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Boss said:
What's the cost to dispose of t these things when they're depleted?
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landfill

they're pretty much just silicon and glass and a little bit of wire/solder
oh and an aluminum frame, and sealed with silicone (or urethane, but important to contrast the difference that the E at the end makes)
 
[486] said:
landfill

they're pretty much just silicon and glass and a little bit of wire/solder
oh and an aluminum frame, and sealed with silicone (or urethane, but important to contrast the difference that the E at the end makes)
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And lead, cadmium, and some other nasty stuff. Right now the goto "disposal" method is to ship them to the middle east and they use them even when they are only doing 5% of rated.
 
larboc said:
And lead, cadmium, and some other nasty stuff. Right now the goto "disposal" method is to ship them to the middle east and they use them even when they are only doing 5% of rated.
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No worse than the piles of smashed tube TVs and other electronics that are already in the landfills.
Besides, they prolly got that shitty tin-whiskery lead free solder in them now, so they turn to shit in only a few years instead of decades, whoo "green progress"

ETA: I did try and buy some used ones a bit ago, someone else got them first, a 16kw setup for 5k with racking and inverters, figured even if it were degraded to a quarter what it should be putting out that's still a hell of a deal to stick out in my swamp.
 
[486] said:
No worse than the piles of smashed tube TVs and other electronics that are already in the landfills.
Besides, they prolly got that shitty tin-whiskery lead free solder in them now, so they turn to shit in only a few years instead of decades, whoo "green progress"

ETA: I did try and buy some used ones a bit ago, someone else got them first, a 16kw setup for 5k with racking and inverters, figured even if it were degraded to a quarter what it should be putting out that's still a hell of a deal to stick out in my swamp.
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I pussed out but several times I found 300+ watt panels for $50, an array big enough to keep my shop ac at 75 would be stellar.
 
the inverters are a big cost, they never seem to come up used when compared to panels
Imagine they get lightning'd more often, or they get reused with the fresh new panels going up in the place of the used ones coming down...
 
[486] said:
the inverters are a big cost, they never seem to come up used when compared to panels
Imagine they get lightning'd more often, or they get reused with the fresh new panels going up in the place of the used ones coming down...
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At least on the big scale, panels are budgeted to last 25-30 years (minus breakage) with an expected degradation. Warranty claims due to failures of various types can bring about large scale swap outs.

Inverters are more of a 10-12 year thing before replacement/repower.
 
RPS1030 said:
At least on the big scale, panels are budgeted to last 25-30 years (minus breakage) with an expected degradation. Warranty claims due to failures of various types can bring about large scale swap outs.

Inverters are more of a 10-12 year thing before replacement/repower.
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Except microinverters, enphase at least are 25 year.
 
DATA!
June30-July29
Delivered from utility 242 kWh
Exported to utility 1054 kWh
Resulting net utility +812kWh
Inverter generation 1193 kWh

Ran the AC a couple days, panels are hotter, days are getting shorter. Still matching or exceeding the generation models well.

I just realized I've got 2900kWh banked on my account as of Aug. 1 with the utility so I clearly pooched my consumption estimation/system sizing and need to figure out something to do with my excess generation. Thinking either ground source heat pump, or an EV.
 
[486] said:
the inverters are a big cost, they never seem to come up used when compared to panels
Imagine they get lightning'd more often, or they get reused with the fresh new panels going up in the place of the used ones coming down...
Click to expand...
The older versions of the Enphase units are around $150-200.
 
larboc said:
DATA!
June30-July29
Delivered from utility 242 kWh
Exported to utility 1054 kWh
Resulting net utility +812kWh
Inverter generation 1193 kWh

Ran the AC a couple days, panels are hotter, days are getting shorter. Still matching or exceeding the generation models well.

I just realized I've got 2900kWh banked on my account as of Aug. 1 with the utility so I clearly pooched my consumption estimation/system sizing and need to figure out something to do with my excess generation. Thinking either ground source heat pump, or an EV.
Click to expand...
Your untility credits on KwHr?

Mine did that when they first brought on allowing grid tied systems in 2012. I was one of the first couple customers and very shortly after I signed the contract with them, they changed it to where they buy the power monthly at wholesale. (0.05 KwHr vs ~0.21KwHr they charge). Pretty much made the system go from a 7-8 year payoff to nearly never.
 
AKnate said:
Your untility credits on KwHr?

Mine did that when they first brought on allowing grid tied systems in 2012. I was one of the first couple customers and very shortly after I signed the contract with them, they changed it to where they buy the power monthly at wholesale. (0.05 KwHr vs ~0.21KwHr they charge). Pretty much made the system go from a 7-8 year payoff to nearly never.
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Correct, 1:1 net. If that weren't the case I wouldn't have done it. The "connection charge" is pretty high which helps them. $25/month regardless of usage.
I'm not sure what I'd do if they changed their terms, it would hurt my payback for sure. I'd have to look really hard at an AC coupled battery. They tried to do what you're talking about a few years ago and the people with solar made a big enough stink about it that they rescinded and went back to net. The agreement I signed reads like it's going to be 1:1 net for at least as long as I'm at the this address.
 
larboc said:
Correct, 1:1 net. If that weren't the case I wouldn't have done it. The "connection charge" is pretty high which helps them. $25/month regardless of usage.
I'm not sure what I'd do if they changed their terms, it would hurt my payback for sure. I'd have to look really hard at an AC coupled battery. They tried to do what you're talking about a few years ago and the people with solar made a big enough stink about it that they rescinded and went back to net. The agreement I signed reads like it's going to be 1:1 net for at least as long as I'm at the this address.
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The contract I had, had in "tiny print", that they could change the terms whenever they wanted. IE it was a worthless contract.
 
AKnate said:
The older versions of the Enphase units are around $150-200.
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iirc enphase are 1 panel per inverter
cool if you're piecing together a little setup on a mess of a roof with partial shade and shit

rather spendy if you're just gonna be racking up a shitload of degraded panels over a swamp where they'd be best off chained together
 
[486] said:
iirc enphase are 1 panel per inverter
cool if you're piecing together a little setup on a mess of a roof with partial shade and shit

rather spendy if you're just gonna be racking up a shitload of degraded panels over a swamp where they'd be best off chained together
Click to expand...

Pretty much.

They are the way to go on a small roof array, mainly because they satisfy RSD requirements.
 
larboc said:
DATA!
June30-July29
Delivered from utility 242 kWh
Exported to utility 1054 kWh
Resulting net utility +812kWh
Inverter generation 1193 kWh

Ran the AC a couple days, panels are hotter, days are getting shorter. Still matching or exceeding the generation models well.

I just realized I've got 2900kWh banked on my account as of Aug. 1 with the utility so I clearly pooched my consumption estimation/system sizing and need to figure out something to do with my excess generation. Thinking either ground source heat pump, or an EV.
Click to expand...
Heat pump water heater?
 
[486] said:
iirc enphase are 1 panel per inverter
cool if you're piecing together a little setup on a mess of a roof with partial shade and shit

rather spendy if you're just gonna be racking up a shitload of degraded panels over a swamp where they'd be best off chained together
Click to expand...
I can't imagine you can use all random sorts of panels to their full protentional with a ganged inverter.
 
AKnate said:
I can't imagine you can use all random sorts of panels to their full protentional with a ganged inverter.
Click to expand...
you don't buy them one by one, you buy whole lots of them, then pair them up by tested output into strings
 
[486] said:
you don't buy them one by one, you buy whole lots of them, then pair them up by tested output into strings
Click to expand...
Can also do optimizers, like solar edge, but the roi is not likely there.
 
In my state until a couple of years ago, the utility wouldn’t buy the power at all if you didn’t own the panels free and clear
If you financed the system they wouldn’t buy the power .

And yet the utility runs commercials all the time about how green they are etc
Nothing but bulshit
 
the persistent solar salesman is quoting me a IQ8+ enphase system with sunlight backup power.

Understanding Sunlight Backup system for homeowners | Enphase

I will share with the class.

My annual usage
1660088138291.png
 
looking up some changes to the rules and thought this was interesting.

Rocky Mountain Power servicing Idaho got a change approved to their solar incentive program. "net metering" and paying at retail rates was costing too much and "shifting the burden to non-solar customers" to offset the difference. They were approved to start paying a lower wholesale rate, taking their estimated solar payback period from 9 years to ~14 years.


powerpoint slideshow above explaining the changes and why and basis for reducing cost.

and then they also started a different incentive program to where they are seeking to get more people to install batteries. Due to the rise and fall nature of solar power and the steady consumption of a home, they want to greatly increase the grid connected battery banks to help smooth out the power generation concerns. Starting off with incentive only for solar customers, but with a planned expansion so that the batteries could be charged from the grid for the inevitable "we are making way too much useless solar power from 11am-3pm" which is pretty damn reasonable.

Wattsmart Battery program

www.rockymountainpower.net www.rockymountainpower.net
 
Provience said:
looking up some changes to the rules and thought this was interesting.

Rocky Mountain Power servicing Idaho got a change approved to their solar incentive program. "net metering" and paying at retail rates was costing too much and "shifting the burden to non-solar customers" to offset the difference. They were approved to start paying a lower wholesale rate, taking their estimated solar payback period from 9 years to ~14 years.


powerpoint slideshow above explaining the changes and why and basis for reducing cost.

and then they also started a different incentive program to where they are seeking to get more people to install batteries. Due to the rise and fall nature of solar power and the steady consumption of a home, they want to greatly increase the grid connected battery banks to help smooth out the power generation concerns. Starting off with incentive only for solar customers, but with a planned expansion so that the batteries could be charged from the grid for the inevitable "we are making way too much useless solar power from 11am-3pm" which is pretty damn reasonable.

Wattsmart Battery program

www.rockymountainpower.net www.rockymountainpower.net
Click to expand...
Why are they talking about battery "kW"? I assume it's a typo or they don't know what they are talking about.
 

Mission Solar Energy MSE415SX6Z :: 415W Module, MSE PERC 72 Series, 72 Cell, All Black :: PLATT ELECTRIC SUPPLY

415 Watt, 72 cell, 1500V DC, High Power PERC, All Black, 40MM Frame *** Item is in Manufacturer Allocation. Quantity is Subject to Approval ***, Cat #: MSE415SX6Z, Mfr: Mission Solar Energy
www.platt.com www.platt.com

www.solarelectricsupply.com

Mission Solar MSE375SQ9S 375W PERC 72 Solar Panel

Low wholesale pricing on this 375W and other Mission Solar PERC 72 5BB solar modules. Made in the USA. Call for expert reviews and complete systems.
www.solarelectricsupply.com www.solarelectricsupply.com


Mission Solar | Solar Energy Modules in Texas

Mission Solar in San Antonio, TX engineers modules under the strictest quality standards. Get in touch with us.
www.missionsolar.com www.missionsolar.com

guess i'm tossing my fictional money and fictional weight behind mission solar :laughing:
 
larboc said:
Why are they talking about battery "kW"? I assume it's a typo or they don't know what they are talking about.
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i'd imagine it is KW hours worth of battery

sonnenusa.com

sonnen Products | sonnen

View sonnen's line of residential home battery systems for safe, reliable backup power ranging from eco, ecoLinx and sonnenCore.
sonnenusa.com sonnenusa.com

sonnen looks to be the only current supplier based on the FAQ's, and they only appear to offer a 10kwH and a 30kwH option
 
larboc said:
Damn dude, turn a light off once in awhile!
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haha
I have the lowest usage of anyone I know.
Our wreckless friends who moved into their 2300 sq ft McMansion run the AC at 68 and last month used over 3800 kwh :eek:
$565 bill...
 
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