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Rear axle spindle tech

Not a guru but I’d never miss an opportunity to talk shit on a 14B. The rear axle in my crawler is a 9” with 14B outers. Biggest mistake of the build. The older 14B housings everyone loves to rave about are made out of cheese and bend so easy it’s crazy. 1 out of 10 stars, do not recommend.

On our race cars we are using D60 stuff from Solid Axle Industries on RuffStuff 10” housings. We have a local machine shop make us our flange that a 6 bolt GM 60 spindle from SAI bolts onto. We press that onto the housing and weld it. I like the unit bearings but dad doesn’t so we compromise and modify 60 stuff into a unitized serviceable unit. I can change one of dads UB’s in 20 minutes and taking the tire off is 1/2 the time of the swap.

If you want to start with 40 spline I think 11 up unit bearings from Branik with their drive flanges is the way to go. They will do the 8 on 6 1/2 pattern for you and have some nice rotor solutions as well.
 
JR4X said:
Not a guru but I’d never miss an opportunity to talk shit on a 14B. The rear axle in my crawler is a 9” with 14B outers. Biggest mistake of the build. The older 14B housings everyone loves to rave about are made out of cheese and bend so easy it’s crazy. 1 out of 10 stars, do not recommend.
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Don't let the rock bouncers hear you say that. 14b is their Jesus :laughing:

JR4X said:
On our race cars we are using D60 stuff from Solid Axle Industries on RuffStuff 10” housings. We have a local machine shop make us our flange that a 6 bolt GM 60 spindle from SAI bolts onto. We press that onto the housing and weld it. I like the unit bearings but dad doesn’t so we compromise and modify 60 stuff into a unitized serviceable unit. I can change one of dads UB’s in 20 minutes and taking the tire off is 1/2 the time of the swap.

If you want to start with 40 spline I think 11 up unit bearings from Branik with their drive flanges is the way to go. They will do the 8 on 6 1/2 pattern for you and have some nice rotor solutions as well.
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If you're going to weld on new spindles, I really like the idea of them being bolt on, especially if it's the same spindles as your front.
 
JR4X would that machine shop be willing to make more if someone wanted to buy a set?
 
YotaAtieToo said:
Don't let the rock bouncers hear you say that. 14b is their Jesus :laughing:
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Trust me I know. Edit. I do like the center section of a 14B. I don’t like the ratio selection or the housing selection. If Torq Motorsports hadn’t F’d up so bad I’d have a dropout 14B in the back of my Jeep right now instead of the High9.
YotaAtieToo said:
If you're going to weld on new spindles, I really like the idea of them being bolt on, especially if it's the same spindles as your front.
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That’s why we do it. Cross compatibility
 
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JR4X said:
Not a guru but I’d never miss an opportunity to talk shit on a 14B. The rear axle in my crawler is a 9” with 14B outers. Biggest mistake of the build.
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Are you actually having issues with the 14b outers or do you just wish you had done something else?
 
94toytruck said:
Are you actually having issues with the 14b outers or do you just wish you had done something else?
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Just wish I had done something else. Mostly because I was replacing an aftermarket axle, I didn’t know what I was doing because it was 2011. I used all aftermarket parts, new spindles drive hubs and one of the parts I don’t like is the bolt on drive flange.

I was replacing a Teraflex CRD HP60 FF rear axle because I broke a R&P and wanted to go Hi9 instead. The Jeep was already 5 on 5 1/2 and I had bad ass beadlocks in that bolt pattern. SAI has 14B drive hubs in 5 or 6 on 5 1/2 so it seemed like an easy solution. Except the bolt circle for drive flange is too big for the ID of the wheel so no matter what fastener you use to bolt the machined down drive flange on. You have to grind the fasteners down after you get them tight so you can get the wheel over them. The front was/is a CRD HP60 with 5 on 5 1/2 so I matched it up. The dumb thing was that the rear axle I took out had the D60 hubs I wanted/needed but I sold the rear axle complete and thought I’d try something different entirely. I’ve not made that mistake again since.
 
06h3 said:
JR4X would that machine shop be willing to make more if someone wanted to buy a set?
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Probably. I can look into it for you if you want. Pm me next month. I only get one day off in January before I leave for KOH so can’t mess with it at the moment
 
YotaAtieToo said:
What's the trick for slip ons in the front? Fancy will wood stuff?
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You know me, elitist easy way out guy.
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There is probably a parts store solution for 8 on 6 1/2 lug pattern in vented slip on rotors. I just don’t know what or where it would come from
 
JR4X said:
Just wish I had done something else. Mostly because I was replacing an aftermarket axle, I didn’t know what I was doing because it was 2011. I used all aftermarket parts, new spindles drive hubs and one of the parts I don’t like is the bolt on drive flange.

I was replacing a Teraflex CRD HP60 FF rear axle because I broke a R&P and wanted to go Hi9 instead. The Jeep was already 5 on 5 1/2 and I had bad ass beadlocks in that bolt pattern. SAI has 14B drive hubs in 5 or 6 on 5 1/2 so it seemed like an easy solution. Except the bolt circle for drive flange is too big for the ID of the wheel so no matter what fastener you use to bolt the machined down drive flange on. You have to grind the fasteners down after you get them tight so you can get the wheel over them. The front was/is a CRD HP60 with 5 on 5 1/2 so I matched it up. The dumb thing was that the rear axle I took out had the D60 hubs I wanted/needed but I sold the rear axle complete and thought I’d try something different entirely. I’ve not made that mistake again since.
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My friend has a 14b that 5x5.5, it's definitely a PITA. I know exactly what you're talking about. I think in the end they turned down the heads of some cap screws.

I literally have a 3.5x.375 9 housing, crane 14b spindles, wheel hubs all sitting here waiting for me to stop putting projects in front of it.
 
94toytruck said:
My friend has a 14b that 5x5.5, it's definitely a PITA. I know exactly what you're talking about. I think in the end they turned down the heads of some cap screws.

I literally have a 3.5x.375 9 housing, crane 14b spindles, wheel hubs all sitting here waiting for me to stop putting projects in front of it.
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If you’re staying 8 on 6 1/2 you’ll probably love it. The GM bolts are the best bolts for holding that flange on, GM got it right with those. Don’t just use any bolts because they are the right length. That non threaded part of the good GM bolt is also the dowel and an important part of that outer. Allen head cap bolts with no shoulder, you’ll never get them or keep them tight enough.
 
JR4X said:
There is probably a parts store solution for 8 on 6 1/2 lug pattern in vented slip on rotors. I just don’t know what or where it would come from
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I guess I should probably stop derailing, but ya, most likely 2000s or newer dodge or GM will have slip on fronts, just need to figure out calipers and brackets. I really hate the dumb big single piston GM60 calipers, but I'm ready sank into a dumb kingpin axle, so may as well continue the theme:laughing:
 
RustyC said:
14 bolt have more reported bent spindles simply because of the abuse they are getting. Most would bail on any other FF axle before reaching that failure point.
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Bull fucking shit. The spindles are within a hair of D60/70 sizes shit. The reason they bend is:
YotaAtieToo said:
I wonder if 14b spindle issues are more because of the common srw hub wheel mount offset compared to basically every other full float axle except maybe the late model 10.5.

On top of that, I've seen lots of guys run wheel spacers to try and match 70-72" front width.
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And it's aggravated by the neutral or deep dish rims the average yokel with tons under his k5 or whatever is running. If everyone made like 90s Dodge and ran rims with offset appropriate for an FWD car that would go a long way toward solving it, but the axles frequently aren't wide enough for rims like that in a full-size application with big tires so it's kind of a non-starter.
 
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I noticed that the sterling has the same bore size for the bearings as the 14b but the spindle looks quite a bit shorter. I assume this makes life more difficult for the bearings but the spindles hold up better due to less leverage?

There are 1000 reasons to hate on a sterling IMO, but this may be one upside to them.

Thoughts?
 
arse_sidewards said:
Bull fucking shit. The spindles are within a hair of D60/70 sides shit. The reason they bend is:


And it's aggrieved by the neutral or deep dish rims the average yokel with tons under his k5 or CJ is running. If everyone made like 90s Dodge and ran rims with offset appropriate for an FWD car that would go a long way toward solving it.
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Bent both spindles on a SRW with dually hubs(moves WMS surface in a good bit) and 4.75 BSing. The spindles bend cause they made from warm butter. My aftermarket spindles haven't bent with the same setup in my buggy.
 
94toytruck said:
Bent both spindles on a SRW with dually hubs(moves WMS surface in a good bit) and 4.75 BSing. The spindles bend cause they made from warm butter. My aftermarket spindles haven't bent with the same setup in my buggy.
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I want to say it louder for the people in the back. Whatever material GM spec’d for those is government cheese.

The center section is tough and designed well. The tubes and spindles not so much.
 
94toytruck said:
Bent both spindles on a SRW with dually hubs(moves WMS surface in a good bit) and 4.75 BSing. The spindles bend cause they made from warm butter. My aftermarket spindles haven't bent with the same setup in my buggy.
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I think i said it earlier.... wall thickness on spindles is not a constant either.

To be extra clear, I'm not refuting a possible alloy difference.
 
YotaAtieToo said:
I guess I should probably stop derailing, but ya, most likely 2000s or newer dodge or GM will have slip on fronts, just need to figure out calipers and brackets. I really hate the dumb big single piston GM60 calipers, but I'm ready sank into a dumb kingpin axle, so may as well continue the theme:laughing:
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I used an early 2000's 3500hd gm rear rotor with a s-10 front caliper on my last rear 60 drum conversion. Outboard rotor. I homebrewed the caliper bracket. Current rear axle in my buggy is the stock disc brake e350 axle it is outboard rotors. In the front I used torques kit that uses late model dodge rotors and calipers to put outboard rotors on a kingpin chev axle.

/derail off
 
I have no numbers or measurements to throw at this discussion, but a few years back I remember reading somewhere that the Sterling axles had wheel bearings that were the same size as 2.5 Rockwells. Again, no numbers, but in my experience, Sterlings definitely have larger wheel bearings than 60, 70 or 14 bolt- 80's and 90's era stuff anyway.
 
Defecater said:
I have no numbers or measurements to throw at this discussion, but a few years back I remember reading somewhere that the Sterling axles had wheel bearings that were the same size as 2.5 Rockwells. Again, no numbers, but in my experience, Sterlings definitely have larger wheel bearings than 60, 70 or 14 bolt- 80's and 90's era stuff anyway.
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Only the inner. The outer is the usual set38.
 
From the research I did on rock auto looking at bearing sizes the bearing bore was the same for the 14 bolt and sterling. The sterling may be using a larger inner with a bigger cone but the bore is the same meaning the spindle size is the same.
 
The newer 4in 14 bolts in the 3500 express vans take the set38 bearings inner and outer and the spindle bore is large enough for a 40 spline shaft. The axle flange pattern is different so drive flanges haven't been produced yet. Stan at vranik said he'd make some if they catch on.
 
TTRAxle&FAB said:
The newer 4in 14 bolts in the 3500 express vans take the set38 bearings inner and outer and the spindle bore is large enough for a 40 spline shaft.
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That sounds suspicious. Old D60 rears with 3" tubes used set38 inner and outer. Had to bore spindles to fit 35 spline, and then the spindles walls are thin.
 
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