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Robert Kennedy Jr.'s running mate suggests ticket may drop out, join forces with Trump to stop Harris

You all are thinking of this the wrong way, If RFK is off the ballot, they can't mysteriously use the machines to syphon ballots off Trump and hide them in the third party candidate's column and then use the headline: "In a surprise protest vote, Republicans turn to RFK"
 
I think you need to take a step back. The Supreme Court alone is reason enough to hold your nose and vote Trump. The individual politicians will come and go, but things like Supreme Court appointments will reach far into the future.

The idea the republicans don't care about the environment is simply false. Democrat mismanagement of our forests has led to the extreme wildfires we've been seeing, destroyed our fisheries, denied the people access to OUR land, and so much more. We care about our public lands and want them pristine for our future generations to USE.

And the regarding vaccines, some of us have experienced first hand the effects of vaccines. It's clear as day that we've been lied to, information and people suppressed. The studies are absolutely influenced by those providing the funding. The whole system cannot be trusted. Our government agencies have been severely corrupted at the top.

When it comes to war that the democrats so desperately want, it's by and large the blood of conservatives that will be shed. All the while they couldn't care less about Maui. Like him or not, Trump has a proven record of being anti war.

For every blowhard retarded MAGA as you see them, there's an equally whacko leftie. Which whackos are doing the most damage to our country?

As much as we all hate the two party system, adding a third party will come with its own problems. Look at the mess that is Britain politics.

The divide is so wide right now, there can be no independents, anyone that claims to be is lying or retarded. It's time to pick a side. Until some sanity is restored, the choice should be quite clear.
I think you make good points. I don’t love Trumps picks for SCOTUS, but I hate Obamas. They are the same folks that turned Star Wars into the hollow husk it is today. The world is only seen through a lens of “white man bad” and the thinking follows. So yes, there are lefties that are wacko. But I also am nervous for more extreme conservatives on the Court, because too much power concentrated on one side is never a good thing.

As far as Republicans hating the land, it’s more complex. Take EVs. One party likes them, one party hates them. Guess which. But why? Makes no sense to me but for whatever reason that’s part of being a Republican now.

Vaccines I’ll skip. There’s just no productive conversation to be had on the matter on Irate message board.

War? No one wants war. But I don’t want Russia and Hamas to invade friendly nations and suffer the consequences. I’m all for supporting Ukraine. Their lives, our weapons. And we replace what we give with more powerful ones, with the battlefield intelligence gained.

I don’t want a third party, what I want is less polarized versions of the parties we have. Our parties are already broken into factions of more extreme versions of one another. AOC vs Pelosi is a good example. Trump v Romney.
 
First, I appreciate the comments. It's refreshing to have an actual query rather than just make a dick sucking jab, or similar. So I'll take some time and try and explain as best I can:

The state of things affects us all equally. I have a salary commensurate with my title and station, but I'm not wealthy. If I doubled or tripled my salary I would simply be somewhat better off, but still not wealthy. My grocery prices sting for me, I don't have a fleet of new cars because they're insanely priced, etc. I live in a 1400 square foot home. To some of you that's a shoe closet. People don't cast votes on singular issues, as it can be many things. My views on what I think a country should implement are quite varied, and nothing I have aligns well with a single party. So I am not undecided, I consider myself a moderate and vote for whoever is proposing the policy positions I agree with the most.

There are many, many, many things in the democrat party platform I don't agree with. Crime and punishment is an easy example, but there are many more. I HATE the squad. Hate them. I hate the anti-Israel crowd. I can go on and on. But peeking behind the GOP door, they elect people like MTG, Trump, DeSantis, George Santos, and others that I find reprehensible. Then there's the issues: Vaccines don't cause autism. Climate change is real. The Covid vaccine doesn't kill people. I hate Russia and I support Ukraine. I can go on. But for the GOP, openly rejecting established science, especially with an open embrace of religion, is an anti-intellectual line I can't cross.

The modern GOP is a safe harbor for things that simply aren't true, and it's become a core tenet of the current party.

Trump doesn't have support of college educated people. Why? It isn't because college educated people all graduate as democrats. It's because Trump, MTG, etc say stupid things. That's all there is to it. If you watch the last debate, Biden train wrecks. But Trump can't answer any question coherently, and lies about pretty much everything.

That's why I like Haley. Despite her flaws, she at least would act the part of a president. I would like to see her navigate the country forward. I would've also liked to see Mitt Romney have a go of it. RINOs, as you said. But we simply differ on what a republican should be. The GOP now seems to be MAGA or nothing. There is no room for anything else but Trump. I don't find him intelligent, or presidential. He isn't a fiscal conservative, certainly. I understand his appeal to many folks, but he has 0 appeal to me.

Based on the rubric I explained above, her positions are most similar to mine, and I like her temperament and demeanor. So I chose her. There is a reason she appealed to so many Democrats, which is important. I could be wrong and Trump will win, time will tell. But it certain seems that a more inclusive party would've been ideal, and Haley would've offered that to some degree.

Just my .02. :beer:
I honestly don't disagree with as much of this as I was thinking I would when I started.

I don't know on the vaccines. I would like to know though. A fair and open study, if that is even possible, to settle it once and for all should be done though. I am no expert on how but this is something that needs to be put to bed either way and RFK has the soapbox to make it happen. Vaccines are either hurting kids or they are being hurt because people won't get perfectly safe vaccines. It's one or the other. I don't want kids getting hurt because adults are too dug into their positions to explore, which is what we have know IMO.

I don't disagree with you on Trump much. His debate performance sucked. He went up against a person that couldn't talk and stood with his mount gaping most of the time and still wasn't impressive. I think that for the most part he is a buffoon, or at least his public persona is. I wouldn't be his friend from what I know of him. However, I don't give a fuck about being my president's friend. I want someone who is good for the country, for my kids, for my grandkids. That isn't Haley and it sure the fuck isn't Harris or any democrat I can think of.

I do want a conservative that can fight. Someone who can tell democrats, that are crazy ,to fuck off. Can tell the media to fuck off. That is TRump and DeSantis..........make Vivak but I don't really trust him all that much. Probably just gun shy from the GWB, Karl Rove types.

I don't mind Russia. They are nothing outside of nuclear, which we seem hellbent on giving them choice but to use. Fucking stupid over a corrupt country not even on our continent.

I do believe the GOP had mostly converted to MAGA or nothing. I have no issue with that. I'd like someone more mature that can actually win over people. Vivak, maybe DeSantis if he can find some charisma, I like Rubio as well. Fuck no to a Romney type who just wants to get along. We are too far over the edge to "get along". Spending 2 trillion in deficit vs 4 trillion is a RINO bullshit along with "common sense" gun BS, aid to everyone with a few wars for icing on top.

I will take Trump's SC picks just fine. They have disappointed me sometimes but I think they decide based on the Constitutionality and its application. Not just party lines. That is fine with me, even if I don't like the outcome. I am mature enough to know that sometimes I would like some shit to happen that is NOT Constitutional and I am glad that there are people that throw cold water on that. If it gets twisted for my side it is just a matter of time that it is twisted for the other. Let's just keep it straight and piss both sides off now and then.

No doubt that Haley is a better speaker and politician that Trump. I can't see how anyone can argue that. I just don't want her vision for the world, and most importantly the USA. Forever wars, propping up country after country is unsustainable and need to go NOW.

Regardless, its Trump or Harris at this point unless someone takes Trump out along the way the next few months.

In that matchup, I am Team Trump gargling balls. I truly fear 4 years of Harris and that isn't hyperbole.
 
I honestly don't disagree with as much of this as I was thinking I would when I started.

I don't know on the vaccines. I would like to know though. A fair and open study, if that is even possible, to settle it once and for all should be done though. I am no expert on how but this is something that needs to be put to bed either way and RFK has the soapbox to make it happen. Vaccines are either hurting kids or they are being hurt because people won't get perfectly safe vaccines. It's one or the other. I don't want kids getting hurt because adults are too dug into their positions to explore, which is what we have know IMO.

I don't disagree with you on Trump much. His debate performance sucked. He went up against a person that couldn't talk and stood with his mount gaping most of the time and still wasn't impressive. I think that for the most part he is a buffoon, or at least his public persona is. I wouldn't be his friend from what I know of him. However, I don't give a fuck about being my president's friend. I want someone who is good for the country, for my kids, for my grandkids. That isn't Haley and it sure the fuck isn't Harris or any democrat I can think of.

I do want a conservative that can fight. Someone who can tell democrats, that are crazy ,to fuck off. Can tell the media to fuck off. That is TRump and DeSantis..........make Vivak but I don't really trust him all that much. Probably just gun shy from the GWB, Karl Rove types.

I don't mind Russia. They are nothing outside of nuclear, which we seem hellbent on giving them choice but to use. Fucking stupid over a corrupt country not even on our continent.

I do believe the GOP had mostly converted to MAGA or nothing. I have no issue with that. I'd like someone more mature that can actually win over people. Vivak, maybe DeSantis if he can find some charisma, I like Rubio as well. Fuck no to a Romney type who just wants to get along. We are too far over the edge to "get along". Spending 2 trillion in deficit vs 4 trillion is a RINO bullshit along with "common sense" gun BS, aid to everyone with a few wars for icing on top.

I will take Trump's SC picks just fine. They have disappointed me sometimes but I think they decide based on the Constitutionality and its application. Not just party lines. That is fine with me, even if I don't like the outcome. I am mature enough to know that sometimes I would like some shit to happen that is NOT Constitutional and I am glad that there are people that throw cold water on that. If it gets twisted for my side it is just a matter of time that it is twisted for the other. Let's just keep it straight and piss both sides off now and then.

No doubt that Haley is a better speaker and politician that Trump. I can't see how anyone can argue that. I just don't want her vision for the world, and most importantly the USA. Forever wars, propping up country after country is unsustainable and need to go NOW.

Regardless, its Trump or Harris at this point unless someone takes Trump out along the way the next few months.

In that matchup, I am Team Trump gargling balls. I truly fear 4 years of Harris and that isn't hyperbole.
Well said.

I don’t disagree with your points. We’re not going to vote like clones, but I certainly don’t think one is more right than another. I respect WHY you have your views, and I totally get it.
 
I honestly don't disagree with as much of this as I was thinking I would when I started.

I don't know on the vaccines. I would like to know though. A fair and open study, if that is even possible, to settle it once and for all should be done though. I am no expert on how but this is something that needs to be put to bed either way and RFK has the soapbox to make it happen. Vaccines are either hurting kids or they are being hurt because people won't get perfectly safe vaccines. It's one or the other. I don't want kids getting hurt because adults are too dug into their positions to explore, which is what we have know IMO.

I don't disagree with you on Trump much. His debate performance sucked. He went up against a person that couldn't talk and stood with his mount gaping most of the time and still wasn't impressive. I think that for the most part he is a buffoon, or at least his public persona is. I wouldn't be his friend from what I know of him. However, I don't give a fuck about being my president's friend. I want someone who is good for the country, for my kids, for my grandkids. That isn't Haley and it sure the fuck isn't Harris or any democrat I can think of.

I do want a conservative that can fight. Someone who can tell democrats, that are crazy ,to fuck off. Can tell the media to fuck off. That is TRump and DeSantis..........make Vivak but I don't really trust him all that much. Probably just gun shy from the GWB, Karl Rove types.

I don't mind Russia. They are nothing outside of nuclear, which we seem hellbent on giving them choice but to use. Fucking stupid over a corrupt country not even on our continent.

I do believe the GOP had mostly converted to MAGA or nothing. I have no issue with that. I'd like someone more mature that can actually win over people. Vivak, maybe DeSantis if he can find some charisma, I like Rubio as well. Fuck no to a Romney type who just wants to get along. We are too far over the edge to "get along". Spending 2 trillion in deficit vs 4 trillion is a RINO bullshit along with "common sense" gun BS, aid to everyone with a few wars for icing on top.

I will take Trump's SC picks just fine. They have disappointed me sometimes but I think they decide based on the Constitutionality and its application. Not just party lines. That is fine with me, even if I don't like the outcome. I am mature enough to know that sometimes I would like some shit to happen that is NOT Constitutional and I am glad that there are people that throw cold water on that. If it gets twisted for my side it is just a matter of time that it is twisted for the other. Let's just keep it straight and piss both sides off now and then.

No doubt that Haley is a better speaker and politician that Trump. I can't see how anyone can argue that. I just don't want her vision for the world, and most importantly the USA. Forever wars, propping up country after country is unsustainable and need to go NOW.

Regardless, its Trump or Harris at this point unless someone takes Trump out along the way the next few months.

In that matchup, I am Team Trump gargling balls. I truly fear 4 years of Harris and that isn't hyperbole.
Maybe I'm out of touch on the vaccine plank but I don't recall anyone in the GOP claiming vaccines in general are causing widespread problems EXCEPT the covid vaccine. I believe Trump's policies as witnessed during his first term are better for MY well being and also the country's. I like that he is against the deep state by doubt he will have much success draining it. I would be very happy to see more constitutionalists on th Supreme Court. I am very troubled by the latina woman on the court who said during her testimony before the Senate that she would bring her Latina heritage into her decisions on the Court. Justices should have a blind eye to the ethnicity of litigants and only consider facts and law including the constitution when considering cases.

I guess my biggest concern in picking a candidate this cycle is that the dems are using the ABC agency's and the media to brainwash the sheeple and to keep the dems in office will only exacerbate the problem. I like that Trump is basically a Washington outsider who is apparently not controlled by the deep state. That is also a problem though because he didn't figure out how much harm they were doing to him in his first term until he was fucked during the election. He needs to get an advisor who can be trusted and knows Washington inside and out, perhaps Trey Gowdy. It would be great if he found a real snake to take on the vermin but could be trusted by Trump at the same time. Probably doesn't exist.
 
I also think Trump must get someone not directly in his campaign who can attack his political opponents in the most harsh and vile way while not saying anything "unpresidential" himself. That way he would be distanced from the mean tweets himself, plausible deniability and all that.
 
First, I appreciate the comments. It's refreshing to have an actual query rather than just make a dick sucking jab, or similar. So I'll take some time and try and explain as best I can:

The state of things affects us all equally. I have a salary commensurate with my title and station, but I'm not wealthy. If I doubled or tripled my salary I would simply be somewhat better off, but still not wealthy. My grocery prices sting for me, I don't have a fleet of new cars because they're insanely priced, etc. I live in a 1400 square foot home. To some of you that's a shoe closet. People don't cast votes on singular issues, as it can be many things. My views on what I think a country should implement are quite varied, and nothing I have aligns well with a single party. So I am not undecided, I consider myself a moderate and vote for whoever is proposing the policy positions I agree with the most.

There are many, many, many things in the democrat party platform I don't agree with. Crime and punishment is an easy example, but there are many more. I HATE the squad. Hate them. I hate the anti-Israel crowd. I can go on and on. But peeking behind the GOP door, they elect people like MTG, Trump, DeSantis, George Santos, and others that I find reprehensible. Then there's the issues: Vaccines don't cause autism. Climate change is real. The Covid vaccine doesn't kill people. I hate Russia and I support Ukraine. I can go on. But for the GOP, openly rejecting established science, especially with an open embrace of religion, is an anti-intellectual line I can't cross.

The modern GOP is a safe harbor for things that simply aren't true, and it's become a core tenet of the current party.

Trump doesn't have support of college educated people. Why? It isn't because college educated people all graduate as democrats. It's because Trump, MTG, etc say stupid things. That's all there is to it. If you watch the last debate, Biden train wrecks. But Trump can't answer any question coherently, and lies about pretty much everything.

That's why I like Haley. Despite her flaws, she at least would act the part of a president. I would like to see her navigate the country forward. I would've also liked to see Mitt Romney have a go of it. RINOs, as you said. But we simply differ on what a republican should be. The GOP now seems to be MAGA or nothing. There is no room for anything else but Trump. I don't find him intelligent, or presidential. He isn't a fiscal conservative, certainly. I understand his appeal to many folks, but he has 0 appeal to me.

Based on the rubric I explained above, her positions are most similar to mine, and I like her temperament and demeanor. So I chose her. There is a reason she appealed to so many Democrats, which is important. I could be wrong and Trump will win, time will tell. But it certain seems that a more inclusive party would've been ideal, and Haley would've offered that to some degree.

Just my .02. :beer:
Fine, I'll bite and address these point by point. Dick jokes aside, you're a neocon at best and why I always say there's no such thing as a California conservative. You might think you're conservative, but you're so out of touch with the rest of the country it's not even funny and worse, have no idea about it.

I don't think I've seen a single person on this forum say they like MTG or George Santos, both are nuts and I don't think either carry much weight or popularity outside their districts. Santos in particular was a RINO conman who had only recently joined the party, it's not like he was some high profile establishment republican. DeSantis, while I don't agree with him on everything, has been fantastic for Florida.

When it comes to Kennedy and vaccines, you've clearly never listened to the man because he's not even anti-vax. His whole argument is that the vaccines themselves are fine, but the issue and link to autism is the mercury used as a delivery system and that they simply need to find another method for that.

Outside of the COVID shot, by and large I don't think most conservatives are anti-vax. No one is denying is flat out not real, but it's clearly not as simple as the planet is gonna die in 10 years due to industrialization and cow farts. Our ability to look at how climate has changed over time is extremely limited and all of the climate models used to push the green bullshit are designed to show the outcome they want and intentionally disregard conflicting data. Most of us have no problem changing the things that make sense to change, but we have huge problems with the sky is falling nonsense used to scare the populace into lining politicians pockets. We have a huge problem with nonsense like completely geting rid of gas cars long before the technology exists to adequately replace them. We have huge problems when all this nonsense is forced on us when the results are minimal at best, meanwhile the rest of the planet doesn't even come close to what the Indians and Chinese are doing to the environment. Overall, the climate is always changing and always has, obviously we have some impact but to put the blame solely on people and act like the planet is going to die in a constantly moving goalpost of a time period is absurd.

The covid shit you're just flat out wrong on. Not even going to get into all that. Broadly speaking, I agree about the religion vs science argument, but only in the broadest sense. I have no desire to see the GOP swing back towards catering to the far religious evangelical right. That said, the party has been steadily moving away from that for the better part of 20 years. Abortion is still the big elephant in the room there, but I think you'll see that change as well as the boomer die off and gen X and younger take more control of the party. Most people outside that generation don't really care about abortion and want to see the GOP stop trying to die on that hill.

Haley and Romney are bought and paid for globalists. All you get with them is more endless wars, more trampling of civil liberties, more shit like the PATRIOT Act, further expanse of government, etc, etc. They're fundamentally not any different than the establishment Democrats and the absolute worst people to be running this country. Nothing about either of them in the Presidency would move this country forward. They'd maintain the status quo, continue to spend insane money we don't have, continue the foreign wars that only enrich the MID, and expand the size and scope of the Federal government. Eight years of that under Bush was bad enough, another 8 under Obama was even worse. You can bitch about Trumps demeanor all you want, but the fact remains he's the sole President in more than a century to not get us involved in another foreign war. Haley would turn Ukraine into another Afghanistan and if you can't see the disaster that Afghanistan was and what Ukraine would be then you're just hopeless.

The whole reason Trump won is because he campaigned on moving this country away from everything both sides of the aisle establishment politicans want to continue. He resonated with a majority of the country in 2016 because Hillary is effectively the same person as Haley. The average person in this country, regardless of party, more or less wants the same thing from their government. Some level of fiscal responsability, a reasonably functioning economy, and to stop seeing their fucking kids shipped off to some 3rd world shithole to die for no reason other than putting money in the pockets of the wealthy. Trump only won because the establishment put the bar so fucking low that it took next to no effort to step over it. The Nicky Haley's of the world have no problem contintuing to lower that bar and that sure as shit isn't moving this country forward.
 
So the game is: We the government will do whatever we want until you guys actually escalate into the streets. But we pretend you can have a choice and a say in it all. Please vote. You can also vote multiple times in multiple places! Nooo, don't think too much about that one, just go vote ITS IMPORTATNTTTTTT.

My ass.
 
Fine, I'll bite and address these point by point. Dick jokes aside, you're a neocon at best and why I always say there's no such thing as a California conservative. You might think you're conservative, but you're so out of touch with the rest of the country it's not even funny and worse, have no idea about it.

I don't think I've seen a single person on this forum say they like MTG or George Santos, both are nuts and I don't think either carry much weight or popularity outside their districts. Santos in particular was a RINO conman who had only recently joined the party, it's not like he was some high profile establishment republican. DeSantis, while I don't agree with him on everything, has been fantastic for Florida.

When it comes to Kennedy and vaccines, you've clearly never listened to the man because he's not even anti-vax. His whole argument is that the vaccines themselves are fine, but the issue and link to autism is the mercury used as a delivery system and that they simply need to find another method for that.

Outside of the COVID shot, by and large I don't think most conservatives are anti-vax. No one is denying is flat out not real, but it's clearly not as simple as the planet is gonna die in 10 years due to industrialization and cow farts. Our ability to look at how climate has changed over time is extremely limited and all of the climate models used to push the green bullshit are designed to show the outcome they want and intentionally disregard conflicting data. Most of us have no problem changing the things that make sense to change, but we have huge problems with the sky is falling nonsense used to scare the populace into lining politicians pockets. We have a huge problem with nonsense like completely geting rid of gas cars long before the technology exists to adequately replace them. We have huge problems when all this nonsense is forced on us when the results are minimal at best, meanwhile the rest of the planet doesn't even come close to what the Indians and Chinese are doing to the environment. Overall, the climate is always changing and always has, obviously we have some impact but to put the blame solely on people and act like the planet is going to die in a constantly moving goalpost of a time period is absurd.

The covid shit you're just flat out wrong on. Not even going to get into all that. Broadly speaking, I agree about the religion vs science argument, but only in the broadest sense. I have no desire to see the GOP swing back towards catering to the far religious evangelical right. That said, the party has been steadily moving away from that for the better part of 20 years. Abortion is still the big elephant in the room there, but I think you'll see that change as well as the boomer die off and gen X and younger take more control of the party. Most people outside that generation don't really care about abortion and want to see the GOP stop trying to die on that hill.

Haley and Romney are bought and paid for globalists. All you get with them is more endless wars, more trampling of civil liberties, more shit like the PATRIOT Act, further expanse of government, etc, etc. They're fundamentally not any different than the establishment Democrats and the absolute worst people to be running this country. Nothing about either of them in the Presidency would move this country forward. They'd maintain the status quo, continue to spend insane money we don't have, continue the foreign wars that only enrich the MID, and expand the size and scope of the Federal government. Eight years of that under Bush was bad enough, another 8 under Obama was even worse. You can bitch about Trumps demeanor all you want, but the fact remains he's the sole President in more than a century to not get us involved in another foreign war. Haley would turn Ukraine into another Afghanistan and if you can't see the disaster that Afghanistan was and what Ukraine would be then you're just hopeless.

The whole reason Trump won is because he campaigned on moving this country away from everything both sides of the aisle establishment politicans want to continue. He resonated with a majority of the country in 2016 because Hillary is effectively the same person as Haley. The average person in this country, regardless of party, more or less wants the same thing from their government. Some level of fiscal responsability, a reasonably functioning economy, and to stop seeing their fucking kids shipped off to some 3rd world shithole to die for no reason other than putting money in the pockets of the wealthy. Trump only won because the establishment put the bar so fucking low that it took next to no effort to step over it. The Nicky Haley's of the world have no problem contintuing to lower that bar and that sure as shit isn't moving this country forward.
I agree with some of your points, and respectfully disagree with others. I appreciate the thought put in. Allow me to focus on 2 items so the conversation will narrow from our essays.

Regarding being a conservative, there’s a large scale of what that means, like any political title. I wouldn’t equate myself to be a conservative the way Rand Paul is, so instance. I like government intervention in lots of life’s facets, but by and large I appreciate a restriction to what I believe a government is well suited to handle. I don’t anticipate everyone would agree with my own opinions on that matter. I use the term conservative in a general sense, but to some I might as well be holding hands with AOC.

You mentioned Haley would spend money we don’t have, as a reason to not vote for her. Trump, of course, raised the national debt 8 billion dollars. To me, he’s like a teenager with a credit card. Would you agree Trump was a poor steward of the country’s checkbook?
 
Trump didn't spend the money, congress did. He signed the papers at their and his advisors behest.


It's a tough pill to swallow realizing they you have an extremely myopic world view created by your profession and geographic political location but one day you'll either find a red pill and it'll all make sense or you'll ignore it and take another cup of that delicious fucktarded Kool aide.
 
You mentioned Haley would spend money we don’t have, as a reason to not vote for her. Trump, of course, raised the national debt 8 billion dollars. To me, he’s like a teenager with a credit card. Would you agree Trump was a poor steward of the country’s checkbook?
Simple answer is yes, but I don't think the question is as simple as that. The entire COVID ordeal was unprecedented. I will freely admit that he fucked up listening to his people on how to handle it and that the spending was out of control. He certainly shares blame on that. That said, facing re-election and the country being shut down across the board I think not working with Dems and passing those bills would have absolutely killed his chances of being re-elected which may have been the entire point. Dems loaded those bills with all kinds of unrelated pork and I don't think he realistically had the option to stall and fight them on it. I can't completely condone it, but I can't blame him entirely for the spending either, nor do I think that would have been the case if COVID hadn't come along for whatever reason it did. I also think his Presidency was a net positive by a wide margin, especially compared to previous administrations and certainly every one of them in my lifetime and that's while having to fight his own party, the other party, every major media outlet on the planet, and having to deal with numerous completely bullshit impeachments and investigations.
 
Remember the fallout every time anybodybtried to stall or review or target any of the covid bills? Trillions was the compromise :shaking: terrible policy, should've let the states hang themselves. Even then, Georgia was getting absolutely drug through the swamp for "opening too soon" and the Georgia experiment. All the while, some states didn't mandate shit and came out better for it. Other states, ca and ny, cut their own necks for political gain and made massive money for the establishment, and lost tax base for it, without measurable "politcal" loss
Simple answer is yes, but I don't think the question is as simple as that. The entire COVID ordeal was unprecedented. I will freely admit that he fucked up listening to his people on how to handle it and that the spending was out of control. He certainly shares blame on that. That said, facing re-election and the country being shut down across the board I think not working with Dems and passing those bills would have absolutely killed his chances of being re-elected which may have been the entire point. Dems loaded those bills with all kinds of unrelated pork and I don't think he realistically had the option to stall and fight them on it. I can't completely condone it, but I can't blame him entirely for the spending either, nor do I think that would have been the case if COVID hadn't come along for whatever reason it did. I also think his Presidency was a net positive by a wide margin, especially compared to previous administrations and certainly every one of them in my lifetime and that's while having to fight his own party, the other party, every major media outlet on the planet, and having to deal with numerous completely bullshit impeachments and investigations.
 
Simple answer is yes, but I don't think the question is as simple as that. The entire COVID ordeal was unprecedented. I will freely admit that he fucked up listening to his people on how to handle it and that the spending was out of control. He certainly shares blame on that. That said, facing re-election and the country being shut down across the board I think not working with Dems and passing those bills would have absolutely killed his chances of being re-elected which may have been the entire point. Dems loaded those bills with all kinds of unrelated pork and I don't think he realistically had the option to stall and fight them on it. I can't completely condone it, but I can't blame him entirely for the spending either, nor do I think that would have been the case if COVID hadn't come along for whatever reason it did. I also think his Presidency was a net positive by a wide margin, especially compared to previous administrations and certainly every one of them in my lifetime and that's while having to fight his own party, the other party, every major media outlet on the planet, and having to deal with numerous completely bullshit impeachments and investigations.
Ok; understood. I appreciate the response. Fair.

For the record, as it were, there are a lot of Trump's policy positions I agreed with. Specifically, immigration, the trade war with China, and his demonstration of support for law enforcement. Obama, notably doing the Ferguson riots (which I believe set my own state on a disaster course with social justice experiments) was openly hostile to law enforcement. Governor Brown at the time joined suit, I still remember him being booed when he attended the funeral of my friend who was killed in the line of duty. Regarding immigration, I have long supported the simple premise of "If you make them feel welcome, they will stay". Whether homeless or illegal aliens (remember sanctuary cities), the open defiance of the law makes my blood boil. To Trump's credit, he sent ICE agents everywhere-- schools, churches, daycares, etc. No where was safe, and I think that is a very effective tactic. I would imagine similar policies would return upon his re-election, which I approve. Only under the extreme weight of CA's homeless problem has Newsome decided to do what he should have done all along. It's frustrating, but Democrats often put compassion above reason. Similarly, letting criminals go freely had predictable consequences.

Regarding China, I feel that it, Russia, and Iran together are modern age threats to American and European security. Whenever any of them can suffer, I support. Whatever harms their government and economies, I support. While Trump is strangely cozy to Putin, he has forcefully responded to China, and I noticed Biden meekly allowed this policies to stay in effect. I want China to feel the strength of American pressure, and I feel Trump is best suited to do that. I understand people's aversion to war. But conflict and warfare don't exist in a vacuum. They have worldwide ramifications, in both geopolitical positioning and economic effect. I respect a difference in opinion, but I have no problem with American taxpayer money being spent to live test American military might with no American lives on the line. Those stupid Iranian speedboats annoying American ships? Destroy on sight. But that's me; my opinion. I don't expect everyone to agree.

A Trump presidency's effectiveness would really come down to whatever executive orders he could pass and get away with. I'm sure Congress would spend every iota of its energy going through silly impeachment nonsense again (I don't support that obviously, for either party), and 4 years of gridlock seems exhausting.
 
Remember the fallout every time anybodybtried to stall or review or target any of the covid bills? Trillions was the compromise :shaking: terrible policy, should've let the states hang themselves. Even then, Georgia was getting absolutely drug through the swamp for "opening too soon" and the Georgia experiment. All the while, some states didn't mandate shit and came out better for it. Other states, ca and ny, cut their own necks for political gain and made massive money for the establishment, and lost tax base for it, without measurable "politcal" loss
Yeah, exactly. There was also stark contrast after Biden took office as Dems immediately stalled the covid bills and put a long pause on the extra unemployment and what not the second it suited them politically. Context makes a big difference here. I also think realistically fixing a lot of major issues without just cutting out huge parts of the government isn't going to happen without major spending. I'd much rather that spending go towards righting the ship vs maintaining the status quo of constantly bailing out Wall St and Corporate America, more wars, etc.

Ok; understood. I appreciate the response. Fair.

For the record, as it were, there are a lot of Trump's policy positions I agreed with. Specifically, immigration, the trade war with China, and his demonstration of support for law enforcement. Obama, notably doing the Ferguson riots (which I believe set my own state on a disaster course with social justice experiments) was openly hostile to law enforcement. Governor Brown at the time joined suit, I still remember him being booed when he attended the funeral of my friend who was killed in the line of duty. Regarding immigration, I have long supported the simple premise of "If you make them feel welcome, they will stay". Whether homeless or illegal aliens (remember sanctuary cities), the open defiance of the law makes my blood boil. To Trump's credit, he sent ICE agents everywhere-- schools, churches, daycares, etc. No where was safe, and I think that is a very effective tactic. I would imagine similar policies would return upon his re-election, which I approve. Only under the extreme weight of CA's homeless problem has Newsome decided to do what he should have done all along. It's frustrating, but Democrats often put compassion above reason. Similarly, letting criminals go freely had predictable consequences.

Regarding China, I feel that it, Russia, and Iran together are modern age threats to American and European security. Whenever any of them can suffer, I support. Whatever harms their government and economies, I support. While Trump is strangely cozy to Putin, he has forcefully responded to China, and I noticed Biden meekly allowed this policies to stay in effect. I want China to feel the strength of American pressure, and I feel Trump is best suited to do that.

A Trump presidency's effectiveness would really come down to whatever executive orders he could pass and get away with. I'm sure Congress would spend every iota of its energy going through silly impeachment nonsense again (I don't support that obviously, for either party), and 4 years of gridlock seems exhausting.
I don't think he's cozy with Putin, he's been diplomatic and been the only person to be diplomatic with Russia since the fall of the USSR. Everyone else has gone out of their way to keep modern Russia the classic boogeyman and excuse to grow NATO which has no business continuing to exist. Russia stays an enemy because we continue to treat them as one. Same thing with North Korea, Trump seemed cozy but the reality is he's the only one who's improved diplomacy with them since the Korean War.

Fwiw I'm not some big MAGA guy either. I had and still have issues with Trump, but he's still the best realistic option. I only voted for him in 16 because of the SCOTUS. I thought a lot of his cabinet picks were a disaster and expected the worst but was pleasantly surprised with how he handled the office and his willingness to remove cabinet members as needed. Jeff Sessions is a prime example of that, he was a fucking terrible pick and Trump wasted no time getting rid of him when he wouldn't fall in line.

You sound like you overall supportive of Trump on policy and are still hung up on the superficial shit of how he presents himself. I couldn't care less what he says or how he acts, his policies for the most part spoke for themselves as did the results and that's really all that matters. Mean tweets don't matter if you don't read them.
 
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Yeah, exactly. There was also stark contrast after Biden took office as Dems immediately stalled the covid bills and put a long pause on the extra unemployment and what not the second it suited them politically. Context makes a big difference here. I also think realistically fixing a lot of major issues without just cutting out huge parts of the government isn't going to happen without major spending. I'd much rather that spending go towards righting the ship vs maintaining the status quo of constantly bailing out Wall St and Corporate America, more wars, etc.


I don't think he's cozy with Putin, he's been diplomatic and been the only person to be diplomatic with Russia since the fall of the USSR. Everyone else has gone out of their way to keep modern Russia the classic boogeyman and excuse to grow NATO which has no business continuing to exist. Russia stays an enemy because we continue to treat them as one. Same thing with North Korea, Trump seemed cozy but the reality is he's the only one who's improved diplomacy with them since the Korean War.

Fwiw I'm not some big MAGA guy either. I had and still have issues with Trump, but he's still the best realistic option. I only voted for him in 16 because of the SCOTUS. I thought a lot of his cabinet picks were a disaster and expected the worst but was pleasantly surprised with how he handled the office and his willingness to get remove cabinet members as needed. Jeff Sessions is a prime example of that, he was a fucking terrible pick and Trump wasted no time getting rid of him when he wouldn't fall in line.

You sound like you overall supportive of Trump on policy and are still hung up on the superficial shit of how he presents himself. I couldn't care less what he says or how he acts, his policies for the most part spoke for themselves as did the results and that's really all that matters. Mean tweets don't matter if you don't read them.
Yes, kind of. There are also a slew of policies I don't like. Do I like the tax cut he gave me? Yes. But at the same time he punished blue states and prevented the write off of state taxes-- causing my taxes to rise. I prefer local government to federal, and diverting my money to the feds so that it can be spent on trans protection programs in Pakistan irks me.

I do care about the office of the presidency and our image in the world. It's one of many factors. If you aren't concerned with it, that's fine, but that doesn't end the debate. Similarly, I don't a feeble old man falling down stairs representing the United States. Image matters. It's not top of the totem pole, but it is important.

I don't believe Trump will bring the end times, or cause WW3, or anything. I just don't much care for him in general. I understand why people want him more than Harris. I humbly just would have preferred Haley, and I'm eager for a time when "MAGA" takes a back seat to more inclusionary policies. I don't think (most) democrats are demons, and I'd prefer the government work together to achieve common sense goals.
 
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Ok; understood. I appreciate the response. Fair.

For the record, as it were, there are a lot of Trump's policy positions I agreed with. Specifically, immigration, the trade war with China, and his demonstration of support for law enforcement. Obama, notably doing the Ferguson riots (which I believe set my own state on a disaster course with social justice experiments) was openly hostile to law enforcement. Governor Brown at the time joined suit, I still remember him being booed when he attended the funeral of my friend who was killed in the line of duty. Regarding immigration, I have long supported the simple premise of "If you make them feel welcome, they will stay". Whether homeless or illegal aliens (remember sanctuary cities), the open defiance of the law makes my blood boil. To Trump's credit, he sent ICE agents everywhere-- schools, churches, daycares, etc. No where was safe, and I think that is a very effective tactic. I would imagine similar policies would return upon his re-election, which I approve. Only under the extreme weight of CA's homeless problem has Newsome decided to do what he should have done all along. It's frustrating, but Democrats often put compassion above reason. Similarly, letting criminals go freely had predictable consequences.

Regarding China, I feel that it, Russia, and Iran together are modern age threats to American and European security. Whenever any of them can suffer, I support. Whatever harms their government and economies, I support. While Trump is strangely cozy to Putin, he has forcefully responded to China, and I noticed Biden meekly allowed this policies to stay in effect. I want China to feel the strength of American pressure, and I feel Trump is best suited to do that. I understand people's aversion to war. But conflict and warfare don't exist in a vacuum. They have worldwide ramifications, in both geopolitical positioning and economic effect. I respect a difference in opinion, but I have no problem with American taxpayer money being spent to live test American military might with no American lives on the line. Those stupid Iranian speedboats annoying American ships? Destroy on sight. But that's me; my opinion. I don't expect everyone to agree.

A Trump presidency's effectiveness would really come down to whatever executive orders he could pass and get away with. I'm sure Congress would spend every iota of its energy going through silly impeachment nonsense again (I don't support that obviously, for either party), and 4 years of gridlock seems exhausting.
First although I am not going to qoute that post here too you are way more a classical liberal than conservative. Secondly Russia isn't a threat to the world and never really was. Not even during the cold war when it was arguable. They have always been an inferior nation of chest puffers with bigger mouths than anything else. Russia has spent all of human hustory relying on poorly equipped, fed, and motivated conscripts to project its "power". Now they don't even have that. Just some inceredibly poorly mantained missiles rusted shut in their silos. (Seriously look up historical accounts of russian military maintenance on anything, ever, it is hilarious.) Iran is also at best a laughing stock. The closest they have ever been to world relevance is selling poor copies of poor russian design weapons. They could literally be stamped out like blowing a fucking candle and considering them a world power just proves you are hopelessly buying into msm spoon fed horseshit. Like Motorcharge said you are horrifically out of touch with the average american.
 
Yes, kind of. There are also a slew of policies I don't like. Do I like the tax cut he gave me? Yes. But at the same time he punished blue states and prevented the write off of state taxes-- causing my taxes to rise. I prefer local government to federal, and diverting my money to the feds so that it can be spent on trans protection programs in Pakistan irks me.

I do care about the office of the presidency and our image in the world. It's one of many factors. If you aren't concerned with it, that's fine, but that doesn't end the debate. Similarly, I don't a feeble old man falling down stairs representing the United States. Image matters. It's not top of the totem pole, but it is important.

I don't believe Trump will bring the end times, or cause WW3, or anything. I just don't much care for him in general. I understand why people want him more than Harris. I humbly just would have preferred Haley, and I'm eager for a time when "MAGA" takes a back seat to more inclusionary policies. I don't think (most) democrats are demons, and I'd prefer the government work together to achieve common sense goals.
Trump tax policy had it's positives and negatives. I think getting rid of the write offs for things like mileage on a personal vehicle used for work was fucking stupid. The trans protection shit I can't really blame him for. It takes time to rid of the bureaucracies of stupidity and blaming tax policy for how the bureaucrats spend the money allotted to them is a logical fallacy.

I care about our image globally to an extent as well, but you're ignoring the positives of Trump's brashness as well. The same things that people hate about him improved our image and position in the world as well. You can't argue he didn't put us first. That same brashness had China buying tea from us, it had NATO members paying their fair share for the first time in the history of NATO, it had countries like Iran thinking twice before pulling any bullshit because they knew Trump meant what he said, it had groups like ISIS on the run when he showed their leader a picture of his home and told him to his face it wouldn't be there tomorrow if they kept their bullshit up. We saw the results of that immediately when Trump left office and Biden pulled us out of Afghanistan.

MAGA policy is far more inclusive than anything coming out of the Democratic party. America first means every American. Can't point to a single policy from the Dems that does that. 10 years ago I might have agreed with you about Dems, but they've moved so far towards the authoritarian left that what you're saying about them simply isn't true anymore and hasn't been for a long time. The modern Democratic party has done nothing but divide and push us back towards segregationist policy as it blames anything and everything it can on white men and attempts to exclude them from everything.
 
First although I am not going to qoute that post here too you are way more a classical liberal than conservative. Secondly Russia isn't a threat to the world and never really was. Not even during the cold war when it was arguable. They have always been an inferior nation of chest puffers with bigger mouths than anything else. Russia has spent all of human hustory relying on poorly equipped, fed, and motivated conscripts to project its "power". Now they don't even have that. Just some inceredibly poorly mantained missiles rusted shut in their silos. (Seriously look up historical accounts of russian military maintenance on anything, ever, it is hilarious.) Iran is also at best a laughing stock. The closest they have ever been to world relevance is selling poor copies of poor russian design weapons. They could literally be stamped out like blowing a fucking candle and considering them a world power just proves you are hopelessly buying into msm spoon fed horseshit. Like Motorcharge said you are horrifically out of touch with the average american.
I didn’t say they were world powers. I said they were threats. China is both a threat and a world power. Both Russia and China are expanding their influence globally, especially Africa, which causes me great concern. Like I said, conflicts are rarely isolated in their ramifications. Certainly, foreign policy isn’t the top of my concern list, but it is important. It alone doesn’t guide my vote.

Regarding being out of touch, I’m not running for office. I vote based on what I want to see, what direction I want the country to go. You vote for you, you vote for the average American if you wish, whereas I vote for me and my family. The greatness of America comes with your freedom to vote as you see fit.

As for what I “am” I don’t really agree with identity politics. I lean conservative in a lot of my views, but I’m liberal in others. i don’t have “conservative” tattooed on my chest. I vacillate on votes as I see fit based on what I feel is most important at the time of the vote.
 
Motorcharge -

I take issue with this one comment:

"When it comes to Kennedy and vaccines, you've clearly never listened to the man because he's not even anti-vax. His whole argument is that the vaccines themselves are fine, but the issue and link to autism is the mercury used as a delivery system and that they simply need to find another method for that."

  • Mercury has been removed for quite a few years now. The only successful lawsuit against the 'vaccine industry' made the point that suing against the vehicle was not the same as suing against the vaccine itself, which was - and is - well neigh impossible.

  • Of the issues with vaccines, the basic is that they are administered to babies and children who do not yet have fully developed immune systems:
    • They are usually not breast-fed, and if so for days or weeks instead of months and months (or years; no joke).

    • They receive several vaccines at once, overwhelming whatever immune protection they have.

    • They go directly to the lowest level of the immune system, bypassing the body's layers of protection that address pathogens before they get to the the final defensive line.
Taken together, and there is more, there is a lot more to this than is ever discussed.
 
RFK Jr. just finished his speech. He is stopping his campaign and supporting Trump with a possible position in his cabinet.

He is keeping is name on the ballot in certain states but says he is removing his name on the ballot in "battle ground" states.
 
Motorcharge -

I take issue with this one comment:

"When it comes to Kennedy and vaccines, you've clearly never listened to the man because he's not even anti-vax. His whole argument is that the vaccines themselves are fine, but the issue and link to autism is the mercury used as a delivery system and that they simply need to find another method for that."

  • Mercury has been removed for quite a few years now. The only successful lawsuit against the 'vaccine industry' made the point that suing against the vehicle was not the same as suing against the vaccine itself, which was - and is - well neigh impossible.

  • Of the issues with vaccines, the basic is that they are administered to babies and children who do not yet have fully developed immune systems:
    • They are usually not breast-fed, and if so for days or weeks instead of months and months (or years; no joke).

    • They receive several vaccines at once, overwhelming whatever immune protection they have.

    • They go directly to the lowest level of the immune system, bypassing the body's layers of protection that address pathogens before they get to the the final defensive line.
Taken together, and there is more, there is a lot more to this than is ever discussed.
Thanks, I was trying to quickly paraphrase what I remembered from his Rogan episode, but that was 3 hours of content months or a year so ago so I was foggy on the recall. Generally though I knew his arguments were more than just "vaccines bad" which is what people like to pigeonhole him into.

RFK Jr. just finished his speech. He is stopping his campaign and supporting Trump with a possible position in his cabinet.

He is keeping is name on the ballot in certain states but says he is removing his name on the ballot in "battle ground" states.
Him taking a proverbial bullet like that is awfully fitting. :laughing:

Him dropping out I saw coming, him endorsing Trump not so much, this I definitely didn't see happening and with how the Dems have treated him and Jill Stein this cycle they deserve every bit of it.
 
Will be interesting to see what his voters will do now that he's endorsing Trump. I'm sure quite a few are going to feel betrayed and will vote dem. I wonder how many votes will go to Trump.
 
That was a good speech, he gave. I support Trump, but would of kinda liked him as a president. His anti gun stuff is a red line for me though.
 
Trump didn't spend the money, congress did. He signed the papers at their and his advisors behest.


It's a tough pill to swallow realizing they you have an extremely myopic world view created by your profession and geographic political location but one day you'll either find a red pill and it'll all make sense or you'll ignore it and take another cup of that delicious fucktarded Kool aide.
This is where I have found myself just laughing at Trump people who parrot shit like this. The man is a walking, orange Messiah to so many.

Trump didn't spend the money? Congress did? He just signed for it? Only because his advisors told him to?

Do you realize how stupid that is?

Yeah man, we has the poors now and we are losing our house because we can't pay the payments. Sure, we have this new boat, new motorhome, had the kitchen remodeled but it's all my wife's fault. She spent all the money but yeah, I agreed and signed the checks but only because my friend told me to!! Fucking women man, ya know. How could she do this to us?

Just say Trump fucked up. Just say that Trump contributed massively to the inflation that we have going. Just say that Biden really came in Super Sized what Trump started. Just say that Trump was gullible, when he should have been more cautious and not taken people's advice so easily. Just say that Trump should have pushed back and taken some political hits instead of spending crazy money so that shit looked okay on paper.

It's okay man. Trump will still not know who you are, or care, but he will still throw his love out through the TV while you are on your Trump prayer mat of orange, shag carpet!!

Throwing out that anyone else has an "extremely myopic world view" just adds a nice layer of icing onto the whole thing.

Dumbest shit I have read since 2 hours ago.
 
This is where I have found myself just laughing at Trump people who parrot shit like this. The man is a walking, orange Messiah to so many.

Trump didn't spend the money? Congress did? He just signed for it? Only because his advisors told him to?

Do you realize how stupid that is?

Yeah man, we has the poors now and we are losing our house because we can't pay the payments. Sure, we have this new boat, new motorhome, had the kitchen remodeled but it's all my wife's fault. She spent all the money but yeah, I agreed and signed the checks but only because my friend told me to!! Fucking women man, ya know. How could she do this to us?

Just say Trump fucked up. Just say that Trump contributed massively to the inflation that we have going. Just say that Biden really came in Super Sized what Trump started. Just say that Trump was gullible, when he should have been more cautious and not taken people's advice so easily. Just say that Trump should have pushed back and taken some political hits instead of spending crazy money so that shit looked okay on paper.

It's okay man. Trump will still not know who you are, or care, but he will still throw his love out through the TV while you are on your Trump prayer mat of orange, shag carpet!!

Throwing out that anyone else has an "extremely myopic world view" just adds a nice layer of icing onto the whole thing.

Dumbest shit I have read since 2 hours ago.


You didn't read your own post once you typed it out obviously. :flipoff2:


He absolutely did sign the spending bullshit. No changing that. Do I think he did it understanding exactly what kind of fucking it was going to put on the population? Probably not but he signed it anyway and that is on him for not reading all 1000+ pages of stupidity that they needed to sign so they'd know what was in it as madam piglosi so infamously stated.


Cheetojesus is not my messiah, I know he's a dick and as far from a politician as we have available these days and that's why I like him. He's fucked up and he's done a lot of good, if we could get the dumb fuck gop to back him and put forth bills worth passing instead of siding with the swamp creatures in trying to impeach him for another 4 years I do think we can get the country back on track. Unless someone else comes along that's better or at least as good as I think he could be he's got my backing.

Just look at the executive orders he signed while in office and you'll see who he really is and what he was trying to to do while getting lambasted for every single squirrel fart in the county.
 
You didn't read your own post once you typed it out obviously. :flipoff2:


He absolutely did sign the spending bullshit. No changing that. Do I think he did it understanding exactly what kind of fucking it was going to put on the population? Probably not but he signed it anyway and that is on him for not reading all 1000+ pages of stupidity that they needed to sign so they'd know what was in it as madam piglosi so infamously stated.


Cheetojesus is not my messiah, I know he's a dick and as far from a politician as we have available these days and that's why I like him. He's fucked up and he's done a lot of good, if we could get the dumb fuck gop to back him and put forth bills worth passing instead of siding with the swamp creatures in trying to impeach him for another 4 years I do think we can get the country back on track. Unless someone else comes along that's better or at least as good as I think he could be he's got my backing.

Just look at the executive orders he signed while in office and you'll see who he really is and what he was trying to to do while getting lambasted for every single squirrel fart in the county.
A fucking 12 year old can figure out that if we throw 3 times the money into the a Monopoly game, that money isn't as valuable. Better known in the grown up world, as Trump have lived his whole life, as inflation. You seriously think he doesn't know that or didn't? That is what you just said essentially.

Pelosi made that comment about the ACA. Not spending bullshit during Covid

He has my support as well because he is the last one standing against the dems. That is about the only reason why. Even in your walk-back you still are treating him like Jill treats Joe. "Good job Trump. You answered all the questions. It's ok you don't know what inflation is or how spending 8 trillion fucking dollars will affect everyone. Let's get some pudding and ice cream."
 
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