Donk
Piss Artist Formerly Known As OllieNZ
Gotta make sure the important news gets out
What was left of the Haas drivers cell
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Formula 1 2020
- Thread starter Dookey
- Start date
What was left of the Haas drivers cell
I'm not saying that those barriers are bad. Just they usually have a little more protection in certain spots.
It's not all the car. I bet Russel doesn't even get on the podium. As much as everyone wants to hate on Lewis it's him and the car. But he's proven time after time to be able to get more out of a car that anyone else. Yeah he's an asshole. But he's a fast tire and fuel saving asshole.
If covid is that scary :rolleyes: and Lewis has it he's gonna be in some serious shit for not putting a mask on at the end of the race.
westracing01
TBD
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I know Russell probably won't make the podium but I can hope...
I remember Helio hammering the Armco at Watkins Glen after getting turned head on into on the back straight running up to the bus stop... I was actually surprised the car didn't spear the wall and rip apart. Watkins learned from mistakes of the past though and that barrier is double reinforced with posts half as far apart running up to the second rail.
Regardless, I agree with Ollie up there. The angle of impact and angle of the barrier played more of a roll in the severity of the crash than anything else. Remember McNish in 2002 went through the barrier backwards at the 130R corner at Suzuka and that barrier was reinforced better than most guardrails. This isn't a new issue, it's just rare that a wreck that violent happens so it shocks more when it does.
I remember Helio hammering the Armco at Watkins Glen after getting turned head on into on the back straight running up to the bus stop... I was actually surprised the car didn't spear the wall and rip apart. Watkins learned from mistakes of the past though and that barrier is double reinforced with posts half as far apart running up to the second rail.
Regardless, I agree with Ollie up there. The angle of impact and angle of the barrier played more of a roll in the severity of the crash than anything else. Remember McNish in 2002 went through the barrier backwards at the 130R corner at Suzuka and that barrier was reinforced better than most guardrails. This isn't a new issue, it's just rare that a wreck that violent happens so it shocks more when it does.
budget76
Thread Killer
don't think Russell even has a points finish yet in the Williams, right? If so, it should be a nice weekend to see him in the points at least and end that pointless-starts streak he has going on.
XtremeJ
Wanker
Agree with most of your points, but ...........
the bike guys have been asking for Armco to be removed, or be covered with a tire wall (and more recently bolted tire stacks covered with conveyor sheeting) since just after they wanted the catch fencing (wooden poles and wire fence) removed. There were very few bike guys that were fans of Jackie Stewarts safety campaign - which undoubtedly saved drivers lives, but honestly killed more riders as a result.
I thought that all FIA rated tracks had to have tire barriers installed for MotoGP and WSBK, given the low cost I am surprised to still see "naked" armco anywhere. Most of the US tracks (IMSA and SRO) have made the effort to cover armco with tire walls and to prevent a car spearing through (like Sainz did to the tech pro barriers in Russia a few years ago) add a layer of conveyor belt on the track side.
I dealt with the FIA rated SRO rep at Las Vegas last year for the SRO finale, and honestly was a little surprised at some of their logic. We could not run on the oval (too dangerous, and Pirelli had concerns with loads on the tires), so instead ran on the apron, and the actual loads were higher than had we run on the oval itself. We removed a ton of the inside wall Jersey barriers to allow access to the infield, and they had no problem leaving the raw edge of the barriers exposed until I suggested otherwise. We had rented the track the weekend prior for a couple of all night tests, I had been asked to be "test director" by the teams participating, and the SRO fellow arrived early so he could monitor what we did to make the track safe. He then made a couple of additional suggestions for the actual race the following weekend. I can easily see how they allow armco, just somewhat surprised to see it exposed like it was. To be fair, where RoGro went off can hardly be considered a high chance impact area.
I have been one of the most vocal critics of the Halo. one of the reasons I don't watch F1 nearly as much as I used to - the cars are fat, heavy, overweight, over designed pigs, and the Halo looks like it was added as an afterthought. I will happily admit the Halo saved RoGro's life. Wonder how an Indycar with the "fighter" cockpit would have faired.
I think Hamilton was incredibly smart to foresee just how the hybrid engines would affect the teams, and his move to Mercedes was incredibly well timed. I would like to see how he could do in a lesser car against tougher drivers than Valery. Great news for Russell, but I think it will be very difficult to adapt from the Williams to the Mercedes, would be great if he spanks Bottas but I just don't see it.
Dookey
WINNAR
I hope Russell wins for no other reason than to prove Hambone ain't all that. 
Dookey
WINNAR
Ya know... thinking about it a little more. What easier circuit could Russell hope to debut the Merc with? I don't get the feeling this track is as technical as others.
I could go fast there. But to be fair this is the after the fuckening merc. The neutered gotz no turn that shit up give me quali mode I have gone to 11 and all the crew guys start to cry and bite their nails merc. It's just kinda fast merc. Or 2019 Ferrari. 
Weasel
Red Skull Member
Amazingly well
saw his video and said he's a believer of the halo now. I bet he is.
Dookey
WINNAR
Russell creeps me out.
Weasel
Red Skull Member
testing stuff for next year..
Dookey
WINNAR
Years ago the money was paid to the team based upon how many points they earn. That way they fight to the end.
Something makes me think they are now paid by their position in the constructors championship.
I would imagine they all show up because it looks really bad if you don't. Could you imagine having tickets to Abu Dhabi only to find out your team didn't show up?
I would also imagine the teams are contractually obligated to show. Both by FIA and their sponsors.
Something makes me think they are now paid by their position in the constructors championship.
I would imagine they all show up because it looks really bad if you don't. Could you imagine having tickets to Abu Dhabi only to find out your team didn't show up?
I would also imagine the teams are contractually obligated to show. Both by FIA and their sponsors.
Dookey
WINNAR
Checo deserves that.
Weasel
Red Skull Member
huh no Merc on the podium? So is it Hamilton or the car? Russel seemed to being doing very well until the flat.
Jes
URF Racing
Hambone sucks, it's the car.
westracing01
TBD
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Perez drove his ass off for that.
Bottas is a complete waste of a seat.
It's almost certainly the car.
However, Hamilton's actual greatness is in his race craft and knowing when to overrule the ninnies on the pit wall to preserve victory. I haven't seen a team fuck up a sure thing that bad in a long time.
Russell's pass on Bottas toward the end is enough proof for me that he has balls and determination Bottas just doesn't possess. I don't care how old those sneakers were on his car. Too many mistakes allowed Russell the chance and he swung for the fences. It's a shame we were robbed of a potential grandstand finish with Russell running down Perez but oh well.
If Merc were smart, they'd go get Russell for real, fire Bottas, and have the heir to the throne in place when Lewis quits after next year. Of course, 2022 with the new regs could fuck the whole works.
Bottas is a complete waste of a seat.
It's almost certainly the car.
However, Hamilton's actual greatness is in his race craft and knowing when to overrule the ninnies on the pit wall to preserve victory. I haven't seen a team fuck up a sure thing that bad in a long time.
Russell's pass on Bottas toward the end is enough proof for me that he has balls and determination Bottas just doesn't possess. I don't care how old those sneakers were on his car. Too many mistakes allowed Russell the chance and he swung for the fences. It's a shame we were robbed of a potential grandstand finish with Russell running down Perez but oh well.
If Merc were smart, they'd go get Russell for real, fire Bottas, and have the heir to the throne in place when Lewis quits after next year. Of course, 2022 with the new regs could fuck the whole works.
Right? The fact that he currently does not have a ride next year is obviously a waste of talent. I'd love to see him and Max together at RB. It's just awesome that he got a win finally.
westracing01
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Absolutely. Albon is useless. Max and Sergio would be a formidable duo against whatever Mercedes decides to do.
budget76
Thread Killer
Perez literally going last to first was an amazing drive. Albon in 6th shows he just doesn't have it in that car, or under that pressure, or whatever it is. I don't dislike the guy (though he whined something again this race) but really think Perez slots in way better based on his performance this year.
The Merc is good, but Russel is no slouch. A botched pitstop (what a mess in that pit, felt horrible for Bottas) and a safety car taking away his ~30 second lead to 3rd place, and had he not gotten that flat there's a good chance he still reels in Perez for 1st. Hell of a drive from
Last race had the emotions all at once during the crash. This one, talk about up and down excitement and WTF thoughts
The Merc is good, but Russel is no slouch. A botched pitstop (what a mess in that pit, felt horrible for Bottas) and a safety car taking away his ~30 second lead to 3rd place, and had he not gotten that flat there's a good chance he still reels in Perez for 1st. Hell of a drive from
Last race had the emotions all at once during the crash. This one, talk about up and down excitement and WTF thoughts
Roc Doc
2A SNBI
That and he can drive better than just about anyone I can think of on worn tires. Seen it several times this season.
westracing01
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Absolutely agree. Again, I don't think he's the GOAT by any stretch, but he is very, very good on old worn out tires.
Roc Doc
2A SNBI
He's up there, but Senna is still my #1. I think if you look at the old guys, Fangio, Clark, maybe even Stewart, it was MUCH more about the car...not that it didn't take real skill and effort to control them, but an Alfa, a Maserati, and a Ferrari from that era were all very different machines. F1 now is so regulated it's almost IROC, but the little differences add up to getting a hole shot and keeping it, like Russell did yesterday.
XtremeJ
Wanker
I'll agree on Senna, though blokes older than me would say Clark, or Fangio. I'd put Schuey #2
I will disagree on the cars though, since the mid 2000's we have had utter dominance most seasons by a single team,
Ferrari during the Schuey/Brawn/ Byrne era, Brawn during a single season when they found the double diffuser loophole, Redbull in the Vettel/ Newey era, and more recently utter dominance by AMG/Mercedes in the modern hybrids.
The fact a kid like Russell, albeit excellent driver, can hop in the 44 without testing and beat the rest of the field easily shows just how good a car the Merc is. About the only thing in common among the winners in the late 60's and 70's was the Cosworth engines, which allowed multiple teams to win every season. Well until Lotus came along, but even then there were many more teams represented in the top 3 than we see today. The years of McLaren dominance in the late 80's and early to mid 90's was due to Senna and Prost as much as it was the cars, and most of that was due to Ron Dennis's ability to attract funding, not just from partners like Mansour, but also companies like TAG, and later Marlboro.
Put Hamilton in a Redbull, or Verstappen in a Merc, and I think we see very different results. Remember Hamilton, like Mikey S gets final say over his team mate. Hamilton will never put himself in a situation where he has an equal driver as team mate.
F1 and IROC could not be more different, that is a weird comparison. To the layperson the F1 machines may look similar, sure, but only to the uneducated eye. If you do not have a Mercedes drivetrain you are a second off the pace. Heck the two year old Mercedes painted pink under the guise of Racing Point is sticking it to Redbull most weekends, and watch McLaren next year when they get their hands on the same drivetrain.
At least in the Cosworth era, or until the second generation turbo cars, most teams could at least hope for the podium. Now you have to hope that the Mercedes powered teams have an issue or you are screwed.
Have to feel for Russell, poor kid. Good for Perez, he sure has had bad luck along the way, so nice for a win before he fades into obscurity. He would never have been in F1 all this time without his Carlos Slim peso's. First time we have seen the Mexican flag on top of the podium since the Rodriguez brothers I think?
I think a lot of people that watch racing have no idea the amount of data an F1 car give to the team every race. After pit crewing for a POS stock frame car setup means A TON. Putting the power down, not tearing up tires and keeping the balance is super key when you are going as fast as they are and so close to the edge.
Roc Doc
2A SNBI
Well we're splitting hairs, and the one team dominance is obvious and un-refutable, but it's everything, driver, car, strategy, testing and of course innovation. DAS was the big one this year that nobody else had, and along with more power than the other teams allowed MB to do some things other teams couldn't. My IROC comment was mostly about lights out, when unless you spin the tires or are late, the front runners end up in pretty much their starting positions at turn 1, yeah, some out brake or brake too late, but the cars themselves are pretty evenly matched power wise, which DRS was instituted to overcome. Nothing is more frustrating than proving you're faster than the guy in front of you and then not be able to pass.
This year most teams were improving, but it sure looked like Ferrari was going backwards. MB was always going to be on the podium, so the other teams were essentially racing for 2nd or often 3rd. No DAS for 2021, so it will be interesting to see what engineering MB has up it's sleeve.
And who Red Bull and AT select for a power plant, or will they sit 2021 out. Heard anything on that front.
This year most teams were improving, but it sure looked like Ferrari was going backwards. MB was always going to be on the podium, so the other teams were essentially racing for 2nd or often 3rd. No DAS for 2021, so it will be interesting to see what engineering MB has up it's sleeve.
And who Red Bull and AT select for a power plant, or will they sit 2021 out. Heard anything on that front.
XtremeJ
Wanker
Rumor strength only, but a couple pieces falling into place
Have to wonder if we see a rebadged Honda of some sort? They were kinda getting their shit together towards the end of the McLaren era, and have heard a lot of the failure was related to management between Mc and Japan butting heads. With Honda pulling out, do we see some other manufacturer pay big bucks to put their brand on reworked motors?
Is Mechachrome still viable? They are the ones building the Renaults mostly anyway, while the official Renault team will have that power, do we see rebadged Mechachromes running as <insert here> Kia's, Hyundai, some Chinese Auto manufacturer, Tata.
Mercedes will NOT supply RB, and may be some of the reason that McLaren gets Merc engines for next year. Mercedes, Pink Mercedes, Williams, and McLaren, means that Ferrari has to supply another team before Merc is forced to - but who wants to run that junk anyway?
With AMG / Merc and Aston Martin having business together on the street cars, I think the Racing Points will be officially powered by Aston Martin next year. Current Aston GT4's have the same motors as the AMG GT4's. They will be at least two specs behind the factory team though, and I think Vettel will struggle in what will probably be his last year in the series.
Fuck it, Elon Musk could fund the entire Red Bull program out of his pocket, perhaps we see Tesla power in F1 finally. yes gas motors bad, but his battery technology is way superior to the Williams battery packs that are essentially spec for the field. (williams Energy is a spin off of the Williams F1 team, and supplies the batteries for Formula E, most F1 teams have taken the original Williams technology and developed it further) I think Renault has a tie in with Panasonic, who also happen to have a tie in with Tesla.
Have to wonder if we see a rebadged Honda of some sort? They were kinda getting their shit together towards the end of the McLaren era, and have heard a lot of the failure was related to management between Mc and Japan butting heads. With Honda pulling out, do we see some other manufacturer pay big bucks to put their brand on reworked motors?
Is Mechachrome still viable? They are the ones building the Renaults mostly anyway, while the official Renault team will have that power, do we see rebadged Mechachromes running as <insert here> Kia's, Hyundai, some Chinese Auto manufacturer, Tata.
Mercedes will NOT supply RB, and may be some of the reason that McLaren gets Merc engines for next year. Mercedes, Pink Mercedes, Williams, and McLaren, means that Ferrari has to supply another team before Merc is forced to - but who wants to run that junk anyway?
With AMG / Merc and Aston Martin having business together on the street cars, I think the Racing Points will be officially powered by Aston Martin next year. Current Aston GT4's have the same motors as the AMG GT4's. They will be at least two specs behind the factory team though, and I think Vettel will struggle in what will probably be his last year in the series.
Fuck it, Elon Musk could fund the entire Red Bull program out of his pocket, perhaps we see Tesla power in F1 finally. yes gas motors bad, but his battery technology is way superior to the Williams battery packs that are essentially spec for the field. (williams Energy is a spin off of the Williams F1 team, and supplies the batteries for Formula E, most F1 teams have taken the original Williams technology and developed it further) I think Renault has a tie in with Panasonic, who also happen to have a tie in with Tesla.
Weasel
Red Skull Member
I did get a chuckle from Max's comment after he got pushed into the wall about Leclerc being immature or impatient or something to that effect. Basically doing what he was doing at the end of last season.
Dookey
WINNAR
LeClerc got a 3 grid spot penalty for it.