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Fireball releases a giant vise - the Hardtail

Damnit. I need another project like a hole in my head, but if PF is willing to do 50% of the work...

Sign me up.
 
FYI- muriatic acid from Lowes in a plastic tub, covered with soaked paper towels for about 2 hours will remove 100% of the scale and leave a nice grey surface.

I did that last week on a diff cover, then threw on some POR15.
 
Shit. Did i miss my chance to get in on this? I bought the plans a year ago but dont have a plasma to cut them out with. I just had to thread some 1/4" rod (No lathe) and i realized my 4" vise is inadequate.

Count me in if I can on getting parts for one of these :flipoff2:
 
Clemson13 said:
Shit. Did i miss my chance to get in on this? I bought the plans a year ago but dont have a plasma to cut them out with. I just had to thread some 1/4" rod (No lathe) and i realized my 4" vise is inadequate.

Count me in if I can on getting parts for one of these :flipoff2:
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Your good I got more to cut out this weekend. I’m slow at this stuff. This is the good weekend for me to get stuff done opening weekend of deer hunting. One of the only weekends of the year I get left alone!!!
 
Add to the list also. Ive been watching marketplace for a old vise, but I think this will be the better way
 
Lol forgot how much it sucks to clean the weld out. Finally got the tool working good.
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I got a bunch of tracking numbers I didn’t pm out yet I’ll do that tonight.
 
Got all the guys who sent money packaged and tracking number sent to them. Just waiting on Broncokyle88 to say what handle he wants. If you haven’t received a tracking number pm me.

Got 10 sets of tubing all cut and the weld cleaned out from the inside. The tubes will come with the two vise tube and the tube the nut gets welded too. Will be getting one packaged up and taken over by my brothers to get weighed up for shipping. I’ll get a shipping cost for these guys on Monday when he gets home from hunting up north. Anyone who’s interested in these shoot me a pm.

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Cut a few more out for the couple guys that said they wanted a set. They should have got a pm. My little brother and a few employees wants me to make them a couple now. Fuck :lmao:

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ThePanzerFuhrer said:
Lol forgot how much it sucks to clean the weld out. Finally got the tool working good.
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Do you have a piece of tool steel in that? I found that leaving the tool steel loose made it easy to stack feeler gauges behind so I could make a couple shallower passes like a keyway broach.

This thread fully kicks ass!:smokin:
 
MigGunslinger said:
Do you have a piece of tool steel in that? I found that leaving the tool steel loose made it easy to stack feeler gauges behind so I could make a couple shallower passes like a keyway broach.

This thread fully kicks ass!:smokin:
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Yeah there is a piece of hss in there. I’m not a multi pass guy :lmao:. One a done. Had to use the 1” milwaukee to pull it through. :flipoff2:

If I ever do 10 again I’ll just use a hydraulic cylinder and push the fucker through.
 
ThePanzerFuhrer said:
Yeah there is a piece of hss in there. I’m not a multi pass guy :lmao:. One a done. Had to use the 1” milwaukee to pull it through. :flipoff2:

If I ever do 10 again I’ll just use a hydraulic cylinder and push the fucker through.
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A sloppy half ass broach is just about the last kind of tool you wanna push. It WILL fuck off sideways and kink itself in there somewhere.

Also you'll need less fixturing to pull since you can just extend the cylinder and pin the tool to the end and then retract the cylinder whereas to push you need to hold the tube and cylinder to each other somehow.

Can you share more pics of your current pull "broach" setup?
 
arse_sidewards said:
A sloppy half ass broach is just about the last kind of tool you wanna push. It WILL fuck off sideways and kink itself in there somewhere.

Also you'll need less fixturing to pull since you can just extend the cylinder and pin the tool to the end and then retract the cylinder whereas to push you need to hold the tube and cylinder to each other somehow.

Can you share more pics of your current pull "broach" setup?
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I could have used my hollow cylinder and pulled it through. That would have been the best. I’ll get a picture after supper. It isn’t much lol.
 
arse_sidewards said:
A sloppy half ass broach is just about the last kind of tool you wanna push. It WILL fuck off sideways and kink itself in there somewhere.

Also you'll need less fixturing to pull since you can just extend the cylinder and pin the tool to the end and then retract the cylinder whereas to push you need to hold the tube and cylinder to each other somehow.

Can you share more pics of your current pull "broach" setup?
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Here it is in all its glory lol. I did smell my grinder. Did not smell like any perfume that I could tell :lmao:.
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ThePanzerFuhrer said:
Yeah roller thrust bearings are really rare in the shop. I don’t think I even have one.
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don't your big trucks with beam front axles take them any more?
they're a ball thrust bearing with a sheetmetal shield crimped around them that holds the two races together
real handy, I've got some that are car sized from my grandpa
 
10 sets of tube are all boxed up. Shipping in the lower 48 is $35. Ak is $100+ lol. These bastards are heavy. Tube box is 36#. So they are $135 shipped.

Once the ten are spoken for I’ll have to get some more tube. That will take a few days for the steel yard to cut them up.

Three tubes, weld cleaned up in the large one.

I’m not a shipping guy. I second guess myself if I put everything in the box or not.

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[486] said:
don't your big trucks with beam front axles take them any more?
they're a ball thrust bearing with a sheetmetal shield crimped around them that holds the two races together
real handy, I've got some that are car sized from my grandpa
Click to expand...
Yeah they do but I have never had to replace them. We do a good job greasing so they don’t wear out. The lift axles are a different story I’ll have to try and re kingpin a set or two this winter. Those things get beat to hell.
 
ThePanzerFuhrer said:
Yeah they do but I have never had to replace them. We do a good job greasing so they don’t wear out. The lift axles are a different story I’ll have to try and re kingpin a set or two this winter. Those things get beat to hell.
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so buy your parts now and let them be useful in the interim :p
 
[486] said:
so buy your parts now and let them be useful in the interim :p
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Lol my parts tracking system is not good enough for that. I’ll use them for something like this then lose them cause me to buy more when it’s time to fix them .
 
ThePanzerFuhrer said:
Lol my parts tracking system is not good enough for that. I’ll use them for something like this then lose them cause me to buy more when it’s time to fix them .
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That's why you run a fleet of all the same vehicle. Duplicate and triplicate parts get used eventually.
 
WaterH said:
Edit, they are called offset vises. I found one.

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I think with a few mods, you could make them from flat plate.
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Neat idea. I'm thinking of copying that with the 8" jaws linked before, but offset instead of centered. Having 2-3" off the side would be useful. Since I'll be making the jaw holders anyway, longer will be easy, and a horizontal stiffener behind the jaw will help.

I went with Acme thread, 10tpi. Extra force I can use, but I'm not so worried about a few seconds of cranking.

The Acme is listed at 125Ksi, vs the UNC at 150Ksi. I don't think it'll ever matter.
 
ThePanzerFuhrer said:
10 sets of tube are all boxed up. Shipping in the lower 48 is $35. Ak is $100+ lol. These bastards are heavy. Tube box is 36#. So they are $135 shipped.

Once the ten are spoken for I’ll have to get some more tube. That will take a few days for the steel yard to cut them up.

Three tubes, weld cleaned up in the large one.

I’m not a shipping guy. I second guess myself if I put everything in the box or not.

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Put my name on one of those if they aren't all spoken for yet.
 
What's everyone using for thread pitch? Sticking with 1"-8? For acme, McMaster has 6, 8 and 10 TPI. 6 would give you faster jaw movement, 10 would give more clamping force....and I guess 8 is the sweet spot right in the middle....
 
I used 8. Still pretty slow to open and close it.

I would get a grade 8 or 10 coupling nut for the nut that gets welded to the tube. Saves some screwing off welding two together and getting them clocked right so it spins freely.
 
Same thing I'm seeing. No coupling nuts in 1"-8.

I don't think ACME nuts are Gr5, 8, etc. like normal nuts. Only thing I"m seeing is harness on McMaster.


Also, looking at the rod, the carbon steel is rated at 53k psi tensile and the alloy is 125k psi :eek:. Cross section area is about .79"^2 so we're looking at about 42k psi and 99k psi respectively.


Quick math (i.e. using an online calculator :flipoff2:), depending on assumptions you make for friction/lubrication on the threads, 400 ft-lbs on the nut could put 53k lbs. A gorilla with a hammer could easily exceed that if he were mildly dedicated.

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I could be missing a step here....it's been a while. The lubrication value might even bee higher than that....assuming a well-lubricated bolt and the bearings.


Of course if the nuts aren't rated for more than the carbon steel rod then it's all moot.



Almost tempted to go back to regular threaded, high strength rod and nuts.
 
I wouldn’t worry about it. The gorillas in my shop haven’t wrecked it yet. My thought is the unc will be stronger at first. But after a few years of use because of the lack of steel in the thread it will become weaker quicker. The acme has a ton of steel in the threads. All the old vices are acme thread.
 
bgaidan said:
Quick math (i.e. using an online calculator :flipoff2:), depending on assumptions you make for friction/lubrication on the threads, 400 ft-lbs on the nut could put 53k lbs. A gorilla with a hammer could easily exceed that if he were mildly dedicated.
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In one of the Fireball videos he was testing vises. This one (with UNC 1"-8 threads) made 40,000 lbs with a 5' cheater. Some of the bearings got crunchy, but the threads stayed smooth.
www. youtube. com/watch?v=VcbTopj5u7A
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Consider the source, but:

So Why Use Acme Threads...What is it All About? - Dependable Acme Threaded Products Inc

Acme threads were formulated prior to 1895 to replace square threads and a variety of threads of other forms used chiefly for the purpose of producing traversing motions on machines, tools, and for heavy load work. The acme thread form is most often used for lead screws, jack screws, CNC systems...
www.dependableacme.com www.dependableacme.com
Acme threads were formulated prior to 1895 to replace square threads and a variety of threads of other forms used chiefly for the purpose of producing traversing motions on machines, tools, and for heavy load work.

The acme thread form is most often used for lead screws, jack screws, CNC systems and many other applications. Also used in industrial applications requiring heavy torque and power transmission such as lathes, milling machines and presses. Acme threads, with a 29 degree angle, are broader, stronger, and squarer than standard V-shaped threads. This makes them the best choice for power transmission and carrying loads

The acme lead screw is probably the most widely used in the United States because of the availability.

European machines are most often Trapezoidal Thread (Metric Acme), which is not readily available in the US, but can be converted.

Overall acme screws have much better wear properties, load capabilities, and tolerances, than standard threaded rod. Since the threads are thicker and wider, they operate better in environments with dirt and debris as well.
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Now, this would be fun, if you want to overthink it! Recirc ball screw.

 
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