Hummer H3 Build

[06h3]

Ok, so I disconnected the drag link and the 8in ram cycles to just before the steering stop hits on both sides.

I then took my drag link and put it over the knuckle in the closer hole. And it cycles what the ram can. Just before stop to stop.

So the inner hole is definitely going to do the trick. Now for the challenge…I need to go under the steering arm so I don’t have bump steer.

I had the drag link on top and the track bar on the top hole but I had frame interference issues. That’s why I went down one hole on the track bar, and had to go under the steering arm to avoid bump steer.

It’s like I will damn near need a 90* bend in it, which I am not sure what load a drag link sees with ram assist. I know without ram assist it will bend immediately.







Yes, I know I need to trim my track bar bracket more “professionally” so it isn’t ghetto. I’ll get to that.



All this and then I get to figure out how to fit the tires better

 

[Lincoln]

So you are needing roughly 1.5” change in the track bar location to use the topside of the arm?

what’s it hitting? Can you lower the frame end, or a little on each end?

I’m running a tweaked track bar for clearance and haven’t had an issue. The tweaked drag link I had for a while was.

The ram does take stress off both but I would do whatever I could not to run a bent draglink.

 

[06h3]

Frame side is already on the bottom hole. I could go back to a higher hole on the axle side but I’ll have to notch the frame.

Let me get a pic tomorrow of how much bend is necessary. I have some pre bent pieces from an old project I’ll use to get an idea

 

[Lincoln]

Notching the frame an inch or so? I would do that, done it before. Would do it before bending the drag link.

If you have hoops front to back for the shocks, or the cage going forward. You probably already added enough strength for a boxed in notch.

 

[06h3]

Yeah I have shock hoops right behind where the notch would be. That is tied to a cross tube tying in the shock hoops. My exo stops at the a pillar.

I have room to add some box tubing on the framerail above the notch section to add in strength.

 

[Lincoln]

Even better. Front frame rails supporting sheet metal and the steering box. Oh and the winch. For a small notch you really don’t need much.

That thing probably has huge frame rails that supported all the deleted independent stuff. If so you could probably just recess some tube in it or notch it and it won’t matter. Really worried put a fish plate around it and do a bunch of plug welds.

The higher and flatter the track bar is the higher the roll center.

 

[RunningProblem]

Notch the frame.

 

[06h3]

I still need a bend in the drag link over. Maybe I didn’t mention it but I have had about a 25* bend in the drag link for about 6 years. It has never bent or pretzeled further so over the steering arm I will still need it.

Under the steering arm I will need about a 50* bend.

Edit: just wanted to throw it out there because I think it was mentioned that over the arm would be straight but it won’t be

 

[Lincoln]

Why can’t it be straight? Hit the frame as well?

I would still notch it. Having the roll center higher adds stability and makes it drive tighter. Well worth a little notch in the frame that is only supporting sheet metal and a winch.

I’m not against bends but I do what I can to avoid them. The tie rod on my dads junk is behind the axle On a high pinion 44. It has a hump in it to go over the diff. I put poly washers around the spacers to keep it from rocking. It’s been that way since ‘06. The rocking a drag link can do is what bugs me. Many end up with a dead spot or just sloppy.

Anyway that’s a mute point when there is a new window that needs cut.

 

[06h3]

It runs into the track bar. I’ll see what I can do to get around it.

I’m with you though. I hate bends in anything. If the ends are not clocked in the opposite direction it causes a dead spot in the steering (for a bend in a drag link or tie rod)

On my track bar that had to have a bend I went with a uniball on one end and poly spacers so it couldn’t wobble and potentially run into things.

I had my track bar on the highest hole for years and went down one on my latest rendition and swore it felt less stable and had more body roll and I was told that it’s so minimal you shouldn’t feel it. I disagree.

 

[chaplinfj60]

Man those 43's are really limiting what you can get. I'll bet moving the control arms closer together at the frame will not get you much more then you already have. Less back space on your wheels will help on paper, but it will create more problems then they will eliminate IMO. How close do your tires come to contacting your frame at full lock both ways? I remember reading somewhere that stock super duty axle get almost 38° steering. I wonder where kingpin axles are when measuring stop to stop?

my king pin feels close to 25, i do a shit ton of three point turns

 

[Lincoln]

That’s odd because it should be the opposite. But there are other things going on.

I moved the front axle forward on my dads junk and ran into many of the same problems. Smaller axle too.

Can you move anything else around? Even if painful? Box forward? Track bar backwards? Axle? Sometimes it doesn’t take much to relieve an interference.

On the lowers. Years ago someone at the old site dog legged them and put a small bar sideways near one end to control the rotation. Looked like a sway bar link going sideways. I don’t remember who and how it turned out long term but it looked slick.

 

[06h3]

my king pin feels close to 25, i do a shit ton of three point turns

See YotaAtieToo I’m not that far off from others but I’m working to make it much better

That’s odd because it should be the opposite. But there are other things going on.

I moved the front axle forward on my dads junk and ran into many of the same problems. Smaller axle too.

Can you move anything else around? Even if painful? Box forward? Track bar backwards? Axle? Sometimes it doesn’t take much to relieve an interference.

On the lowers. Years ago someone at the old site dog legged them and put a small bar sideways near one end to control the rotation. Looked like a sway bar link going sideways. I don’t remember who and how it turned out long term but it looked slick.

I’d love pics on that setup your talking about. I’d consider building square tube control arms to get some angle in them for tire clearance.

Box is up against the body mount. I can flip the pitman arm 180* and get a “reverser” box. I gotta find it but someone had one and it was trick.

In all reality, there are many things I would have done differently starting from scratch. When I did the SAS on my H3, I was one of like 3 people. One guy used this xterra box, said, cool….it’s figured out, I’ll do that. The jump in performance doing a Sas was insane. Now im dealing with the, I would have done this, years later.

I’d rather not find a forward swing box. I’d rather index it 180* and put a reverser in it

 

[YotaAtieToo]

What about making a longer pitman arm instead of shortening the axle side?

 

[06h3]

What about making a longer pitman arm instead of shortening the axle side?

Track bar is in the way.

 

[06h3]

It seems like the answer is to do a forward facing pitman arm. The front to back angle will be there slightly (like pitman arm hole is not 100% inline with high steer arm hole) but from what I have read I don’t think that’s an issue as long as the angle front to back isn’t stupid

 

[bradp674]

I would just go full hydraulic if it was me. I never had a problem with mine on the road with 43's. Although I didn't drive a lot on the street or at highway speeds, when I did, it drove like a normal lifted vehicle.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

I would move the box forward before I ran a forward arm.

I can see that won't be easy either, but at this point I don't think there is an easy way out.

 

[06h3]

I would just go full hydraulic if it was me. I never had a problem with mine on the road with 43's. Although I didn't drive a lot on the street or at highway speeds, when I did, it drove like a normal lifted vehicle.

I am curious what people truly think of full hydro on road for longer periods of time.

In 2022, I drove the hummer less then any other year before. I put 1000 miles on it, when I said that I had a few people that were surprised and said holy shit, that’s a lot. I thought it was a little. I can think of more then one occasion off the top of my head where I was driving for an hour plus on the freeway at 70-80 mph. I even daily drove it for 2 weeks when my wife’s car was in the body shop and she drove my work car. I need it to be 100% comfortable and road worthy. I’m not anti full hydro, I don’t give a shit that the DOT doesn’t approve of it being road legal. I just want to be able to drive it comfortably.

Full hydro solves 1 problem and that’s packaging. My current setup will turn 43s when bound up. I don’t have complaints about it.

Does it return to center? I have driven 2 full hydro rigs and I know 1, if not both, have “return to center” orbitals (load reactive?) and they don’t return to center. It just doesn’t feel natural. I’m open to full hydro…if it does what I want and that’s to feel natural.

I would move the box forward before I ran a forward arm.

I can see that won't be easy either, but at this point I don't think there is an easy way out.

Easy is never the option when you have an H3 but been there before

 

[YotaAtieToo]

I am curious what people truly think of full hydro on road for longer periods of time.

In 2022, I drove the hummer less then any other year before. I put 1000 miles on it, when I said that I had a few people that were surprised and said holy shit, that’s a lot. I thought it was a little. I can think of more then one occasion off the top of my head where I was driving for an hour plus on the freeway at 70-80 mph. I even daily drove it for 2 weeks when my wife’s car was in the body shop and she drove my work car. I need it to be 100% comfortable and road worthy. I’m not anti full hydro, I don’t give a shit that the DOT doesn’t approve of it being road legal. I just want to be able to drive it comfortably.

Full hydro solves 1 problem and that’s packaging. My current setup will turn 43s when bound up. I don’t have complaints about it.

Does it return to center? I have driven 2 full hydro rigs and I know 1, if not both, have “return to center” orbitals (load reactive?) and they don’t return to center. It just doesn’t feel natural. I’m open to full hydro…if it does what I want and that’s to feel natural.

Easy is never the option when you have an H3 but been there before

I can't say I've driven full hydro at 80 mph, but people do. I've had 3 different setups on 2 different rigs and 2 of 3 weren't bad at all. Not getting a 2 turn lock to lock setup helps. Alignment has a lot to do with it also.

How many guys are full hydro on UA? I know Sam Gillis ran that same buggy with FH for years.

I'm fine with it for a rig that sees occasional street time, but I have a hard time saying to put it on something that you plan to use on the highway at 65+.

 

[Lincoln]

That looks exactly like cluster fucks I’m used to.

What’s it look like from the other side? Like,,,,because,,,,,,it’s 10x easier than driving over and looking.

Maybe ScottRS would be nice enough to add some words of wisdom on the steering And hydro.

Just got back from a rescue north of Bliss. Me, “don’t go out there it’s a mess and that mud is bottomless.” Friend, “I have to go chukar hunting, it will be fine.” 2:00 I get the call. ”It’s siting on the frame. Can you bring me a shovel”.

 

[06h3]

I know Sam has, Keith Bailey has had rigs on and off with full hydro. The reader with the green Tacoma had full hydro. It can be done.

Full hydro in my opinion solves one problem, packaging. For now I think I will stick away from it.

I’d say historically I probably would have already started a solution and moved on. It may have worked, or may have not….and then I have to redo it. This forum is making me slow down and access the options and I appreciate the dialogue guys.

So here’s my options.

Leave everything the way it is, make a drag link with a 50ish degree bend.

Leave the box the way it is, go up one hole on the axle side track bar, go over the steering arm with the drag link, notch the frame and still have a 25ish degree bend in my drag link (had that for years)

Flip the pitman arm 180* and get a straight drag link…could probably have it straight both under or over the steering arm. That would require me to send the box out to have the rotation reversed so it works correctly or find an inline “reverser”

Or use an FJ80 box or something with a forward facing pitman to achieve above.

I can mock up a flipped pitman arm with ease and get pics of angles.

Lincoln ive been there done that….the best part is mud falling in your eyes for the next 2 years anytime you work on it now

Your welcome to stop by anytime!

 

[RunningProblem]

you could research an Astro van steering box with forward arm. It might bolt up.

astro van box in a yj

Can someone tell me what year astro van steering gear boxes fit the yj to do the front stretch? Ive searched but apparently not hard enough but im going to a junkyard tomorrow and i wanna get one but not sure what year to get. Thanks Steve

www.pirate4x4.com

 

[Lincoln]

I would do this because I'm lazy:
"Leave the box the way it is, go up one hole on the axle side track bar, go over the steering arm with the drag link, notch the frame and still have a 25ish degree bend in my drag link (had that for years)"

But if the Astro van box would work I would be very tempted to give it a try.

My junk has permanent concrete mud on it, like it needs a chisel to get it off until you are working on it and someone closing the shop door gets you pelted in the face with quarter size chunks fall off. It's approaching 150,000 miles in Bruneau. Most of it hunting in the winter.

 

[Lincoln]

Static Wayne's rig had the links to keep the arms from rotating. I think I saw some other versions as well. Post #3.

Mounting shocks on suspension links w/ flex joints on...

So my lowers are built now and I was planning on using the LCAs to mount my shock to the entire build since that's what P&T Jeeps did... I was reading his build thread again a few weeks ago and noticed he had rubber joints on one end so the link doesn't rotate... until then it just never crossed...

www.pirate4x4.com

 

[06h3]

Gahhhh I just wrote a bunch of this and it was lost.

Anyways, nothing has been done

The company I work for got bought out and we had new roles implemented Jan. 1st. Was on the road all week 2 weeks ago, all week last week and got back on a Saturday late afternoon which is rare but sucks. I’m gone again tomorrow and gone all week, then on vacation the week after so it will be atleast 2 weeks till I get back to it.

With that said, I have a plan on how to get the 34* of steering (think it was 34*, the exact amount is a page back) I won’t do full hydro.

I’m going to use the inner hole, leave the 25* bend I have now in the drag link, go over the steering arm, up a hole on the track bar, notch the frame and I’m not against the forward swinging pitman for a straight drag link but either way, I have a direction on that.

So now that I can get the angle I need, I run into crap and the main issue is the lower control arms.

I measured the control arm where the tire hits to the yoke, since that was a constant. Then I disconnected the control arm, moved it inboard till the tire wouldn’t hit at full crank and in the end I gotta go inboard 2.375in where the tire hits the control arm.

To go 2.375in at that spot I gotta go inboard 6.5ish inches at the frame on each side.

I don’t like that because I think it’s too much triangulation for 3 link and will cause funky things and I don’t like having the links so far inboard on a bolt on crossmember, I feel like it’s a lot of leverage and load.

Here’s a pic of it where it would have to be in relation to the existing mount.

Now I tried moving it as little as possible using the old inside hole as the outside hole so that would be about 2 5/8 since that’s how wide the heim is with misalignments.

Moving it like this gets me 1 of the 2.375in.

I could do that, add .5in spacer and get me 1.5in and live with that or do a bend in the control arm to get the full 34ish degrees.

 

[06h3]

Here is a pic of the current link setup, I have a little triangulation. The 2nd pic seems too much. (Upper link is different since my 3 link redo but figured I’d show the lowers)

Here is where the control arm hits. It’s about a 7in section on a 37in control arm 17in from the frame side hole.

I could do 2x2 .25wall square tubing, fixed uniball on one end. It’s easier to do bends with notching a section out and welding it back together with a fish plate.

I’m not sure if a bend is just a disaster on a lower arm or not.

I guess I’m just spitballing ideas between these past 2 posts

 

[YotaAtieToo]

Out of all the things to change, tires seem the easiest. You seem to like those tires, but damn are they wide. You have some other options that are much narrower.

 

[06h3]

Yeah, I need to come to terms with it.

I am just so damn fearful my next set of tires will leave me disappointed. I don’t know if it’s the width that makes these work so great on the hummer or what.

Ian Johnson does a Q&A on his YouTube channel and someone asked what’s the best tire?

It was probably the most honest answer I’ve seen, especially coming from a guy who is sponsored…”it depends.” At first, I thought he was dodging the question but didn’t. He said on lockjaw, I’ve run x, y and z. Y just worked the best on that rig.
On this rig, I also ran x, y and z but x worked so much better on this one. I forgot the brands but he mentioned em. I think it was bfg, Nitto, and Falken in his examples but he was honest and said this brand tire just worked better on this rig. He said the most important thing to NOT do, is buy a set because a YouTube influencer said these are the best….with that said, I think these mickeys have transformed my rig, yes, they are bigger then any other tire I have run, yes they are wider, yes they are more gnarly then any other tire I have run. I think the width on the hummer is what helps. It’s a big rig and because it’s so wide it effectively “narrows” the belly to get hung up. It’s so damn wide that it is keeping me on top of obstacles where a narrower tire may fall in the crack and end up on my belly. Who knows, it’s a hunch.


With the price of tires these days it sucks to “test” a set out. I’d consider non sticky 42in treps. I think it tests my theory, they are similar in height, similar in terms of a gnarly tread pattern, the main difference is width. I’d go non sticky because I still put atleast 1000 miles a year on road. If they work just as good, then it wasn’t the same width, it was the height and tread pattern, if they don’t, width has something to do with it

 

[chaplinfj60]

so i just picked up a set of Blems from intrco, 40x13.5r17 and they were 298 per tire. it would be worth looking there and if you see something you like try it out with out the huge cost. just an idea. but i also agree with a big rig, wide is good