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NEC questions (home panel swap)

Bullshit. Demand is easy to forecast with some error. It ain't hard to tailor your licensing rules to ensure there's never quite enough bodies needed and there's perpetually a shortage thereby artificially raising wages higher than those people are worth in a free market. This is how literally every licensing cartel works.

Truckers are a great example of the opposite. There is no licensing cartel because it's .gov licensing so anyone can start a school and crank out licensed drivers real quick and supply is always there to meet demand for services.

It it weren't for your licensing cartel you wouldn't make any more than a steering wheel holder does because you're not worth much more. Same goes for just about every licensed trade, not just electricians.

Dude. We don't have trades 'Licensing' like you do ( contractors only) and still have the people shortage. Firstly, few want to do real work. Especially not repetitious, dirty, or in extreme weather. Of those that do, they get trade-qualified (lifetime credential) and move on to better work - almost nobody wants to dicker with homeowners or construction sites for the rest of their lives. But they can fall back on it if times get tough.

Contractors are largely either established players that don't have to hustle for jobs, or amateurs struggling to land work at all. Between the $5k and $2k quotes, which guy you think is hurtin more when the job isn't hired out at all? As for the $5k quote.... how many hours at what rate does the worker actually see on his timesheet?

Doing business now is business-first and the craft is second (if not third). The 70's are over and you can't ply your trade with the casualness of a prostitute, nor make a months wages by working hard for 2 weeks.

Funny you bring up commercial driving; the bar for minimum mandatory training has been raised in my province, probably canada-wide. Its triple the time/$$$$ investment it was in 2016. Think of it as a "coming soon" memo.
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He manufactures and installs food manufacturing equipment. He likely knows as much or more about that shit than you do.

But by all means keep waving your 4" dick around like it's impressive. :shaking:

So he can weld stainless? Cool.



Did you get denied an apprenticeship?


Oh, and out west it's not some crazy mob run program. The East Coast is pretty tied up in Union politics and you really won't work unless you're union. That's not the case out here.
 
So he can weld stainless? Cool.



Did you get denied an apprenticeship?


Oh, and out west it's not some crazy mob run program. The East Coast is pretty tied up in Union politics and you really won't work unless you're union. That's not the case out here.

Know how I can tell you have never lived on the East Coast?
 
Know how I can tell you have never lived on the East Coast?

Everyone I've hired from the east coast is amazed at how relaxed stuff is here. They're also amazed they don't need to pay extortion money to work... :confused:
 
So you have experience by osmosis?

I have lived on both sides, several times and over several decades.

The problem exists on both sides... but less in the middle until you get to big industries.

Try moving to a 3rd world country (yes I have) and see how much easier it is there than wherever you are. It is all relative.
 
The ibew is pretty weak in GA. Ga is right to work as is most of the south. They don’t have the market share or members to throw any weight around. They can drum up man power that a non union shop may have trouble with and that’s about it.
 
So I just had a licensed electrician come out and bid on:

Relocate Meter base
Work with Duke Energy to extend the current Feed
Install Manual Transfer Switch
Install new Main Panel
Wire it all
Pull permits
Less than 1 day outage.
Leave me alone and get it done.

NTE $2500.

Pic Here: https://irate4x4.com/attachments/20240703_065008-jpg.877491/

You may want to get additional quotes.. I seem to be getting more for less...
Just got a second quote for $8500.
Same work, different prices.. :eek::eek::eek:
 
guys, do I need ground for shop lights? Can I use white as a ground, and black/red for hit/neutral?

I got some 12ga black red and white, to wire my compressor with 220, but seems like thats a bad color combo for anything 110?
 
guys, do I need ground for shop lights? Can I use white as a ground, and black/red for hit/neutral?

I got some 12ga black red and white, to wire my compressor with 220, but seems like thats a bad color combo for anything 110?
Phase tape...
 
Do you guys suggest flex / conduit and individual wires, or romex? Trying to wire up 4ft garage lights.

Wire nuts or Wago connectors?
 
Do you guys suggest flex / conduit and individual wires, or romex? Trying to wire up 4ft garage lights.

Wire nuts or Wago connectors?

Depends :flipoff2:
I generally run Romex in the walls and conduit on the surface. Canadians can run Romex right on the surface. Obviously only you know how violent you're going to be throwing stuff at the lights... :lmao:


Wago if you can be trusted to use the strip gauge and insert the wires properly. The fun ones have locking levers so future changes are real easy.

Wire nuts if you intend to twist them all into a ball and piss off the next guy working on it.
 
I got some 5 wire wagos for a project, and they seem like a godsend
 
I got some 5 wire wagos for a project, and they seem like a godsend

The only wago failures I've found is people can't be bothered to look into the clear casing and see that they didn't get the wire seated, they make a bad connection, and get hot and melt.

The other failure mode is the one guy I had push a 5th wire into the test port of a 4 port, which also got hot and melted.


Oh, and if you cross neutrals and put 40A on some #12 thhn they only last a few months... :laughing:
 
Don't use metallic flex. It's pricey, tedious, and hard to strap straight. AC cable (aka 'BX') at least is cheaper. Romex of course cheaper again. Duplex connectors can be handy. I like the look of conduit, fixture to fixture. Paints up decent if you want.

I don't like wagos for solid wire. I don't like a wire nut connection without a solid wire in the mix. I routinely run into stranded #12 (coarse strand) that doesn't fit in the grey wagos.
 
Don't use metallic flex. It's pricey, tedious, and hard to strap straight. AC cable (aka 'BX') at least is cheaper. Romex of course cheaper again. Duplex connectors can be handy. I like the look of conduit, fixture to fixture. Paints up decent if you want.

I don't like wagos for solid wire. I don't like a wire nut connection without a solid wire in the mix. I routinely run into stranded #12 (coarse strand) that doesn't fit in the grey wagos.

You're an odd man.... :flipoff2:

MC Cable is what you'll commonly find, haven't seen AC in a long time.

Flex and MC are easy enough to strap straight. You just have to work with it instead of fighting it. Having the correct straps is also key.

Wago everything! Solid or stranded, doesn't matter. Gray ones are old, they've been clear with an orange lock tab for awhile. They do come in #10 also, which is likely the old course stranded you're running into.
 
You're an odd man.... :flipoff2:

MC Cable is what you'll commonly find, haven't seen AC in a long time.
Perhaps. :flipoff2:

22 years pulling (my) wire.

AC90 cable is alive and well in Canada. What's MC? :homer:

Edit: i have used both style wagos. My work keeps ordering the grey ones. I dunno if its out of habit, or some perception they are tougher/stronger or clamp tighter.
 
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Don't use metallic flex. It's pricey, tedious, and hard to strap straight. AC cable (aka 'BX') at least is cheaper. Romex of course cheaper again. Duplex connectors can be handy. I like the look of conduit, fixture to fixture. Paints up decent if you want.

I don't like wagos for solid wire. I don't like a wire nut connection without a solid wire in the mix. I routinely run into stranded #12 (coarse strand) that doesn't fit in the grey wagos.
Just saw where Romex is now coming in new colors

The old was:
White 14-2.
Yellow 12-2
Orange 10-2
Black for 8 & 6

Now you have different colors for 14-3 , 12-3 & 10-3
I know 12=3 is purple.
 
Just saw where Romex is now coming in new colors

The old was:
White 14-2.
Yellow 12-2
Orange 10-2
Black for 8 & 6

Now you have different colors for 14-3 , 12-3 & 10-3
I know 12=3 is purple.
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Perhaps. :flipoff2:

22 years pulling (my) wire.

AC90 cable is alive and well in Canada. What's MC? :homer:

Edit: i have used both style wagos. My work keeps ordering the grey ones. I dunno if its out of habit, or some perception they are tougher/stronger or clamp tighter.

Ah, you northerners do weird shit. :flipoff2::laughing:
 
That is stupid :homer:.
Yep, I agree. They actually sell a pen to reidentify smaller gauge wires. You can do it if you color the entire length or paint three lines down the whole length or stripe with tape. If you do the tape thing, the conduit becomes one time use. HHa.
 
Well, I got white romex (14/2) for most of it.

so how is metal flex different than the BX cable,.which google shows is just flex with cable inside, and not cheap?

Im using romex for the wiring from switch to boxes, but waa going to use flex to run it ti the light itswlf, becauae its easy. Conduit will require a lot of bends that I wanted to avoid, plastic metal flex just seems.so fast and easy. I cant run romex into the light, or can I? if its ezposed on ceiling
 
so how is metal flex different than the BX cable,.which google shows is just flex with cable inside, and not cheap?
Flex comes with no wire in it. It needs to be bigger that comparable AC/MC to freely draw wire into it. Its a heavier gauge metal too. It all drives up cost.

Ah, you northerners do weird shit. :flipoff2::laughing:
pot... kettle.... :flipoff2:
 
Well, I got white romex (14/2) for most of it.

so how is metal flex different than the BX cable,.which google shows is just flex with cable inside, and not cheap?

Im using romex for the wiring from switch to boxes, but waa going to use flex to run it ti the light itswlf, becauae its easy. Conduit will require a lot of bends that I wanted to avoid, plastic metal flex just seems.so fast and easy. I cant run romex into the light, or can I? if its ezposed on ceiling

You can run romex into the light if you're going to run it into the attic and drop down into the back. Just make sure to use an appropriate connector or bushing to keep it from getting cut.

Plastic metal flex.... That's a new one :flipoff2:

I don't use a lot of flex except where I need the flexibility ... :laughing:
Grab a conduit bender and some EMT, then ask arse to teach you because electricians are all overpaid. :grinpimp:
 
You can run romex into the light if you're going to run it into the attic and drop down into the back. Just make sure to use an appropriate connector or bushing to keep it from getting cut.

Plastic metal flex.... That's a new one :flipoff2:

I don't use a lot of flex except where I need the flexibility ... :laughing:
Grab a conduit bender and some EMT, then ask arse to teach you because electricians are all overpaid. :grinpimp:
Bending conduit and making it look good is the part I suck at! :laughing: Can I get an electrician to just come bend the conduit for ceiling fans on my patio 🤣
 
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