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Guy answers door in Arizona - shot dead by cops in 5 seconds. Oh he's white...

evernoob said:
Yeah it was in a Prime documentary I watched last month.
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well hell, do you know what it was called? i'll look it up on prime.

if it was the "murder mountain" then that is about a different group. which just further highlights how common and effective impersonation is
 
Provience said:
well hell, do you know what it was called? i'll look it up on prime.

if it was the "murder mountain" then that is about a different group. which just further highlights how common and effective impersonation is
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Yes I think it was Murder Mountain.
 
Provience said:
As for national news, the candians just had a serial killer going around dressed as RCMP a couple months ago
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And this is absolutely a concern for me. I've long said that unmarked cars should not be doing traffic control. Traffic control is not high risk, there is zero fucking justification for using a blacked out car (or minivan, or pickup, or whatever) with a hidden lightbar to do it, other than they will generate 10-15% more revenue off the speeders who are looking for police cars (there is no increase in safety here). Now we've had a scenario where what was likely an RCMP informant (more on this if anyone wants to hear it) goes off the deep end and uses everything available to him to impersonate RCMP/Peace Officers because he knows the majority of people will comply and thus be sitting ducks.

I don't want to pull over for a police car unless it's a lit public area with witnesses. Unfortunately doing so (or refusing to pull over in the middle of nowhere) will likely result in far more problems.
 
Poriggity said:
If someone knocks on my door in the middle of the night, you can bet ill have my gun drawn. There are too many people out there impersonating officers. The guy was protecting his home and his loved ones. The cops fucked up on this
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Some of those apartments had steel screen doors.
If you live in an apartment your "property line" is the doors threshold, beyond that is common area owned by the apartment complex.
Steel screen doors won't stop a thief or a bad cop. They may give pause long enough for some level headed decision making.
 
Poriggity said:
If someone knocks on my door in the middle of the night, you can bet ill have my gun drawn. There are too many people out there impersonating officers. The guy was protecting his home and his loved ones. The cops fucked up on this
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I have never given any thought to that..But no one has ever knocked on my door in the middle of the night. A clown after midnight might be the worst..
 
idahojeep said:
I made no such justification. Is your reading comprehension faulty? :grinpimp:
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So, you just made the comment in this thread just to say something that had nothing to do with the subject matter being discussed? I think not. You made that comment to misdirect the blame to the victim
 
Nah nothing so nefarious because I don't have an ulterior motive. Just someone with an opinion like every other asshole on the internet You can like it or not. Makes no nevermind to me.
 
idahojeep said:
Nah nothing so nefarious because I don't have an ulterior motive. Just someone with an opinion like every other asshole on the internet You can like it or not. Makes no nevermind to me.
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So you just made a random statement that's your opinion on the matter but what you said wasn't your opinion because it makes you no nevermind but you were justifying a dumbfuck opinion with a random statement while making no nevermind to you.

Just a dumbass, got it
 
Paragon said:
So you just made a random statement that's your opinion on the matter but what you said wasn't your opinion because it makes you no nevermind but you were justifying a dumbfuck opinion with a random statement while making no nevermind to you.

Just a dumbass, got it
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And men say women are emotional. I don't even know what that word salad means. Why are you so twisted up by a difference of opinion about the dude making a choice I wouldn't have made? I admit the cop was maybe too fast on the trigger but that will probably get worked out in court. If you need to keep namecalling I guess that's your thing.
 
idahojeep said:
Why are you so twisted up by a difference of opinion about the dude making a choice I wouldn't have made? I admit the cop was maybe too fast on the trigger but that will probably get worked out in court. QUOTE]Because right, wrong, or indifferent we need to be united in the rights of our citizens.

Words written on old paper don’t mean shit if they are not backed up with the action of the people.

That shit was made to protect us from the government, now it seems we want the protection of the government.
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Scott Cee aka 2drx4 said:
I've long said that unmarked cars should not be doing traffic control. Traffic control is not high risk, there is zero fucking justification for using a blacked out car (or minivan, or pickup, or whatever) with a hidden lightbar to do it, other than they will generate 10-15% more revenue off the speeders who are looking for police cars (there is no increase in safety here). as.
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This is so true. Years ago in PA, there was a law that you didn't have to stop for an unmarked car. The cops were required to call a marked unit to pull you over. Not sure if that is still in effect.



On answering a door with gun drawn. Often when I'm at home, I don't carry a gun. So if somebody comes to the door, I can't have my gun holstered. (I dont have the holster on)

Somewhere in reading the account, I believe the gf said they had someone knock on their door a few nights back and no one was there. That could explain the sudden exit with gun. It could be he never heard the cop, opened the door and didn't see anyone. Figured it was kids or assholes and ran out to catch them. It could be that the left was the more likely direction of a runner. Once the cop said "hands", he figured it out, but the cop gave him no time to do anything.

It might only be me, but I don't see anything wrong with someone answering the door "gun in hand" , but I do see something wrong with a cop knocking on a door with a gun drawn. I don't mind if he has his hand on it like they approach a car, but a gun should not be drawn in public unless there is probable cause.
 
WaterH said:
Somewhere in reading the account, I believe the gf said they had someone knock on their door a few nights back and no one was there. That could explain the sudden exit with gun. It could be he never heard the cop, opened the door and didn't see anyone. Figured it was kids or assholes and ran out to catch them. It could be that the left was the more likely direction of a runner. Once the cop said "hands", he figured it out, but the cop gave him no time to do anything.
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"Nees tells officers that Whitaker had answered the door with a gun because a few days earlier Whitaker heard a knock on his door in the middle of the night, according to the video footage. When he peeked through the peephole, she says in the video, he noticed that whoever knocked was gone.

She tells Ferragamo that in another instance, a woman who used to live in the complex had knocked at Whitaker's door asking for help because she had gotten into a fight with her partner, the video footage shows."

He had a Ding Dong Digit and a DV situation recently.
 
Mr Stubs said:
idahojeep said:
Why are you so twisted up by a difference of opinion about the dude making a choice I wouldn't have made? I admit the cop was maybe too fast on the trigger but that will probably get worked out in court. QUOTE]Because right, wrong, or indifferent we need to be united in the rights of our citizens.

Words written on old paper don’t mean shit if they are not backed up with the action of the people.

That shit was made to protect us from the government, now it seems we want the protection of the government.
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I fully back your right to do as you please within the law and no piece of paper changes that. What you need to understand is I don't have to agree with how you do it, nor do you have to agree with me. But you have no right to tell me how to respond to a situation or that I must back you because of words on a piece of paper. If you think you do then you are an authoritarian like any other. 2A supporters aren't some monolithic hive mind marching to the same drum. I seem to remember plenty of comments about the NFAC BLM idiots in a recent thread. They're supposedly 2A supporters but quite the dumbasses when it comes to weapons. Dumbass gun owners have negligent discharges every day. This dude should probably not have been shot but I wasn't there so I don't know what actually happened other than the video. And neither does anyone else here. I already said the whole thing sucks. If people can't handle a difference of opinion without freaking out then this place is no better than any other bullshit social media shit show except you can say fuck and :flipoff2:. Carry on.
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idahojeep said:
Mr Stubs said:
I fully back your right to do as you please within the law and no piece of paper changes that. What you need to understand is I don't have to agree with how you do it, nor do you have to agree with me. But you have no right to tell me how to respond to a situation or that I must back you because of words on a piece of paper. If you think you do then you are an authoritarian like any other. 2A supporters aren't some monolithic hive mind marching to the same drum. I seem to remember plenty of comments about the NFAC BLM idiots in a recent thread. They're supposedly 2A supporters but quite the dumbasses when it comes to weapons. Dumbass gun owners have negligent discharges every day. This dude should probably not have been shot but I wasn't there so I don't know what actually happened other than the video. And neither does anyone else here. If people can't handle a difference of opinion without freaking out then this place is no better than any other bullshit social media shit show except you can say fuck and :flipoff2:. Carry on.
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Can you not see him complying once he realized it was the cops? Probably shouldn't have been shot? The 2nd argument aside...the guy "probably" shouldn't have been shot?

The difference here is if your "opinion" is fucking retarded...you will be told so and in fact, it is.

If you can't handle your retarded opinion being pointed out as being retared...maybe you should stick to Facebook.
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idahojeep said:
Mr Stubs said:
I fully back your right to do as you please within the law and no piece of paper changes that. What you need to understand is I don't have to agree with how you do it, nor do you have to agree with me. But you have no right to tell me how to respond to a situation or that I must back you because of words on a piece of paper. If you think you do then you are an authoritarian like any other. 2A supporters aren't some monolithic hive mind marching to the same drum. I seem to remember plenty of comments about the NFAC BLM idiots in a recent thread. They're supposedly 2A supporters but quite the dumbasses when it comes to weapons. Dumbass gun owners have negligent discharges every day. This dude should probably not have been shot but I wasn't there so I don't know what actually happened other than the video. And neither does anyone else here. If people can't handle a difference of opinion without freaking out then this place is no better than any other bullshit social media shit show except you can say fuck and :flipoff2:. Carry on.
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People can handle a difference of opinion, this is not a difference of opinion.

They are currently making it illegal to legally use your weapons (McCloskys, Texas Sniper) or executing you for legally using your weapons (Whitaker).

Slicing up different types of 2A supporters means that each group is MUCH smaller than the gun-grabber group. This has resulted in consistent losses for the 2A supporters.

The Left gun-grabbers win because they have:
  • Solidarity
  • Social Justice Warriors (sanction outside of the law, harassment, firing, etc)
  • Protected Radicals (Bill Ayers, Susan Rosenberg)
So the 2A Right needs the same elements, which you are directly arguing against. This is not 'Authoritarianism'. That old boomer mantra is dead now.

Not everyone lives in Idaho and if you hadn't noticed by all the relocation threads here, your State is about to change in the upcoming years, within 5. There is nothing you can do to stop it. Hiding in the mountains is not an option, and really hasn't been since Lon Horiuchi shot Vicki Weaver (you) in the face in 1992.

The message is finally starting to sink in, here and all over the internet, because the older 2A Righties have the internet, and see what's happening.

Nobody is sending Rightist Social Justice Warriors to fire you from your job because you don't support Whitaker or answering the door with a gun.
Nobody is bombing your city because you don't agree with us.

THAT is Authoritarianism, the type the Left uses to gain success in taking guns. They are suing the NRA, making sure it can't contribute this election season. They are making people afraid to LEGALLY use their firearms.

We are arguing for the easiest, least authoritarian element: Solidarity.

YOU don't have to answer the door with your gun. All that we're asking is for you to support people who do so LEGALLY.
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Thumping said:
idahojeep said:
Can you not see him complying once he realized it was the cops? Probably shouldn't have been shot? The 2nd argument aside...the guy "probably" shouldn't have been shot?

The difference here is if your "opinion" is fucking retarded...you will be told so and in fact, it is.

If you can't handle your retarded opinion being pointed out as being retared...maybe you should stick to Facebook.
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I'm not the one getting mental about an opinion.
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evernoob said:
idahojeep said:
People can handle a difference of opinion, this is not a difference of opinion.

They are currently making it illegal to legally use your weapons (McCloskys, Texas Sniper) or executing you for legally using your weapons (Whitaker).

Slicing up different types of 2A supporters means that each group is MUCH smaller than the gun-grabber group. This has resulted in consistent losses for the 2A supporters.

The Left gun-grabbers win because they have:
  • Solidarity
  • Social Justice Warriors (sanction outside of the law, harassment, firing, etc)
  • Protected Radicals (Bill Ayers, Susan Rosenberg)
So the 2A Right needs the same elements, which you are directly arguing against. This is not 'Authoritarianism'. That old boomer mantra is dead now.

Not everyone lives in Idaho and if you hadn't noticed by all the relocation threads here, your State is about to change in the upcoming years, within 5. There is nothing you can do to stop it. Hiding in the mountains is not an option, and really hasn't been since Lon Horiuchi shot Vicki Weaver (you) in the face in 1992.

The message is finally starting to sink in, here and all over the internet, because the older 2A Righties have the internet, and see what's happening.

Nobody is sending Rightist Social Justice Warriors to fire you from your job because you don't support Whitaker or answering the door with a gun.
Nobody is bombing your city because you don't agree with us.

THAT is Authoritarianism, the type the Left uses to gain success in taking guns. They are suing the NRA, making sure it can't contribute this election season. They are making people afraid to LEGALLY use their firearms.

We are arguing for the easiest, least authoritarian element: Solidarity.

YOU don't have to answer the door with your gun. All that we're asking is for you to support people who do so LEGALLY.
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Finally a good conversation. Thank you.

I am fully in support of the McCloskeys, don't know anything about the Texas Sniper. I agree with much of what you say. Much better way to deliver a message and I recognize complacency with regard to 2A. But I also believe in making smart decisions because of the shit world we may live in. That was my point in even commenting on this thread. Don't open the fucking door unless you know who is outside. I'm old and tired and seen too much death and destruction. I am not your enemy.
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evernoob said:
idahojeep said:
People can handle a difference of opinion, this is not a difference of opinion.



You don't have to answer the door with your gun. All that we're asking is for you to support people who do so LEGALLY.
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Absolutely my point, thank you Boob.

My comment earlier is meant in much broader terms than 2A. I’m speaking about the Bill of Rights and the Constitution.
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If the victim came out the back door and smoked two guys wearing black and pointing guns his door. Would he be convicted of Murder?
 
Why no aid? Even the military is required to aid the enemy.
 
krttrkllr said:
If the victim came out the back door and smoked two guys wearing black and pointing guns his door. Would he be convicted of Murder?
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This is my point. But actually it sounds like you are saying this is equivalent to what happened. It's not because they came to his door weapons drawn without probable cause. When someone comes to your house at night uninvited, you have probable cause to draw a weapon. Not to shoot, but to have weapon in hand. The cops were brandishing without probable cause. Remember, they didn't even know if they were at the right address or if the call was for real.
 
Maybe he didn't pay something they had going on and it was basically a hit... I wouldn't put it past them.
 
Scott Cee aka 2drx4 said:
Hadn't cleared the residence would be the justification. Also they had his wife/GF who needed to be restrained as the other justification.

TLDR, they will say they were busy with other things.

I imagine he was dead well before anyone else got there?
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You're a commie, your parents are probably rotc draft-dodgers.
 
Scott Cee aka 2drx4 said:
Hadn't cleared the residence would be the justification. Also they had his wife/GF who needed to be restrained as the other justification.
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Why would the residence need to be cleared? Why would the GF need to be restrained? They were investigating a noise complaint. They don't clear a residence for a noise complaint.

I suppose after you murder someone, it might be wise to control people that might retaliate. The only legal reason would be crime scene preservation. Of course, that would mean you need to make sure the suspects don't contaminate it. (The two cops would be the suspects)
 
krttrkllr said:
If the victim came out the back door and smoked two guys wearing black and pointing guns his door. Would he be convicted of Murder?
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Can't remember where offhand, but iirc two states now have laws that would protect you in this case. I want to say it was Indiana that passed a law first that made self defense shootings justifiable against police and I believe there's been a case involving one of the laws already that got upheld in a district court.
 
WaterH said:
Why would the residence need to be cleared? Why would the GF need to be restrained? They were investigating a noise complaint. They don't clear a residence for a noise complaint.

I suppose after you murder someone, it might be wise to control people that might retaliate. The only legal reason would be crime scene preservation. Of course, that would mean you need to make sure the suspects don't contaminate it. (The two cops would be the suspects)
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Expanding on that, why even knock in the first place? Police aren't required to respond. That has been upheld in two landmark SCOTUS cases. If they got there and there's no noise, why even continue the situation? There's a full minute of clear audio and there's no a sound coming out of that apartment. Cop had a shit attitude from the start bitching about not having time for the noise complaint, so why even go that far with it?
 
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