How i almost just got scammed and jumped selling my tacoma...

[Grnjp92]

It was after I hit it. We sometimes get movers in PRS comps, but it's usually a set pace, maybe 4mph and it's not that hard if you know your speed holds. Now a bouncing deer or antelope that's a different thing. Shit, at that distance with the loads I was shooting today, the TOF is over 2 seconds, a lot can happen in 2 seconds.

That's all I'm saying, it's one thing to hit semi stationary targets or ones that are relatively predictable. And something else to hit a live target. Like I said where I live, any shots are 100 or less. So not much reason to shoot further. Unless it's just for fun. Most of the folks around here shoot game and as I said it would be hard to shoot much past 100.

 

[Grnjp92]

This needs to be repeated.

I think the part about not trusting himself needs to be highlighted. The rest of it is good advice as well, but if you just keep the image of a gun as a tool... well you don't need to use it... till you need to.

 

[Bonanza]

I think the part about not trusting himself needs to be highlighted. The rest of it is good advice as well, but if you just keep the image of a gun as a tool... well you don't need to use it... till you need to.

If you trust yourself to shoot well under stress that only evinces to me that you haven't trained under stress. Maybe you have-- I don't know you or your background. But I've done quite a bit of shooting training with not-available-to-the-public simulators, so if you have more training than I have than hat's off to you. I bet nearly everyone on this forum knows how to shoot a gun reasonably accurately, but plinking at the range isn't what I'm referring to.

The TLDR, as it were, of my comments is that I believe everyone who decides that a CCW is worth it on balance, that they be cognizant of what happens in a stressful/hostile situation and train in that exact state of being to mitigate the natural human responses. I am aware of what happens, but lack the time or care to train it, so as a result, I do not trust myself to respond to threats in public with a firearm.

In your own house, hell-- blast away. The law is pretty much on your side and statistically you'll probably only kill your own family.

 

[Ranch Hand]

Interesting to see everyone's point of view on armed/unarmed. To each their own I guess. As far as brandishing in public goes, when I get in a dicey situation, I personally sweep back my oilskin duster to expose my six shooter on my hip, hover my hand above the notched pearl grips and hit 'em with my best Clint Eastwood squinty eyes stare. I've never had the situation escalate beyond that point -- except for that one traffic cop -- that didn't end too well.

 

[Sandy Johnson]

If he had lamb kabob breath, i'd have decked him right in his lips with a left cross.

Trampas right now:

 

[Grnjp92]

If you trust yourself to shoot well under stress that only evinces to me that you haven't trained under stress. Maybe you have-- I don't know you or your background. But I've done quite a bit of shooting training with not-available-to-the-public simulators, so if you have more training than I have than hat's off to you. I bet nearly everyone on this forum knows how to shoot a gun reasonably accurately, but plinking at the range isn't what I'm referring to.

The TLDR, as it were, of my comments is that I believe everyone who decides that a CCW is worth it on balance, that they be cognizant of what happens in a stressful/hostile situation and train in that exact state of being to mitigate the natural human responses. I am aware of what happens, but lack the time or care to train it, so as a result, I do not trust myself to respond to threats in public with a firearm.

In your own house, hell-- blast away. The law is pretty much on your side and statistically you'll probably only kill your own family.

I'd say if you allowed the threat, or possible threat within 7 10 feet you have already fucked up. That said... are you telling me that you can't hit a man sized target at 7 10 feet? I'm an advocate of not putting myself in a situation like that. Much like I'm not an advocate for fire in my house or car...or neighbors. Now if you use the random shooting or stabbing in a public place, would it not be nice to have a tool that may help you to extract yourself and your family from said situation?
I'm not a Billy badass I do my due diligence i.e. not putting myself in places that I probably shouldn't be.

 

[Sandy Johnson]

I'd say if you allowed the threat, or possible threat within 7 10 feet you have already fucked up. That said... are you telling me that you can't hit a man sized target at 7 10 feet? I'm an advocate of not putting myself in a situation like that. Much like I'm not an advocate for fire in my house or car...or neighbors. Now if you use the random shooting or stabbing in a public place, would it not be nice to have a tool that may help you to extract yourself and your family from said situation?
I'm not a Billy badass I do my due diligence i.e. not putting myself in places that I probably shouldn't be.

Criminals don't follow gun laws right? Need to assume that they'll also have a gun, right? Can they not also hit a man sized target at 7-10 feet?

 

[Roc Doc]

If you trust yourself to shoot well under stress that only evinces to me that you haven't trained under stress. Maybe you have-- I don't know you or your background. But I've done quite a bit of shooting training with not-available-to-the-public simulators, so if you have more training than I have than hat's off to you. I bet nearly everyone on this forum knows how to shoot a gun reasonably accurately, but plinking at the range isn't what I'm referring to.

The TLDR, as it were, of my comments is that I believe everyone who decides that a CCW is worth it on balance, that they be cognizant of what happens in a stressful/hostile situation and train in that exact state of being to mitigate the natural human responses. I am aware of what happens, but lack the time or care to train it, so as a result, I do not trust myself to respond to threats in public with a firearm.

In your own house, hell-- blast away. The law is pretty much on your side and statistically you'll probably only kill your own family.

I took a PCC course at Gunsite and they have a pretty sweet shoot house, well I ain't no door kicker from Fallujah, so I tried to remember all the instruction and my previous experience in a shoot house. So I'm entering the room, clearing sections as they become available, then I realize I've gone tunnel vision and missed the bad guy behind a wall on my left, I know he's there because the large mirror shows him in his hidey place, which also means he can see me. I told the instructor I would have shot right through that flimsy wall and backed the fuck out of the room and looked for another entrance, and he agreed that was good strategy, and thanked me for not shooting through his wall. This with nobody shooting at me, no screaming hostages, static targets, enough light, etc.. Clearing is a high level skill.

 

[Tiha]

If you trust yourself to shoot well under stress that only evinces to me that you haven't trained under stress. Maybe you have-- I don't know you or your background.

There is a lot of truth there.

I normally CC and on more than one stressful situation where it would have been acceptable to brandish I did not even remember I was carrying. It was not my first thought. By far. Maybe if the scenario was involving the other person with a gun instead of other object it would have reminded me that I did bring a gun to a gun fight.

But I do carry, makes me feel better, makes wife and kids feel better. But I have never open carried.

Hope I never have to shoot someone. But I don't want to be killed for lack of shooting back.

 

[subybaja]

At any time during the interaction, if I felt my life was in danger, I could have quickly turned the situation around and "fallen" for their scam and take the low ball offer and been on my way.

Lay back and enjoy it, it'll be over soon, and I'm sure he'll be nice to you after.

Bold strategy.

 

[shortbus4x4]

Lay back and enjoy it, it'll be over soon, and I'm sure he'll be nice to you after.

Bold strategy.

It's a Toyota thing, you wouldn't understand.

 

[Bonanza]

I'd say if you allowed the threat, or possible threat within 7 10 feet you have already fucked up. That said... are you telling me that you can't hit a man sized target at 7 10 feet? I'm an advocate of not putting myself in a situation like that. Much like I'm not an advocate for fire in my house or car...or neighbors. Now if you use the random shooting or stabbing in a public place, would it not be nice to have a tool that may help you to extract yourself and your family from said situation?
I'm not a Billy badass I do my due diligence i.e. not putting myself in places that I probably shouldn't be.

When I qual'd with my snub nose, on my first shot from draw with the instructor watching, I missed at that range by a country mile. It was a hammerless 342, which I picked because it would never jam, nor would I have to worry about a safety or if it was racked. I wanted the heavy pull because I thought I'd shoot myself in the foot if I was trying to draw too quickly. That was the gun I did most of my training on, and today I'm a decent shot with it but know it's not a gun fighter's gun. My Glock 43 I'm 100x more accurate. After that first shot and I calmed down I was on target, but yikes.

A lot of our training is watching videos of cops panicking and dumping 30+ rounds at neat point blank and missing every one. I think the go-to video is that poor SOB who pulled over the retired marine, who got a rifle from his trunk and murdered the cop, while the cop fired again and again, missing every single shot.

So to answer your question, I'd assume I'd miss over 90% of my shots at that range, assuming an actual combat scenario. I only trained to withdraw and cover my exit. In comparison, BJ Baldwin-- that dude trains properly from the looks of things. I suspect he'd do just fine in a combat situation.

 

[300sniper]

Golly, a whole 372 yards, maybe Mark Wahlberg could make that shot.

You forgot the speedy 10mph wind!

 

[Wheelin66bronco]

Damn! Like others I buy and sell a lot, more as a fun hobby.
I've not seen that scam before but now I can watch for it.

I have never felt threatened or nervous, but I am sure when someone talked you into meeting them at 11:30pm your spidy sense had to be tingling, I don't even want to met people before 10am!

Reading some of the comments here, I think people are holding when they go to church!

You're also not a small dude with chicken legs. Typically people of larger stature don't get fucked with as much.

 

[Roc Doc]

When I qual'd with my snub nose, on my first shot from draw with the instructor watching, I missed at that range by a country mile. It was a hammerless 342, which I picked because it would never jam, nor would I have to worry about a safety or if it was racked. I wanted the heavy pull because I thought I'd shoot myself in the foot if I was trying to draw too quickly. That was the gun I did most of my training on, and today I'm a decent shot with it but know it's not a gun fighter's gun. My Glock 43 I'm 100x more accurate. After that first shot and I calmed down I was on target, but yikes.

A lot of our training is watching videos of cops panicking and dumping 30+ rounds at neat point blank and missing every one. I think the go-to video is that poor SOB who pulled over the retired marine, who got a rifle from his trunk and murdered the cop, while the cop fired again and again, missing every single shot.

So to answer your question, I'd assume I'd miss over 90% of my shots at that range, assuming an actual combat scenario. I only trained to withdraw and cover my exit. In comparison, BJ Baldwin-- that dude trains properly from the looks of things. I suspect he'd do just fine in a combat situation.

BJ did get in a gunfight a few years ago. Him and his GF, (who is a competitive shooter), ended up shooting some baddies in an In and Out parking lot.

Shooting at an In-N-Out: BJ Baldwin Fights Back​

Time came to a screeching halt inside Baldwin’s mind the second he saw the gun.
“I started making all kinds of calculations of how to solve this problem as safely and quickly as possible,” Baldwin recounted. “It’s like five minutes of analytical thinking happened in a second and a half.”
“I realize I’m already behind the eight ball,” he continued. “I’m already at a tremendous disadvantage. He’s got his gun out, it’s pointed at Tori, Tori’s about 15 yards from him, and he’s walking really, really fast. He’s going to be to her in about two or three seconds.”
Making matters worse, Baldwin knew Nonaka was unarmed. In their rush to leave the house and make it to the restaurant before it closed, she didn’t put her handgun back on. On the other hand, Baldwin was forced to assume that the second man approaching them didn’t leave his gun at home.
“He had his hand in his hoodie pocket the whole time while this went down,” Baldwin said.
As the lead man turned to Baldwin and uttered the only words anyone would exchange in the entire incident — “What’s good?” — a grim thought flashed through Baldwin’s mind: If this man only wanted to steal money or the car, he certainly wasn’t acting like it.
“Usually, when people rob people, they ask for something,” Baldwin said. “They’ll ask for the keys to the car, they ask for money, they ask for something. He didn’t ask for anything, so I had no reason to believe anything else other than the fact that he wanted to put a bullet in her [Nonaka’s] head just to see the expression on my face. And then put a bullet in my f—ing head.”
When the gunman turned back toward Nonaka a second later, Baldwin seized the counter-ambush opportunity he was waiting for.

Training for Defensive Gun Use​

There’s an old adage in the defensive pistol training world that says you will default to your lowest level of training when faced with a real-life self-defense scenario. This is a short way of saying that every element of your shooting technique that isn’t instinctual — deeply ingrained through thousands of repetitions — will suffer when you’re confronted with the type of high-stakes, life-in-the-balance stress that no drill or simulation could possibly replicate.
When those seemingly small hitches and snags start adding up under duress, they can throw you way out of your routine. And when you factor in the body’s natural reactions to immense danger — tunnel vision, auditory exclusion, loss of fine motor skills, slowed reaction times, diminished depth perception, time distortion and more — skills that seemed more than proficient on the range can suddenly fall woefully short in real life.
There are dozens upon dozens of examples of this phenomenon playing out within military, police and concealed carry communities, including many cases with tragic consequences for the good guys.
Baldwin’s self-defense situation is not one of these.

Seeking Cover​

When he reached for the custom-modified Glock 19 holstered at his appendix, the draw was as smooth and fast as the thousands upon thousands of times he’d drawn the same pistol while training on the range or running through habitual dry-fire exercises at his home.
As Baldwin raised the 9mm pistol and found the attacker in the sights, he was already instinctively darting for the cover of a trash can approximately 2 yards to his left — moving off the X — as he had done time after time in his training.
“In my mind, when this happened, this trash can covered me all the way up to my chest and it was 4 feet around,” Baldwin recalled.
In reality, the domed receptacle was barely big enough to cover his pelvic girdle and femoral arteries, but it was the best cover available at a moment’s notice and certainly far better than nothing at all.
Baldwin squeezed the trigger for the first time when his attacker was at approximately 15 yards — a distance Baldwin “owns” from an almost fanatical dedication to long-distance training.
“For the average person, that’s a long f—ing way away. For me, it’s not,” Baldwin said. “So, if you look at it this way, I was a lot closer to him than he was to me.”

The Shooting Starts​

Baldwin’s first shot left his Glock at almost the exact same moment the gunman fired his first shot at Nonaka. Baldwin believes his shot landed in the attacker’s center mass. The attacker’s shot missed. With bullets now being exchanged, the man behind the gunman wasted no time in turning and running away as fast as he could.
The attacker, now running to his right and angling away from the vehicle, fired a second round at Nonaka — another miss — as she broke for the cover of a nearby stucco pillar. While Baldwin continued delivering rounds to the gunman’s center mass, the still-running attacker turned his attention toward the source of the growing number of shots he was absorbing and fired six additional times at Baldwin.
“He missed every single time,” Baldwin relayed, “and I suspect it’s because he was getting hit the whole time.”
Baldwin shot 10 times before the attacker finally collapsed. He fired an additional three rounds over the attacker before he was able to process that the threat had been stopped.
“In all honesty, I thought I would be firing three or four rounds and the party would be over, he would be done,” Baldwin said, “but he was incredibly tough. Incredibly tough.”

‘Disaster Management’​

The autopsy reports have not been released at the time of publication, but Baldwin believes all of his first 10 shots connected, with most of them landing in the attacker’s center mass. He estimates — based on drills he’s run in the weeks following the attack — that the entire exchange of gunfire lasted just four seconds. In this incredibly fast and dynamic incident, Baldwin experienced none of the performance-sapping side effects he expected to have to overcome in what is the only self-defense shooting in which he’s ever been involved.
“It’s very, very strange for me because I performed without fear, without adrenaline, without excitement and with exceptional speed and accuracy, as if I had been practicing this particular drill for a half hour on the range,” Baldwin said. “It’s really, really weird.”
It’s perhaps a bit more understandable when you weigh in Baldwin’s extreme dedication to and proficiency in defensive pistol shooting and his vast experience in high-intensity, split-second decision-making as a professional off-road truck racer.
“If you’re going too fast into a corner in the desert and you’re going off the road, you’ve got to figure out what you’re going to hit that’s going to produce the least amount of negative impact on the vehicle that you’re racing,” Baldwin explained. “I call it disaster management.”
In those moments, a bush or a small tree is a lot safer bet for a crash than flying into a boulder or off of a cliff. Within fractions of a second, Baldwin has to make decisions that could easily impact his place in the race, the viability of his truck for the rest of the event or even his personal well-being. And he’s faced these situations thousands of times throughout his career.
“Maybe that helped me,” Baldwin reflected. “I don’t know.”

level of adrenaline was probably more than I’ve experienced. Luckily for me, I didn’t get it for 40 minutes, and it lasted for, I don’t know, four or five hours.”​

 

[Roc Doc]

Driving to Safety​

Baldwin held his sights on the attacker, who was now lying motionless on the concrete approximately 23 yards away from the trash can that Baldwin had used as cover moments earlier. Baldwin surveyed the scene. The other man was still running — now at least 75 yards away. Baldwin didn’t see any gun in his hands or any indication that he was an immediate threat.
Baldwin performed an administrative reload, ejecting his partially filled magazine, placing it in his pocket and replacing it with a full 23-round magazine. He kept his gun pointed in the direction of the two men.
Baldwin and Nonaka moved toward the Porsche but quickly noticed the rear driver’s side tire was flat. One of the attacker’s shots had hit it.
“It’s just a tire,” Baldwin told Nonaka. “Get back in the car. We’re driving on the flat.”
Baldwin was anxious to get to a safer place. Not only had the fleeing man now started yelling threats at the couple from the other side of the parking lot, but Baldwin still wasn’t sure why they were attacked in the first place. He began wondering if they were targeted specifically. And if they were, were there other people nearby who came with these two?
“I started the car, put it in drive and drove it 20 yards with my sights on the threat,” Baldwin said. “And then, looking forward where I was going, I reholstered my gun and made a right on the street.”

The Adrenaline Hits​

As he drove, Baldwin and Nonaka both checked for wet spots or pain and confirmed that they weren’t harmed in the attack. Nonaka dialed 911 while Baldwin accelerated down Tropicana Avenue. She began talking to the emergency dispatcher, but the flat tire was quickly becoming an issue.
“The tire had de-beaded from the rim and, because it was flat, it was moving and flapping around the rim, which was causing the car to not want to go straight,” Baldwin explained.
Baldwin told Nonaka to hang up in case they had to run from the vehicle on foot to escape the area. The tire quickly stabilized after she ended the call though, and Baldwin sped toward his home.
“I made sure nobody was following me,” he said. “I was driving 94 to 95 miles an hour up a desolate city street on a flat tire, trying to make sure I wasn’t being pursued by anybody.”
Baldwin pulled his car into the garage so no one driving by would be able to tell that he was back home. He ran inside and told his son’s mother and stepdad, who were staying at the house with his son, to go into his son’s bedroom and shelter there.
“Don’t answer the door. Don’t answer the phone unless it’s me,” Baldwin told the stepdad, who armed himself with a rifle and a pistol. “I’m trying to figure out why this happened or what happened. I’m going to go down to my dad’s house.”
Baldwin grabbed a rifle and a chest rig, threw them in another vehicle and drove with Nonaka to his father’s house, just down the road from his home. At that point, they contacted a lawyer, who called the police.
The adrenaline finally hit Baldwin.

“I’ve been on fire six times. I’ve almost killed myself 2,500 times racing. I did professional desert racing. That was just part of the game,” Baldwin said. “This

 

[Roc Doc]

You forgot the speedy 10mph wind!

It's fun to watch people try and figure out the wind at Cowtown, its a canyon that is shaped like a Z, so the wind were you are shooting from is usually at least 90* off from what it is at the target. You better be able to spot your misses if you want to figure it out.

 

[JK13]

There's probably 3 people, maybe Arse if its its a ranger/subaru, who can make that shot on this forum at a fixed steel target.

Golly, a whole 372 yards, maybe Mark Wahlberg could make that shot.

Yeah my thoughts too Roc, I would hope theres more than 3 of us on here
400 w/ irons isn’t that hard

If he had lamb kabob breath, i'd have decked him right in his lips with a left cross.

Woah! What do you have against lamb kabobs?! Lol

 

[Provience]

Interesting to see everyone's point of view on armed/unarmed. To each their own I guess. As far as brandishing in public goes, when I get in a dicey situation, I personally sweep back my oilskin duster to expose my six shooter on my hip, hover my hand above the notched pearl grips and hit 'em with my best Clint Eastwood squinty eyes stare. I've never had the situation escalate beyond that point -- except for that one traffic cop -- that didn't end too well.

I cannot wait to buy a Duster and daily carry my 22lr revolver

Can't say I've ever worried about printing, again it isn't most people's first though.

 

[Add]

Jesus christ, I'm about to HGTD this thread.

It was made for entertainment and was a funny story. Then I tried to be a nice guy and even posted tits n ass pics. But as soon as the word "gun" gets mentioned, people gotta pull their dicks out and make it a contest...

Shut the fuck up guys

 

[JD Mark]

Printing? 99.9% of the general public wouldn't have a clue that a "bulge" on someone is a gun.

Shit, my wife doesn't even realize I'm carrying at least 90% of the time. And I live with her. No high phallutin walk-in closets either.

 

[trampas]

Jesus christ, I'm about to HGTD this thread.

It was made for entertainment and was a funny story. Then I tried to be a nice guy and even posted tits n ass pics. But as soon as the word "gun" gets mentioned, people gotta pull their dicks out and make it a contest...

Shut the fuck up guys

Don't be a pussy...




























Let's see her nipples too

 

[Gbkeith]

Jesus christ, I'm about to HGTD this thread.

It was made for entertainment and was a funny story. Then I tried to be a nice guy and even posted tits n ass pics. But as soon as the word "gun" gets mentioned, people gotta pull their dicks out and make it a contest...

Shut the fuck up guys

Hang on. This thread got too long and I skipped a lot. I may have missed some pictures. Can you start a new thread for them?

 

[subybaja]

Jesus christ, I'm about to HGTD this thread.

It was made for entertainment and was a funny story. Then I tried to be a nice guy and even posted tits n ass pics. But as soon as the word "gun" gets mentioned, people gotta pull their dicks out and make it a contest...

Shut the fuck up guys

You've got a point about us being dicks. Thanks for a fun story, and I'm glad it wasn't a problem.

That said, your happy-go-lucky attitude is...unusual. The life choices you've made, the area you live in, whatever adds up to a faith in humanity around you... I'm not sure if I'm jealous or derisive. Maybe both.

 

[Add]

Don't be a pussy...




























Let's see her nipples too

I've literally sent you like 10 nudes of my wife like 2 years ago

 

[ANGRYBLACK]

Out of all the posts in this thread, Who the fuck here of all the billy bad asses have had more than one bullet come your way outside of military action??????

What i get is that ADD is selling a truck for 7500 that has a failing head gasket. 2 Middle eastern men come up to him and make him into a eahira. Try to chew him down and he gets upset because he should be the king of fuckers in this deal to sell the truck. Put the guys number up in hopes that everyone would act like a 12 year old of the infant days of the old place.

Somebody asked him did he have a gun. Then the gun talk nut draggers took it off the launch pad.

Somewhere in here he posted pics like an upstanding member of the board.

 

[M92PV4U]

Out of all the posts in this thread, Who the fuck here of all the billy bad asses have had more than one bullet come your way outside of military action??????

Accidental discharge count? Once. People pointing guns at me? Once, stupid fucker had a unloaded gun trying to scare me .

 

[ANGRYBLACK]

Accidental discharge count? Once. People pointing guns at me? Once, stupid fucker had a unloaded gun trying to scare me .

No, I mean, when the person has not only total disregard for your life. Actually they want to take it. That is a unique situation and most fortunately have not had the pleasure but those many will often speak to it like they know what will happen.

 

[subybaja]

Who the fuck here of all the billy bad asses have had more than one bullet come your way

Zero, but more than one drunk/thug has decided they didn't want one coming theirs. Deterrence isn't what weapons are for, but it works out that way sometimes.

Being actually under fire is also not the only reason to be armed.

 

[Mikenike]

Ehh don't care if you have a gun add. But thanks for the pics of your wife's tits and ass.