New tech for old axles? (kingpin)

[YotaAtieToo]

As much as I'm a fan of the newer BJ stuff, I already have a kingpin axle, that got 70% of the shit I need on it.

Brakes?

Big brake kits:

Ecgs, 13" rotors (isn't that the same as stock?) says 16s fit, doesn't say what application the rotors and calipers are.

https://eastcoastgearsupply.com/i-23993549-chevy-kingpin-dana-60-big-brake-kit.html


Nwf, 14" rotors, requires 17s, uses rotors and calipers from 09+ dodge. I like this kit, but I feel like a cnc billet caliper bracket is a little over kill, especially for $400/pair.

http://www.northwestfab.com/KingPin-Dana-60-Big-Brake-Bracket-Kit_p_2680.html

Torq makes some $180 brackets, but I'd rather not go there

Has anyone done anything similar themselves? I'd like slip on rotors for sure. Not sure I need 14" rotors for this rig. Maybe early 2000s dodge or Chevy 2500? Stuff?

Another thing I'd like to look into is unit bearings on a kingpin knuckle. I'm going to need spindles and hubs already, regular hubs have a reputation for easily getting water in. I've read that the register ID on the gm knuckle and UB knuckle is the same. This thread talks about it a bit, but fizzled out with no real solution.

https://www.hardlinecrawlers.com/threads/unit-bearing-on-kingpin-knuckle.53469/

A 1 piece caliper bracket and spacer with a drill guide for the UB pattern would be pretty awesome. Not sure if there is demand for that odd of a combo either.

 

[Beat95yj]

Doesn’t Reid make a Kingpin knuckle for 05 and newer SD UB’s? Cant remember if it uses stock C’s.

edit: looks pricy.
https://reidracing.biz/superkingpin

 

[94toytruck]

Branik sells a Legacy big brake kit too.

I can't fit a HP or a DS drop in my rig, I'll be sticking with narrowed GM housings or a custom unit either which way.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

Doesn’t Reid make a Kingpin knuckle for 05 and newer SD UB’s? Cant remember if it uses stock C’s.

edit: looks pricy.
https://reidracing.biz/superkingpin

That's the big swinging dick set up for rockwell rcv's or 1550 shafts.

Branik sells a Legacy big brake kit too.

I can't fit a HP or a DS drop in my rig, I'll be sticking with narrowed GM housings or a custom unit either which way.

I saw the legacy kit also, I guess I figured those who could afford it would know about it ​​​​​​

Before I found this housing for $100, I was close to getting a semi float D60u and adding 99-04 BJ outters.

 

[Wulf]

Forgive me if I missed something but Ruff Stuff also has a disk brake kit for the GM/Dodge KP 60 axles

 

[McBastard79]

On my k10 I’m running the WFO HD brake brackets with the factory rotors, calipers and pads from my duramax. I had to get the d60 hubs turned down to allow the rotor hat to slide on and off. Also had to cut off a piece on the caliper brackets.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

Forgive me if I missed something but Ruff Stuff also has a disk brake kit for the GM/Dodge KP 60 axles

Ya, that's the 3/4 ton brake kit. A million people make them and they've been out forever, so I didn't even think about adding the link. It's actually smaller brakes, which works for a lot of people, but not all.

On my k10 I’m running the WFO HD brake brackets with the factory rotors, calipers and pads from my duramax. I had to get the d60 hubs turned down to allow the rotor hat to slide on and off. Also had to cut off a piece on the caliper brackets.

God damnit, I was at wfo last week talking about brakes for my gm60 and Trevor didn't say anything about that kit ​​​​​​

Just looked it up, they don't make the bracket for a gm spindle. a lot of their business is solid axle swapping ifs Chevy trucks, so that kit makes sense.

 

[arse_sidewards]

YJUnlimited posted dimensions for these on the old site. Looks like he's running them on a Ford knuckle. IIRC they're calipers off some sort of Chevy 2500.

 

[Toreadorranger]

Just looked it up, they don't make the bracket for a gm spindle. a lot of their business is solid axle swapping ifs Chevy trucks, so that kit makes sense.

You should ask If they cut them in house, if they do adjusting the spindle bolt layout should be a pretty easy endeavor. Or just drill your own pattern.

 

[ScottRS]

You should ask If they cut them in house, if they do adjusting the spindle bolt layout should be a pretty easy endeavor. Or just drill your own pattern.

Stackup will be different too, the Ford stacks knuckle-caliperbracket-spindle, GM/Dodge stacks knuckle-spindle-caliperbracket. Easy enough to add spacers accordingly, but be aware you'll have to.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

You should ask If they cut them in house, if they do adjusting the spindle bolt layout should be a pretty easy endeavor. Or just drill your own pattern.

They don't cut their production stuff in house, they use a large laser cutting outfit. They do have a plas table in house though. I was thinking about asking if he can make them for a gm60.

 

[ParadisePWoffrd]

Another thing I'd like to look into is unit bearings on a kingpin knuckle. I'm going to need spindles and hubs already, regular hubs have a reputation for easily getting water in. I've read that the register ID on the gm knuckle and UB knuckle is the same. This thread talks about it a bit, but fizzled out with no real solution.

https://www.hardlinecrawlers.com/thr...knuckle.53469/

A 1 piece caliper bracket and spacer with a drill guide for the UB pattern would be pretty awesome. Not sure if there is demand for that odd of a combo either.

I started the other thread, and did some CAD work, but didn't get much farther than that. Big thanks to Ross @Hudson1 for being willing to 3D print the parts for me to try.

Biggest challenge from what i recall was fitting a stub and brakes. The 99-04 bearings would be easier to use, and could likely work by redrilling the knuckle and using the SD stubs. I havent messed with brakes, but honestly think that would be easy once the rest is solved.

I was running under the assumption of being able to use the stub shaft for the kingpin axle, and using factory length components so that spares are easy/cheaper. The 05+ stub is the one I wanted, but couldnt find the dimensions or drawing of one to try. Also, not sure how much value the 05+ stub is without the 1550 ujoint. I believe it would require machining of the knuckle, making them weaker, and wouldnt leave much options for brakes. If someone can get me the dimensions, or has a shaft they are willing to send me, I would be glad to give it another round.


Here are some pics:

This 1st set was what i ended with, to keep the WMS more narrow, but requires a custom slug or stub also.

​


Here is the 1 version, that would didn't need the custom stub/slug: You can see how much longer it is.



Here is the version for the 99-04:



Not that most here would find it interesting, but I also drew up an adapter to bolt a 05+ bearing on the end of a 9" or any axle using a Set-20 bearing.




At the end of the day, the adapter would likely cost more to machine than anyone would want to pay. Pricing a blank to cut it from was more than i wanted to spend, before the lathe work. I think someone could make it multiple parts that weld together, for cheaper, I just haven't had the time to investigate. Once I knew the dimensions of the different components, the CAD work wasn't challenging.

Also, if you swap your kingpin axle to slip-on rotors, removing the hub as an assembly becomes almost as easy as a unit bearing.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

Wow, I would have never guessed the spacer would need to be that large with a 99-04 stub. I was thinking 0.5-.75" would be all it needed ​​​​​​

Well that kills that idea.

Also, if you swap your kingpin axle to slip-on rotors, removing the hub as an assembly becomes almost as easy as a unit bearing

This was part of the plan.

 

[ParadisePWoffrd]

Wow, I would have never guessed the spacer would need to be that large with a 99-04 stub. I was thinking 0.5-.75" would be all it needed ​​​​​​

Well that kills that idea.



This was part of the plan.

This was a 99-04 hub but with a kingpin stub shaft. I didnt have any SD stubs to measure and evaluate. With the 99-04 hub and stub shaft, it might be an easy swap. The 05+ hubs are not as simple.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

This was a 99-04 hub but with a kingpin stub shaft. I didnt have any SD stubs to measure and evaluate. With the 99-04 hub and stub shaft, it might be an easy swap. The 05+ hubs are not as simple.

I read it as the orange version was for a 99-04 stub?
​​​​​
Quick Google search says kingpin Ford Stubs are 11.375" and 99-04 stubs are 9.39" so maybe it is feasible.

How thick was your adapter?

 

[YotaAtieToo]

I really want to get cad or solid works to play with.

Maybe I should sign up for a class while everything is mandatory online, then I can get a free login.

 

[Wulf]

I really want to get cad or solid works to play with.

Maybe I should sign up for a class while everything is mandatory online, then I can get a free login.

I believe if you join the Experimental Aircraft Association for $(Xx/yr) you can get a free Solid works license.

Fusion 360 is also free for personal use.

 

[ParadisePWoffrd]

I read it as the orange version was for a 99-04 stub?
​​​​​
Quick Google search says kingpin Ford Stubs are 11.375" and 99-04 stubs are 9.39" so maybe it is feasible.

How thick was your adapter?

Here is the updated image of the CAD. The 5 bolt splindle pattern of the ford interferes with the UB pattern slightly. The larger holes are there to allow socket clearance for tightening bolts, since the UB and Knuckle are both threaded, although one could possibly be drilled out and have the adapter threaded.

You can see the thicknesses here. Orange is 99-04 and Blue 05+, both with older Ford stubs.

When drawing these the dimensions to factor are the mating flanges and their recess and spacing, along with where the stub interacts with the hub. The 05+ spacer is so long because the UB is shorter from rear to spline section. It might be possible to use a 99-04 stub with the 05+ UB and shave ~2" off the thickness.

To your other statement, I use Onshape. It is all online, so doesnt need a ton of computing power. It is free, is similar to Solidworks, and has a ton of tutorials. Downside, the free version makes all your drawings public. You can pay and keep everything private. For me, I just give things odd names, and use it for hobby/fun purposes, so it doesnt really matter.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

Any idea how much the wms is effected? A little wider would be ok, but I wouldn't want a 75" wide front axle

All online? Ya, that will never work at home, my internet is terrible :(

 

[TrailTamer]

why can't you just bolt a unit bearing directly to the knuckle, like we can with D50/D60 spindles on 94-99 dodge d60, 92-04 ford d60? they have same pilot diameter.

put unit bearing on to mark where to drill 4 new holes, drill, bolt it on??

 

[YotaAtieToo]

why can't you just bolt a unit bearing directly to the knuckle, like we can with D50/D60 spindles on 94-99 dodge d60, 92-04 ford d60? they have same pilot diameter.

put unit bearing on to mark where to drill 4 new holes, drill, bolt it on??

I think you could, but it would require custom, super short stub shafts.

Also the GM knuckle pilot hole is smaller than the Ford.

 

[TrailTamer]

I think you could, but it would require custom, super short stub shafts.

Also the GM knuckle pilot hole is smaller than the Ford.

Why will you need a custom stub shaft? can't you just reuse the stub shaft intended for the unit bearing? locking hubs or slugs will not work if it's any shorter or longer than OE.

 

[TrailTamer]

GM knuckle pilot hole is smaller than the Ford.

can you confirm this is incorrect? (see measurement of D)
GM D60
https://www.dennysdriveshaft.com/p45...y_and_gmc.html
Ford D60
https://www.dennysdriveshaft.com/p45...50_f350_a.html

 

[YotaAtieToo]

Why will you need a custom stub shaft? can't you just reuse the stub shaft intended for the unit bearing? locking hubs or slugs will not work if it's any shorter or longer than OE.

Have you been reading?

From what ParadisePWoffrd has drew up, it seems the mounting face for the kingpin knuckle is closer to the king pin pivot than the ub is to the BJ pivot.

Although this doesn't make sense when you reference the live spindle swap on the dodge knuckles.

can you confirm this is incorrect? (see measurement of D)
GM D60
https://www.dennysdriveshaft.com/p45...y_and_gmc.html
Ford D60
https://www.dennysdriveshaft.com/p45...50_f350_a.html

Hmmm, maybe I'm mistaken. I could be thinking of d44s and just have that stuck in my head.

Why don't ried and solid just drill both spindle patterns into their knuckles then?

 

[pennsylvaniaboy]

i know that you got a great deal on the housing but man a '05 supder duty 60+ busted knuckle brake kit+ artec arms+ 1550 shafts+ drive slugs has to be one of the stoutest, low budget ways to build a 60 in 2020

 

[TrailTamer]

i know that you got a great deal on the housing but man a '05 supder duty 60+ busted knuckle brake kit+ artec arms+ 1550 shafts+ drive slugs has to be one of the stoutest, low budget ways to build a 60 in 2020

basically. unbolt kingpin out & sell it. use $ from it to buy and build it up, bolt it in with enough $ left over for some beer and pizza.

Thread end\

 

[Toreadorranger]

Why will you need a custom stub shaft? can't you just reuse the stub shaft intended for the unit bearing? locking hubs or slugs will not work if it's any shorter or longer than OE.

Look at how far out the mounting surface on the unit bearing knuckle is vs the kingpin

 

[YotaAtieToo]

i know that you got a great deal on the housing but man a '05 supder duty 60+ busted knuckle brake kit+ artec arms+ 1550 shafts+ drive slugs has to be one of the stoutest, low budget ways to build a 60 in 2020

I know all about the 05+ stuff

I had this axle already, I built it for my 4runner that was leaf spring pass drop and wanted to run 6.17s and 6x5.5. None of this can be done with an 05+

Now I'm just replacing some stuff that was damaged in the fire. I have thought about cutting the c's off and doing BJ knuckles, but I already have solid knuckles and artec arms. I just found all the parts I need for less than 1 ub, so I'll be good there.

I'm still curious about the 99-04 ub on a KP knuckle though.

 

[94toytruck]

i know that you got a great deal on the housing but man a '05 supder duty 60+ busted knuckle brake kit+ artec arms+ 1550 shafts+ drive slugs has to be one of the stoutest, low budget ways to build a 60 in 2020

Some of us cant run them, they just wont fit. I run a low pinion GM housing and my ft shaft is alongside my oil pan, I had to trim my bell housing for driveshaft clearance at full bump. A HP diff of any kind wont fit in there.

 

[Sterlingfire]

I dove down this rabbit hole before just making the switch to 05+ sd.... the best route i could find is to fabricate your own custom knuckles with stub shafts in mind, or buy the Reid setup... both not cheap, one maybe less expensive, but pretty damn time consuming jigging that up to work right, and have decent geometry. Good luck my man. Maybe a cad man can draw something up???