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Project: I have no idea what I'm doing (Moved from p4x4)

I'm starting to think it's that. My motor isn't anything insane, and my jeep isn't some super heavy tank. Way back when I bought this thing, I drove home on the freeway about 400 miles, through LA, over hills, etc. It cruised 65 on the freeway the whole way.

Here's a shot from the drive back then. Trans temp is low, engine temp low. It's happy. That was on 37s and nothing else drivetrain-wise has changed.

Side note- one of the reasons I liked the 700r4 at first was its overdrive. I averaged 14 - 15 mpg on that drive.
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I don't think it would do that now without a struggle. So... Do 40's really make that much of a difference? Or did I mortally wound my tranny when the relay running my tranny cooler fans died and I had to limp it back to camp with 250* fluid temps in 95* weather? Can torque converters get damaged by high heat?


At the risk of sounding like a boring old man, I really like this thing. It cost way too much money, but it drives amazing, gets decent milage for its size and was extremely easy to tow with.
Yeah, that is leading me to thinking it is something other than coolers. I drove through Nevada in 100 degree temps and weigh in at 7k lbs and had no issues with heat. On UA 2017, we took backroads to crown king, steep dirt roads in 115+ degree heat and I didnt hit 250. I could get up to 210-220 but not 250. In the sand, if I really really pushed it in high range I could get it up to 220 in 80 degree heat but that was hammering on it when I should be in low range. My setup wasnt fool proof, I had to watch temps in certain scenarios but for a general off the shelf, cheap cooler, it was pretty good.

My wife wants an expedition. I think towing the hummer would be at like 9k. Probably pushing the limit on suspension and rear diff. I know the motor and trans can handle it. I think max tow package on those things is around 9k.
 
Or did I mortally wound my tranny when the relay running my tranny cooler fans died and I had to limp it back to camp with 250* fluid temps in 95* weather? Can torque converters get damaged by high heat?
The torque converter will laugh at 250. It's not great for fluid life but nothing in the trans will care over a short period of time.
 
Yeah, that is leading me to thinking it is something other than coolers. I drove through Nevada in 100 degree temps and weigh in at 7k lbs and had no issues with heat. On UA 2017, we took backroads to crown king, steep dirt roads in 115+ degree heat and I didnt hit 250. I could get up to 210-220 but not 250. In the sand, if I really really pushed it in high range I could get it up to 220 in 80 degree heat but that was hammering on it when I should be in low range. My setup wasnt fool proof, I had to watch temps in certain scenarios but for a general off the shelf, cheap cooler, it was pretty good.

My wife wants an expedition. I think towing the hummer would be at like 9k. Probably pushing the limit on suspension and rear diff. I know the motor and trans can handle it. I think max tow package on those things is around 9k.
Good info. What gearing do you have in your diffs?

Expedition: trailer and jeep and a couple little motos puts somewhere between 7500 and 7600. Weight distribution hitch was definitely needed, but once installed, the suspension was pretty happy. Thats with a crap ton of kid and grandma stuff in the back as well. Time will tell how stout the drivetrain is.
 
Tell me more. I don't know shit about fuck when it comes to this. I'm limited on locations since everything is so tight on this and I need kid and cargo room. Where do most v8 swap jeep guys put their trans coolers?
behind the tire is a bad place anyway, rocks, debris, high likelihood of ending up with a leak or plugged up. Plus eddy currents with airflow due to the tire spinning. The other one just has no real space to circulate air and it's in a dead zone under the body.

The other thing it could be is the wrong stall torque converter/ converter is failing. Happened to multiple brother in law recently (last week). Drove fine at low speed, started spinning it hard and fast, cooked his trans.

Do you have room to put a different style cooler in front of the radiator? Can you run it through the radiator and then add a cooler in front of the radiator in series?
 
The torque converter will laugh at 250. It's not great for fluid life but nothing in the trans will care over a short period of time.
Well... the gauge goes up to 250. So maaaaybe higher? I had to drive it that way back through a sandy wash for about 30 mins.

It just seems like a jump from 37s to 40s shouldn't make that much of a difference.
 
Do you have room to put a different style cooler in front of the radiator? Can you run it through the radiator and then add a cooler in front of the radiator in series?
Was talking with Rockwood about that last night. He hates my whole cooling setup. There would have to be some significant surgery done up front, but it's not impossible. Might pull the front clip, fenders, hood, etc and rethink how everything is packaged in there.
 
Good info. What gearing do you have in your diffs?

Expedition: trailer and jeep and a couple little motos puts somewhere between 7500 and 7600. Weight distribution hitch was definitely needed, but once installed, the suspension was pretty happy. Thats with a crap ton of kid and grandma stuff in the back as well. Time will tell how stout the drivetrain is.
5.13
 
Can you summarize what you changed from the photo where it was on 37s and worked to now?

One thought is, are there some cobbled together fittings that cause a flow restriction in your cooler setup?
 
I think something funky with trans. I also think 4L60e had no TV cable.

-Converter on the way out or wrong stall
-Valve body has bypassing in it or needs new o-ring or seal somewhere
-TV cable required and not hooked up or not adjusted properly, resulting in low line pressure at high RPM, creating slipping

30 seconds of spirited driving with 2ea coolers regardless of airflow or fans resulting in overheating to the point of shutdown isn't normal, and I don't think it's a cooling problem.

Start with documentation for valve body and go from there.

Correct: 4L60E does not have a TV cable, all done electronically in the PCM.

But yeah, I had a similar issue with the TV cable in my XJ: broke off and the transmission tried to kill itself continually until I figured out what it was.

I'm starting to think it's that. My motor isn't anything insane, and my jeep isn't some super heavy tank. Way back when I bought this thing, I drove home on the freeway about 400 miles, through LA, over hills, etc. It cruised 65 on the freeway the whole way.

Here's a shot from the drive back then. Trans temp is low, engine temp low. It's happy. That was on 37s and nothing else drivetrain-wise has changed.

Side note- one of the reasons I liked the 700r4 at first was its overdrive. I averaged 14 - 15 mpg on that drive.
1701190216982.png


I don't think it would do that now without a struggle. So... Do 40's really make that much of a difference? Or did I mortally wound my tranny when the relay running my tranny cooler fans died and I had to limp it back to camp with 250* fluid temps in 95* weather? Can torque converters get damaged by high heat?


At the risk of sounding like a boring old man, I really like this thing. It cost way too much money, but it drives amazing, gets decent milage for its size and was extremely easy to tow with.

3.5 EB and 10 speed are hilariously effective as a DD/tow pig. All the horsetorques at any elevation towing, breeze around with zero fuss unloaded, smoke the shit out of most normal vehicles at a stoplight, and sorta get decent mileage considering all of the above.

Was talking with Rockwood about that last night. He hates my whole cooling setup. There would have to be some significant surgery done up front, but it's not impossible. Might pull the front clip, fenders, hood, etc and rethink how everything is packaged in there.
I mean, I don't hate it... I just greatly dislike pusher fans. Like, really dislike them.

Okay, yeah, I hate it. :flipoff2:
 
Can you summarize what you changed from the photo where it was on 37s and worked to now?

One thought is, are there some cobbled together fittings that cause a flow restriction in your cooler setup?
Drivetrain-wise: added beadlocks and 40s... maybe some a couple hundred lbs extra weight?

Stuff that shouldn't matter: stretched wheelbase 12 inches, added disc brake conversion to the rear, linked the rear, new cage.

3.5 EB and 10 speed are hilariously effective as a DD/tow pig. All the horsetorques at any elevation towing, breeze around with zero fuss unloaded, smoke the shit out of most normal vehicles at a stoplight, and sorta get decent mileage considering all of the above.
It's nuts. Wife gets 17 mpg city shuttling kids around all day. Then it pulled an 8k trailer 400 miles like it was no big deal. I had to keep an eye on my speed up and down hills to make sure I didn't get pulled over while doing it.
 
Drivetrain-wise: added beadlocks and 40s... maybe some a couple hundred lbs extra weight?

Stuff that shouldn't matter: stretched wheelbase 12 inches, added disc brake conversion to the rear, linked the rear, new cage.


It's nuts. Wife gets 17 mpg city shuttling kids around all day. Then it pulled an 8k trailer 400 miles like it was no big deal. I had to keep an eye on my speed up and down hills to make sure I didn't get pulled over while doing it.
Yep. Hauled my pile up to Big Bear at 2500 max. Zero fucks.
 
Well... the gauge goes up to 250. So maaaaybe higher? I had to drive it that way back through a sandy wash for about 30 mins.

It just seems like a jump from 37s to 40s shouldn't make that much of a difference.

The only thing the bigger tires could do would be to screw up the air that used to make it to the cooler you have in the fender. Spinning tires are really good at screwing up air flow trying to go around them.

How close is your exhaust to the trans?
 
Very close. It's wrapped.
Ok, was just thinking that you might be putting heat into the trans from an external source.

What I'm doing on my rig is having a really big trans cooler running through a thermostat. My thinking is that there's extra cooling capacity for the times I get stupid and the thermostat keeps temps in check when I'm not.
 
Ok, was just thinking that you might be putting heat into the trans from an external source.

What I'm doing on my rig is having a really big trans cooler running through a thermostat. My thinking is that there's extra cooling capacity for the times I get stupid and the thermostat keeps temps in check when I'm not.
so you have a cooler that acts like a RAD with thermostat? what temp sets it off? or how does that work. or i miss understood
 
Drivetrain-wise: added beadlocks and 40s... maybe some a couple hundred lbs extra weight?

Stuff that shouldn't matter: stretched wheelbase 12 inches, added disc brake conversion to the rear, linked the rear, new cage.


It's nuts. Wife gets 17 mpg city shuttling kids around all day. Then it pulled an 8k trailer 400 miles like it was no big deal. I had to keep an eye on my speed up and down hills to make sure I didn't get pulled over while doing it.
Did I misunderstand, did it cool sufficiently at one point?

If so, figure out how to get back to that point. Seems like something failed, even if your design/layout is sub-par.

Is there a fluid temp delta pre-post cooler? I'd think you could confirm that with an infrared temp gun. I can bring one Saturday if you don't have one.
 
so you have a cooler that acts like a RAD with thermostat? what temp sets it off? or how does that work. or i miss understood

In a nut shell yes.

I have a big Setrab cooler for the trans. It sits in front of the rad so it's relying on the rad fans to pull air through it or the air coming through the grill. The lines from the trans run through this...

fsc-165_10_lrg_1.jpg



Mine is the 165*, but you can get them set from 145* to 215*

I have a 6L90 and as I understand it, really hot oil can kill them.

I'm also running one of their thermostat remote engine oil filter mounts to another big Setrab cooler.
 
In a nut shell yes.

I have a big Setrab cooler for the trans. It sits in front of the rad so it's relying on the rad fans to pull air through it or the air coming through the grill. The lines from the trans run through this...

fsc-165_10_lrg_1.jpg



Mine is the 165*, but you can get them set from 145* to 215*

I have a 6L90 and as I understand it, really hot oil can kill them.

I'm also running one of their thermostat remote engine oil filter mounts to another big Setrab cooler.
so the fluid just sits there till the black box see 165, then it will free flow. thats pretty cool.
 
It bypasses the cooler and just returns to the trans. Once 165* (or whatever), the path to the cooler opens.


When the t-stat is closed, 90% of the oil going to it gets bypassed back to the trans, 10% will go through the cooler. Their reason for that is so you don't end up with a slug of cold oil sitting in the cooler.

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I have 2 of them from improved racing. a 145 thermostat and a 160 thermostat both for transmission coolers. I bought them because basically all cheap trans thermostats are 180-185 which I wanted mine to open sooner.

I am a fan of their stuff, it isnt cheap but the quality is as good as you can get for thermostats and thermostat housings.
 
When the t-stat is closed, 90% of the oil going to it gets bypassed back to the trans, 10% will go through the cooler. Their reason for that is so you don't end up with a slug of cold oil sitting in the cooler.
Doesn't the 6L80/90 already have a thermostat? There are kits to delete trans thermostats. Beyond the OEM wanting them to run hot for economy, why would a trail rig (with any trans) benefit from having one or not? (ignoring the cold slug issue)
 
Doesn't the 6L80/90 already have a thermostat? There are kits to delete trans thermostats. Beyond the OEM wanting them to run hot for economy, why would a trail rig (with any trans) benefit from having one or not? (ignoring the cold slug issue)
Never gets hot enough to cook the moisture out?
 
Doesn't the 6L80/90 already have a thermostat? There are kits to delete trans thermostats. Beyond the OEM wanting them to run hot for economy, why would a trail rig (with any trans) benefit from having one or not? (ignoring the cold slug issue)

I don't know if they all came with them or not. But they are set to begin opening at ~190* and fully open could be well past 200*. That's too hot. These trans don't like hot oil at all. It will kill them. The factory thermostat puts fuel economy over transmission life. GM has a newer bypass valve out that's set to 158*, pretty much an admission that the 190* is too hot for these things.

I think any vehicle benefits from having it's trans fluid (or engine oil) kept at a constant "proper" temp while having the ability to dump excess heat as needed. Have to remember that these things operate off of clutches and planetary gears, they are very different from the older trans designs


This is what the factory thermostat looks like......

6l80e-thermostat-block.jpg



I bought my 90 from Stricker Auto Parts and it didn't have that thermostat on it. It very well could have when new, I have no idea. It was from a '16 2500HD 4x4 that fell off the transport truck going to a dealer. Had 4 miles on it.
 
Spent most of last week traveling for work, then straight to 2big bronco's birthday bash this weekend, so I haven't got a chance to pull the pan on the tranny and see how my fluid is doing yet. Also working OT most of this week, and then down to LA to for a college friend reunion for my wife... There, I think those are all the excuses I've got for why this jeep won't be getting love any time soon.

I did get some wheeling on during said bash, but most was crawling or cruising fire roads. I gathered some more data while wheeling.

  1. My temporary band-aid for my engine heat issues in the desert was to dump water wetter into my cooling system. That seems to be working well, even during moments of spicy throttle race-car driver action. The hottest the motor got was 210*
  2. My tranny cooler fans are set to come on around 180*. I found that if I just turned them on and left them on instead, it makes the trans temps more manageable, but I still have to be nice to the trans.
  3. It really feels like my TC isn't sending even close to full power to the rest of the drivetrain until about 3500\4k rpms. I can romp on the throttle and it doesn't feel all that quick until then, and suddenly it's like getting shot out of a cannon.
  4. I can get my tranny to overheat going slow if I leave it in high range and zip around for fun. Donuts, short little hill climbs, etc. Anywhere I'm putting power down, and speeds a can be 25 mph and under. That leads me to believe that my issue (or not my main one anyway), isn't some sort of weird aerodynamics problem that only happens while driving down the freeway or fast in the desert.
  5. At one point I parked with my passenger front tire stuffed up into the wheel well right next to the trans cooler (fans on of course). Just sitting there like that I watched the tranny temp climb from 160* to 180* in a few seconds. So I surmise that cooler: A. Actually works, and B. is in a horrible location. Backing up and getting the tire level got things to cool back down over the course of a few minutes.
  6. I can pretend I'm a racecar driver all day in 4 low and the trans doesn't overheat. I really need to get those lower gears in the diff, but maybe going from 4.88s to 5.13s isn't going to be enough?

Aaand pictures because everyone likes those.

This made my trans start to warm up(one cooler in passenger front fender):
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I'm dumb
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Running stuff over. (my wife is easily impressed and that's working well for me so far :flipoff2:)





 
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sounds like high stall? i feel the rockshit feeling right away on mine and its a factory stall. i dont feel like i need to build up rpms to get over a rock or up a ledge. so this leads me to stall being high, witch builds heat. and if you were climbing up said rock and the tire blocked the fan, it may have been more heat was being built to climb. what kind of rpm s do you see when you do things like that, can you idle or do you need a bit of throttle? long winded sorry
 
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