Low budget, low skill zj build.

[fl0w3n]

Nice thrash, good luck out there.

 

[Tryloff]

Thanks bud. It was a long month for sure. I'm going to try to keep it together this time so I can just maintain and upgrade instead of rebuild.. I think I have a good base for a really solid rig now.

 

[fl0w3n]

Looks like it, or at least you might only have a small failure now compared to multiple compound failures lol

Makes me want a ZJ now

 

[Tryloff]

I'm going to weld some front limit chains in tomorrow before the race. And we fixed a brake fluid leak. Other than that, we're ready to send it.

Buy a zj! They're so cheap! Heck, the super clean low miles one I posted here last week sold for under 10k. That pretty much sets the ceiling. Any rust at all chops that price in half easy. Add a worn out interior and you have a $1500 running and driving zj ready for all of the thrills.

 

[Tryloff]

FIRST PLACE!

 

[Opiebennett]

What happened to Trish in the unlimited?

 

[fl0w3n]

FIRST PLACE!

Congrats man! Hard work paid off.

 

[Tryloff]

Congrats man! Hard work paid off.

Thank you!

What happened to Trish in the unlimited?

We were finishing the rigs Friday morning after an hour of sleep. I had no steering or brakes and she needed a fire extinguisher, battery hold down, and nut and bolt check. After getting mine ready to drive onto the trailer we decided it was time to head out and could fix the rest at the park. Poor planning lead our 6 hour drive to be 10 hours. We arrived an hour and a half after prerunning closed, so that was unfortunate. We hung out at the track Friday night and fixed a few leaks and gave each rig a once over before leaving the park for a hotel. Saturday morning we showed up a little later than we wanted to. I was able to get limiting chains welded on the front axle of the grand caravan and got Trishas battery and fire extinguisher mounted. No time to qualify by the time we were done, so we would start in the back of the pack. Before the race they do a parade lap. I stayed back to lead Trish through and help her run the YJ (first real seat time either of us have gotten in it, we had just bought it a week ago). By the time the parade lap was over, she was puking coolant and the steering fluid was leaking out of the res cap. She took the start and then hit the pits and called it a day. I started last place and drove somewhat conservative. The course was very tight this time. In the first few laps, before the trees got smashed out of the way, there were three or four corners that I had to back up to get around. In the few sections where I could really open it up , the lower gears in the axle helped a lot to get it moving. I stayed in 4 lo the entire race. I could hear my front tires digging into the fenders hard, and could feel my shocks bottoming out. After the race it was the rear of the front arch where the tires were hitting. Im going to see how much I can move the axle forward with the adjustment in this kit. I think an inch might be all I need to clear. This thing really needs bump stops. When I was almost done with my first lap, I saw the guy who is usually the fastest hit the pits. I found out later he broke a lower bj and ended up changing both out in time to make two more laps, which ended up being the fastest out there. He was catching me on the last lap but ended up getting stopped again. I hit the joker line all five laps and made it pretty easy. Keeping my jeep together is what gave me the win today. I have a short list for both jeeps and 2 months to make that happen.

 

[Opiebennett]

So awesome man.

 

[Tryloff]

So awesome man.

Thank you.


I'm tied for second in points now. If the race #2 results were correct, I'd be tied for first. With one more race to go, I'll going to have to really give it my all to get ahead.

 

[Tryloff]

A few probably dumb questions:

- Tire pressures while racing? I've always ran 20 while trail riding, but some of the others are telling me that's way too low for racing and risk bending rims / blowing tires off the bead. They're suggesting 35-40?

- How can I make this thing stop? I'm already disk front and rear. I used an XJ (drum rear) proportioning valve to get rid of the ABS system. On the road it will lock the rears up if I stomp the pedal and doesn't seem to ever lock the front. Any suggestions there?

- Does weight matter? I mean, I get that adding 1000lbs of ranch hand bumpers or whatever is not a good idea. What about gutting the interior or switching to a 10 gal fuel cell.. Any benefits to the smaller weight loss stuff or is that just for the drag racers. I'm not caged yet, but that needs to happen over the winter. That will be a considerable weight gain.

- My adjustable control arms have ~ 5" of thread on the adjustments. How much thread should I leave threaded in? I'd like to push the front axle about 1.5" forward and the rear 1" back. This allows the wheels to tuck without cutting the fenders anymore. I don't know how much these adjustments will leave yet. I'll have to figure that out when I get it back in the shop and start messing with it. I am interested in knowing a rough guideline before I start messing with it so I can stop messing around with it as soon as I figure out it won't work. If it won't work, I think I will make new control arms instead.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Tryloff]

Here's a video of me almost rolling the jeep on the last lap.

 

[gt1guy]

A few probably dumb questions:

- Tire pressures while racing? I've always ran 20 while trail riding, but some of the others are telling me that's way too low for racing and risk bending rims / blowing tires off the bead. They're suggesting 35-40?

- How can I make this thing stop? I'm already disk front and rear. I used an XJ (drum rear) proportioning valve to get rid of the ABS system. On the road it will lock the rears up if I stomp the pedal and doesn't seem to ever lock the front. Any suggestions there?

- Does weight matter? I mean, I get that adding 1000lbs of ranch hand bumpers or whatever is not a good idea. What about gutting the interior or switching to a 10 gal fuel cell.. Any benefits to the smaller weight loss stuff or is that just for the drag racers. I'm not caged yet, but that needs to happen over the winter. That will be a considerable weight gain.

- My adjustable control arms have ~ 5" of thread on the adjustments. How much thread should I leave threaded in? I'd like to push the front axle about 1.5" forward and the rear 1" back. This allows the wheels to tuck without cutting the fenders anymore. I don't know how much these adjustments will leave yet. I'll have to figure that out when I get it back in the shop and start messing with it. I am interested in knowing a rough guideline before I start messing with it so I can stop messing around with it as soon as I figure out it won't work. If it won't work, I think I will make new control arms instead.

Thanks in advance.

-Crawling pressures don't work for high speed running. Your tires are part of the suspension in reality.

-Can you get more aggressive pads for the front calipers? They'll eat rotors faster, but they should improve braking.
A different master cylinder would help too. Something with more fluid going to the fronts.
Don't know how much you steer with the rear, but there is something called the DPI LBS1 (lock resistant brake system) that gets put in the rear brake line that dampens the rear brakes until the fronts are at full pressure. It's originally a circle track thing.

DPI LBS1 - Lock Resistant Brake System

www.lefthanderchassis.com

-Weight is everything. Where that weight is, is even more important. Removing weight high up, in front of the front tires and behind the rear tires will give you the best results you can feel. Moving weight towards the center of the vehicle will pay dividends.

- 1.5 x shank dia would be a good place to stop backing out joints. Your best bet is to lengthen the arms themselves.

 

[Rockwood]

On weight: weight between the axles helps with handling and responsiveness. Weight behind the rear axle helps with bump handling.

Reducing weight in the suspension (unsprung) goes a long way towards suspension tuning. Sprung weight is less important to remove, but still useful to remove…

So you can add it back in where it helps with bumps.

Tire pressure: 35-40 is more like what trophy truck guys run. I doubt your Jeep is that heavy. 20 might be a bit low, but this isn’t super easy to figure out. The balance is between failures and ride compliance. If you’ve had some serious hits and haven’t lost a wheel/tire, you’re probably fine.

Adding some air will help high speed handling confidence though, and adding air to an end will decrease traction that end has to cure minor handling issues. Example: If the Jeep plows under throttle no matter what you do, add air to the rear to help it rotate.

 

[Tryloff]

More questions:

- on the front suspension, how much rearward movement should I plan for at full bump? My tires were hitting the wheel wells at full bump even when going straight. When I flexed it out in my shop, I have about an inch of gap. See pics 1 & 2.

- Is there a rule on how much I can smash that area in before I'm dq'd from 4600?

- if no smashing, in an effort to save tires, should I just limit my up travel or just drive very cautiously when turns and bump might meet? I don't think I can trust myself to not go full send into corners.. see Pic 3.

On another note, the front driveshaft stays the same length at full droop and full bump. 32.25" through the whole cycle.

 

[Tryloff]

I "adjusted" the area a little bit. Then took a flap disk and shaved off most of the razor blades. Going straight, I should be fine now. When at bump, almost any turning will rub pretty significantly. I got a little bit more angle out if it, but not nearly enough.

 

[Tryloff]

I got to run copilot for a trec race today. Car 2120 made a few clean passes before the rain hit. Some bald tires led to us slowing down considerably, and eventually had us slide into a pretty big ditch, sideways. The ditch put us out of the race and into last place. Everyone walked away unharmed and it was a pretty good day to be racing.

 

[Tryloff]

I got to run copilot for a trec race today. Car 2120 made a few clean passes before the rain hit. Some bald tires led to us slowing down considerably, and eventually had us slide into a pretty big ditch, sideways. The ditch put us out of the race and into last place. Everyone walked away unharmed and it was a pretty good day to be racing.

 

[Tryloff]

A little bit of race prep.

• I got my shocks rebuilt and valving changed.
• Made some front bump stops.
• Did a little fine tuning on the inner fenders.
• Rebuilt the front upper chassis side joints.
• Took the grinder to a couple rub points on the axle.

Still plenty to do, but making progress anyways.

 

[Tryloff]

I fixed the rear lower links. They both bent at the threads. I got the new links a little longer so less thread will show.

Short kinda funny story. I called BDS trying to use their "NO BS WARRENTY" for these links. They tell me that's only good for the original purchaser, which is fine and pretty understandable, but I would not call that "NO BS" like they do. Anyhow, I ask them to quote me for 2 links to replace these. They're somewhere north of 500 bucks. I tell them I'm gonna pass and he replies with " these will have a warrenty for you now so what will you do if you break the other ones you're getting". If I break these links, I'm seriously f***ing up.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

I don't think them only honoring a warranty for the original purchaser is bs.

I bent their leaf spring doing something really dumb, all they asked for was a Pic of the bent spring, and one of the eye cut off the bent spring. They sent me a new leaf, covered shipping and everything.

 

[Tryloff]

Some quick steering upgrades.

I took a higher pressure pump from an 04 wj and made it work in the zj. Had to drill out a fitting and adapt the return line. (I have a much smaller, single piece adapter on the way). The gear box is a red head 2.5 turn box. My old pump was weak and the big was original and very worn out.

 

[Tryloff]

I'm having brake issues. I think it's a booster? But I'm not sure how it happened.

My brakes have been weak since sailing in the 8.8 disk rear. Stock axle was a 35 disk. I swapped in a 97 dodge 2500 master and that made the pedal super firm like the booster wasn't doing anything. It took a lot of force to stop the jeep even from a slow roll. I verified the o ring on the master was sealing with the booster. I verified vacuum to the booster. I gave 16in of vacuum at idle. It spikes to 26in if I rev and close the throttle. I put the stock master back on and have the same results. Stock booster is the dual diaphragm one that people upgrade to.

I ordered a new booster, but I don't know if that's the issue and I only have 1 week until the next race. Any advice is appreciated.

 

[ZJs]

Are you saying the brake pedal is still firm after going back to the factory master cylinder?

 

[Tryloff]

Are you saying the brake pedal is still firm after going back to the factory master cylinder?

Yes, still firm. The brakes act like you can't squeeze them tight enough to stop the jeep quickly, even though you have your whole ass into it.

I started the engine with the master cylinder off, and the hole in the booster wide open. It ran the same as it usually does and had the same vacuum, but I could feel it sucking if I put my hand over the hole where the master would bolt to. I don't know if that's normal or not.

Could the new mhave ruined the booster? From talking to people and reading the forums, this combination seems to be what most people want. I'm fairly sure this is the same mc that's on my wife's yj, and it stops 43s.

 

[ZJs]

Sorry, I don't know. I've been keeping up on and enjoying your thread. Just wanted clarification that your brakes didn't work going back to the original MC that worked before, albeit not great. I have a 96 Grand with Chevy 1/2 ton callipers all around so I've been looking into compatible masters with larger bores.

I'd like to help but I don't know much. From what I have read the push rod between the pedal and the MC piston often must be lengthened or shortened when swapping to a MC meant for another application. Could it be the first time you hit the pedal with the Ram master installed you either over or under extended the booster causing it to fail?

 

[Tryloff]

I thought about that, but i dont think so. The booster pushrod has a rounded bolt in it and when removed, had 1/4 fine threads (28?) I made a new pushrod that was just long enough that it didn't push in on the mc when bolted together. When that didn't work and I put it back to stock, I noticed the original bolt had roughly 1/4" of "preload" on the mc. As in, when bolting the mc down, the pushrod from the booster was pressing the mc piston in. I have another bolt that I plan to keep longer, to get the same "preload" on the 2500 mc, when I get this issue sorted out. When reading online, I saw that you should make the pushrod short enough to where it doesn't push the piston in, but the original set up isn't that way..

 

[Tryloff]

Last night, I solved a problem I created.

The issue I was having is that the dash lights and parking lights would stay on and it would always act like there was a key left in the ignition.

When welding the rock slider in, I melted the wiring harness that runs along the drivers side interior.

Oops.

 

[Tryloff]

It's race day.

We SMOKED a tree in prerunning. I'm pretty sure the chassis is bent all to hell now. We did a little alignment as best we could, but it's off.

The jeep is running a little funky, but we don't have much time to mess with it, so I'm just gonna send it. There are so many new parts from both last race and this one that I think I just need a lot more seat time to get used to this thing as it is now.

 

[Opiebennett]

Good luck!