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King pin 60 brake tech

Sean said:
Dumb question....does it use the same balljoints as the 05+ SD60? Just want to be clear about what you said above and make sure it's not the same as older 99-04 SD or Dodge BJ/BJEs. I've got BKOR's Kingjoint for the upper that I'd planned to put in a set of '09 SD60 outer knuckles....but I haven't bought brakes yet, so this may be another option to pursue.

What do you mean by 'real wheel bearings'? I take it you mean they don't use a unit bearing? And if so, I'd assume now you also need a spindle and traditional inner/outer tapered roller bearings and some sort of hub machined to accept them? What spindle and bearings does one use with this knuckle? Has to be bigger than KP60 stuff.
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We're crossing streams here.

1) The Ford SD axle used all the same ball joints and I used 2013+ outer knuckles with larger abutment spacing to get the bigger brakes. Still Unit bearing, still all Dana as intended by Ford.

2) My 14B is using SD60 inner C's, and all Ultimate 60's stuff by Dana, their knuckles, spindles bearings and hubs. I found some of the things, like the hubs for dirt cheap, used Downtofab.com 's builder spindles (way cheaper) and I had the Dodge rotors/calipers that bolt onto the Ultimate 60 knuckles/hubs which come with ball joints that match the SD60 inner C I sourced elsewhere. I had 14B inner 1550 shafts made to match the Ultimate 60 outers.

It's basically this kit: Ultimate Dana 60 Outer Kit (knuckles, inner c's, ball joints, steering arm, spindles, wheel hubs, wheel studs) - sourced through multiple sources to be much cheaper.
 
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94toytruck said:
How's pad contact like that? How much do you think you need to clear?
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Got pads today, looks like about 3/8"

20241023_162436.jpg


How safe is it to assume I can grind this off?

20241023_162443.jpg


Also curious how dumb it would be to try and split the caliper to add a ~3/16" space in the middle? I've never split on, do they use o-rings or?
 
YotaAtieToo said:
Got pads today, looks like about 3/8"

20241023_162436.jpg


How safe is it to assume I can grind this off?

20241023_162443.jpg


Also curious how dumb it would be to try and split the caliper to add a ~3/16" space in the middle? I've never split on, do they use o-rings or?
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You can at least take some off that off, where's the pad backing end in relation to the end of that caliper casting? There's a seal between the caliper halves, typically just o-rings. I like the idea of using off the shelf parts, every thing you need to change to make it work just adds BS if it breaks on the road. Trimming a caliper or a rotor a bit is 1 thing. Trimming pads, rotors, calipers to make something works kind of defeats the purpose IMHO. If we wanted custom stuff that was hard to get in a pinch we could just run fancy pants parts. How about using a larger OD rotor so the caliper fit's and the pad makes full contact?
 
94toytruck said:
You can at least take some off that off, where's the pad backing end in relation to the end of that caliper casting?
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Good question, I'm betting there is plenty of room to move it in though. The Toyota rotor just has a much smaller hat.

94toytruck said:
There's a seal between the caliper halves, typically just o-rings. I like the idea of using off the shelf parts, every thing you need to change to make it work just adds BS if it breaks on the road. Trimming a caliper or a rotor a bit is 1 thing. Trimming pads, rotors, calipers to make something works kind of defeats the purpose IMHO. If we wanted custom stuff that was hard to get in a pinch we could just run fancy pants parts.
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Totally agree, my gut says just send all this back and do everything from the 09+ or whatever ram.

But if I can grind a bit off that and make these calipers work, I'd be OK with that.

Then again, grinding probably kills core charge.....

94toytruck said:
How about using a larger OD rotor so the caliper fit's and the pad makes full contact?
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Also a good idea, the larger dodge rotors at least are a fair amount thicker.
 
This thread makes me want to dig into my wayback machine for pics from when I built my current brakes:
Ford F250 rear (7-lug era, I don't remember the year) roughly 13.8" OD, vented, 3/4"-ish thick
90's Toyota pickup/4runner calipers
Custom brackets
Two calipers per corner
It stopped well before my current engine... but my current engine idles a little high especially cold, and in first/low, tends to push through. Not an issue in second or anything in high range.
 
ScottRS said:
It stopped well before my current engine... but my current engine idles a little high especially cold, and in first/low, tends to push through. Not an issue in second or anything in high range.
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Wrong TC
 
1000035406.jpg
1000035407.jpg

Two Toyota calipers, one redrilled Ford rotor (there were six lug and seven lug variants of the same rotor, the deep hat is for in-hat drum parking brake), custom bracket. I've done this before as a slip-over rotor, I did this pinned to the back hoping to fit a smaller wheel, but it didn't work out that way.
 
Tech wise, dual calipers are surprisingly easy to bleed--primary brake line from vehicle goes to one (ideally, lower, but it doesn't actually matter that much) caliper. Bleeder port on that caliper goes to the brake line port on the other caliper. Corner bleeding is done at the downstream caliper bleeder.

Toyota M10xWTF (0.8?) bleeder port thread is so close to diameter and thread pitch of 1/8 NPT that adapting is super easy, remove the bleeder, chase the threads with 1/8 NPT tap, install pipe to AN adapter with your preferred thread sealant, and life is good.

I find myself occasionally wanting to try a recirculating fluid system but it's expensive, I don't spend enough time on my roof to need it, and it adds extra failure points. But my inner nerd thinks self bleeding brakes would be awesome.
 
ScottRS said:
1000035406.jpg
1000035407.jpg

Two Toyota calipers, one redrilled Ford rotor (there were six lug and seven lug variants of the same rotor, the deep hat is for in-hat drum parking brake), custom bracket. I've done this before as a slip-over rotor, I did this pinned to the back hoping to fit a smaller wheel, but it didn't work out that way.
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Between the twin PS pump steering system and this, I really like the way your brain thinks.
Two is one and one is none :smokin:
 
For master cylinder, I have an 80s Chevy truck vacuum boost 1-1/8" bore, with 2psi residual valves. The residual valves provide a lot of take-up and I've gotten into the habit of using them on everything big-brake, the 1-1/8" bore seems a good balance between leg power and fluid pressure. A 1-1/4" bore was too much pedal effort. I have not tried a 1" or a 1-1/16" as yet.
Booster is a mid-90's-ish V6 4runner dual diaphragm vacuum unit.
 
ScottRS said:
For master cylinder, I have an 80s Chevy truck vacuum boost 1-1/8" bore, with 2psi residual valves. The residual valves provide a lot of take-up and I've gotten into the habit of using them on everything big-brake, the 1-1/8" bore seems a good balance between leg power and fluid pressure. A 1-1/4" bore was too much pedal effort. I have not tried a 1" or a 1-1/16" as yet.
Booster is a mid-90's-ish V6 4runner dual diaphragm vacuum unit.
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Using a stock scout II vac booster (9" dual diaphragm I believe) they brakes were decent. (1981 stock dana 60 DRW bendix, then 3/4 ton Eldorado. Calipers on the 14 bolt) corvette 1 1/8 disk brake master.

They were just decent, not great.
Maybe the 2 psi residual valves may have helped?

But moving to the hydro assist and 1 7/16" master, brakes are way way better.
 
Winchested said:
Maybe the 2 psi residual valves may have helped?

But moving to the hydro assist and 1 7/16" master, brakes are way way better.
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Residual valves reduce take-up but do nothing for power; that said, they in-turn allow a smaller master that would be pedal-to-the-floor by the time take-up runs out, to be effective faster. Smaller bore master -> more line pressure for same pedal effort, at the expense of more pedal travel.

The big power adder in brakes in my (similar to your) experience is hydro boost, which I've done long long long ago, but stayed away from for a long time because of flow and steering interactions. Now that I have two pumps I think I could reasonably run hydro boost off of one, run the downstream pressure from it to my merge point with the other pump, and have that work really well for everything (except my diet, my rig is a fattie). Just more money and work, right?
 
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