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Russia / Ukraine thread

Mikenike said:
This would be a little different. And again the air force is 100% not allowing that. Even before congress. The whole point of giving ukraine weapons is to give them our old stuff that costs money to store and mantain and buy new while seeing how our old tech performs against russias "modern" stuff. Basically a way of seeing what would have happened in a cold war gone hot with zero risk to actually valuable or strategic equipment.
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I was mostly tongue in cheek with my comment but I wouldn’t be very surprised if a Ukrainian pilot flew missions in an F22.
 
Mikenike said:
They are definitely not giving f22s to ukraine. The Air Force and DoD has been incredibly unwavering on not allowing them out of us hands.
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I didn't say they were given to Ukraine, I said they were delivered or maybe a better choice of words, transported to Ukraine.

I am fully aware that none of our allies are getting Raptors, so that must mean our pilots will be operating them, or they're just show pieces?
 
Roc Doc said:
I didn't say they were given to Ukraine, I said they were delivered or maybe a better choice of words, transported to Ukraine.

I am fully aware that none of our allies are getting Raptors, so that must mean our pilots will be operating them, or they're just show pieces?
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F35's are available to our allies, I'm not sure how many have bought them.
 
Roc Doc said:
I didn't say they were given to Ukraine, I said they were delivered or maybe a better choice of words, transported to Ukraine.

I am fully aware that none of our allies are getting Raptors, so that must mean our pilots will be operating them, or they're just show pieces?
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Or they didn't go to ukraine at all but you are stupid and easily bought into something you saw on the internet. Which given who i am talking to seems more likely:flipoff2:. Especially since that video looks to be of tyndall afb in florida.
 
Roc Doc said:
I didn't say they were given to Ukraine, I said they were delivered or maybe a better choice of words, transported to Ukraine.

I am fully aware that none of our allies are getting Raptors, so that must mean our pilots will be operating them, or they're just show pieces?
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We're sending a squadron of f22 to the middle east. They transited Europe to get there.
 
IMG_3597.jpeg
 
Mikenike said:
That is probably for the best. Turkey is perhaps not the best member of nato to hand over your better equipment to. Not really what id call an example of stable/rational governance.... Not that there really is such a thing.
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We told them that if they bought Russian radar systems we wouldn't sell them f35.
Then they bought Russian radar systems.
Now they're sad cause Russian air defense apparently sucks and they can't get on the f35 train.
 
USA should give all nuclear bombs,rockets whatever. Let the chips fall where they may.
 
87manche said:
We told them that if they bought Russian radar systems we wouldn't sell them f35.
Then they bought Russian radar systems.
Now they're sad cause Russian air defense apparently sucks and they can't get on the f35 train.
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They actually released plans this week for their own range of systems to erect an air defense iron dome a la Israel and surprise, the multibillion dollar S400 they just bought is not part of the solution:laughing:
 
87manche said:
Everybody but Turkey.

Looks like they choose poorly
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87manche said:
We told them that if they bought Russian radar systems we wouldn't sell them f35.
Then they bought Russian radar systems.
Now they're sad cause Russian air defense apparently sucks and they can't get on the f35 train.
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I think that was once true.... Can't find anything to back it up.. ...
I think Poland sent a bunch of F16's to Ukraine. Poland is going to order F35's to replace them.... Nicely played. :smokin::smokin::smokin::smokin:
 
billdacat said:
I think that was once true.... Can't find anything to back it up.. ...
I think Poland sent a bunch of F16's to Ukraine. Poland is going to order F35's to replace them.... Nicely played. :smokin::smokin::smokin::smokin:
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Literally the first Google result for"why turkey can't buy f35"
www.forbes.com

Why U.S. Approved Greek F-35 And Turkish F-16 Sales Simultaneously

It seems evident in retrospect that the U.S. was reluctant to approve Greece’s landmark F-35 acquisition until it could first remove obstacles to Turkey’s F-16 procurement.
www.forbes.com www.forbes.com

Turkey’s contentious purchase of these strategic Russian air defense systems resulted in its exclusion from the F-35 program and ban on buying aircraft. Ankara had initially intended to buy up to 100 F-35As to modernize its air force.
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redstate.com

Ukraine's Surprise Invasion of Russia Leaves Putin With the Stunned-Mullet Look

redstate.com redstate.com

Ukraine's Surprise Invasion of Russia Leaves Putin With the Stunned-Mullet Look​


By streiff | 9:03 PM on August 08, 2024
The opinions expressed by contributors are their own and do not necessarily represent the views of RedState.com.

046c0471-a154-4a49-ae52-09a57221d064-1052x615.jpg
Yuri Kochetkov/Pool Photo via AP
The Ukrainian Army launched an attack into Russia's Kursk Oblast during the early hours of Tuesday. The attacking force seems to consist of about two brigades of tanks and infantry fighting vehicles, totaling about 1500 to 2000 troops. The attack swiftly overran Russian positions, seized over 200 square miles of Russian territory, seized the gas pumping station that controls all Russian gas flows to Europe, and appears to have controlled the main Russian railway supply route for Russian forces in Ukraine.


U.S., Ukrainian and Russian officials all acknowledged the ongoing attack, which stunned Moscow and appeared to involve the use of armored fighting vehicles donated to Kyiv by the United States and its European partners — a development that drew no immediate objection from the Biden administration despite its past restrictions on such use of American weaponry.
The surprise assault on Kursk, about 330 miles south of Moscow, seemed designed to bring the war home to Russia, where many do not feel any direct impact of a conflict that has destroyed many Ukrainian cities and towns and displaced millions. It also may be intended to divert Russian troops from other locations along the front, where Ukraine’s military has steadily lost ground in recent months. Analysts suggested Kyiv could be trying to gain leverage for any future negotiations with the Kremlin.
While previous offensives into Russia were led by volunteer militant groups opposed to President Vladimir Putin but not formally affiliated with Ukraine’s Armed Forces, this attack appears to involve several thousand troops, including some from elite assault brigades equipped with U.S. and German vehicles and tanks. They crossed the border Tuesday from Sumy in northeastern Ukraine, according to Russian officials and pro-war military bloggers.
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Biden's national security apparatus was caught flat-footed; perhaps that was why the Ukrainians achieved tactical and operational surprise. Putin was not happy.

Kirby states the US officials will be "reaching out to our Ukrainian counterparts to get a little better understanding" of the situation in Kursk Oblast, Russia.
He added that the US has not changed its policy of authorising Ukraine to use American-supplied weapons "to target imminent threats just across the border".
On Tuesday, 6 August, the Russians reported about Ukraine’s attempts to infiltrate into the territory of Kursk Oblast.
Russian propagandists and milbloggers are claiming that Ukrainian forces are in a border area. Russian ruler Vladimir Putin called the situation a "provocation".
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Naturally, the situation is more than a little unclear. Neither the Russians nor Ukrainians have offered much,

Where Did The Ukrainians Get the Troops?

The bulk of the troops seem to have come from the Belarus-Ukraine border. Lukashenko withdrew his troops from the Ukrainian border on July 13. We're seeing Stryker Armored Fighting Vehicles and a mix of tanks on the Ukrainian side, indicating the presence of one of the mechanized brigades formed during the Spring of 2023. A safe guess is that Ukraine has allocated a reinforced brigade to the attack.


How Did It Happen?

You don't give the Tsar unpleasant information. The invasion of Ukraine unfolded the way it did because the FSB directorate responsible for intelligence in Ukraine gave optimistic reports about the desire of Ukraine for an Anschluss and said the Ukrainian Army would not fight. According to Bloomberg, something similar happened this time.

Gerasimov and top officials "seemingly dismissed intelligence warnings that Ukrainian soldiers were gathering near the border with Russia’s western Kursk region as much as two weeks before they began the assault," Bloomberg said.
Russian President Vladimir Putin was also not briefed on the troop buildup, the unnamed source reportedly told Bloomberg.
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True or not true? It's hard to tell. There were no missile strikes or air strikes in the Ukrainian assembly areas, something you'd think the Russians would've attempted had they known an attack was being staged. On the other hand, the Ukrainians have enough air defense assets that they could've made those areas a tough target. My guess would be that if Ukrainian troops were spotted, they were assumed to be reinforcements for Ukrainian units fighting on the Russian border in Kharkiv Oblast. As I've noted in my updates, the Ukrainians made a lot of fuss about putting troops in this area after Kadyrov's Chechens briefly invaded Sumy Oblast; see Putin's War, Week 120. Zelensky Gets Security Agreement With the US and the Repo Man Comes for Russia – RedState. With a lot of other plausible excuses, you can bet no one wanted to be the guy to tell Putin, "Boss, I think we're about to be invaded."


Telegram channels insist that the massing of Ukrainian troops was known and reported.


​







Objectives​

This offensive has limited objectives. It is an embarrassment to the Russian government; this is the first time Russia has been invaded since Operation Barbarossa. Given Russia's recent history of invading its neighbors, it was time for Karma to make a house call. While the offensive has operational objectives like the primary rail line supplying Russian troops in Kharkiv and northern Luhansk, it will also force Russia to move troops from other sectors to try to stop the advance.


This thread gives a good rundown of the tactical options available.


The operation also seemed to be designed to bring Russia to the bargaining table with a reasonable set of expectations.

The Kursk offensive has put new pressure on Putin as Russian civilians have had to be evacuated under the same type of bombardment Ukrainians have endured for more than two years.
Ukrainian officials have asked Washington to let them to use long-range U.S. ATACMS missiles to hit airfields that Russia is using to retaliate against the incursion — a decision that, if approved, could allow Kyiv to hold a portion of Kursk for some time.
“This will give them the leverage they need for negotiations with Russia — this is what it’s all about,” the Zelensky adviser said.
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​


What's Next​

Ukraine probably has a week where it can run wild before Russia can mass sufficient forces, in quantity and quality, to stop them. Then Ukraine will have to make a decision to either dig in and hold the gains and use that as a bargaining chip to get a Russian withdrawal or pull back.

Russia's Army is totally committed in Ukraine, and any major shift of forces will create a weakness somewhere. The current situation maps, if accurate, indicate that the Russian forces that attacked Kharkiv in March can no longer be supplied because the railway lines in Kursk Oblast are cut.


Ukraine's challenge is to convert a tactical and operational victory into something that has strategic impact.

Russia has been knocked back on its heels, and Putin has been made to look rather ridiculous. He's not going to take that lying down because if the Tsar is not omnipotent, well, he's not the Tsar. It is hard to see how Gerasimov and most of the Russian General Staff survive this fiasco.

The episode has also demonstrated a degree of operational brilliance that no one expected. So far, the Ukrainians have seemed as mired in Soviet-era tactics as the Russians. Last summer's offensive failed because high-value equipment was spread among the good old boy network instead of consolidated. The tactical flexibility we've seen over the last three days has starkly contrasted with what we've grown accustomed to. If this doesn't result in a fiasco, and war is nothing if not unpredictable, the Ukrainians have shown their tutors in NATO that they've learned their lessons well.
 
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