is your charcoal canister vented? When this happens have you pulled the cap to see if there’s air rushing in the tank like it has a vacuum inside? If so, throw a vented cap on it since it’s already emissions deleted.

Back to the tank like stock? Cap is vented I believe, I've taken it off every time and never had excessive pressure or had it make a difference.

Have you unhooked the fuel line at the carb when this happens, turn it over with the hose in said Gatorade bottle to make %100 sure it doesn’t have fuel pressure?

No, but like I said, 2 different clear fuel filters, so I can see that there is tons of air.

My thoughts would be something in the carb, fuel pump or the tank not venting properly. The fuel system on these is simple as it gets. As you discovered there is nothing in the tank, just a metal tube to the bottom. Grab a horrible freight lightning checker, throw it in the glove box and the next time this happens make sure you have spark and you’re not chasing your tail.

Venting does seem like the issue. What would it do if the charcoal lines were back wards? I know on Toyotas, it's pretty obvious and starts leaking fuel out of the canister. I think I've tried switching them, but I don't remember now.

It still could be something in the tank that I missed. It ran great until I dropped the tank, so my gut says it's there. Something like flesh eater mentioned, a clear wrapper might be hard to see in fuel. Of course, I just topped it off too

 

[YotaAtieToo]

So I think I might have nailed it down.

I decided to take a look at it when it's running fine. There is a small amount of air bubbles in the filter after the fuel pump and the stock location right after the tank. There is a hard line coming from the tank with some type of flared connection. I'm not sure why as it's just barbs at hose clamps after that. I remember trying to break that loose and it just kinda tweaked, before I remembered I could just undo the hose clamp a little up stream. I'm guessing i caused a small air leak.

Under normal conditions the pump can draw enough fuel for it to run fine, but some other thing makes it pull more air.

I'll try to pinch off a soft line put a little pressure in the tank and see if any fuel seeps out.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

Can't get fuel to leak anywhere with a rag and air nozzle in the filler neck.

I'm thinking about smearing Grey rtv all over the area I think is leaking and see if I can get bubbles to go away....

Or cut that fitting off and just use rubber hose?

Order petroworks 15 tank that I want anyway?

 

[YotaAtieToo]

So from what I've read, a few little bubbles in the filters isn't uncommon

I replaced the fuel pump just because, didn't see a change, but again this issue is very sporadic.

I did find this thread where someone had almost the exact same issue on an efi samurai. Would only take 5 gallons at the pump, found a plugged vent then sputtering after. Didn't seem like it was ever solved though.

Need Help 91 samurai fuel problem

www.pirate4x4.com

I really don't know where to go with this now. It's hard to diagnose since it won't do it hardly ever.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

One way to see if the tank is the problem, eliminate it from the equation

 

[FleshEater]

Did you have a chance to get it to act up?