Sam I am

[JR4X]

I just realized why that picture seemed funny to me. Did you get rid of the Talon?

 

[YotaAtieToo]

I just realized why that picture seemed funny to me. Did you get rid of the Talon?

Ya, I like driving things, not taking them to the dealer even if they are an old gutless pos that rides like shit.

What kinda sucks, is that I could be driving the talon to go get beer where I live now. Oh well.

 

[FleshEater]

Ya, I like driving things, not taking them to the dealer even if they are an old gutless pos that rides like shit.

What kinda sucks, is that I could be driving the talon to go get beer where I live now. Oh well.

My Yamaha isn’t breaking down all the time and it’s on tire skates, pushed into the corner with the Geo parked beside it.

These little vehicles are way more fun than SXS’s off road.

 

[JR4X]

My rzr is ready to go play, sitting in the way in the garage but my chick and my kid LOVE the tracker. Probably only a handful of us so lucky that something so simple can bring so much joy but I’ll take it. For his 11th birthday I asked the boy what he wanted to do. “Go drive the tracker in the mountains” was what he wanted to spend his day doing. I let him drive it again last weekend, drove me and his mom around the mountain for about 8 hours. He’s getting pretty good at it for a little guy.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

Did some more exploring today

 

[YotaAtieToo]

Hadn't messed with this thing in a bit. Had some time yesterday and was thinking about taking our 96 4runner for a little cruise. I asked the kids if they wanted to go on an adventure and they replied, "IN THE SAMURAI?!?"

I was hesitant, since there was about 50 miles of highway between me and the dirt road I wanted to hit, but said fuck it, let's go.

Had a head wind heading out of town and was struggling to hit 50 in a 60, and that was on flat ground luckily, everyone here usually cruises the speed limit. But I still pulled over as many times as I could until I hit a county road.

I probably did 140 miles or so in it yesterday. Most of the time I was really thinking about that 2.0 sitting in the side shit. 1.3 had what 62 hp in 1988 and the 2.0 had 125 hp in 1999. So with wear and tear, I should easily double the power. I'm guessing this this would be a rocket with 125 hp. Then I have the option to add a low boost turbo for high elevation snow runs

So my delema is, 2.0 or possibly add efi and boost to the 1.3. Probably 80% sure I'm doing the 2.0.

Then i have to decide if I want to put the 2.0 to the Sami 5 spd, use the 3spd auto that it's already hooked to and set up for a Sami trans, possibly use the hydro clutch kick 5 spd I have or maybe even just source a 4spd auto or the correct 5 spd for behind the 2.0.

Sami trans is easiest since its the only one that won't require tunnel mods. Biggest concern there would be the clutch size, is the 1st gen kick clutch any bigger than the 1.3? I know the clutch that was behind this 2.0 was much larger, basically Toyota sized if I remember right.

Not opposed to the auto, it would be way better for the snow and for crawlin. I'm a little worried it might take away from the "samurai-Ness" if that makes any sense. The bigger motor will as well, something about being ridiculously underpowered makes it a samurai. The whole time we were doing 45 mph up hills, me and the boys were cracking up.

Also, anyone used the petroworks fuel tank? Looks like a nice bolt in option for more fuel capacity and an in tank fuel pump. Plastic tank being under the rig is a little worry some, but probably fine. The tanks seem to have mixed reviews on line, but most are 10+ years old.

 

[skyhiranger]

Sami trans is easiest since its the only one that won't require tunnel mods. Biggest concern there would be the clutch size, is the 1st gen kick clutch any bigger than the 1.3? I know the clutch that was behind this 2.0 was much larger, basically Toyota sized if I remember right.

Yes, the early trackick flywheel weighs about 10lbs more than a samurai flywheel (IIRC) and the clutch is bigger. The 16V clutches are 8.5" (the 8V uses the same flywheel, but yet a smaller diameter clutch, 7.9" for whatever reason). The samurai clutch is 7.5".

 

[JR4X]

I vote 2.0 and auto. Do you have any fuel tanks from a 2 door kick? I’ve put some door kick tanks in samurai’s. Very little modification needed. 2Big probably has one

 

[YotaAtieToo]

I vote 2.0 and auto. Do you have any fuel tanks from a 2 door kick? I’ve put some door kick tanks in samurai’s. Very little modification needed. 2Big probably has one

I'm leaning that way. After reading about a custom flywheel and pilot bushing, I wont be doing the Sami 5 spd. Not sure if the no OD will be bad or not with the 2.0.

I also have always want to do UA. I was working towards making my 4runner eligible when it burned. Just the other day, the thought crossed my mind, I could enter the Sami with a few mods.

The biggest being the 35" minimum. I think I could make them fit with the front axle pushed up a bit and some wheel well tubing. I'd do 35x10 utv tires for sure, but possibly on some OJ bronco alcoas.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

So I've been going back and forth on this quite a bit.

As mentioned, I'd like to be able to drive this on the road. At least maintain 60-65. (which is actually a requirement for UA)

With the 3spd, I'd have to keep the current 3.73s. Which isn't a huge deal, but my plan was to put the 4.88s from the 99 I had, I even bought everything to put them in except the hybrid rear housing. With 4.88s/35s and no OD, I'd be running about 5k rpms to do 60

Sami 5 spd OD and 4.88s puts me almost exactly the same as no OD and 3.73s.

I like that the 5 spd is simple, it will always get you home, even if you're stuck in 3rd, no clutch cable and had to pour power steering fluid down the shift hole. I'm not super keen on having to run a high dollar clutch just for stock power though.

3spd should keep parts alive a little better. A little worried about heat when mashing around with the tracks. Although I do plan to mount some type of heat exchanger where snow flings up, so maybe that's not an issue.

Seems like what I really need is a 4spd auto

 

[JR4X]

What are the challenges you want least to HAVE to deal with? The deal breakers? Wanting to stay with the samurai transfer case no matter what?

Could you just put a track/kick 5 speed manual with married t-case and 4.24:1 trail tough gears in it and go with the 4.88’s or 5.13’s?

Just FYI I think your math is a ways off. My green 2 door was a 1.6 8V 3 speed auto, samurai case with 1.509/4.9 gears. I put the 5.13’s from a 4 door in it and ran 30” tires on it. Horsepower was the limit to its top speed, not gearing. On flat ground I could get it up to 65 actual miles per hour at about 4900 rpm. It didn’t have enough to rev any higher than that with the wind drag and rolling resistance. If I could have stuck a 2.0 in it for more power I wouldn’t have changed the gear ratio. I would have just wanted bigger tires on it. A 4.9 case and 5.13’s in high range is the same as 7.74:1 axle gears.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

What are the challenges you want least to HAVE to deal with? The deal breakers? Wanting to stay with the samurai transfer case no matter what?

My 2 main concerns are reliability and somewhat decent highway cruising.

I'm aware of the drive ability of manual vs auto.

I would really like to keep the Sami case. I have a 4.16 and 6.4 case. They're easy enough to switch that I can put the 6.4 on if I know I'm going to be doing a lot of rocks.

Could you just put a track/kick 5 speed manual with married t-case and 4.24:1 trail tough gears in it and go with the 4.88’s or 5.13’s?

I feel like 1:1 high would make it a total turd, even with 5.xx. The 4 door with the same 32s was. I don't want to mess with slip yokes either. Although thats not a bad option otherwise.

Just FYI I think your math is a ways off. My green 2 door was a 1.6 8V 3 speed auto, samurai case with 1.509/4.9 gears. I put the 5.13’s from a 4 door in it and ran 30” tires on it. Horsepower was the limit to its top speed, not gearing. On flat ground I could get it up to 65 actual miles per hour at about 4900 rpm. It didn’t have enough to rev any higher than that with the wind drag and rolling resistance. If I could have stuck a 2.0 in it for more power I wouldn’t have changed the gear ratio. I would have just wanted bigger tires on it. A 4.9 case and 5.13’s in high range is the same as 7.74:1 axle gears.

That makes me feel better. I was just playing with the marlin speed calculator, which is normally pretty accurate.

I was also using the 1.65 high ratio of the 6.4 gears? Maybe I got wrong info.

From roadless gear:

4.16 = 1.58:1 high
4.9 = 1.63:1 high
6.5 = 1.69:1 high

My 6.4s are 17% reducing high, so around 1.65:1.

So basically, with 4.88s and 35s, I'd probably be totally fine with no OD.

 

[DannyK]

I would be really tempted to go with a Track/Kick 5 speed and Track/Kick Tcase with 4.24 gears like JR4X suggested, then use your 4.88 gears. The 2.0 is going to be a power house compared to the 1.3 in a lightweight Samurai.

This is what I have in my notes:

Aren't the Track/Kick autos known to suck a lot more power than the 5 speeds? I could be wrong on that.

 

[JR4X]

I could murder whatever dildo engineer decided that listing a gear reduction in % was the way to go. And every company selling them that list the actual ratio of low range but the % of high range. Stupidest product development idea of all time.

There used to be multiple gearset manufacturers that had different high range reductions than their competitors. I used to have spread sheet with all of them listed by mfg but I lost it. Was on Zuwharie and PBB both but not finding them on search either. Now that there are only one two companies having gearsets made it doesn’t matter as much. At one time I was pretty confident that my 4.9 gears were 1.509 high range, and that the 6.4’s were 1.609. Not so confident any more.

What I am confident in is not needing overdrive. My Jeep has a legit 300 hp, 4 speed auto with over drive 5.38 gears and 39” tires. Over drive is as useless in it, as OD is in my tracker. I’ve got a 3 speed FMVB trans to go in my Jeep and ditch the od all together.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

I could murder whatever dildo engineer decided that listing a gear reduction in % was the way to go. And every company selling them that list the actual ratio of low range but the % of high range. Stupidest product development idea of all time.

I've always thought that too. Low range used to have a nice spread sheet, but trail gear got rid of it.

There used to be multiple gearset manufacturers that had different high range reductions than their competitors. I used to have spread sheet with all of them listed by mfg but I lost it. Was on Zuwharie and PBB both but not finding them on search either. Now that there are only one two companies having gearsets made it doesn’t matter as much. At one time I was pretty confident that my 4.9 gears were 1.509 high range, and that the 6.4’s were 1.609. Not so confident any more.

The only difference I know is the tg 6.5 gears are "20%"or listed as 1.69 and the trail tough 6.4 gears are 17%, which I think is 1.65.

What brand are your 4.9s?

What I am confident in is not needing overdrive. My Jeep has a legit 300 hp, 4 speed auto with over drive 5.38 gears and 39” tires. Over drive is as useless in it, as OD is in my tracker. I’ve got a 3 speed FMVB trans to go in my Jeep and ditch the od all together.

Im fine with ~4k rpm to do 65. I didn't want 5k to do 60. Again, it's not a highway queen, but 5k rpm for hours on end would get old. I figure with 125 hp and ~3000 lbs loaded it should do OK. Should be a better power to wieght than my 96 3.4 4runner that will do 85-90 with 33s 🤷

 

[DannyK]

I feel like 1:1 high would make it a total turd, even with 5.xx. The 4 door with the same 32s was. I don't want to mess with slip yokes either. Although thats not a bad option otherwise.

Keep in mind that a stock 4 door Track/Kick has a curb weight of about 3,100-3,200 lbs. My bone stock Samurai with no doors and no top weighed 1,980 lbs on the truck scale at work. That is a HUGE weight reduction.


I've got an Excel spreadsheet that you can plug in tire size, axle gear ratio, vehicle speed, high range % reduction, and OD ratio to determine engine rpm.

 

[JR4X]

What brand are your 4.9s?



Im fine with ~4k rpm to do 65. I didn't want 5k to do 60. Again, it's not a highway queen.

I’ve got so much experience with low geared rigs and no OD I’m always shocked when people think they need it on a trail rig. It’s not like you’re going to drive it to California from Idaho. My 4.9’s are from trail-tough and are newer ones from only 5 or 6 years ago.

I’d run 6.20’s and 37’s in anything with no od no problem. Used to race the JHF 4500 car with an LS/TH400 6.20’s and 37’s. It did 107 mph at 6,700 rpm. 65 was only 4,000 ish.

Our new car has a Hero 3 speed t-case behind the TH400 and we run it in 1.4:1 most the time. 1.4 x 5.40 diff gears is 7.56:1 also 37” tires. It goes 60 at 6,000 rpm.

That’s real world not calculator numbers and lowrance GPS speedometer checking.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

Keep in mind that a stock 4 door Track/Kick has a curb weight of about 3,100-3,200 lbs. My bone stock Samurai with no doors and no top weighed 1,980 lbs on the truck scale at work. That is a HUGE weight reduction.


I've got an Excel spreadsheet that you can plug in tire size, axle gear ratio, vehicle speed, high range % reduction, and OD ratio to determine engine rpm.

It is until you add bigger tires, winch, cage and all the camping gear, tools, parts and passengers. I've tried to be very conscious about wieght, but I still expect around 3k trail wieght. That's with 2 ~200 lb guys.

I used another calculator and came up with 5200 rpm at 65

I’ve got so much experience with low geared rigs and no OD I’m always shocked when people think they need it on a trail rig. It’s not like you’re going to drive it to California from Idaho. My 4.9’s are from trail-tough and are newer ones from only 5 or 6 years ago.

I guess you missed where I said my goal is to do the ultimate adventure. Otherwise, I'd absolutely not care about 5k rpm to do 65.

I’d run 6.20’s and 37’s in anything with no od no problem. Used to race the JHF 4500 car with an LS/TH400 6.20’s and 37’s. It did 107 mph at 6,700 rpm. 65 was only 4,000 ish.

Our new car has a Hero 3 speed t-case behind the TH400 and we run it in 1.4:1 most the time. 1.4 x 5.40 diff gears is 7.56:1 also 37” tires. It goes 60 at 6,000 rpm.

That’s real world not calculator numbers and lowrance GPS speedometer checking.

My final drive with no OD would be 8.05, with 35s.

I much prefer too low vs not low enough. My 4runner had 6.17s/38s and I wished I had done 7.17s

 

[YotaAtieToo]

I guess I should just get the 4.88s in and see how it is.

I'm probably just over thinking it as usual. Worst case, if I do the auto and happen to be lucky enough to be picked for UA, I'll put 4.30s in.

Hard to imagine to low of gears for a zuk

 

[Brecklin]

FWIW

I'm running a Samurai 5 speed/6.4/5.29 and 35" tires and at 60mph the tach says 4200-4300.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

FWIW

I'm running a Samurai 5 speed/6.4/5.29 and 35" tires and at 60mph the tach says 4200-4300.

4th or 5th?

Oh, and what year trans? 88.5+ went with a shorter OD

 

[Brecklin]

5th gear, and an '87 trans.

Before the 5.29s I was going to try and find a newer trans with a shorter OD, but the 5.29s took care of that for me.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

5th gear, and an '87 trans.

Before the 5.29s I was going to try and find a newer trans with a shorter OD, but the 5.29s took care of that for me.

You actually using GPS for speed?

I'm pretty sure I'll need OD with the 4.88s if I want to do 65 that is.

 

[Brecklin]

You actually using GPS for speed?

I'm pretty sure I'll need OD with the 4.88s if I want to do 65 that is.

Oh yeah, GPS on my phone. I think my speedo reads about 10mph faster than actual at that speed.

I wouldn't feel comfortable running what probably would be around 45-4600 at 65mph, at least for a sustained distance.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

Well I decided I'm going to take this thing on trails it probably doesn't belong on again this labor day. Last year was Fordyce following 43, 44 and 46s

This year I'm trying to get guys together for a run to hoodoo near bend, or.

First thing I wanted to fix was a fuel tank issue. Tank never reads above half full and it seems to run out quick. I figured it was a pickup/gauge issue. I didn't think this through, as they're both totally separate. Once I got the tank on the ground I looked at how the filler enters about half way...... I tried to blow through the vent, nope. Poked something in there and some junk came out. Blasted brake clean in (I know I blew the shit into the tank, not sure how I could have gotten it out) that's what the filter is for right? I could then easily blow through. Could ha e done that without dropping the tank, but oh well.

Since the tank was out the next thing was that I still had the spring plates with the brackets for the tracks on. These would be a big anchor and probably get destroyed in the rocks. Dug through my parts "shed" aka the side shit and found some ruff stuff or similar plates.

Had to weld shock mouts on, and figured I'd add something to give the ubolt threads a fighting chance. So I put some 2x1/4 on the inside edge, not 100% safe, but should help.

I also pulled the bottom leaf out of the YJs, had 5 before, now has 4. Seem how it goes.

Next is swap the 4.16 case for the fresh 6.4 case with new outputs and a low range spine. The calmini skid that came with this rig also didn't fair well at all last labor day. I may try to flatten it and ad some supports across the huge open span, but I might say fuck it. At least it will keep the belly mostly protected.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

Well looks like I fucked up the shift rod with my stupid 2 low mod.

Anyone know if you can get the 4wd shift rod out without tearing the whole case apart?

 

[YotaAtieToo]

Well, I pulled the case back out. To answer my own question, yes, you can pull the 4wd shift rod out by just pulling the front out put housing, buuuut the detent ball falls in  not sure why suzuki disigned that the way they did, but it's retarded. I pulled the 2-4 rail out, welded up my 2lo "mod" to put it back to stock, and put the case all back together. I'll just pick up the Zor twin stick if I want 2 low, it is handy with a front auto locker. It will drop in since I left the center ball out.


Slammed it all back in, made a "new" exhaust with a magna flow I had laying around, robbed some of the stock zuk rubber mounts off the side shit, as all these were gone or broke. I like the suzuki bolt on mounts. Sounds nice, really quiet. No leaks.

6.4 is nice, should be plenty low with just 32s.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

Well, I did a test run today.

Speedo doesn't work....

Gas Guage is backwards not even sure how this is possible...

Broke a shock mount off the front u bolt plates

Then, the worst part, about half way through the trip, it died. It sputtered back to life after some cranking, drove for a bit and died again. After looking around. Both fuel filters, one in the stock location, and 1 right before the fuel pump had air bubbles. It would idle fine, and you could Rev it, but it would die after driving a short distance.

I ran a short piece of fuel hose into a Gatorade bottle to get to the spot where I was meeting my wife with the truck and trailer. What I didn't realize at first was the return, the engine wasn't using much fuel, but the pump was sending it back to the tank. So after the 4th time the Gatorade bottle was empty, I noticed the line that I disconnected from the tank was pissing fuel. I'm guessing with only the return running to the tank, it pressurized a bit. I quickly stuck it back on the filter so it wasn't making a mess. Then I figured, may as well try it. It fired up and ran fine the last few miles.

To me this all sounds like the pick up line in the tank has a hole in it. It ran fine for a while, until it got to a certain level. Then the roughly 4 Gatorade bottles of fuel back into the tank was enough for the hole to be submerged.

The only thing I can't understand, is why this would happen now? Maybe me dropping the tank and messing with stuff was just enough to cause a crack?

 

[Wilson]

It’s telling you that it needs an ls swap

 

[YotaAtieToo]

So I dropped the tank again, luckily 7 gallons don't wieght that much

I had it on the floor, with some longer lines hooked up and couldn't get it to do it even if I lifted one side of the tank up until it was ~45* with 1/2 tank. Pick up tube looks perfect.

Vapor lock possible on a carb rig?