Red side has the Golden Ring.........now what?

[RusM]

Wait until you hear about project 2026, the U.S. and Argentinian alliance and their plan to conquer Africa.

 

[bgaidan]

They're trying, but the quality isn't there yet. We tried shifting some things to Mexico, and ended up shifting back to China because it was cheaper and higher quality.

Child labor gets shit done.


But hey, at least you'll get that TV for $240.

 

[IowaOffRoad]

No I get the point completely. The point is political gamesmanship with his base, most of whom think manufacturing is going to magically come back to the US and prices will fall.

That is one level of analysis.
Do you, or do you not, understand reciprocal tariffs? Meaning, if someone won't allow your goods into their country without onerous tariffs, you will reciprocate?
You brought up soybeans. The reason the chinese didn't tariff US beans, they banned purchase of them. And, they wouldn't have done that if they didn't have a ready supply. Unlike the US, they are not in the position of being able to not import food. They cannot produce enough grain of any type, nor protein, nor vegetables to keep 1.4 (or 1.2 if you believe other estimates) billion people fed.
You keep using consumer electronics as the benchmark here. Yes, most of that is produced in China, and yes, its likely not coming back in any real way to the US. Who fucking cares if you can get a TV for 240 vs 300, really? None of that shit is a national security issue. What is a national security issue is the type of heavy industry that can be turned off and on war production if necessary. The ability of the US to produce boats, tanks, jeeps, airplanes, rockets, rifles, and bullets at a rate that could very easily outstrip attrition rates in a conflict is as much of a deterrent to belligerent nations as a 5th generation fighter, supercarrier, or a nuke is.

Just because you are involved in an industry that is predicated on selling people products that go to shit every 1-3 years, convincing them that's the norm and what people should want, and need the lowest common denominator for cost to maximize profits isn't a reason why tariffs shouldn't be used in a strategic manner.

Build me a flatscreen with good features that the backlight won't quit on for 10 years and I'll pay a grand for it, especially if there was a decent warranty and/or the ability to repair. I'll say the same about a toaster, refrigerator, or wash machine too.

 

[rockota]

Why Obama care? Because taxpayers are paying for free healthcare for millions of welfare leeches. It’s the reason the cost of insurance has doubled or tripled.

Naw… that’s always going to happen.

Obamacare is a poison pill for the entire system. It out final decisions in bureaucrat hands, caused prices to rise significantly and personal control to be lost.

 

[ApeEater]

None of that shit is a national security issue. What is a national security issue is the type of heavy industry that can be turned off and on war production if necessary. The ability of the US to produce boats, tanks, jeeps, airplanes, rockets, rifles, and bullets at a rate that could very easily outstrip attrition rates in a conflict is as much of a deterrent to belligerent nations as a 5th generation fighter, supercarrier, or a nuke is.

politics has ruined that more than industry or outsourcing. Every politician in Washington has to have some military industrial complex vendor making pieces of equipment. There's no reason an F35 needs to be made up of parts from 9 countries and god knows how many states.

Just because you are involved in an industry that is predicated on selling people products that go to shit every 1-3 years, convincing them that's the norm and what people should want, and need the lowest common denominator for cost to maximize profits isn't a reason why tariffs shouldn't be used in a strategic manner.

Build me a flatscreen with good features that the backlight won't quit on for 10 years and I'll pay a grand for it, especially if there was a decent warranty and/or the ability to repair. I'll say the same about a toaster, refrigerator, or wash machine too.

Man, I wish we could get back to product longevity, but no one is willing to pay for it. A US made HDMI cable would be $60, instead of $8 we pay today.

Naw… that’s always going to happen.

Obamacare is a poison pill for the entire system. It out final decisions in bureaucrat hands, caused prices to rise significantly and personal control to be lost.

Obamacare has directly increased health insurance costs. The well-intentioned cap on administrative expenses for insurance carriers just led to carriers purchasing health-care providers so they could raise the price of service, therefore increasing the net profit dollars of the insurance companies.

 

[IowaOffRoad]

Man, I wish we could get back to product longevity, but no one is willing to pay for it. A US made HDMI cable would be $60, instead of $8 we pay today.

Not true. A phone is a consumer electronic. There are <$100 smartphones out there right now running a conventional OS. Why aren't most people buying them instead of a Samsung or Apple?
Compete on quality and features and you may be surprised what people will buy.
Besides, if EVERYONE has to pay the tariff in your industry, doesn't that raise everyone's pricing floor? Who are you competing with in the US market that doesn't have to pay the tariff for the same quality? If it's about being competitive, and you believe you have a comparable product, don't all your competitors have the same issue?
Where are the non-tariffed products of the same quality coming from that outcompete you on price? What brand(s)?

So I can go buy them

 

[Gregj50!!!!!]

 

[ApeEater]

Not true. A phone is a consumer electronic. There are <$100 smartphones out there right now running a conventional OS. Why aren't most people buying them instead of a Samsung or Apple?
Compete on quality and features and you may be surprised what people will buy.

umm, that's what I said. No one buys the cheap phones because they're garbage. What does that have to do with punishing American consumers for buying a Chinese made phone that has no domestic competitor?

Besides, if EVERYONE has to pay the tariff in your industry, doesn't that raise everyone's pricing floor? Who are you competing with in the US market that doesn't have to pay the tariff for the same quality? If it's about being competitive, and you believe you have a comparable product, don't all your competitors have the same issue?
Where are the non-tariffed products of the same quality coming from that outcompete you on price? What brand(s)?

So I can go buy them

WTF are you talking about? There are no domestic suppliers for MOST of the tariffed items. US citizens will just get 25-100% price increases, depending on how badly Trump decides to fuck us.

 

[kschaper75]

Being I try to be healthy, this makes me happy

 

[IowaOffRoad]

umm, that's what I said. No one buys the cheap phones because they're garbage.

So... building a quality product will sell? You just said nobody will pay for quality...

What does that have to do with punishing American consumers for buying a Chinese made phone that has no domestic competitor?

So why does your outfit care if you are paying a tariff if everyone else does too? All of your prices have increased by the same amount. You make the same amount you did before. People are still buying the shit. Nobody this election cycle cycle cited "high consumer electronic prices" as a reason they feel like they have less than 4 years ago.

WTF are you talking about? There are no domestic suppliers for MOST of the tariffed items. US citizens will just get 25-100% price increases, depending on how badly Trump decides to fuck us.

So why did nobody notice these 25-100% price increases TO THIS DAY on these products? You said the company ate it for 2 years... It's been 6 since many of them were implemented and Biden kept most of them in place.
Explain for the class.

THE ONLY WAY YOUR ARGUMENT MAKES ANY SENSE IS IF THERE IS AN ALTERNATIVE TO YOUR BUSINESS MODEL THAT WILL WIN OUT IF CHINESE PRODUCTS ARE NO LONGER COMPETITIVE WITH THAT ALTERNATIVE.

I understand your point and accept the premise, I just don't accept that they are, or must always be, a net loss for the average American. Why do you claim ignorance of mine? The only reason is what is in all caps above.

 

[ApeEater]

So... building a quality product will sell? You just said nobody will pay for quality...

because that $1300 Chinese phone is a $6000 US made phone.

So why does your outfit care if you are paying a tariff if everyone else does too? All of your prices have increased by the same amount. You make the same amount you did before. People are still buying the shit. Nobody this election cycle cycle cited "high consumer electronic prices" as a reason they feel like they have less than 4 years ago.

Who said anything about any outfit. I, Ape Eater, am tired of my ever increasing tax bill, and more tariffs are just going to make it go up.

So why did nobody notice these 25-100% price increases TO THIS DAY on these products? You said the company ate it for 2 years... It's been 6 since many of them were implemented and Biden kept most of them in place.
Explain for the class.

THE ONLY WAY YOUR ARGUMENT MAKES ANY SENSE IS IF THERE IS AN ALTERNATIVE TO YOUR BUSINESS MODEL THAT WILL WIN OUT IF CHINESE PRODUCTS ARE NO LONGER COMPETITIVE WITH THAT ALTERNATIVE.

I understand your point and accept the premise, I just don't accept that they are, or must always be, a net loss for the average American. Why do you claim ignorance of mine? The only reason is what is in all caps above.

Prices went up. I had the price lists at the time. Tariffs are always a 100% guaranteed net loss for Americans. We pay tariffs, not the manufacturers. It is a sales tax paid by you and me.

 

[IowaOffRoad]

because that $1300 Chinese phone is a $6000 US made phone.

And?

Who said anything about any outfit. I, Ape Eater, am tired of my ever increasing tax bill, and more tariffs are just going to make it go up.

You did, in your original post.

That's not true. At the time I worked for a company that imports consumer electronics from China. I guarantee you have multiple products in your house with their name on it. We brought in import experts who applied for temporary exemptions on basically all of the tariffs. We sold through inventory we already had in the US. We brought in as much as possible during the exemption periods. We ate the cost of the tariffs for a few months, as we worked with retailers to negotiate price increases. This delayed the effects of the tariffs by at least 2 years.

Then we worked with our Chinese factories, and coordinated with them as they opened factories in Vietnam and other AsiaPAC countries. They then set their pricing from these new factories to 5% less than the tariff price. These factories are in areas with less established trade logistics, so lead times went from 90 days to 180 days.

End result, supply chain issues that were brought into the public eye during Covid, 20% higher profits for China, and 25% higher costs for the US consumer.

edit: oh, and our OKC based company wrote millions of dollars more in checks to US Customs to pay for the new import tariffs. US consumers pay tariffs.

Prices went up. I had the price lists at the time. Tariffs are always a 100% guaranteed net loss for Americans. We pay tariffs, not the manufacturers. It is a sales tax paid by you and me.

American consumers have a choice. None of these products are necessities for life. The true cost of the product is what you are willing to pay. Don't like the price, don't buy.

40 years ago none of this stuff was made in China. Why do you assume that there is no way none of it will come back? Why do you assume that its a bad thing if its made in India or Taiwan vs the CCP?

I have never said the costs wouldn't get passed on. I said that they should be used strategically. Also, as a tax, it is the only truly constitutional one.

I'll go on record:
1000% tariff on imported goods from China, 0 federal income tax.

 

[cervelorod]

Have you not seen the ads with black people in them stating that they got healthcare plans for no money at all? These are welfare leeches. My aunt Debbie is a millionaire. She has Obama care.

pics of Aunt Debbie...

 

[89islandeer]

Man, I wish we could get back to product longevity, but no one is willing to pay for it. A US made HDMI cable would be $60, instead of $8 we pay today.

For something like a cable, there would have to be some way to prove that it lasts longer and has better data transfer than that of the cheap cable to get people to buy it. Why buy one of those $60 Monster cables at Best Buy when I can pop in once a year and get the $8 cable (assuming the cheap one doesn't actually last longer than a year, which I find isn't usually the case).

Honestly the advertising is what would help with American manufacturing/products. People buy the cheap washing machine that falls apart in a few years compared to the more expensive Speed Queen, I don't ever see any ads for them showing why they are the better long term option, yet I constantly see ads for the next best washer that has wi-fi, bluetooth, can "detect" how long to wash your shit, and can order new detergent from Amazon with Alexa.

As an aside, can Teflon Don do something about all these damn car insurance ads that are probably part of the reason for the high prices? They don't fucking say anything about why you should go with them other than switching can save you money (which usually happens regardless of who you switch to), and that you can choose your insurance (which everyone offers).

 

[JR4X]

Naw… that’s always going to happen.

Obamacare is a poison pill for the entire system. It out final decisions in bureaucrat hands, caused prices to rise significantly and personal control to be lost.

Obamacare ruined my bad ass health insurance at the time. And it’s only gotten more expensive and covered less since then. The government is reason insurance sucks and it’s definitely the democrats that are responsible for that.

“We have to pass it to see what’s in it”
Nancy Pelosi

“If you like your insurance you can keep your insurance”
Also Nancy Pelosi

 

[Void_of_Light]

I'm waiting for the ultimate hail mary.

Dems admitting Trump won in 2020 therefore is not allowed to hold office for a third term.

 

[0ilburner]

I didn't read every post, but could we at least get rid of the EV mandate?
Make America V8 Again!

 

[rockota]

Obamacare ruined my bad ass health insurance at the time. And it’s only gotten more expensive and covered less since then. The government is reason insurance sucks and it’s definitely the democrats that are responsible for that.

“We have to pass it to see what’s in it”
Nancy Pelosi

“If you like your insurance you can keep your insurance”
Also Nancy Pelosi

My first 5 years at the company I worked at when ACA passed… total cost was $250… and that was the dental annual copay.

No other costs. None. Zero. I could go to a chiropractor twice a week if I wanted.

When ACA was going through the system, the VP of HR got all of the US folks on a video call and said… “it’s over.” The Cadillac plan tax was going to cost them $1.4 BILLION (with a B) annually….

 

[shortbus4x4]

I think the physical wall is just symbolic. The real deterrent will be enforcing what the wall represents!

Walls are only as good as the men guarding them.

 

[Void_of_Light]

I didn't read every post, but could we at least get rid of the EV mandate?
Make America V8 Again!

I drove by our little ford dealership today, and I bet there are 12 new Broncos out front. The lot is full and nothing is moving. Hopefully a bunch of BS rules get removed so they can make cars people want at prices they can afford. $60k base model vehicles ain't gonna cut it.

Just checked the website, there are 14, lowest priced is about 45k highest is 96k.

 

[Dethmachinefab]

Enconomy pulls back hard after gutting the federal government to the bare minimum. The fake money propping it up ends. Short term pain to accomplish the goal of a debt free small gov US.
This is known and planned for. The path to prosperity is conquest of resource rich Africa. A coalition force with Argentina will form as their new government encounteres the same issues. Rhodesian rebels are ready to recapture Zimbabwe with US military backing. Industry to be given free reign to extract resources and land given to US citizens with no taxes as long as they establish homesteads.

I may have seen the attack plans. Might share later.

 

[RusM]

Enconomy pulls back hard after gutting the federal government to the bare minimum. The fake money propping it up ends. Short term pain to accomplish the goal of a debt free small gov US.
This is known and planned for. The path to prosperity is conquest of resource rich Africa. A coalition force with Argentina will form as their new government encounteres the same issues. Rhodesian rebels are ready to recapture Zimbabwe with US military backing. Industry to be given free reign to extract resources and land given to US citizens with no taxes as long as they establish homesteads.

I may have seen the attack plans. Might share later.

I've had this memory for a while, I was about 12 and I'd bought myself a Soldier of Fortune magazine. It had a quite lengthy article about some guys plan to take back Rhodesia in the early 80's I'm guessing? The Article was pretty in depth and probably out of my league at the time. It ended up with a plane load of mercenaries being arrested right as they were about to take off and implement their plan.

I've tried several times recently to search for this article or anything related to it and come up with nothing. Did I just make this shit up in my head? Or was it real?


Also, we need to take over Mexico and Canada before trying an overseas deployment like capturing Africa. Be good training for the main event.

Pax Trumpana to you all!

 

[ApeEater]

Enconomy pulls back hard after gutting the federal government to the bare minimum. The fake money propping it up ends. Short term pain to accomplish the goal of a debt free small gov US.
This is known and planned for. The path to prosperity is conquest of resource rich Africa. A coalition force with Argentina will form as their new government encounteres the same issues. Rhodesian rebels are ready to recapture Zimbabwe with US military backing. Industry to be given free reign to extract resources and land given to US citizens with no taxes as long as they establish homesteads.

I may have seen the attack plans. Might share later.

China already won the Africa takeover war.

 

[SLOWPOKE693]

Get fuel prices back down. Bet that makes things affordable enough that people don't feel the hurt when buying groceries.

Don't you worry about that, the oil and gas industry in this country is about to explode again now that Trump is back. I can already hear the oil rigs getting warmed up from my corner of Texas.

And on a side note..... Im gonna make a fuckton of money these next 4yrs with the oil fields and construction booming again.

 

[ApeEater]

And?

And no one wants a $6000 phone or $60 phone cord.

You did, in your original post.

To provide background for the comment I was making.

American consumers have a choice. None of these products are necessities for life. The true cost of the product is what you are willing to pay. Don't like the price, don't buy.

40 years ago none of this stuff was made in China. Why do you assume that there is no way none of it will come back? Why do you assume that its a bad thing if its made in India or Taiwan vs the CCP?

Africa will be the next cheap labor exploitation area, but China already bought most of the governments there.

I have never said the costs wouldn't get passed on. I said that they should be used strategically. Also, as a tax, it is the only truly constitutional one.

If the proposals were strategic we wouldn’t be having this discussion.

I'll go on record:
1000% tariff on imported goods from China, 0 federal income tax.

 

[ApeEater]

Don't you worry about that, the oil and gas industry in this country is about to explode again now that Trump is back. I can already hear the oil rigs getting warmed up from my corner of Texas.

And on a side note..... Im gonna make a fuckton of money these next 4yrs with the oil fields and construction booming again.

Oil is at $73/bbl now. We’re already producing more oil than we ever have before, and more than anyone else in the world. Why would they want to drill more and tank the price?

 

[Gtrplyr78]

Bend over.
Grab your ankles.

We should know by 2nd quarter what we are in for.

 

[Firstram]

Walls are only as good as the men guarding them.

That’s why I mentioned “The real deterrent will be enforcing what the wall represents“
We have people guarding the border now

 

[SLOWPOKE693]

Oil is at $73/bbl now. We’re already producing more oil than we ever have before, and more than anyone else in the world. Why would they want to drill more and tank the price?

Price gets lower and everything made from or with petroleum becomes dirt cheap, including shipping said product. I'm not seeing a problem and if oil is so cheap right now why are fuel prices and shipping costs still so high? 🤔 I'll take pre Biden fuel prices back, please and thank you.

 

[shortbus4x4]

Enconomy pulls back hard after gutting the federal government to the bare minimum. The fake money propping it up ends. Short term pain to accomplish the goal of a debt free small gov US.
This is known and planned for. The path to prosperity is conquest of resource rich Africa. A coalition force with Argentina will form as their new government encounteres the same issues. Rhodesian rebels are ready to recapture Zimbabwe with US military backing. Industry to be given free reign to extract resources and land given to US citizens with no taxes as long as they establish homesteads.

I may have seen the attack plans. Might share later.

Resource rich Africa? Ha ha. I've been through Zimbabwe and lived in Zambia for 3 years as a kid. I don't think it's worth the investment.