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help me buy a shitbox tractor

clodhopper said:
Possibly. But is Case cost due to rarity? The Deere parts are more simply due to being green. I have no grudge against deere, they have done a very good job of building brand value. I simply choose not to pay the upcharge they have built into the market for their products. Many others do, which is why the premium carries into the used market as well. Case certainly doesnt carry any premium due to brand reverence.
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Part of that is paying for convenience with Deere. You can walk into a decent dealer and by parts for most any 50-60 year old tractor right off the shelf. I think I've only had one thing they couldn't get because Deere didn't make it anymore. You do pay a premium but that convenience is worth a lot when you run old junk and have to fix something Saturday morning before you can work on whatever project with the machine.

I've never owned a ford so I can't say whether the same applies at a New holland dealer. I've got a neighbor that collects old internationals and restores them. The local Case/International dealer rarely stocks anything but can usually order common-ish parts but the price seems in line with similar Deere parts.

I'll also note that my local dealer will generally sell parts at a better price than online which shocked the hell out of me when i figured it out.
 
gbiddlec said:
Part of that is paying for convenience with Deere. You can walk into a decent dealer and by parts for most any 50-60 year old tractor right off the shelf. I think I've only had one thing they couldn't get because Deere didn't make it anymore. You do pay a premium but that convenience is worth a lot when you run old junk and have to fix something Saturday morning before you can work on whatever project with the machine.

I've never owned a ford so I can't say whether the same applies at a New holland dealer. I've got a neighbor that collects old internationals and restores them. The local Case/International dealer rarely stocks anything but can usually order common-ish parts but the price seems in line with similar Deere parts.

I'll also note that my local dealer will generally sell parts at a better price than online which shocked the hell out of me when i figured it out.
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Maybe in your area. Deere around here sucks. They may have parts for something less than 20 or 25 years old at best. AND, you would think a replacement part was dipped in gold. I had to source some equipment pins, needed 2, they had 1 and wanted almost $200 for a piece of straight hardened steel that happened to be turned down to a non-standard size. The dealers here make repairs or service super difficult on old stuff, or simply refuse, in order to drive the market to buy new and keep upgrading. At the same time, the green mystique keeps people coming back, all the while bitchin profusely about "how much tractors are these days".

That aside, my preference is older stuff because parts are nearly the same despite brand (blue, green, red, ochre, whatever) and anything you need on a saturday morning will be at Tractor Supply or cheap enough to keep a spare on the shelf.
 
gbiddlec said:
Part of that is paying for convenience with Deere. You can walk into a decent dealer and by parts for most any 50-60 year old tractor right off the shelf. I think I've only had one thing they couldn't get because Deere didn't make it anymore. You do pay a premium but that convenience is worth a lot when you run old junk and have to fix something Saturday morning before you can work on whatever project with the machine.

I've never owned a ford so I can't say whether the same applies at a New holland dealer. I've got a neighbor that collects old internationals and restores them. The local Case/International dealer rarely stocks anything but can usually order common-ish parts but the price seems in line with similar Deere parts.

I'll also note that my local dealer will generally sell parts at a better price than online which shocked the hell out of me when i figured it out.
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BTW a 50yo Deere is a 4030 which is outside OP's price range. 60yo Deere is 20-30-4010, which they fall in OP's price range but many dealers don't stock that much for 10/20 series, and what they do is available at a good NAPA or TSC.

That being said, I'm not bashing JD. I've been asked by people getting into farming, if you had no brand loyalty and wanted to just run one brand (price being only one consideration) what would you run? My answer if you have limited mechanical ability is Deere. In the midwest you can't hardly go 25 miles in any direction and not run into a dealer, and the dealers are typically multi-location. If they have their shit together about any common part they can have in about 18hrs or less. Now, I'm referring to 1000+ acres row crop and/or 200+ cows. I'd also recommend 40-55 series equipment for the beginner, still dirt-common and good parts availability, no electronics that matter, and easily serviced at home if/when necessary. This is the most bang-for buck if you are starting out and need a full line of equipment (multiple tractors and implements of that size). Budget for equipment to start an operation like that would be 150k minimum, so this is really for arguments sake and doesn't pertain to OP.
 
clodhopper said:
Maybe in your area. Deere around here sucks. They may have parts for something less than 20 or 25 years old at best. AND, you would think a replacement part was dipped in gold. I had to source some equipment pins, needed 2, they had 1 and wanted almost $200 for a piece of straight hardened steel that happened to be turned down to a non-standard size. The dealers here make repairs or service super difficult on old stuff, or simply refuse, in order to drive the market to buy new and keep upgrading. At the same time, the green mystique keeps people coming back, all the while bitchin profusely about "how much tractors are these days".

That aside, my preference is older stuff because parts are nearly the same despite brand (blue, green, red, ochre, whatever) and anything you need on a saturday morning will be at Tractor Supply or cheap enough to keep a spare on the shelf.
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Yeah, I've never had them do any service. The nice things is they're a conglomerate with around a dozen dealerships, so if they don't have it there they can run one over from another dealer. Always done it myself or go to an independent shop (all older stuff so no computers to worry about) so I can't speak to the work they do or cost. I'm with you 100% on older stuff being the way to go though. Our local TSC sucks for parts. They don't carry much, and what they do carry is almost always not in stock.
 
IowaOffRoad said:
BTW a 50yo Deere is a 4030 which is outside OP's price range. 60yo Deere is 20-30-4010, which they fall in OP's price range but many dealers don't stock that much for 10/20 series, and what they do is available at a good NAPA or TSC.

That being said, I'm not bashing JD. I've been asked by people getting into farming, if you had no brand loyalty and wanted to just run one brand (price being only one consideration) what would you run? My answer if you have limited mechanical ability is Deere. In the midwest you can't hardly go 25 miles in any direction and not run into a dealer, and the dealers are typically multi-location. If they have their shit together about any common part they can have in about 18hrs or less. Now, I'm referring to 1000+ acres row crop and/or 200+ cows. I'd also recommend 40-55 series equipment for the beginner, still dirt-common and good parts availability, no electronics that matter, and easily serviced at home if/when necessary. This is the most bang-for buck if you are starting out and need a full line of equipment (multiple tractors and implements of that size). Budget for equipment to start an operation like that would be 150k minimum, so this is really for arguments sake and doesn't pertain to OP.
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I can really only speak from experience on 20 series stuff. Still see a lot of them running around on farms and they're becoming desirable to the old guys that want collector/parade tractors. I have had good luck on parts availability dealer wise in my area but probably because they're still in common use.
 
the guy with the Case just told me it sold, so the search continues. Still planning to look at the Ford 4000 Saturday
 
lagunaMS said:
Still planning to look at the Ford 4000 Saturday
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Keep an open mind on that motor. I am guessing it is a 3 cylinder, so it is going to sound strange. But if it starts easy and runs consistent, then consider how the rest of it shapes up. You can easily get full complete rebuild kits, with a pretty large range of overbore options, for the motor if there is a problem in the future. If it happens to be an early 4000, then it will have a 4 cyl motor and it is even better.
 
clodhopper said:
Keep an open mind on that motor. I am guessing it is a 3 cylinder, so it is going to sound strange. But if it starts easy and runs consistent, then consider how the rest of it shapes up. You can easily get full complete rebuild kits, with a pretty large range of overbore options, for the motor if there is a problem in the future. If it happens to be an early 4000, then it will have a 4 cyl motor and it is even better.
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thanks, not sure what year it is but maybe yall can tell from the pics. it looks good and the lady said she's owned it 35 years and has only used it to cut 3 acres a few times a year and plant a garden. is this big enough for what i'm wanting to do?

$4500 is what she's asking
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From the pics alone, I'd offer $4000 and see what happens.
 
lagunaMS said:
thanks, not sure what year it is but maybe yall can tell from the pics. it looks good and the lady said she's owned it 35 years and has only used it to cut 3 acres a few times a year and plant a garden. is this big enough for what i'm wanting to do?

$4500 is what she's asking
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aczlan said:
Based on Tractordata's pictures that nose makes it a 1968-1975 (the final iteration)
The serial will tell an exact year: TractorData.com Ford 4000 tractor information
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Aaron Z
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There's actually a break between 68-75, the grill on the tractor OP posted is a 68-71. What will show you down to the day of final assembly is the tag underneath the clamshell hood. With the front axle it's not and SU (score! same front axle as the 5000 and more than capable of handling a proper sized loader in the future). It also appears to be an Euro-spec tractor as it has 6 bolt rear wheels (US-spec tractor had 8x8 bolt pattern wheels) and the headlights in the grill (though that lower grill is homemade, with no holes in the side of the nose I'd say they were factory in the lower grill but someone busted the original and didn't want to find a new one). I wouldn't worry about it being a Euro tractor, there were some buyers at the dealership dad worked at back in the day that wanted the headlights in the grill so you didn't have to move the headlights when installing a loader but didn't want the square-top fenders (which weren't always available every year or for every model) with the headlights there. As stated previously, all the parts that will matter are the same as the US-spec tractors.
aczlan said:
Based on the pictures, it looks like no rear remotes, would need a rear remote kit such as: Ford 2000 3000 4000 Tractor Rear Hydraulic Dual Remote Valve Kit | eBay to get rear hydraulic remotes.
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Aaron Z
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Agreed, but I would say in the south there are more of these in the salvage yards and you may be able to pick up the entire original equipment stuff for 1/2 to 1/3 the price of the new aftermarket stuff.

OP that tractor is worth about 5-5500 here. If you can get it for 4000 I'd just buy aczlan's linked remote setup. You'll still be into it for what's probably market value or a little under

ETA: even though it's euro-spec, it may have been sold new here. Dad said towards the end of the model year if they had sold more than they planned in the US that they would sometimes fill the dealer orders with euro-spec tractors. Just in case you would be afraid of a more recent import.
 
I will vouch for the 3 cyl diesel fords. Reliable as a hammer and parts r common as the same basic engine was used forever.
 
lagunaMS said:
thanks, not sure what year it is but maybe yall can tell from the pics. it looks good and the lady said she's owned it 35 years and has only used it to cut 3 acres a few times a year and plant a garden. is this big enough for what i'm wanting to do?

$4500 is what she's asking
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That thing will be reliable as water falling downhill, but that's a pretty bare bones tractor for the money. No remote for a brush hog lift or post driver or any other fucking thing no FEL or front hydro ports, no belly pan, no sun shade. There has been better deals shown in the thread IMHO.
 
gbiddlec said:
Yes, but once you have it, you'll find remotes super handy. Hydraulic toplink, log splitter, hydro actuated box blades etc.
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Debateable. No for the small gamer, which the OP would classify based on discussion here. I have auxs on my 5000 and never once hooked to them. The 4000 I used to have used the aux to run the bucket. For the OP, maybe a log splitter, but really might be cheaper to pick up a non-tractor mounted version if the tractor doesnt already have aux connections. I dont have trees, so splitter is real low on my want list. Hydro toplink is like AC seats in the truck. Nice, not necessary and pricey. Usually big tractor type item anyway. Any other hydro implement is more than likely way to big to be useful for OP. For occasional dragging the drive to keep washboard under control, a manual link isnt that big a deal.

And for clarification for non-tractor people, that hydro kit is to run something not already a part of the tractor or off tractor hydraulics. The tractor's 3-point system is run on hydraulics built in around the rear axle, under the seat. A gin pole hoist off the back (using the 3 point) will not need aux's, well unless you just have to add a bunch of complexity to a simple gin pole. I cant think of any other implement the OP would likely want, other than a front bucket, that would need aux hydraulics.
 
junkytj said:
That thing will be reliable as water falling downhill, but that's a pretty bare bones tractor for the money. No remote for a brush hog lift or post driver or any other fucking thing no FEL or front hydro ports, no belly pan, no sun shade. There has been better deals shown in the thread IMHO.
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Sun shade. I got ripped up on a forum somewhere about stuff on top of a backhoe roof (all my work lights are on the top of my equipment) cause it all gets ripped off by trees. I dont have trees, so I didnt think about that. In this case, if OP has trees on the property, have no top at all might be a plus as nothing to get hung in a tree and the trees provide better shade than some ROPS top.

What remote do you need for a brush hog? Only ones I am familiar with are hung on the 3 point and run by the PTO.
 
lagunaMS said:
thanks, not sure what year it is but maybe yall can tell from the pics. it looks good and the lady said she's owned it 35 years and has only used it to cut 3 acres a few times a year and plant a garden. is this big enough for what i'm wanting to do?

$4500 is what she's asking
ford1.jpg

ford2.jpg

ford3.jpg

ford4.jpg
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That looks to be about the size and style of a Massey Ferguson 135. Great size tractor, and when I grew up on a farm we used it almost exclusively for anything else besides actually planting or plowing many rows at a time. Like someone else said too, it should be about as reliable as water flowing downhill. Our 135 actually caught fire once and burned pretty darn good. Put a few new wires on it, new seat, and kept using it 15 more years or so lol.
 
Drummer79 said:
That looks to be about the size and style of a Massey Ferguson 135. Great size tractor, and when I grew up on a farm we used it almost exclusively for anything else besides actually planting or plowing many rows at a time. Like someone else said too, it should be about as reliable as water flowing downhill. Our 135 actually caught fire once and burned pretty darn good. Put a few new wires on it, new seat, and kept using it 15 more years or so lol.
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That thing has almost 20 hp and 2k lbs on a 135. :laughing:
 
Pretty sure my Ford has the same 3 cylinder diesel. Running a glass pack stack It's not loud and sounds fine, but the drone.. I have to wear ear plugs, I can't stand the drone it makes.
 
ANGELO said:
Pretty sure my Ford has the same 3 cylinder diesel. Running a glass pack stack It's not loud and sounds fine, but the drone.. I have to wear ear plugs, I can't stand the drone it makes.
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Ya the 3cyl Ford (and many 3cyl tractor engines) need a quality muffler or they can drive you batty. Some people are more susceptible than others but the resonance of the exhaust can be bad.
 
ANGELO said:
Pretty sure my Ford has the same 3 cylinder diesel. Running a glass pack stack It's not loud and sounds fine, but the drone.. I have to wear ear plugs, I can't stand the drone it makes.
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internal volume is important in mufflers

Bigass resonator will quiet even a straight pipe right down
 
Are you guys actually using a loader bucket on something like the 4000?

My father in law had one, and it was about useless. Even just the wieght of the loader would make the front end sink really easy. Then if you had any wieght you lost all traction for going up hill, or even worse coming downhill. I don't think he had any wieght in the back at all, so I'm sure that would help, but not like you can do much actually moving dirt.
 
YotaAtieToo said:
Are you guys actually using a loader bucket on something like the 4000?

My father in law had one, and it was about useless. Even just the wieght of the loader would make the front end sink really easy. Then if you had any wieght you lost all traction for going up hill, or even worse coming downhill. I don't think he had any wieght in the back at all, so I'm sure that would help, but not like you can do much actually moving dirt.
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My experience is close to yours. Tough to steer with empty bucket, armstrong it to steer with a full bucket. Plenty strong, could pick up heavy with relative ease, but hope you are driving straight to where you plan to drop it. I was hooking up the 3pt to whatever I had on hand that was heavy to help offset the bucket weight. I traded it off for a reason. I did drop off the bucket for a bit (had a bad main and worn piston to swap out and needed lap valve seats) and without the bucket it was a pretty nice machine.

A 4000 is bigger than the 2N/8N/9N size tractor, like another half bigger, but certainly not in the "big tractor" category. No tractor was designed to run a loader, they all kinda suck. But when the only thing you have is a tractor......
 
YotaAtieToo said:
Are you guys actually using a loader bucket on something like the 4000?

My father in law had one, and it was about useless. Even just the wieght of the loader would make the front end sink really easy. Then if you had any wieght you lost all traction for going up hill, or even worse coming downhill. I don't think he had any wieght in the back at all, so I'm sure that would help, but not like you can do much actually moving dirt.
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clodhopper said:
My experience is close to yours. Tough to steer with empty bucket, armstrong it to steer with a full bucket. Plenty strong, could pick up heavy with relative ease, but hope you are driving straight to where you plan to drop it. I was hooking up the 3pt to whatever I had on hand that was heavy to help offset the bucket weight. I traded it off for a reason. I did drop off the bucket for a bit (had a bad main and worn piston to swap out and needed lap valve seats) and without the bucket it was a pretty nice machine.

A 4000 is bigger than the 2N/8N/9N size tractor, like another half bigger, but certainly not in the "big tractor" category. No tractor was designed to run a loader, they all kinda suck. But when the only thing you have is a tractor......
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Steering on a 4000 depends on they front axle style. This one has the "5000" style which helps, as long as the PS is in good working order and the pins were greased once in a while.
Agreed that ballast is needed, probably around 3000#. With wheel weights and fluid that's doable. If you don't need to run a blade and a loader a weight box on the 3 point can be a good way to gain traction. For loose soil dirt work and hauling around rock it will be fine, but it's no skid steer or dozer.
 
I think the 4000 is slightly bigger then mine. The loader is almost the only reason I use mine. Between the brush clearing and lifting stuff. But even if I'm using the 3 point stuff, it's never bothered me being there. I do have power steering though.
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