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Do you anti-seize lug nuts?

Make 'em silver?

  • Always

    Votes: 58 40.3%

  • Never

    Votes: 86 59.7%
  • Total voters
    144
Wheel bolts ftw.

:flipoff2:

I don't anti seize bolts, but i do the entire circumference of the hub spigot. I've had to kick too many wheels off. Open lug nuts get the tin man. Reduce torque one ugga dugga.
 
sometimes
other times they get dunked in whatever used oil is around
other times the threads get rubbed in grease that's squirted outta whatever has grease around it
 
No third option for vehicle dependent

My race cars have 5/8 lug studs and don’t get torqued with a torque wrench. Have closed lug nuts that get dropped in the dirt during an on course flat swap. No lubricant just ugga duggas. Wheels come all the way off every few weeks to a month tops.

My old ass one ton that the wheels only come off every 8 years or so when it gets a flat or the tires dry rot off of it. Gets a little anti seize and properly torqued lug nuts. As it sits the wheels haven’t been off in 3 + years already.

Powerstroke has factory nordlocks, open ended. No anti seize on it, wheels come off 2 or 3 times a year.
 
But to actually answer the question. No I never have anti-siezed lugnuts.

Go through a bunch of it on yokes and Ujoint caps though
 
ExWrench said:
Why, so you don't have to look up or calculate lubricated torque values? :confused:
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Doesn't matter. They were designed to be torqued dry and there is nowhere to look up the correct value after you get lubricant on the cone or the flat where it engages the wheel.
 
DMG said:
Doesn't matter. They were designed to be torqued dry and there is nowhere to look up the correct value after you get lubricant on the cone or the flat where it engages the wheel.
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but that's not where I put it?

just a swipe across the top of the end three threads or so. who the fuck putting it on the acorn bit?
 
87manche said:
but that's not where I put it?

just a swipe across the top of the end three threads or so. who the fuck putting it on the acorn bit?
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My dad had a worker coat the entire bolt with anti seize. It was a shit load of bolts too, they were assembling a windmill.
 
Never, but I did put that shit on the exhaust manifold bolts on my 7.3 when I replaced the manifolds and 90 percent of them broke off. Now the new ones back out and I’m kicking myself for using it on em. And yes I took out the inner fender wells and gave em some ugga duggas with my 3/8” impact.:mad3:
 
Anti seize attracts dirt, so no and yes would be required to adjust torque.

Have used a dry lube a gazillion years ago but stopped doing that.
 
DMG said:
Doesn't matter. They were designed to be torqued dry and there is nowhere to look up the correct value after you get lubricant on the cone or the flat where it engages the wheel.
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Who the fuck said anything about putting antiseize on the mating surfaces of the lug nuts? :confused: That's fucking idiotic.
 
ExWrench said:
Who the fuck said anything about putting antiseize on the mating surfaces of the lug nuts? :confused: That's fucking idiotic.
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Screenshot_20241029-224911_DuckDuckGo.jpg
 
ExWrench said:
Who the fuck said anything about putting antiseize on the mating surfaces of the lug nuts? :confused: That's fucking idiotic.
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That's what brake cleaner is for, got to keep it all nice and clean so it doesn't get gritty.
 
Been working in the Automotive field since 1996. I have not, nor will I ever anti seize a lug nut. I use it most places, except there.
 
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Nope. The guy I replaced at work used it on everyfuckingthing. There were at least 3 large jugs empty in the cupboards and 2 or 3 smaller bottles almost empty. 2 years later I'm still finding that shit slathered all over the place. :homer:
 
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I like copper stuff better than the aluminum stuff. The copper stuff isn't as messy and doesn't dry out as easily.
 
This is from another board that I copy and saved years ago. Some interesting info that may apply.

Use of Anti Seize on Vehicle Lug Nuts

Searching the net, there are people that claim to have used anti seize on lug nuts for many years with no problems, and some people that advise against it.
www.engineersedge.com
I did a little more research on this and here is what I found...
The general consensus seems to be that the use of anti seize on vehicle lug nuts that are properly torqued, is not going to contribute to the lug nuts loosening. It seems wherever I posted, more people reported using anti seize on lug nuts for years without any problems, than people advised against it.

It also seems to be considered that the application of lubricants in general to properly torqued fasteners will not contribute to their loosening. It is generally considered that traverse movement is what causes fasteners to loosen.

However, it probably makes good sense that the anti seize be very sparingly applied to only the lug stud thread and not the contact or interface point between the end of the lug nut and the rim. The question of whether or not to decrease the manufacturers torque specifications to account for the application of anti seize is debatable, but if you can keep the anti seize off of the contact point between the end of the lug nut where it seats in the rim, you are probably better off staying with the manufacturers specified torque. The following information will explain why.

I found some info regarding wheel stud failure here...


The link directly below goes to a page with some interesting information regarding the difference in axial loads (preload) obtained when coating only the threads with anti seize, and when coating both the threads and under the bolt head or nut. Apparently, if the information is reliable, there is a huge change in axial load when you coat both the threads and under the bolt head or nut, as compared with hardly any change in axial load when you apply anti seize to only the threads and not under the bolt head or nut.

If you look at the table / charts provided near the bottom of the page at the link directly above, using anti seize on the thread only shows slightly less axial load than using no lubricant at all. This is probably due to the wide variation in friction of identical bolts with dry un-lubricated threads, which can be as much as +/- 25% to +/- 50%.. See the following links for more information.

/engineering-forum/showthread.php/3762-Screw-Design-Calculation-Document?p=10510

/material_science/bolt-preload-calculation.html

They say that about 90% of the input torque of the torque wrench is consumed by friction, with 50% of the friction being between the bolt head and mounting surface, 40% of the friction being in the threads, & only 10% being the stretch of the bolt which produces the axial force or preload.

The article at mechanicsupport.com references another article titled "Failure of bolts in helicopter main rotor drive plate assembly due to improper application of lubricant" by N. Eliaz, G. Gheorghiu, H. Sheinkopf, O. Levi, G. Shemesh, A. Mordecai, H. Artzi, Published in Engineering Failure Analysis #10, pages 443-451

Here is a link to the article published in engineering failure analysis.


Regarding the article at the link directly above, it seems it was not the use of anti seize that was causing failure of the helicopter rotor bolts, but rather the improper application of anti seize that was causing failure, namely applying anti seize under the bolt head or nut instead of only applying it to the fastener threads. Applying anti seize under the bolt heads and/or nuts increased axial loads substantially. It also appears Tightening by turning the bolt instead of, as specified, the nut, resulted in more torque going into bolt tension rather than being absorbed by bolt head friction.

Would it be unreasonable to require engineers to design all critical threaded joints & related components (wheel lugs, helicopter rotors, etc. anything where a life may be at stake) to be able to withstand the maximum axial loads produced by torquing lubricated threads to specs with a torque wrench ? The lubricants vary, so they should design for the lube that produces the lowest friction.

It seems anti seize and/or lube on threaded joints is a good idea in most cases, plus applying the lube produces more consistent and accurate transmission of torque, so it would appear to make sense to always design for a lubricated joint.

I have also read that research has shown that not lubricating the thread and nut face will result in the friction value increasing on re-tightening which subsequently reduces the preload for a given torque value. This would be especially important regarding lug nuts, which are being removed & re-tightened frequently for tire rotations.

It seems all torque specifications should specify both dry and lubricated threads for reference, & if lubrication or anti seize is required or recommended, it's exact application method should be specified. Although ideally the joint would be designed to withstand a worse case scenario application of lube on both the threads and under the bolt head.

At the Bolts Science website, they say that it is actually transverse joint movement that causes loosening of threaded fasteners. In the case of a wheel, friction between the wheel and the hub prevent traverse movement. The friction is generated by the axial force generated by the torqued lug nuts.

Because of traverse movement causing joint loosening, it's probably best to not use anti seize or any lube on the back side of the rim where it contacts the rotors, hub, or brake drums.

My feeling is the benefit of using anti seize on lug nut studs outweigh any concerns of problems it may cause. I do think it is a good idea to apply the anti seize very sparingly to the lug studs, and to try to not get any anti seize on the contact point between the end of the lug & where it seats in the rim lug recesses.

The last time I used anti seize on lug nuts, I think the way I did it was to smear a small dab of anti seize on the end of the lug stud, then run a lug nut on the stud by hand back and forth until a thin film of anti seize covers most all the stud (almost up to the rim). I ran the nut back and forth on the stud enough times so that it did not push a glob of anti seize between the end of the lug and where the lug seats in the rim when I was ready to finally tighten the lugs down. I wiped off any anti seize at the lug end as required.

If anti seize is used however, it seems wise to be extra careful to make sure that any shop you take your vehicle too only uses a hand torque wrench to tighten the lugs to the correct torque.

The main question that remains is whether to torque the lugs to manufacturers specs or reduce the torque by a percentage to compensate for any increase in axial loads due to the anti seize. Based on the information given above, & my experience, my guess is to just torque the lugs to manufacturers specs, especially if you use the anti seize very sparingly and can keep it off the end of the lug nuts where they seat with the rims.

This has worked for me and I think the fact that it did not warp my rotors is a clue that the axial loads are not too outrageous. Shops warp rotors all the time with power impact wrenches, and they might turn or replace your rotors, but they don't replace the lug studs as a precaution for the possibility of them being overstressed by the impact which warped the rotors.

This reasoning may not apply to all vehicles, especially larger tucks, but for most pickups and cars, I would think that if you have not warped the rotors and you do not feel any brake pulsations, then you probably have not overstressed the lug nuts & studs to a point of any real concern. Impact wrenches break lug studs off all the time, I doubt anyone has broken a lug stud off with a hand torque wrench, whether coated with anti seize or not. I doubt any rotors have been warped with a hand torque wrench, anti seize on lug studs or not.
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I use copper antiseize because I bought a very large jug of it about 10 years ago ...

:laughing:
 
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