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Homemade Attachments for Forklifts Skidsteers and Other Equipment

AlxJ64 said:
Loader Pin Material.... drilled for grease applications.

I picked up a EARLY version of a Bobcat 331. Its in the first 2k units produced while still under Melroe. Runs like a champ, has some hydraulic issues that are easy to fix for the most part, but the pins are bad... like throwing a hot dog down the hallway.

I've got access to someone who can Line Bore it (supposedly) and can make my own bushings on the lathe and can rebore the rod eyes that the bushings were worn out so far that the rod eye is now being beat up... all of that can be done in my little shop.

But... as for the pins. I've got an old farmer friend barking in my ear that I absolutely have to use hardened ground pins otherwise I'll shear one off or bend one and then never get it back out without drilling the ends out with a mag drill or something up to the shear plane.

I've got another friend saying that since I'll be upsizing the pin diameter in the re-pin process that I can probably get away with just machining 1144, especially since it needs to be bored and cross drilled for grease application.

Experience and thoughts? Sources for nominal size ground pins? Etc?

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ThePanzerFuhrer should know better than most anyone else on here, I know I have seen a lot of older equipment with grade 5 bolts in place of pins...

Aaron Z
 
I've used 1144, seemed to work
have also used 1045 TGP and it worked too
wouldn't shy away from using 4140HT if the steelyard would fucking stock the shit in useful sizes
 
I’m in the it needs to be hard if you plan on it lasting any longer than a couple hundred hours. Bushings need to be hard also.

If this is a fix it and sell it thing then who cares. If it’s yours I would spend a little time and do it right.

What size pin you need? I have a gayload full hardened pins and bushings I could dig through for you.
 
arse_sidewards said:
Axle shafts from work and a ghetto heat treat setup using motor oil also from work?
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they tend toward smaller diameters than works for the pins I do
the induction hardening also makes it a little harder to hold a diameter while you're turning them, because of all the steps/taper on axle shafts you've got different surface hardness all along the length

They work, just not convenient.
 
rockota said:
I've purchased pins from skid steer solutions before, with decent luck, for my previous 773...
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They appear to have a mix of various size pins from other machines. There may be enough dimensional cross-over to make it work. The thing is that I need to upsize in a few places, or make bushings for my bushings where this thing has been neglected so much.

aczlan said:
ThePanzerFuhrer should know better than most anyone else on here, I know I have seen a lot of older equipment with grade 5 bolts in place of pins...

Aaron Z
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Someone has done that already at the Boom to Arm hinge... and part of the threads are inside the hinge... which is part of whey the arm has such a sideways slop to it.

clodhopper said:
How are you planning to use it? Daily use for a business (critical) ? Handy piece to have around the property used once and a while (non-critical) ?
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Its just a toy. It's going to get used for building some ATV tracks and trails, digging up some random stumps, a little bit of logging work, - just evenings and weekends. It'll get 100 hours a year maybe? Also will be lubricated more meticulously than it probably ever has in its existence. I taught the GF to run the cordless grease gun and she walks around making "lube" jokes and greasing every fitting she sees, even when a machine hasn't even moved.

[486] said:
I've used 1144, seemed to work
have also used 1045 TGP and it worked too
wouldn't shy away from using 4140HT if the steelyard would fucking stock the shit in useful sizes
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I'm leaning towards some 1144. Might pick up a piece to try working with at first to see if I can get anything drilled and threaded on it without it work hardening on me and killing my grease fitting tap. I'll order a gun tap in 1/4-28 and drill oversize per reading on the machining tricks on the stuff.

ThePanzerFuhrer said:
I’m in the it needs to be hard if you plan on it lasting any longer than a couple hundred hours. Bushings need to be hard also.

If this is a fix it and sell it thing then who cares. If it’s yours I would spend a little time and do it right.

What size pin you need? I have a gayload full hardened pins and bushings I could dig through for you.
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I've found a source for universal spring shell bushings. Might give a run at those where I can. I haven't dug into sizes and all of that yet but will certainly reach out to you once I land on a methodology. I'll have the machine for a little while, until I decide I want something that has better aux functions and a little more lift power. A 435 is what I was really after for what I'll be using it for, but can't justify $30k for a used machine as a weekend toy.
 
aczlan said:
That makes for a mess, to be done properly the threads cannot be in a wear area.

Aaron Z
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Yea, I can only imagine the wallowed and gouged mess I'm going to find inside of the left side flange of the boom where those threads are just rocking back and forth. Hopefully the grade 5 gets eaten as much as the boom. I'm planning on over-boring that spot and welding in hinge points. Hopefully the arm itself isn't also chewed to death.
 
AlxJ64 said:
Yea, I can only imagine the wallowed and gouged mess I'm going to find inside of the left side flange of the boom where those threads are just rocking back and forth. Hopefully the grade 5 gets eaten as much as the boom. I'm planning on over-boring that spot and welding in hinge points. Hopefully the arm itself isn't also chewed to death.
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dumb question....
wasn't this a low-hour machine? Any idea why the pins were/are so worn?
 
Borrowed neighbors 3-pt land leveler last weekend to do a few driveways. He has a quick-tach plate, so we figured might as well try it.
Worked well, but going backwards sucks...
So ordered up another plate and we're going to modify the leveler to work in both directions. "forward" on the tractor, and "backward" for the CTL. No idea who the company made any money on the plate - $188 and free shipping for 1/2" material...

 
rockota said:
Borrowed neighbors 3-pt land leveler last weekend to do a few driveways. He has a quick-tach plate, so we figured might as well try it.
Worked well, but going backwards sucks...
So ordered up another plate and we're going to modify the leveler to work in both directions. "forward" on the tractor, and "backward" for the CTL. No idea who the company made any money on the plate - $188 and free shipping for 1/2" material...

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That’s cheaper than I can buy the steel for. 1/2 plate 4x8 was 900-1000 last time I checked :homer:

I should order 4 of them.
 
ThePanzerFuhrer said:
That’s cheaper than I can buy the steel for. 1/2 plate 4x8 was 900-1000 last time I checked :homer:

I should order 4 of them.
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fuuuuuuck

I didn't wanna buy a pair of plates this month. But if the prices are only the way they are because the existing stock is based on last quarter's steel prices I might have to.
 
rockota said:
dumb question....
wasn't this a low-hour machine? Any idea why the pins were/are so worn?
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Not dumb, very realistic question... first response being it was sold at an auction so lord only knows the real story but this is what I have pieced together.

Its very weird. The control surfaces, many of the fittings, decals, paint, and other features about the machine look original and in good condition. No real over-spray from repainting it, no signs of over painting of any gouges etc. When I was picking it up, the old guy who owned the auction company even said "belonged to an old guy here in this small town, original owner and he barely used it; you can put that thing to work tomorrow, guaranteed!"

However, found the operators guide stuffed under the seat frame and it had some invoices in it for the original owner. The machine was owned by... of all people, the old man who owned the auction company who sold it who said it was owned by some old guy in town. He also owns a local paving company and runs the equipment auction out of that same building but uses a lot a little ways down to hold the event. The bucket had asphalt in it, and the track frame has asphalt on it. Only thing I can figure is it was used for cleanup work or driveway work or something and they just beat the snot out of it for the few hundred hours it has on it.

ThePanzerFuhrer said:
This small equipment is hard on pins and bushings. Everything is tiny. Coupled that with people who don’t do the best greasing and they wear out pretty quick.
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Yep, and based on the rusty dust mixed into the grease someone freshly put in it, and the hard grease in several of the zerks, this thing barely saw any grease on the moving parts.

The slew on it seems weak too, for what it should be in my experience running similar machines. I've read that the 3 way valve that controls the slew on these, along with some other functions, is notorious for the shim stack in the relief to get just the slightest bit of crud in it and then stick and it drops the relief way down or even sticks it open. There's some lash in the slew but its not horrible. The slew motor is a gearotor attached to a planetary and they are notoriously tough on these machines based on reading and other sources.

Again, it was pretty cheap all things considered in today's machine market so its not out of the realm to invest a little time and $ into getting it right. I don't NEED it for anything so its just a project toy thing.
 
AlxJ64 said:
I'm leaning towards some 1144. Might pick up a piece to try working with at first to see if I can get anything drilled and threaded on it without it work hardening on me and killing my grease fitting tap. I'll order a gun tap in 1/4-28 and drill oversize per reading on the machining tricks on the stuff.
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I've never had 1144 work harden while cutting but I don't do this shit every day, just every couple months or so.
You reading the book wrong? iirc it is specifically a cold-drawn steel that doesn't heat-treat so that might be where you're reading stuff about it being work-hardened

Even 4340 isn't that hard to work with, stainless is where it gets infuriating.
 
oh and if you go with something like 1045 you might be able to get it induction hardened to dick-hard for relatively cheap because it already has an assload of carbon in it so all it needs is a wave through the coils if you aren't overly picky
8620? for proper carburizing, call your local heat treater and see what they recommend, they'll have the experience needed, also ask what their minimum order is because it might be reasonable like $50 or horrible like $200
 
[486] said:
I've never had 1144 work harden while cutting but I don't do this shit every day, just every couple months or so.
You reading the book wrong? iirc it is specifically a cold-drawn steel that doesn't heat-treat so that might be where you're reading stuff about it being work-hardened

Even 4340 isn't that hard to work with, stainless is where it gets infuriating.
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I've got a few old machining books that I inherited from my grandfather and when looking into tips for machining stressproof carbon steels there was a comment about dwelling on a cut, or cutting out of plane (smearing a chip) that indicates a thermal exchange can shallow harden 1144 to where it is then hard to start another shallow cut and you end up undersizing the next pass or creating more heat trying to break through the work hardened surface to make a shallow pass. Seems like if everything is sharp and you're cutting and not galling your way along its not an issue. I've got the books in my shop at home and can dig back through them to make sure I was understanding it correctly. There are also a few threads on the PM forum talking about similar issues with work hardening.

[486] said:
oh and if you go with something like 1045 you might be able to get it induction hardened to dick-hard for relatively cheap because it already has an assload of carbon in it so all it needs is a wave through the coils if you aren't overly picky
8620? for proper carburizing, call your local heat treater and see what they recommend, they'll have the experience needed, also ask what their minimum order is because it might be reasonable like $50 or horrible like $200
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8620 has been my go to for making tooling and shafts in the pass. Made a few custom input spline adapters to make a divorced Dana 300 and had those treated and I also made some hot rivet hammer dies and sent them off for carburizing and they seem to be holding up well for the few hundred hot rivets I've driven with them. The guy that did it for me had a real legit knife making company and had a heat treat oven that he did jobs for Norfolk Southern, CSX, and the freight terminals, etc. Unfortunately he sold all that to pay for a divorce and is now a pipe welder somewhere in the Dakotas.

Either way, sounds like all of the above are reasonable options, depending on how I want to handle the post hardening after machining. The 8620 is nice because it doesn't seem to change size nearly as much as some of the other steels.
 
I should have the old timer shoot those pins with his xrf gun to see what steel they are. Everything in that Gaylord is so dam hard. It sounds like glass breaking when your tossing them around.
 
AlxJ64 said:
I've got a few old machining books that I inherited from my grandfather and when looking into tips for machining stressproof carbon steels there was a comment about dwelling on a cut, or cutting out of plane (smearing a chip) that indicates a thermal exchange can shallow harden 1144 to where it is then hard to start another shallow cut and you end up undersizing the next pass or creating more heat trying to break through the work hardened surface to make a shallow pass. Seems like if everything is sharp and you're cutting and not galling your way along its not an issue. I've got the books in my shop at home and can dig back through them to make sure I was understanding it correctly. There are also a few threads on the PM forum talking about similar issues with work hardening.
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that's real interesting

kinda like how real old american 1018 will cut great no matter what you do, almost like 12l14
newer shitty scrap-melter-minimill production A36 or 1018 does just what you describe, where if you take too small a pass it'll rub/cut at random, giving you that stupid "ringed at random" surface finish
 
arse_sidewards said:
fuuuuuuck

I didn't wanna buy a pair of plates this month. But if the prices are only the way they are because the existing stock is based on last quarter's steel prices I might have to.
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121# according to the shipping label. All 1/2” face and sides. 3/8” top lip.

Not sure how they are making money on this. Shipped from Alabama.
 

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rockota said:
121# according to the shipping label. All 1/2” face and sides. 3/8” top lip.

Not sure how they are making money on this.
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Get the hookup and buy drops from a shipyard? IDK

I bought a 1/4 for my bucket and a 1/2 for my fork carriage (because lord knows that one is gonna see some real, real stupid stuff).
 
I went with 1/4" on my fork carriage simply because my little tractor can't pick up enough to break that.


arse_sidewards said:
I bought a 1/4 for my bucket and a 1/2 for my fork carriage (because lord knows that one is gonna see some real, real stupid stuff).
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I'm curious to see how the Hough does with forks. The manual lists it as a 2500lb payload, but almost 7k in breakout. I'm guessing it'll lift quite a bit more but probably not very high and probably not handle very well overloaded.
 
rockota said:
Borrowed neighbors 3-pt land leveler last weekend to do a few driveways. He has a quick-tach plate, so we figured might as well try it.
Worked well, but going backwards sucks...
So ordered up another plate and we're going to modify the leveler to work in both directions. "forward" on the tractor, and "backward" for the CTL. No idea who the company made any money on the plate - $188 and free shipping for 1/2" material...

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Thanks, arrived in 3 days via a very angry UPS driver. He weighed about the same as the plate at 120lbs. I took it off the truck for him :beer:
 
bgaidan said:
I went with 1/4" on my fork carriage simply because my little tractor can't pick up enough to break that.




I'm curious to see how the Hough does with forks. The manual lists it as a 2500lb payload, but almost 7k in breakout. I'm guessing it'll lift quite a bit more but probably not very high and probably not handle very well overloaded.
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When chaining objects to the bucket it will tip at just under 2500 so I figure about that with forks. Breakout is nowhere near 7k. Geometry just isn't right for that.
 
arse_sidewards said:
When chaining objects to the bucket it will tip at just under 2500 so I figure about that with forks. Breakout is nowhere near 7k. Geometry just isn't right for that.
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I think breakout is a factor of both geometry and performance. If you take two machines identical in every way, except one has more power/flow than that one will "breakout" more than the other one.

My NH tips over at 5000 lbs but breakout is 7500. Obviously if inertia wasn't a factor, then breakout could never be greater than tipover.

In other words, your clapped out shit had more breakout before it got clapped out, but 7k does sound a lot.
 
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Muckin_Slusher said:
I think breakout is a factor of both geometry and performance. If you take two machines identical in every way, except one has more power/flow than that one will "breakout" more than the other one.

My NH tips over at 5000 lbs but breakout is 7500. Obviously if inertia wasn't a factor, then breakout could never be greater than tipover.

In other words, your clapped out shit had more breakout before it got clapped out, but 7k does sound a lot.
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With the current bucket situation and the fact that I have zero dirt work to do (and not enough traction to bury a bucket if I did) I'm pretty much never curling with the bucket down low. We'll see how it does once I get forks on it.
 
arse_sidewards said:
When chaining objects to the bucket it will tip at just under 2500 so I figure about that with forks. Breakout is nowhere near 7k. Geometry just isn't right for that.
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Muckin_Slusher said:
I think breakout is a factor of both geometry and performance. If you take two machines identical in every way, except one has more power/flow than that one will "breakout" more than the other one.

My NH tips over at 5000 lbs but breakout is 7500. Obviously if inertia wasn't a factor, then breakout could never be greater than tipover.

In other words, your clapped out shit had more breakout before it got clapped out, but 7k does sound a lot.
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That's just what the manual says. I'm wondering if they rely a bit on the pivot of the bucket being on the ground. You get stability from that and the leverage at the cutting edge.

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arse_sidewards said:
With the current bucket situation and the fact that I have zero dirt work to do (and not enough traction to bury a bucket if I did) I'm pretty much never curling with the bucket down low. We'll see how it does once I get forks on it.
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I don't think these things were ever intended for ground engagement. They were for scooping bulk material out of bins and hoppers.
 
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