What's new
By:
Filters

Rear axle spindle tech

06h3

Red Skull Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2020
Member Number
2843
Messages
1,500
Loc
SW Idaho
Hey guys, who here is a spindle guru on rear axles?

14b, sterling 10.25/10.5, Eaton HO72, d60, d70, d80, AAM10.5 and AAM11.5 and AAM 11.8 are all of them around the same strength spindle?

I know the Eaton is different than the 14b but similar. Are the 60/70/80 the same as a 14b spindle?

I see on torque king the 60HD/70/80/AAM11.5/11.8 share the same wheel bearings for DRW. Are there differences in spindles between DRW and SRW spindles? I’d assume not.

IMG_9686.png


I know a couple guys who have bent a 14b spindle and possibly one guy who bent an Eaton spindle. Are there spindle upgrades to be had using another axle or is it a cut it out and use a Hd spindle from crane or UB cups?

Thanks
 
  • Like
Reactions: PAE
I’d like to know the difference in mounting surface changes between a spindle and going to unit bearing in a cup. A lot of variables I imagine though.
 
I’d like to know that too. I just searched on google and found 6 threads on 14b bent spindle, many with, “I bent one too” then I know there’s some without a bent spindle thread but have it in their build thread. It seems to be somewhat common, so is a d80 spindle the same and would also bend but there’s more 14b’s running around or is a D80 spindle stronger?

I’d like to know width differences too on a Ub cup conversion
 
Spoke to Weaver fab, where you cut the UB mounting face is 3.05in from the cut.

From what I see you lose a few inches in WMS which sucks. Can anyone confirm?
 
I wonder if 14b spindle issues are more because of the common srw hub wheel mount offset compared to basically every other full float axle except maybe the late model 10.5.

On top of that, I've seen lots of guys run wheel spacers to try and match 70-72" front width.

I'd bet that if more people used a wider axle with drw hubs, bent spindles would be pretty rare.
 
There has got to be a chart somewhere that has all of the sizes etc, have been looking to years, IE 14 bolts, Dana 60 v 70 v 80 etc.
 
PAE said:
There has got to be a chart somewhere that has all of the sizes etc, have been looking to years, IE 14 bolts, Dana 60 v 70 v 80 etc.
Click to expand...

Maybe, but charts and wieght ratings don't always translate to real world.

Dana may have a different rating process than aam anyway.
 
14 bolt have more reported bent spindles simply because of the abuse they are getting. Most would bail on any other FF axle before reaching that failure point.
 
Yeah I’d be curious if a Dana 80 spindle that takes the same wheel bearings as a 60 HD (acccording to torque king) has a thicker wall spindle or something?
 
06h3 said:
Yeah I’d be curious if a Dana 80 spindle that takes the same wheel bearings as a 60 HD (acccording to torque king) has a thicker wall spindle or something?
Click to expand...

If anything it would be the other way around, most any Older dana 60 that came 30 spline, would not fit 35 spline shafts without boring.
 
So it kind of sounds like it’s all the same stuff. Sure, hub face placement on the spindle is different, wheel bearing spread may be different but if the wheel bearings are the same the OD of the machined surfaces are the same.

Sounds like the weak point is the housing for weight ratings not the spindle. I’m going out on a limb here.
 
06h3 said:
So it kind of sounds like it’s all the same stuff. Sure, hub face placement on the spindle is different, wheel bearing spread may be different but if the wheel bearings are the same the OD of the machined surfaces are the same.

Sounds like the weak point is the housing for weight ratings not the spindle. I’m going out on a limb here.
Click to expand...

Probably depends

The last D60 rear(79 F350 rear, not sure if it was a 60HD) I had on a table was 3"x375" tubes(if that, it was actually pretty light) then you have the D70HD that came with 4x500 tubes.

It is interesting that the higher rated axles put the wms much further back on the hub. So there is obviously a wieght carrying and strength advantage.

I wonder why they even made the srw type hubs? Maybe just better looking hub caps?
 
Who has hub caps on their trucks ?
 
PAE said:
Who has hub caps on their trucks ?
Click to expand...
20191103_082918.jpg

Me :flipoff2:



I've seen different styles of spindles just between two different Dana 60 rears. One was some kind of J20 axle iirc, and the other a Highboy rear ('75 ford), so I'd have a hard time believing that there are any direct JY style swaps that don't come out of a direct swap axle.

At the point of hacking off other spindles looking for a beef upgrade; say, off of a dana 80, wouldn't you be a bit time and effort ahead to just run the full outer setup off the donor? Custom shafts would be needed at that point obviously, but we're pretty used to that with fronts.

IDK, should we turn this into a GD&T thread for different spindles? I personally have access to the 75 14b pictured above, an 04ish D80, a 75 d60, and an 01ish Sterling. I could be convinced to pull hubs and poke around them all with a caliper to get ideas of what we're dealing with as a start.
 
Ok I guess I do remember those days, I did have those kindnof things on my 78 GMC K30.
 
If you're just looking for an upgrade option, the ECGS spindles that they include with their 40 spline rear setup are pretty sweet and reasonably priced for what you're getting. They claim they have a 4x higher yield strength than 14 Bolt spindles. Definitely bigger bearings.
 
I believe DRW spindles are thicker wall. Those are the ones that typically need boring to fit >35spl shafts.
 
YotaAtieToo said:
Thats makes no sense. Srw hub takes wieght better than a drw?
Click to expand...

It does. And no.

Measure a dually tire-pair's contact patch vs where the bearings lay. It is proportioned correctly for the two spindle bearings.

Edit: keep in mind, factory srw wheels arent 0 offset, like a dually pair almost is.
 
Last edited:
willis_racing said:
20191103_082918.jpg

Me :flipoff2:



I've seen different styles of spindles just between two different Dana 60 rears. One was some kind of J20 axle iirc, and the other a Highboy rear ('75 ford), so I'd have a hard time believing that there are any direct JY style swaps that don't come out of a direct swap axle.

At the point of hacking off other spindles looking for a beef upgrade; say, off of a dana 80, wouldn't you be a bit time and effort ahead to just run the full outer setup off the donor? Custom shafts would be needed at that point obviously, but we're pretty used to that with fronts.

IDK, should we turn this into a GD&T thread for different spindles? I personally have access to the 75 14b pictured above, an 04ish D80, a 75 d60, and an 01ish Sterling. I could be convinced to pull hubs and poke around them all with a caliper to get ideas of what we're dealing with as a start.
Click to expand...
That would be awesome if you could. The question at hand is one axle spindle substantially stronger than another? My friend thinks he may have bent an Eaton spindle. I know of others who have bent 14b spindles so swapping to a 14b won’t make sense. He’d probably do the same thing, bend a 14b spindle….but if a d80 is a substantial spindle upgrade maybe he would put a d80 in his rig, or if they are all somewhat similar, then it won’t make sense, he would better off finding an HD spindle from crane or ECGS or unit bearing cups. I guess I’m trying to find out where the strength differences lies within these spindles for each axle
 
u2slow said:
It does. And no.

Measure a dually tire-pair's contact patch vs where the bearings lay. It is proportioned correctly for the two spindle bearings.

Edit: keep in mind, factory srw wheels arent 0 offset, like a dually pair almost is.
Click to expand...

I'm not even sure we're on the same subject here.

What I'm saying is that a 14b srw hub puts more leverage on the spindle and bearings and a drw hub is less.

You're saying the wms on the hub on the left is centered between the bearings?

brawler_hub3.jpg


Don't forget the bearing is not right at the end of the hub at the flange bolt surface.
 
Following this thinking, a srw wheel (less offset) mounted on a drw hub would be the strongest.
How many bent wheels vs vent spindles.
How about running humv wheels on either.
Are guys running them on a dually 60 front, where the wms moves to the outer edge of the hub, suffering more issues. Whether bent spindles busted knuckles/Cs
How about using a full width dually axles (vs C&C) with SRW hubs to use Humv wheels. Longer tubes, albeit thicker.

As far as bending spindles, how much is it just a fluke. Way, way back, in my youth, I slid a 73 datsun pickup sideways into a curb. I may or may not have been at a high rate of speed when I hit a patch of sand in a corner. I bent the wheel enough to not drive away and that small semifloat axle was fine. I think the wheels were 8" wide with 245/60.
 
I thought it was a fluke for my friend but now I know multiple people who have bent spindles. Bigger tires, bigger obstacles, higher rates of speed, and a google search shows it’s more common than I thought. In the grand scheme of things, is it still a fluke? Probably, the % is small of people with that issue, but it’s not so small it’s gone ignored. Companies have spindles rated 4x stronger than the factory ones.

My wheeling group all went the 1 ton route about 5-8 years ago. We went from breaking parts quite a bit, to little carnage, so we push harder, parts are probably fatigued and now we are starting to see failure
 
I bent both spindles on my previous 14b with dually hubs. I know several others in out group bent them too. Current 14b has dually hubs Ruffstuff spindles and a full length truss and pinion support. It's been thrashed on a few years now and still straight.

The aftermarket spindles go in the tube further. I had Zach at A-Z do my current spindles and he showed my the stub of the spindle he took off. It hardly goes in at all. RS/Solid spindles use a different seal which in my case don't fit and the stock 14b doesn't quite seal.

I actually have a set of Crane 14b spindles in the shop currently. IIRC they accept a stock seal and were much machined much nicer.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Back Refresh