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Guy answers door in Arizona - shot dead by cops in 5 seconds. Oh he's white...

Are you that low on intellect?

He's had a domestic situation at his door before, and someone could be playing ding dong digit, or it could be a miffed spouse come to cause trouble.

I'm sorry that you live in a world where you are afraid to answer your own front door, but nobody cares about that.

What we are about is the fact that you are saying everyone else should live that way.

Also, you selling out a gun owner is a problem. You are the problem.

I said nothing of the kind so piss off with that bullshit. I expressly said open your door however you like, more than once. I don't care how you open your door or what you have in your hand. You are the one with the ad hominem attacks and you'll get a like response from me. That you don't like my opinion on this particular situation means zero to me.
 
Ain't a scared pussy bitch, just ask my husband. Yep. Sounds like a prick cop and I never said they don't exist.

And here lies a part of the problem. Equality has worked out just fucking rosey hasn't it. We allowed too much non-reason into things.
Maybe it's time we start this conversation along with how non whites and masks matter so fucking much.

I'm tired of waking up guilty for being a working middle aged white man.
 
And here lies a part of the problem. Equality has worked out just fucking rosey hasn't it. We allowed too much non-reason into things.
Maybe it's time we start this conversation along with how non whites and masks matter so fucking much.

I'm tired of waking up guilty for being a working middle aged white man.

Aw you'll have to come up with something better than that caveman. That kind of shit doesn't offend me. I'm glad you are hard working and don't care what color you are.
 
Interesting situation.

It really highlights a lot of issues with how LEO are trained and then how they therefore behave.

When they finally find the place, they seem to be so frustrated with dispatch, the caller, trying to locate the residence, etc, that they then don't stop to consider how they're going to handle the next step. Or, this is exactly how they're trained to do it, in which case their training absolutely is going to create issues and escalate the situation. The first officer knocks on the door loudly, or at least what I think would have been herd very loudly from inside the apartment, and then I think rather halfheartedly shouts "Phoenix Police". It's hard to judge for sure based on audio levels, but given where the microphones are and that he was shouting at what sounds like a fairly sturdy door, I'm guessing the victim would have little likelihood of hearing that clearly, or maybe even much more than a muffled grunt. The shooter took up a position that would almost certainly prevent him from being seen via the peephole in the door, and would have left him largely concealed from somebody standing in the doorway until they step forward (since the door opens inwards). This position does make some sense, but had he been a little farther out from the wall he might have been identifiable. The other officer moved back and away from the door, again so that a view from a peephole would either obscure him or at least make it very hard to identify who he was. The next move was to turn on the 1000000W brodozer spotlight and shine it directly into the victims eyes, which means again no chance of telling immediately that these guys are actually uniformed officers. The timing of turning the light on is also of note, since he did not have it on until the door was opened enough to shine it in the victim's face/eyes, I would think if he just wanted the light on for the purpose of having light he would already have it on before then, instead he was intending for it to blind the victim. I believe that if the victim he had realized these guys were cops when he opened the door, he would not have stepped out, and likely this situation could have been easily deescalated. As is obvious from the video taken by the shooter, the victim didn't even know he was there until he was being shot (if then even). He also was complying as soon as he realized what they were (or at least that the one with the handheld laser was a LEO), and it was while he was complying (getting down and spreading his hands) that the shooter drew, and then proceeded to fire.

Their actions from then on out are another matter. Which again, is pointing at a lot of training issues, or maybe even an issue of how they operate.

This is very simply the result of a shift in allowance of LE to escalate situations that they create.

There is no articulable threat to the LEOs. Every person has the right to answer their own door with a gun in their hand. The problem with LE these days is that it has become commonplace to adjust what is considered reasonable to "they get to go home tonight."

This is no different than a regular citizen knocking on the door and then shooting the dude that answers. It would be murder then and it's murder when a LEO does it. There is nothing reasonable about shooting someone just because they have a gun in their hand. This is the definition of shoot first ask questions later.
 
Well, if fucking sucks is justification for going around and murdering people, what's stopping you?

Dude. Chill. I responded to your prick comment with a like comment. Why would I want to murder people? I have a fucking opinion on answering a fucking door to cops with a gun in my hand. I wouldn't do it because I think it is ill-advised. Jesus H Christ you'd think I shot him myself.

He probably was a victim of a whole host of problems including his own. I can agree with that.
 
Dude. Chill. I responded to your prick comment with a like comment. Why would I want to murder people? I have a fucking opinion on answering a fucking door to cops with a gun in my hand. I wouldn't do it because I think it is ill-advised. Jesus H Christ you'd think I shot him myself.

He probably was a victim of a whole host of problems including his own. I can agree with that.

You said "What I do know is being LE fucking sucks a lot of the time" as justification for murder in this situation. You have made it very clear that you "fucking suck", so I ask again, because you fucking suck, why are you not going around murdering people?
 
Headline "Guy with gun answers his own door and when he complies with LEO he gets shot in the back while kneeling to the ground"
 
I don't answer the door ever , if you come un-announced you can fuck right off , I don't answer the phone if I don't know who it is , you leave no message you can fuck right off too.

But I'm basically a misanthrope so it is what it is.:flipoff2:
 
I'm not ignorant because I wouldn't open the door in the middle of the night without asking who was there first. If he asked, he would know who was there because the fucking cops would have answered him.

Would they have?

I'm not sure. Reasonably they would, but we can't know now because that scenario did not play out. They may have simply told him to "Open the fucking door" or something like that. After all they were treating it like they were responding to a domestic disturbance even though they felt it probably was just a BS call, or at least that's how I interpreted their actions.

Ultimately the victim was not legally in the wrong, at least of my understanding of law in that region. He has no duty to ask, there was a knock on the door and he is well within his right to answer it with a legally owned sidearm in hand.
 
You said "What I do know is being LE fucking sucks a lot of the time" as justification for murder in this situation. You have made it very clear that you "fucking suck", so I ask again, because you fucking suck, why are you not going around murdering people?

I made no such justification. Is your reading comprehension faulty? :grinpimp:
 
Would they have?

I'm not sure. Reasonably they would, but we can't know now because that scenario did not play out. They may have simply told him to "Open the fucking door" or something like that. After all they were treating it like they were responding to a domestic disturbance even though they felt it probably was just a BS call, or at least that's how I interpreted their actions.

Ultimately the victim was not legally in the wrong, at least of my understanding of law in that region. He has no duty to ask, there was a knock on the door and he is well within his right to answer it with a legally owned sidearm in hand.

I see no reason why they wouldn't answer him when they've already announced themselves more than once. I don't immediately see cops as the enemy though. My opinion isn't about what's legal, but more about what's prudent in order to be alive the next day. I do place more value on that than being able to open my door with a pistol in my hand. I have it if I need it but you don't need to see it.
 
I see no reason why they wouldn't answer him when they've already announced themselves more than once. I don't immediately see cops as the enemy though. My opinion isn't about what's legal, but more about what's prudent in order to be alive the next day. I do place more value on that than being able to open my door with a pistol in my hand. I have it if I need it but you don't need to see it.

You watching the video more than once does not equate to them announcing themselves more than once.
 
You're right. Only once.

And if you read my other post, I made a case for it being unlikely that the victim would have heard it. Through a heavy door, not spoken/shouted that loud, and he might not have even been facing the door when he said it as he was repositioning/backing away to the left of the door implying the possibility his head was turned some to look where he was going.
 
And if you read my other post, I made a case for it being unlikely that the victim would have heard it. Through a heavy door, not spoken/shouted that loud, and he might not have even been facing the door when he said it as he was repositioning/backing away to the left of the door implying the possibility his head was turned some to look where he was going.

I read your other post. And it is possible. But it is the middle of the night and why would the cops shout like they're making a drug bust, especially in an apartment complex? It seemed like a normal voice to me. Look, I'm not justifying anything but making an observation just like every other person here.
 
I wont open a door for a cop until they tell me why they are there. If they have a warrant then regardless the door is getting opened by them. I have talked to a cop through a window before. He was pissed as hell we wouldn’t let him in. His CO?, sergeant, came about 10 minutes later and introduced himself by talking through the window to me. Asked me my take on whats going on. I told him apparently about 2 hours ago we had a noise complaint from the neighbor about the same time they asked us to be quiet and we got quiet right away out of respect for the neighbor. He asked why I would not let his officer in and I asked what the officer hoped to accomplish by coming in to a house that was obviously not loud when he showed up. He didnt have an answer. I asked if he had any other questions, he said not at the moment but he would contact me if he did and I gave him my phone number. I told him to have a safe night, he said thanks and left with barney fife.

He wasn't thrilled but knew he was not getting into the house without cause and went on his way. Never heard another thing.

And yes, if someone is banging on my door at O-dark thirty I have a gun in my hand and I aint opening it unless I feel comfortable.

to each their own.
 
I read your other post. And it is possible. But it is the middle of the night and why would the cops shout like they're making a drug bust, especially in an apartment complex? It seemed like a normal voice to me. Look, I'm not justifying anything but making an observation just like every other person here.

 
I read your other post. And it is possible. But it is the middle of the night and why would the cops shout like they're making a drug bust, especially in an apartment complex? It seemed like a normal voice to me. Look, I'm not justifying anything but making an observation just like every other person here.

The problem is it seems you're victim blaming. Everything he did was within his legal right, at least as far as I know, but he wound up dead. Now, should he have done things differently? Well, for his sake I guess he should have, but by no means does that detract from it being wrong that he was killed. I personally think he likely had a (false, in this case) sense of security from the sidearm, and while he had not heard what was shouted he simply didn't care because he did not feel he would have any trouble facing it.

We don't blame a woman who was raped for wearing a short skirt, and we shouldn't blame somebody who was killed by the cops for having been armed when it was legal to do so.
 
The problem is it seems you're victim blaming. Everything he did was within his legal right, at least as far as I know, but he wound up dead. Now, should he have done things differently? Well, for his sake I guess he should have, but by no means does that detract from it being wrong that he was killed. I personally think he likely had a (false, in this case) sense of security from the sidearm, and while he had not heard what was shouted he simply didn't care because he did not feel he would have any trouble facing it.

We don't blame a woman who was raped for wearing a short skirt, and we shouldn't blame somebody who was killed by the cops for having been armed when it was legal to do so.

I might be just a tiny bit and plenty of men blame women for how they look. I concede we shouldn't do either. I also think we shouldn't put ourselves in bad situations unnecessarily.
 
The problem is it seems you're victim blaming. Everything he did was within his legal right, at least as far as I know, but he wound up dead. Now, should he have done things differently? Well, for his sake I guess he should have, but by no means does that detract from it being wrong that he was killed. I personally think he likely had a (false, in this case) sense of security from the sidearm, and while he had not heard what was shouted he simply didn't care because he did not feel he would have any trouble facing it.

We don't blame a woman who was raped for wearing a short skirt, and we shouldn't blame somebody who was killed by the cops for having been armed when it was legal to do so.

I think you sum it up nicely. Good mom’s and dad’s will typically tell their daughters to avoid the short skirt if they don’t want to attract the wrong attention. He/she did nothing wrong other than attract the wrong attention. Both a rapist and cop should be held responsible, but use the common sense God gave you.
 
Fucked up deal for sure, I have always been instructed when you draw and show you have already made the decision to pull the trigger, pointing a handgun like a tatted up badass will get you shot.

If someone knocks on my door in the middle of the night, you can bet ill have my gun drawn. There are too many people out there impersonating officers. The guy was protecting his home and his loved ones. The cops fucked up on this
 
If someone knocks on my door in the middle of the night, you can bet ill have my gun drawn. There are too many people out there impersonating officers. The guy was protecting his home and his loved ones. The cops fucked up on this

I know people in real life who dressed up as cops, drove to somebodies drug house and "raided it", tied up occupants and confiscated drugs and cash.

they didn't survive the drive down the hill, but that is besides the point.


As for national news, the candians just had a serial killer going around dressed as RCMP a couple months ago
 
I know people in real life who dressed up as cops, drove to somebodies drug house and "raided it", tied up occupants and confiscated drugs and cash.

they didn't survive the drive down the hill, but that is besides the point.


As for national news, the candians just had a serial killer going around dressed as RCMP a couple months ago

Bunch of pot growers in NorCal did that shit too, multiple times.

Those 'peaceful hippies' are some crimey motherfuckers.
 
Bunch of pot growers in NorCal did that shit too, multiple times.

Those 'peaceful hippies' are some crimey motherfuckers.

if you are talking about ones just over a decade ago, that is probably the same guys I'm talking about :laughing:

long story short, just because somebody knocks and says "police" is not a valid enough reason on it's own to belive them
 
if you are talking about ones just over a decade ago, that is probably the same guys I'm talking about :laughing:

long story short, just because somebody knocks and says "police" is not a valid enough reason on it's own to belive them

Yeah it was in a Prime documentary I watched last month.
 
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