Cooling Fan Tech

[HYDRODYNAMIC]

I have no idea. It takes alot of CAD work to design something that will work well. But I am curious of how that turns out. Is it driven on regular roads?

You are stating the obvious. It is clear you had no idea what this sport is about or how to design a cooling system for these types of vehicles.
You can call up any of the "inefficient" radiator manufactures in our sport and in a few minutes they will know if you are going to run cool, hot, or borderline. They do not have to go back to their engineers to find out if something will work. They all know each others products and can use whatever fan source you want.
The reason most of us are here and were on the old board is to share knowledge and learn from each other. I have learned a lot from others and I was lucky enough to learn about cooling both for hobby and for work. I no longer work in heating and cooling of food/beverage, HVAC, industrial, hydraulic, engine, or boiler and steam systems. I not here to make money or anyone else money. The last time I was sponsored by any cooling company was Spal and that was over 10 years ago and all of that was brushed technology that I sold at a fire sale or gave away to other members a long time ago as I learned about brushless tech. My new buggy is not cool enough for sponsors. I share the tech and am all for competition in the marketplace so everyone can get better parts at a cheaper price. I hope the other members do the same so when I need a part I don't know about, the tech can be searched and competitive price is there.
I have already lost enough time with this worthless derailment and need to get back to building.

 

[DeltaPAGJohn]

The water pump is pretty interesting.

The charts don't mean as much to me, I don't know how much static pressure there is in a given setup.

Sorry I missed that Carter, Yeah the Delta PAG waterpump is very trick. It's remote mount, so you remove the engine mounted waterpump, gain a ton of room and run two hoses to the block. Pump is mounted by the lower radiator hose, usually on a frame rail. It move 65 gal per min. Its brushless, obviously and variable speed. So completely remove your thermostat and the pump will increase and decrease flow rate as needed. It has a large 4" stainless steel impeller with a 1.75 inlet and two 1" outlets. Huge volumes of water as needed, independent of engine rpms.

 

[CarterKraft]

Sorry I missed that Carter, Yeah the Delta PAG waterpump is very trick. It's remote mount, so you remove the engine mounted waterpump, gain a ton of room and run two hoses to the block. Pump is mounted by the lower radiator hose, usually on a frame rail. It move 65 gal per min. Its brushless, obviously and variable speed. So completely remove your thermostat and the pump will increase and decrease flow rate as needed. It has a large 4" stainless steel impeller with a 1.75 inlet and two 1" outlets. Huge volumes of water as needed, independent of engine rpms.

Is that required for your designed solutions?

 

[DeltaPAGJohn]

Is that required for your designed solutions?

Required? No
Awesome? Yes

 

[TimJus]

just replaced bearing failure volvo fan with after market one.

there something odd in this picture

 

[WaterH]

there something odd in this picture

Volvo is big on counter rotating props. (At least on boats)

 

[TimJus]

Volvo is big on counter rotating props. (At least on boats)

they both turn same way

 

[Cheepin]

they both turn same way

If they are both turning the same way then they are fighting each other. One will be pushing the air and the other pulling. Are the fan blades reversable?

 

[WaterH]

they both turn same way

I would say the wires are reversed. (probably on the aftermarket one)

 

[TimJus]

they both work correct.

 

[WaterH]

they both work correct.

Hmmm, I’ve never seen forward swept tip blades. Cool. I thought the rear sweep was for noise. Does one sound louder than the other?

 

[TimJus]

Hmmm, I’ve never seen forward swept tip blades. Cool. I thought the rear sweep was for noise. Does one sound louder than the other?

sounds similar and seems to move same amount air too.

 

[AgitatedPancake]

I am running the 392 Hemi 100mhz brushless PWM fan on my JKU LS swap with an E38 ECM. It is 850 watt but doesn't appear to be sealed like the 19" Camaro SS fan. It uses the same connector though.
2021-2022 Jeep Wrangler Radiator Cooling Fan Module 68518025AA | EastcoastMoparts

I just wanted to give a shoutout to this post that slipped through the cracks a bit earlier on. After seeing it again and doing more searching I found more of your posts about this fan and what you were doing.

It looks like JLs and JTs have both 600w and 850w options along the line (392 getting a big fan makes sense, and maybe the JT for the tow rating). I got an 850w, It's a sweet fan. around 19" outside the fins, and the shroud is a nice versatile 20.5 x 22.5". Right around 4.5" deep from mounting face to rearmost plastic.

It's priced pretty fair new (see PVK's link), but I found a pretty awesome source. Apparently those companies doing engine conversions are dumping them in near-new condition dirt cheap. I just received a new looking 850w for $135 with free shipping. Of course I'm sure they will run out, but I was blown away (it shows $270 until you select an option between the 850w) or the 600w)

Mopar Radiator Fan Cooling Module Complete with Shroud; Wrangler JL & Gladiator JT

Genuine Mopar Part Mopar 68272755 or 68282799 Removed from Low Mileage JLs & JTs Includes Fan, Motor, and Shroud Fits: 2018+ Wrangler JL, 2020+ Gladiator JT

www.rubitrux.com

It's about the perfect size for the radiator of a WJ, so I just need to decide how I want to control it, standalone or integrated into the OEM fan control

 

[AgitatedPancake]

 

[Gots_a_sol]

Shit at that price I'm ordering one just to have. Hell maybe 2

 

[AgitatedPancake]

Haha I almost got a second, but I have no need so 1 was good enough. Waited for it to come in to make sure it was all legit, looks good so far.

I wonder how similar it is overall to those Camaro 850w units

 

[Wisconsinite]

Damn, that's a thick radiator! Hahaha.

 

[bjeep]

Damn, that's a thick radiator! Hahaha.

Well the tank is...........

 

[chaplinfj60]

and that fan looks easer to mount than my taurus fan

 

[AgitatedPancake]

So I just wanted to bump this to say the swap to the above fan is happening soon, i can't wait. I spent last week in Death Valley and was able to pretty handily outrun my current cooling system with the altitude changes we were doing, even with mild temps. It's a stock WJ radiator and condenser, with a large trans cooler in front and a Volvo fan to pull air. The volvo shroud is too short for the radiator by a few inches so it's definitely less than ideal, but I was very surprised at how much engine heat I was able to generate even though the trans stayed rock solid).

Can't wait to put that 850W on and stress test things the same way for a direct comparison

 

[WaterH]

So I just wanted to bump this to say the swap to the above fan is happening soon, i can't wait. I spent last week in Death Valley and was able to pretty handily outrun my current cooling system with the altitude changes we were doing, even with mild temps. It's a stock WJ radiator and condenser, with a large trans cooler in front and a Volvo fan to pull air. The volvo shroud is too short for the radiator by a few inches so it's definitely less than ideal, but I was very surprised at how much engine heat I was able to generate even though the trans stayed rock solid).

Can't wait to put that 850W on and stress test things the same way for a direct comparison

Please give us an update. On the shroud, would it not be possible to mount it on a secondary shroud? It wouldn’t have to be fancy, just give it a 1/2” of space out to the edge. (As long as your mounting it as a puller) Will this be controlled as to speed or just full on? Is my math right? (70 amp)

 

[AgitatedPancake]

Please give us an update. On the shroud, would it not be possible to mount it on a secondary shroud? It wouldn’t have to be fancy, just give it a 1/2” of space out to the edge. (As long as your mounting it as a puller) Will this be controlled as to speed or just full on? Is my math right? (70 amp)

You could absolutely mount it on a secondary shroud if needed. I'll be doing something similar just to adapt the factory WJ shround mounting config to this fans mounting config, but in my application they are just adapters because the shroud dimensions are actually just about ideal for a WJ radiator. I should have put the volvo fan in its own shroud as well and I'm definitely losing cooling capacity due to that so it's not going to be a perfectly "fair" comparison, but I'm expecting great things.

Yeah you're doing your math right, this thing should be capable of right around 63 amps at 13.5v (70@ 12v) so it can definitely put the power down. With that kind of amperage draw combined with the efficiency of a brushless and the massive diameter of the fan itself...it should move some serious air.

I'm either going to control it completely isolated from the factory computer via that handy PWM temp switch/brushless controller posted a page or two back (that can fully sweep it through its useful power range as needed), or integrate the OEM computer. WJ's came with a PWM controlled solid state relay for the stock electric fan, so I'm going to try to find the logic and PWM range of that circuit, to see if it can be used directly or adapted to run the brushless. Sure would be cool to control it with the OEM logic

 

[TrailTamer]

I spent last week in Death Valley and was able to pretty handily outrun my current cooling system

What kind of driving? A/C on max, moving at 10 mph sightseeing??

 

[AgitatedPancake]

What kind of driving? A/C on max, moving at 10 mph sightseeing??

20-50mph, some inclines steep enough it was dropping into second gear @4k rpms, others it could hold 3rd gear at ~2500-3000. Sometimes asphalt, sometimes on dirt climbing off the valley floors. If I went 60+ it would still get above operating temp, but usually sustain enough that I wouldn't have to stop. Couldn't go 60+ everywhere though . At times I ran with the heater on which def seemed to help a bit, thankfully ambient temps made that somewhat reasonable to do. Trans was nice and cool though, I think the highest I saw all week was around 180-185* there.

 

[TrailTamer]

I asked too soon. I just found your DV thread in chitchat. Very cool.

 

[AgitatedPancake]

Haha, it was an epic trip for sure!

I forgot how much of this thread happened after Hydro initially posted about the temp/pwm sending unit I'm thinking of, so that's probably worth a bump.

The post:

Cooling Fan Tech

The Spal sensor (which you are not using) outputs a PWM or resistance signal to the fan, sorry I should know this but cant remember, the fan can read either one. (Doesn't matter in your case.)
You are going to send the PWM through the white wire, which is the (smart wire).

IF YOU ARE RUNNIG DIRECT WITHOUT PWM OR VARIABLE RESISTANCE AKA POTENTIOMETER.
The sensor white goes to ground.
The yellow switched goes to power.
You need both connected to run the brushless direct.
The reasoning is that you would run the white wire on a old style temp switch that contacts to ground. The yellow is switched on and off. Otherwise the fan would run when the power is turned off or there would be no temp switch to turn it off or on.

Why would you use a standalone controler when you can get a SPAL PWM sender that will do it better ?

18"

 

[AgitatedPancake]

Alright I don't mean to spam this thread, but figured I'd share. I wiped the 4 original mounting locations off the shroud, and trimmed the top and bottom flanges of the shroud so it could sit completely flat on the surface (it looks like the shroud wrapped around the top and bottom of the JL rad by around 1/2", so those flanges were longer than the side flanges). Then whipped up some quick and dirty 16ga adapter brackets held onto the shroud with self tapping screws and JB weld . Still trying to find out the details of how the PCM controls the stock electric fan, but standalone is looking appealing ATM just to avoid the fuss

Original mounting tabs still on the shroud, in the way:

Original tabs deleted, new adapters in place. Speed holes for extra horsepower

Screws and JB:

 

[Rockwood]

Alright I don't mean to spam this thread, but figured I'd share. I wiped the 4 original mounting locations off the shroud, and trimmed the top and bottom flanges of the shroud so it could sit completely flat on the surface (it looks like the shroud wrapped around the top and bottom of the JL rad by around 1/2", so those flanges were longer than the side flanges). Then whipped up some quick and dirty 16ga adapter brackets held onto the shroud with self tapping screws and JB weld . Still trying to find out the details of how the PCM controls the stock electric fan, but standalone is looking appealing ATM just to avoid the fuss

Original mounting tabs still on the shroud, in the way:

Original tabs deleted, new adapters in place. Speed holes for extra horsepower

Screws and JB:

Any progress with this? Shit suck harder than a lot lizard a week from her last fix?

 

[AgitatedPancake]

Any progress with this? Shit suck harder than a lot lizard a week from her last fix?

I've bench tested the fan and it's absolutely insane. But I also decided it was a good (terrible) idea to build a custom fan controller for it at the same time, and that has taken way longer than expected...as expected haha. I should have that wrapped up in the next month or so though, and then can give a fair comparison to the Volvo (Taurus) fan that is currently in the jeep

 

[chaplinfj60]

I've bench tested the fan and it's absolutely insane. But I also decided it was a good (terrible) idea to build a custom fan controller for it at the same time, and that has taken way longer than expected...as expected haha. I should have that wrapped up in the next month or so though, and then can give a fair comparison to the Volvo (Taurus) fan that is currently in the jeep

i just did the volvo relay (thanks bebop) with taurus fan and i am not sure how it could improve. i mean that trip out my fan ran in low everybit of 75% of the time. now if it could act like a dimmer switch that would be cool. and maybe that what it can do.