King pin 60 brake tech

[YotaAtieToo]

Is anyone worried about hub centric on a crawler? Not sure any wheel I've ever ran was. Definitely not all the steel ones

 

[Grendel]

The other thing we did was made a "rotor replicator" for the back of the hub, as it's a bitch finding wheel studs that work.

So now all wearable parts are found on the shelf, including the most common 9/16" wheel stud out there.

And:

Is anyone worried about hub centric on a crawler? Not sure any wheel I've ever ran was. Definitely not all the steel ones

This is for my road going CJ8. My wheels are lug centric, so no issue there... you realize we're talking about the rotor, which can move on the hub .25"?

Not everything's low speed. We adapted the back of the hubs to the 9/16" studs the Raceline stud centric beadlocks expected.

I still don't want an oblong rotor pattern, low or high.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

The other thing we did was made a "rotor replicator" for the back of the hub, as it's a bitch finding wheel studs that work.

So now all wearable parts are found on the shelf, including the most common 9/16" wheel stud out there.

And:


This is for my road going CJ8. My wheels are lug centric, so no issue there... you realize we're talking about the rotor, which can move on the hub .25"?

Not everything's low speed. We adapted the back of the hubs to the 9/16" studs the Raceline stud centric beadlocks expected.

I still don't want an oblong rotor pattern, low or high.

I read it fast as you loose the hub centric portion of the hub for the wheel.

Obviously the rotor needs to center

 

[94toytruck]

For those of us peasants still running KP stuff. How about a brake thread?

I don't have calipers or brackets anyway, so maybe it's a good excuse to do something better?

There is the typical 3/4t conversion that I not even sure what the point it? Maybe works better with a typical jeep or Toyota Mc. My last rig was kp60 6 lug, so 1/2t brakes and still had a crazy soft pedal with the 1" FJ80 mc anyway.

Dana 60 Front Axle Disc Brake Upgrade Kit | Lugnut4x4

Upgrade the OE disc brakes on your Dodge, Chevy, or Ford Dana 60 front axle with our disc brake upgrade kit! Parts are original quality (or better) Available add-ons include performance rotors and powder coated HD calipers Everything you need to do both sides of the axle is included in every...

lugnut4x4.com

The point of these years ago was they cleared 15" wheels with no grinding and were cheap and easy to find. Back before this sport turned into people throwing their wallet at off the shelf parts you could grab all these parts for dirt sometimes free and just buy or make brackets. I run them on both axles currently and have zero issues. The calipers/pads are so common they are in stock nearly anywhere still. Also there's a few brake companies that make dual piston calipers that are direct replacement.

I actually had Spidertrax hats and rotors here and was gonna turn my hubs so they slipped over and then do Wilwood calipers and pads. I sold all of it cause it's just absurd pricing by the time you're done and if something is a problem you're not finding spares. Also those little 4 pot Wilwood are kinda worthless for anything but a small buggy too.

 

[Bebop]

The point of these years ago was they cleared 15" wheels with no grinding and were cheap and easy to find. Back before this sport turned into people throwing their wallet at off the shelf parts you could grab all these parts for dirt sometimes free and just buy or make brackets. I run them on both axles currently and have zero issues. The calipers/pads are so common they are in stock nearly anywhere still.

And with enough brake pressure, they stop just fine.

I just bought a couple of them at the local autozone. $27/pc.

Good stuff.

 

[Sean]

Contacted NWF about their D60 bracket kit and Ram 3500 rotors.

Here was my questions:

Looking at your KP60 brake bracket kit to put '09+ RAM 3500 discs on a KP Chevy D60 front axle. 2 questions:
1) What diameter do you have to turn the hub down to to get the bracket and slip fit rotor to clear?
2) How are you addressing the slip fit rotor being hub centric or are you just relying on the lugs to keep it centered?

Thanks!

Response:

We don’t have an exact Measurement as we suggest the customer to test fit with the Rotors they buy.

Yes we rely on the wheel studs and the torque on the wheels to keep the rotor in place.

 

[Winchested]

As does every slip over fit rotor in existence.

Rotors do not need to be hub centric. Not different then a wheel the bolt pattern will locate it perfectly fine.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

As does every slip over fit rotor in existence.

Rotors do not need to be hub centric. Not different then a wheel the bolt pattern will locate it perfectly fine.

I disagree

Every slip on rotor I've dealt with had very oversized stud holes and used the hub to center.

 

[Byro]

I disagree

Every slip on rotor I've dealt with had very oversized stud holes and used the hub to center.

And what would happen if the rotor wasn’t perfectly centered? Is it going to cause a vibration? It would have to be so far out for the pad to come off the rotor. In a trail rig type application I don’t see it being an issue that the rotor is not perfectly hub centric.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

And what would happen if the rotor wasn’t perfectly centered? Is it going to cause a vibration? It would have to be so far out for the pad to come off the rotor. In a trail rig type application I don’t see it being an issue that the rotor is not perfectly hub centric.

I agree there, to a point. 1/4" offcenter could cause goofy pad wear or rub calipers.

but everything he said is incorrect. Factory slip on rotors are a snug hub centric fit and lug centric wheels are centered by tapered lug nuts.

 

[Sean]

I agree there, to a point. 1/4" offcenter could cause goofy pad wear or rub calipers.

but everything he said is incorrect. Factory slip on rotors are a snug hub centric fit and lug centric wheels are centered by tapered lug nuts.

I'm on the fence. I feel like NWF would likely offer a solution if it was a problem. I guess worst case, you get custom aluminum hub centric rings from US Wheel Adapters.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

I'm on the fence. I feel like NWF would likely offer a solution if it was a problem. I guess worst case, you get custom aluminum hub centric rings from US Wheel Adapters.

$20 for the rings seems like a no Brainer if it's even a slight worry.

 

[Sean]

$20 for the rings seems like a no Brainer if it's even a slight worry.

Well, it doesn't look like the plastic cheap ones are recommended for anything but car and 1/2T truck applications. So you're more like $75 for 2 spacers or $99 for 4 for the custom aluminum ones...but still. Probably worth it for peace of mind. Hub Centric Rings Custom Aluminum (Set of 4)*Max OD=138.8mm

Am I understanding it right though? Seems like if you machine your hub to fit the ID of the brand of rotor you buy for the conversion, you shouldn't need a hub centric ring? I know there's a slight taper on a KP60 hub....just not sure where that taper starts or if it would necessitate a hub centric spacer ring.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

Well, it doesn't look like the plastic cheap ones are recommended for anything but car and 1/2T truck applications. So you're more like $75 for 2 spacers or $99 for 4 for the custom aluminum ones...but still. Probably worth it for peace of mind. Hub Centric Rings Custom Aluminum (Set of 4)*Max OD=138.8mm

Maybe if using them for wheels that are solely hub centric. Just to center the rotor while you bolt the tire on, any material would work.

Am I understanding it right though? Seems like if you machine your hub to fit the ID of the brand of rotor you buy for the conversion, you shouldn't need a hub centric ring? I know there's a slight taper on a KP60 hub....just not sure where that taper starts or if it would necessitate a hub centric spacer ring.

Exactly, unless the rotor ID is bigger than the hub OD obviously. Which I think is what's happening here.

I don't see how different brand rotors for the same application would have different ID's, but who know these days. Either way, it's an easily solved problem if you're worried about it.

 

[Sean]

Exactly, unless the rotor ID is bigger than the hub OD obviously. Which I think is what's happening here.

I don't see how different brand rotors for the same application would have different ID's, but who know these days. Either way, it's an easily solved problem if you're worried about it.

I'd guess there wouldn't be a need to turn down the OD of hub if the ID of the rotor was bigger....but I'm just guessing as I haven't laid eyes on one of these conversions to say for sure.

 

[Winchested]

I agree there, to a point. 1/4" offcenter could cause goofy pad wear or rub calipers.

but everything he said is incorrect. Factory slip on rotors are a snug hub centric fit and lug centric wheels are centered by tapered lug nuts.

Dude I'm a mechanic and Litterally none of the vehicles I've worked on at have an interference fit in the rotors.

The 2002+ 14 bolt rotors on my Scout II are slip fit, they don't Interference fit.

The stud holes would have to be 1/4" over sized to have the rotor 1/4 out of round that's just fucking dumb.

The bolt circle centers the frigging rotor. You sound like one of those numpties that believes in hub centered wheels.

All that's designed for is to make it easier to line up for morons.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

Dude I'm a mechanic and Litterally none of the vehicles I've worked on at have an interference fit in the rotors.

The 2002+ 14 bolt rotors on my Scout II are slip fit, they don't Interference fit.

The stud holes would have to be 1/4" over sized to have the rotor 1/4 out of round that's just fucking dumb.

The bolt circle centers the frigging rotor. You sound like one of those numpties that believes in hub centered wheels.

All that's designed for is to make it easier to line up for morons.

Jeez, didn't know gm was so loose fit
even my 87 samurai rotors and 97 sterling drums are a snug. I'll give you that I'm not a mechanic, but all the slip on stuff I've dealt with was hub centric and usually needed to be tapped off with a rubber hammer.

I already said hub centered wheels are probably not a big deal on an 8 lug trail rig. Get into 7k+ on the rear of my tow rig and sure, I prefer hub centric.

Either way, I think we're both beating a dead horse, if you think it's fine, run it, if you don't, spend $20 on some rings.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

I'd guess there wouldn't be a need to turn down the OD of hub if the ID of the rotor was bigger....but I'm just guessing as I haven't laid eyes on one of these conversions to say for sure.

I think the machinng their talking is the OD of the wheel flange to fit inside the rotor hat. Could be done with a grinder really.

 

[Sean]

I think the machinng their talking is the OD of the wheel flange to fit inside the rotor hat. Could be done with a grinder really.

Hmmm...hadn't considered that was what was being turned down on the Dodge kits. Interesting....I bet you're right. The "Big Brake" kit ECGS uses with the 2010 Chevy 2500 HD rotors/calipers says the hub needs to be turned to 7.890" which is probably exactly what they're talking about.

Chevy Kingpin Dana 60 Big Brake Kit

Kit Includes: Two 13" Vented Rotors Left and Right Two Piston Calipers Brake Pads Left and Right Caliper Brackets Four Caliper Bracket Bolts Sixteen Wheel Studs ONLY FITS CHEVY KINGPIN 8x6.

eastcoastgearsupply.com

 

[Grendel]

Alrighty, I am back from Fleet Week.

What happens if the hub's too small for the rotors... and so are the lugs? Right now, 9/16" wheel studs are 1/16" off.

Yeah, have to hold until you clamp down the rotors. If they're off, vibration or death wobble.

Every time you take the fucking wheel off.

at 5mph, it's not manageable. This isn't a crawler issue.

How many of you shit posting are actually doing this?

 

[Winchested]

You're not getting vibration from a rotor being 1/16th off..

I litterally drive on 40's without balance at 150 lbs per corner up to 80 mph. And I don't have any annoying vibrations.

 

[Grendel]

You're not getting vibration from a rotor being 1/16th off..

I litterally drive on 40's without balance at 150 lbs per corner up to 80 mph. And I don't have any annoying vibrations.

I have a different experience. I drove my CJ8 without centered rotors and hell yes, the front jumped and wobbled. A $20 ring fixed it.

See, my thick assed Racelines don't let the lug nut taper center the rotor.

You don't have the gap... as you said earlier, you have Chevy 14B rotors, like the one in the pic, on, I assume, a Chevy hub. These are what ECGS sells for the 16" wheel kit, a smaller diameter rotor, that is a hub centered. The barrels center the rotors and the wheel studs have some slop, and I bet that a tapered lug nut will clean that up, if the wheel's thin enough. I think this is what Yukon meant by interference fit.

This is one of those rotors, on the same Yukon Chevy/Dodge 60 hub. Guess what, it's hub centered... like most OEM slip fit rotors. Now go back and look at the Dodge rotor video I posted on the same hub and studs.

Sean

To be clear, the only mods we made to the Yukon hubs was to turn down the outside flange to the spec listed in the directions, which made them too small to center the rotor. We didn't have to turn down the hub barrel at all. We didn't have the rotors I wanted to use, so we followed the ECGS (Torque) directions.

Other GM (dually) hubs, we had to turn the flange and barrel.

Next time, I will turn less off the outer flange, so that the slip fit rotor is centered by the outer flange and not the barrel and the rings I made. I will have hub centered rotors (like OEM) on any project we do... and we do about 7 of these a year, meaning 2009+ Dodge rotors on GM/Yukon hubs.

I like what NWF said and I get why.

 

[Sean]

I have a different experience. I drove my CJ8 without centered rotors and hell yes, the front jumped and wobbled. A $20 ring fixed it.

See, my thick assed Racelines don't let the lug taper center the rotor.

You don't have the gap... as you said earlier, you have Chevy 14B rotors, like the one in the pic, on, I assume, a Chevy hub. These are what ECGS sells for the 16" wheel kit, smaller rotor, with a a hub centered rotor. The barrels center the rotors and the wheel studs have some slop, and I bet that a tapered lug will clean that up, if the wheel's thin enough.

This is one of those rotors, on the same Yukon Chevy/Dodge 60 hub. Guess what, it's hub centered... like most OEM slip fit rotors. Now go back and look at the Dodge rotor video I posted on the same hub and studs.

Sean

To be clear, the only mods we made to the Yukon hubs was to turn down the outside flange to the spec listed in the directions, which made them too small to center the rotor. We didn't have to turn down the hub barrel at all. We didn't have the rotors I wanted to use, so we followed the ECGS (Torque) directions.

Other GM (dually) hubs, we had to turn the flange and barrel.

Next time, I will turn less off the outer flange, so that the slip fit rotor is centered by the outer flange and not the barrel and the rings I made. I will have hub centered rotors (like OEM) on any project we do... and we do about 7 of these a year, meaning 2009+ Dodge rotors on GM/Yukon hubs.

I like what NWF said and I get why.

Thanks for the additional information. That makes so much more sense for a moron like me who almost needs to lay hands on the parts to see how it all goes together.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

I hadn't even thought of using the wheel flange to center the rotor, that makes more sense why different manufacturers would have different dimensions

 

[Sean]

I hadn't even thought of using the wheel flange to center the rotor, that makes more sense why different manufacturers would have different dimensions

Yeah...me either. Was only picturing using the hub barrel. Makes sense though. Either could work. And IIRC, the factory cast hubs are tapered so it likely makes more sense to make the OD of the wheel flange match to the ID of the rotor hat.

 

[toomany]

I disagree

Every slip on rotor I've dealt with had very oversized stud holes and used the hub to center.

Alrighty, I am back from Fleet Week.

What happens if the hub's too small for the rotors... and so are the lugs? Right now, 9/16" wheel studs are 1/16" off.

Yeah, have to hold until you clamp down the rotors. If they're off, vibration or death wobble.

Every time you take the fucking wheel off.

at 5mph, it's not manageable. This isn't a crawler issue.

How many of you shit posting are actually doing this?

Put me in the camp of it doesn't matter and is a non issue for the most part.

I converted the 10B in my 70 Jimmy to H3 calipers and slip on rotors. Used a grinder to turn the hubs down so the rotors would slip over.

I did upgrade to 14mm studs at the same time and they are a better fit for the rotors, but there are people out there running the factory ones with no problems either.

Setup has been 100+ on the highway with zero vibrations. Stops perfectly fine with nothing weird felt in the pedal.

 

[Grendel]

Put me in the camp of it doesn't matter and is a non issue for the most part.

I converted the 10B in my 70 Jimmy to H3 calipers and slip on rotors. Used a grinder to turn the hubs down so the rotors would slip over.

I did upgrade to 14mm studs at the same time and they are a better fit for the rotors, but there are people out there running the factory ones with no problems either.

Setup has been 100+ on the highway with zero vibrations. Stops perfectly fine with nothing weird felt in the pedal.

Right, your rotors are centered by the lugs. I didn't want 14MM, shouldered lugs, but it's a way to do it. All my 4x4's use the same wheel studs/spline drive lug nuts.

I posted video, you can get a rotor off center, using the exact kit that Sean asked about.

If you do what they tell you to, you can get a wobble or a vibration if you're not careful. It's not that big an issue, surprised we have so many pages on it.

Again, I agree with the NWF stuff, use some caution and turn down the hub flange to the exact OD to center the rotor, use a wheel stud like you did , or not... and avoid a very small issue.

It's not rocket science - having 14lbs off center can cause an issue, just like missing a few ounces on your rim can cause and issue. Avoid it.

 

[welndmn]

I am still a 5 lug KP 60 as well, but like 15 years ago I just used the 1/2 ton Dodge rotors, they are 13" and 5 on 5.5.
I had to turn the back of the hub to fit inside the rotor, then the brackets I needed were just flat 3/8 plate.
I'd take but a pic, but the tires are on it and they are heavy :P

 

[YotaAtieToo]

I'm pretty tempted to just buy these and fab tabs for the dodge calipers. Doesn't seem like rocket science.

Chevy Front Dana 60 Disc Brake Bracket Pair

Check out the deal on Chevy Front Dana 60 Disc Brake Bracket Pair at RuffStuff Specialties

www.ruffstuffspecialties.com

 

[Grendel]

They're really not that complicated.