Lets talk DIY turbos & DynoJet tuning

[rockmup]

Stock fuel system, uses the DynoJET PV3 with wideband for tuning, same as with big bore kit I imagine.

Don't forget the intake side of your project. Bigger is mo betta but can you fit it in the space you have ?

 

[CarterKraft]

I can see TPS in the log I think but I couldn't get it easy to read, I'll regroup on that after it's running/driving.

 

[CarterKraft]

Don't forget the intake side of your project. Bigger is mo betta but can you fit it in the space you have ?

I can do whatever I need to really but I'm a little unsure what to do to retain dust proofness.

It has a Donaldson filter housing now with a pretty short large diameter inlet pipe.
I could upsize the housing, filter or change to a k&n style media but filtering is priority, we often get on rides where you are just eating other machines dust for miles and miles, dusting a engine isn't in the cards.

 

[rockmup]

Stock filters and tubes are too restrictive in a turbo set up and flow needs to be increased up to the TB, even if you're not opening up the TB.
I don't know anything about these motors so I have no idea whats available.

 

[aczlan]

I can do whatever I need to really but I'm a little unsure what to do to retain dust proofness.

It has a Donaldson filter housing now with a pretty short large diameter inlet pipe.
I could upsize the housing, filter or change to a k&n style media but filtering is priority, we often get on rides where you are just eating other machines dust for miles and miles, dusting a engine isn't in the cards.

If it's got a Donaldson style now, I wouldn't downgrade to a K&N for a dusty environment (assuming you are talking about one like the one below):

Find a Cat machine that uses intake plumbing that is 1/2" larger ID and use the filter/whatever plumbing works out of that?

Aaron Z

 

[CarterKraft]

Stock filters and tubes are too restrictive in a turbo set up and flow needs to be increased up to the TB, even if you're not opening up the TB.
I don't know anything about these motors so I have no idea whats available.

Fair enough, I'll investigate. Filter housings and intake pipes will be easy to upsize, there isn't shit available aftermarket so it'll be a DIY project.

 

[CarterKraft]

If it's got a Donaldson style now, I wouldn't downgrade to a K&N for a dusty environment (assuming you are talking about one like the one below):

Find a Cat machine that uses intake plumbing that is 1/2" larger ID and use the filter/whatever plumbing works out of that?

Aaron Z

Yeah those kn filters flow more but they also don't filter well enough to abuse in dust.

Upsizing the housing shouldn't be too much trouble.

 

[Wades_76_cj7]

Heard of way too many RZR engines trying to use the K&N that had the top end dusted and fucked..

It worked on my eff too fiddy why not on my u-tee-vee?

 

[CarterKraft]

Heard of way too many RZR engines trying to use the K&N that had the top end dusted and fucked..

It worked on my eff too fiddy why not on my u-tee-vee?

Yeah they are proven to work good on shit you don't care about

Bigger filter housing/media shouldn't be too much trouble.
I'll research the high HP x3 and see what they use.

 

[SLOWPOKE693]

Heard of way too many RZR engines trying to use the K&N that had the top end dusted and fucked..

It worked on my eff too fiddy why not on my u-tee-vee?

Yup, they suck for filtering out silt and will quickly ruin an engine.

 

[CarterKraft]

$100 gets a Maverick Sport housing that uses the same element as the x3.

 

[CarterKraft]

Just did some looking, MAV Sport 1000R has the fancy long runner intake, different air filter housing but same TB as the 800R, 1000 variants.
The Mav sport 1000 has the same intake system and air filter as the 800R Mav T.
So it appears just from arm chair position that the 800R/1000 components will be sufficient for my HP goals. If I wanted to get higher up NA 100+ hp range then switching to the 1000R intake might have to happen.
This leads me back to the original question, do nothing to engine and boost with the obscenely large Force turbo copy kit for 5 psi or less gain.
Swap to forged pistons and do the same as above but with extra security.
OR attempt to roll my own turbo kit with "sized correctly" turbo.
OR put 975 kit on it for more over square 1000 clone
OR find X3 powerplant and hate life while achieving greatness...

I need to figure out the plan.




MavS 1000R intake

MavT 800R and MavS 1000 intake

 

[CarterKraft]

How bad does OVER square get? The stock 1000 is same bore as 800, 91mm with 75mm stroke instead of the 61.5mm.
So the top end only 975 kits are just larger cylinders/pistons same crank.

I still need to call the MR.RPM dude...

$1250 doesn't seem bad for a 975 upgrade but if more reliable horsepower at altitude is 5 psi turbo and forged pistons that's much cheaper on the engine part.

MRRPM Canam 975 big bore kit

100% bolt-on kit requiring no additional machining. This kit can be installed with the motor still in the frame and uses your stock heads. Head work and cams are available. This kit is a perfect option for top end rebuilds or a low cost performance upgrade. Our 975cc kits can be installed on...

hightechpowersports.shop

 

[SLOWPOKE693]

$1250 doesn't seem bad for a 975 upgrade but if more reliable horsepower at altitude is 5 psi turbo and forged pistons that's much cheaper on the engine part.

That's quite the math trick you just did there.

 

[CarterKraft]

That's quite the math trick you just did there.

Well I just meant if I reuse my 125 hr cylinders etc. and put $350 worth of pistons and $100 in gaskets that leaves a decent chunk left for turbo parts.

Don't get me wrong the idea of putting a 975 kit in it over a weekend sounds awesome vs building a turbo kit over many weekends I'm sure.

Not the best comparison... This is the low boost/high volume turbo kit that force sells, no advertised HP I have seen.
If this is a fair test it seems more powerful for sure.

 

[SLOWPOKE693]

I bet a dialed in 975 kit would do the same thing in a drag race against the stock machine but would have pulled it harder out of the hole because of the lack of turbo lag.

 

[CarterKraft]

Finally got to do some pulls after breaking in the new belt.
(This was with the DynoJet tune flashed from the PV3.)
First pull maxxed at 6300 RPM on the dash, stopped at 45 mph to preserve the neighbors.
Second pull maxxed at 6200 ish RPM but I got the feeling "something" was holding the RPM at that speed, obviously clutching would do that but it didn't feel like it was really loaded very hard. I obviously don't know shit about these rubber band transmissions.

I been waiting to pull some logs with the PV3 and this was a good time.
I backed up into the rear most corner of my side yard and got a good run, WFO in high.
I had TPS and Pedal position on the screen and swore that the TPS went from 100 to 50 or something during the run.

I came inside and loaded the log into the DynoJet software and sure as fuck the TPS closes to 50 something a few milliseconds in.
This seems fuckery to me.
Any reason besides HP de-rating?
This is what they did on the 570 vtwin too.

 

[CarterKraft]

The throttle blade parameters of the stock tune.

 

[CarterKraft]

The throttle blade parameters of the stock tune.

SLOWPOKE693 what you make of the TB opening limited to 50% above 6k RPM.
Any reason to do that besides de-rating HP?

 

[SLOWPOKE693]

SLOWPOKE693 what you make of the TB opening limited to 50% above 6k RPM.
Any reason to do that besides de-rating HP?

They are either doing that to limit top speed or to keep the RPM's from increasing too rapidly that high up in the range so the clutch doesn't explode? Sombody has to make a tune that deletes that BS and more, no?

 

[CarterKraft]

They are either doing that to limit top speed or to keep the RPM's from increasing too rapidly that high up in the range so the clutch doesn't explode? Sombody has to make a tune that deletes that BS and more, no?

I think I'm gonna ad 20% opening across the board and see how it acts.

My gut says this is to easily de-rate the engine. Remember the VE calculators say this thing should make more than 50hp.

I can make these changes with the pv3 if I'm not too scared.

I have a little advantage that a buddy at work has built tunes for his Harley with the WP8 and CE3 software, he's been looking at the log and tune and doesn't really understand what they are doing.
At the current power level injector duty cycle didn't get over 50% and its pretty rich in the tables.

His suggestion was too ad 20% and recheck the log of the same distance.
I'm tempted to buy a Dragy but I think if I set up a mini drag strip with power on/ power off zones I can compare logs for etc improvements.

 

[SLOWPOKE693]

Why not 100% throttle everywhere??? My Honda uses a cable TB with a TPS sensor and I can assure you it's 100% throttle at all RPMs. That stuff you have going on must be some rubber band related shit that I don't understand.

 

[CarterKraft]

Why not 100% throttle everywhere??? My Honda uses a cable TB with a TPS sensor and I can assure you it's 100% throttle at all RPMs. That stuff you have going on must be some rubber band related shit that I don't understand.

That was my real question... is this rubber band shit?

It makes no sense to me, you can physically feel the car nose over as it shifts out and the RPM drops.

The post from Mr.RPM above makes it sound exactly like what I am seeing.

This machine has little to no aftermarket support...

 

[SLOWPOKE693]

Sounds like you need to trade it in on a new Talon R.

 

[CarterKraft]

Sounds like you need to trade it in on a new Talon R.

If they have a 50" I'd consider it...
I don't need a land yacht.

If I am going to turbo this deal anyway I need to have some knowledge of how to tune it.

I wonder how this RPM based throttle limiter behaves at altitude,
50% throttle in a low air density environment can't be really helpful?

 

[SLOWPOKE693]

50 inch!?!?!? That's called a quad where I'm from.

64" seems to be the standard for the narrow SxS models these days

 

[CarterKraft]

50 inch!?!?!? That's called a quad where I'm from.

64" seems to be the standard for the narrow SxS models these days

Agreed but the "good" trails are 50" if you are gonna run roads might as well have something with AC...

They have this deal that you combine with the PV3 to "autotune" with dual widebands.
Its part of that Force Turbo kit mentioned earlier.

https://www.dynojet.com/autotune-for-power-commander-v-dual-channel-kit/?hsa_acc=4780427770&hsa_ad=&hsa_cam=17951712434&hsa_grp=&hsa_kw=&hsa_mt=&hsa_net=adwords&hsa_src=x&hsa_tgt=&hsa_ver=3

 

[SLOWPOKE693]

I have the PV3 and the auto tune module with dual wide band O2's on my car and unless I missed something it doesn't "autotune". PPEI said it's used for data logging each cylinder so they can adjust the tune accordingly if there is an issue, but on my Honda it doesn't auto tune anything. Maybe because I run a custom tune from PPEI?

 

[CarterKraft]

I have the PV3 and the auto tune module with dual wide band O2's on my car and unless I missed something it doesn't "autotune". PPEI said it's used for data logging each cylinder so they can adjust the tune accordingly if there is an issue, but on my Honda it doesn't auto tune anything. Maybe because I run a custom tune from PPEI?

Yeah I'm not sure exactly either. The way it works is a little confusing it doesn't really run in AUTO all the time more like you have to manually run the autotune and create a tune then flash that new tune in to the ECM.
A buddy is really tight with Kory so I was going to ask him if I could get some insight as to what the fuck is going on but I think I would rather save that connection for turbo tuning if I get there.

Ripped these from FuelMotos site for Harleys, I have not confirmed it is a option on my machine.
This is the "basic" autotune that uses the OEM narrow band sensors.
I assume if you had the Autotune module you would have another option here instead of basic.

Knowledge Base - Fuel Moto University

Dynojet PV3 for Harley Davidson now includes on-device Auto Tune which uses the factory O2 sensors to generate tune corrections. This is a very effective way to fine tune your calibration based on actual running conditions. Auto Tune Basic works by using the PV3 device to process closed loop...

university.fuelmotousa.com

 

[CarterKraft]

Gonna see if I can't brick this deal tomorrow, gonna add 20% throttle blade to each cell then make some acceleration pulls in a fixed length to try and Dyno performance.
Hopefully In the logs I can see a increase in speed and still good afr.