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Guy answers door in Arizona - shot dead by cops in 5 seconds. Oh he's white...

WaterH said:
Why would the residence need to be cleared? Why would the GF need to be restrained? They were investigating a noise complaint. They don't clear a residence for a noise complaint.

I suppose after you murder someone, it might be wise to control people that might retaliate. The only legal reason would be crime scene preservation. Of course, that would mean you need to make sure the suspects don't contaminate it. (The two cops would be the suspects)
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See prior response.

The only potential legal justification I could see is some jurisdictions require officers to enter a residence in the event a domestic dispute is reported. This was reported as a domestic dispute, not a noise complaint, although based on what we know about the caller's comments it sounds like he wanted to call in a noise complaint then switched to saying it was a domestic dispute in order to "get the police there faster."

That potential justification is also very weak at best, and I don't know if that law even exists there.
 
The call was Domestic Violence, they will come in to make sure there are no bodies bleeding out in the bathtub. They can also go in on a welfare check call. They can get an "E warrant" with a phone call.
Catch a Domestic Violence charge and the first thing a judge will do is ask you to turn in your firearms.
 
crisbee1 said:
The call was Domestic Violence, they will come in to make sure there are no bodies bleeding out in the bathtub. They can also go in on a welfare check call. They can get an "E warrant" with a phone call.
Catch a Domestic Violence charge and the first thing a judge will do is ask you to turn in your firearms.
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So guilty on a phone call huh?
 
Az Judges are not "elected." But they are on the ballot as to whether or not to retain them. The problem is that bad judge's rotations coincide with Presidential elections, so every Dick and Jane that only know who they want as President and haven't researched any of the other offices or items on the ballot just vote "Yes" to retain them because they erroneously believe that they have to fill out the entire ballot.

There's a judge that has gotten piss poor reviews and still managed to be retained with a 70-something "Yes" vote the last 3 times he's been on the ballot. The average judge gets a 98% "Yes" vote; so you can see about 30% of voters do their homework, the rest are just there to vote for a President. IMO, local elections would be better if they were not on the same day/month/year/whatever as Federal or even State elections (same thing happens during Gubernatorial elections), let the 30% that actually care enough to be informed make the decisions.
 
I bet some of yall would think the cops are justified if the guy they shot was black......:stirthepot:

Even IF he didn't hear them say they were cops (I dont think he did) then how did he hear them well enough to stop arguing with his lady, grab a gun, and get to the door pretty quick. After he opened the door he looked confrontational for a split second and then a OH FUCK look came over his face. I can't really justify the shooting, but the lack of rendering aid is hard to watch whether they followed protocol or not.
 
TatonkaII said:
I bet some of yall would think the cops are justified if the guy they shot was black......:stirthepot:

Even IF he didn't hear them say they were cops (I dont think he did) then how did he hear them well enough to stop arguing with his lady, grab a gun, and get to the door pretty quick. After he opened the door he looked confrontational for a split second and then a OH FUCK look came over his face. I can't really justify the shooting, but the lack of rendering aid is hard to watch whether they followed protocol or not.
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The video is pretty disgusting. The only thing that I find questionable is answering the door with the gun when they announced they were the police, although I believe it is entirely possible he didn't hear or understand what they said, and to him, it was a threatening knock on the door in the middle of the night. He had the gun at his side and not pointed at the officers and immediately got down and put his hands up when he saw they were police and they started yelling at him. The cops on the other hand had their guns drawn and pointed and shot him almost immediately, and let him bleed out. They killed someone over a god-damned noise complaint.

I hope both of those cops go to pound-you-in-the-ass prison :flipoff:
 
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'84 Bronco II said:
The only thing that I find questionable is answering the door with the gun when they announced they were the police, although I believe it is entirely possible he didn't hear or understand what they said, and to him, it was a threatening knock on the door in the middle of the night.
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I probably wouldn't think of it in the heat of the moment, but most things that would require a gun in the middle of the night wouldn't knock first.

Also not defending the cops, just filing this little thought away in the "things to do to avoid dying" part of my brain.
 
Harry Johnson said:
I probably wouldn't think of it in the heat of the moment, but most things that would require a gun in the middle of the night wouldn't knock first.
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It's not uncommon for criminals to knock first to make sure you're not ready to respond. Criminals would rather deal with people who just got woken up and has no situational awareness than deal with someone ready to meet them.
 
Cops were in the wrong here

Dude wasn’t so good in his tactics, 1) he opened the door, 2) walked right out into the hall.
 
Harry Johnson said:
I probably wouldn't think of it in the heat of the moment, but most things that would require a gun in the middle of the night wouldn't knock first.
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there you go, having a predetermined idea of how bad things are supposed to happen to justify something bad that did, indeed, happen.

home invaders knock on the door, quite often.
 
'84 Bronco II said:
The only thing that I find questionable is answering the door with the gun when they announced they were the police, although I believe it is entirely possible he didn't hear or understand what they said, and to him, it was a threatening knock on the door in the middle of the night.
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It doesn't matter that they said "Phoenix Police", it doesn't matter whether or not he heard them. ANYBODY can knock on a door in the dark of the night, yell out "Police Officer, Open Up!", ANYBODY! We (the Phoenix Area) have had cases of home invaders that did EXACTLY what the officers did in the video: Pound on the door "Phoenix Police" and then hide out of view of the Peephole. Unsuspecting home owner opens the door unarmed and gets assaulted by 4 guys. In at least one instance they were wearing "police like" uniforms. Now, knowing that, knowing there are criminals pounding on people's doors in the middle of the night claiming to be Police Officers, how else are we supposed to answer the door? Add to it the background of what had happened to this particular man in the last week, and it is 100% understandable that he came to the door armed and ready to kick someone's ass. What is NOT understandable is how Police Officer's with TRAINING on how to handle situations similar to this completely overreacted and shot an innocent man.
 
I'm just glad those 2 officers were able to make it home to their families that night. Even if they dead guy was innocent, they have a hard enough job dealing with the scum of society every day that simple mistakes can happen. Cops should always err on the side of caution and shoot someone if they think there is the slightest chance that the scumbag criminals might harm them. That one cop was just protecting is buddy, his partner. He couldn't tell and shot the perp because he was afraid his partner was going to get shot, eventually.
 
Paragon said:
see if you can let that sink in.
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thatsthejoke.jpg
 
Harry Johnson said:
Because I'm pretty sure none of us here have had to fight off a home invader, so I doubt anyone here really knows more than what they read on the internet.
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I have. So, now what?

You are dumb. You display your ignorance all too willingly. You devise your course of action based on what "probably" will or won't happen based on said ignorance. You succinctly implied that if someone knocks on your door in the middle of the night, a gun would not be needed. You are still a fucking idiot when it comes to you and your family's safety.
 
Harry Johnson said:
Because I'm pretty sure none of us here have had to fight off a home invader, so I doubt anyone here really knows more than what they read on the internet.
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Well the invaders never made it into my house because I always went out to see what was going on. I used to live at the end of the road that was the entrance to the river it was always something something crashed in the canal was stuck in the river or trying to steal something so when I heard people, cars or the yard dog barking I would grab a rifle with a flashlight and see wtf was going on.
 
Paragon said:
I have. So, now what?

You are dumb. You display your ignorance all too willingly. You devise your course of action based on what "probably" will or won't happen based on said ignorance. You succinctly implied that if someone knocks on your door in the middle of the night, a gun would not be needed. You are still a fucking idiot when it comes to you and your family's safety.
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You have? Tell your story so that ignorant people like me can learn.

I may be dumb, I have never claimed otherwise. Everyone bases their actions on what "probably" will or won't happen, and everyone has some level of ignorance until they find out otherwise.

If someone knocks on my door in the middle of the night, I'm going to check and see who it is before opening the door. With or without a gun. If I didn't see anyone there as in Ryan Whitaker's case, I wouldn't open the door and I would consider arming myself and staying in my house.

Also, I appreciate your concern for my family's safety. Can't say irate4x4 doesn't care
 
Arps said:
I couldnt imagine being forced to sit there and watch my wife die.
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That’s the main thing I thought watching it. Forced to keep her distance listening to him groaning as he died. That has to be extremely traumatic watching your loved one die like that... by the very people who swore an oath to protect and serve the public.
 
Harry Johnson said:
You have? Tell your story so that ignorant people like me can learn.

I may be dumb, I have never claimed otherwise. Everyone bases their actions on what "probably" will or won't happen, and everyone has some level of ignorance until they find out otherwise.

If someone knocks on my door in the middle of the night, I'm going to check and see who it is before opening the door. With or without a gun. If I didn't see anyone there as in Ryan Whitaker's case, I wouldn't open the door and I would consider arming myself and staying in my house.

Also, I appreciate your concern for my family's safety. Can't say irate4x4 doesn't care
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If you yelled out “who is it?” And they responded “police” but you can’t see them in the peep hole, then what? You open the door trustingly?
 
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