Cage diameter vs buggy weight in racing

[ridered3]

Pro racers need the weekend warrior guys just as much as the dedicated trail guys need the jk mall crawlers....

Truth. The #HobbyRacer in most non-professional level Motorsport, and even some professional Motorsports, subsidize the costs for pro racers. Same goes for trail riding too. The SxS, JK, overlander crowd subsidizes parks for trail riding (at least here in the southeast).

Who said anything about cruising around? Most are going absolutely balls to the walls.

They’re just doing it in a 6+ year old chassis they bought from another team, fully aware that they’re highly unlikely to win.

If it was truly a problem or “dick move”, Ultra4 would have eliminations during qualifying.




And I’m saying this as a former pro road racer whose last race was ended early by just such a racer. That dude’s attitude after the wreck is what gave him the honorific of “dick”, not the stupid move he made while getting lapped (ahem, 3 fucking laps into the race). A lot of the guys I raced with started in this fashion and eventually made a career out of it. Yes, some were rolling chicanes. It’s part of racing.

Also true on going balls to the wall vs just cruising around. There is a different level of speed for some racers. Cue the scene from Talladega Nights when Ricky Bobby is “going fast again” at a snails pace.

4400 should be.

Some of the “top racers” have advocated for a Pro Class in 4400 but it’s been shot down/not received enough support. That’s where the term “hobby racer” came into play.

 

[Sterlingfire]

Truth. The #HobbyRacer in most non-professional level Motorsport, and even some professional Motorsports, subsidize the costs for pro racers. Same goes for trail riding too. The SxS, JK, overlander crowd subsidizes parks for trail riding (at least here in the southeast).


Also true on going balls to the wall vs just cruising around. There is a different level of speed for some racers. Cue the scene from Talladega Nights when Ricky Bobby is “going fast again” at a snails pace.


Some of the “top racers” have advocated for a Pro Class in 4400 but it’s been shot down/not received enough support. That’s where the term “hobby racer” came into play.

Exactly what i meant. It seems counter productive to try and cut the non-pros out just because they don't have the money or talent. They pay the registration and licensing fees just the same as everyone else...

I've never been to koh, are there teams out just cruising around like it's a spirited trail ride? I wonder why easy competition at the back of the pack hurts so many guys emotions and ability to drive their own car?

There's a reason for that, and i think the right people at the top are smart enough to know why limiting the top class would be a huge mistake. At least IMO

 

[JR4X]

I've never been to koh, are there teams out just cruising around like it's a spirited trail ride?

There’s two kinds. There are guys out there just on a cruise to have fun and be part of a spectacle. Then there are guys who don’t have the skill to be a top 3 but don’t know it and are just going to get out there, crash and break and plug up the rock trails.

I wonder why easy competition at the back of the pack hurts so many guys emotions and ability to drive their own car

Because in 4400 there’s two laps on the rocks. The fast guys who are going to podium get there first and blow through clean. Second of the above two groups come along after and crash and break and plug the rock trails. Then the fast guys have to come back around to find a traffic jam instead of an open trail. There are some big names and big dollars in that trail plug group.

With my skills and dollars, I’d be the 2nd of the two if I tried to compete in 4400. The actual trail ride guys. Probably cruise on through drama free, and finish just under the cut off having had a kick ass day in their mind.

 

[Provience]

And add to the show for everybody else keeping the series alive.

How many cup car teams still race when they know they can't get a series win?

 

[EXTREMETOWNIE]

Actually the Hobbyracer came about after Vaughn gave a speech at Visions explaining the deference between him and Loren and the rest of the racers there. I was reminded that as was a hobby racer along with a lot of the others. Long live hobby racing!

 

[ridered3]

There’s two kinds. There are guys out there just on a cruise to have fun and be part of a spectacle. Then there are guys who don’t have the skill to be a top 3 but don’t know it and are just going to get out there, crash and break and plug up the rock trails.

Because in 4400 there’s two laps on the rocks. The fast guys who are going to podium get there first and blow through clean. Second of the above two groups come along after and crash and break and plug the rock trails. Then the fast guys have to come back around to find a traffic jam instead of an open trail. There are some big names and big dollars in that trail plug group.

With my skills and dollars, I’d be the 2nd of the two if I tried to compete in 4400. The actual trail ride guys. Probably cruise on through drama free, and finish just under the cut off having had a kick ass day in their mind.

Great description of the types of racers.

 

[Bebop]

Actually the Hobbyracer came about after Vaughn gave a speech at Visions explaining the deference between him and Loren and the rest of the racers there. I was reminded that as was a hobby racer along with a lot of the others. Long live hobby racing!

Not that I find Vaughn particularly great, but there is a difference between him and a lot of other racers, for sure.

 

[ridered3]

Actually the Hobbyracer came about after Vaughn gave a speech at Visions explaining the deference between him and Loren and the rest of the racers there. I was reminded that as was a hobby racer along with a lot of the others. Long live hobby racing!

Thanks for the clarification. I knew it came about during one of the drivers summits but couldn’t remember which one.

 

[2big bronco]

There’s two kinds. There are guys out there just on a cruise to have fun and be part of a spectacle. Then there are guys who don’t have the skill to be a top 3 but don’t know it and are just going to get out there, crash and break and plug up the rock trails.

Because in 4400 there’s two laps on the rocks. The fast guys who are going to podium get there first and blow through clean. Second of the above two groups come along after and crash and break and plug the rock trails. Then the fast guys have to come back around to find a traffic jam instead of an open trail. There are some big names and big dollars in that trail plug group.

With my skills and dollars, I’d be the 2nd of the two if I tried to compete in 4400. The actual trail ride guys. Probably cruise on through drama free, and finish just under the cut off having had a kick ass day in their mind.

I think there is a third group. The guys who put all thier hard earned cash, and sweat into thier cars to only ever have 70% the car of the gomez brothers or loren. In thier hearts they know top 3 wont happen but top 10 just might be obtainable and they will party just as hard with a top 20. I think this is where a lot of guys from lower classes that decide to step up to 4400 would fit in.

 

[Bebop]

I think there is a third group. The guys who put all thier hard earned cash, and sweat into thier cars to only ever have maybe 50% of the operation of the gomez brothers or loren.

FIFY

The car is a small portion of the equation.

 

[Wfoyota]

Speaking for myself and my pops only, although there are probably a lot of people that feel the same, we started down this road for fun. Trail riding is the most amount of legal fun you can have. Now apply that to the next level of being well off enough we could split the price of an older 4800 car, adjust some stuff as necessary, and go race 2-3 times a year for fun. We will never race hammers, it will never be in the cards for us but a couple east coast races is 100% doable given our situation. Do we plan on winning? Not at all but I think we can at least be competitive to a certain level. It's seriously different strokes for different folks, and for me specifically it's about having a kickass time with my dad while he is still able to do this and see what we, as nobody's, can do on a professional level. That being said, anybody that claims hobby racers arent needed for the sport to continue can f**k right off.

 

[JR4X]

I think there is a third group. The guys who put all thier hard earned cash, and sweat into thier cars to only ever have 70% the car of the gomez brothers or loren. In thier hearts they know top 3 wont happen but top 10 just might be obtainable and they will party just as hard with a top 20. I think this is where a lot of guys from lower classes that decide to step up to 4400 would fit in.

And I’m not denigrating any of them. I’ll be a part of the action even if it be mid pack because I’m addicted to gambling

 

[2big bronco]

FIFY

The car is a small portion of the equation.

True but even the gomez brothers/ randy/ loren probably arnt going to podium in a nice 4500 car with 40s thrown on it.

 

[Bebop]

Trail riding is the most amount of legal fun you can have. Now apply that to the next level of being well off enough we could split the price of an older 4800 car, adjust some stuff as necessary

I think that switching the main tubes to 2" would be considered part of the "adjust some stuff" you're talking about.

 

[Rockwood]

A lot of the 3rd group use the results in their out of date pile to leverage into better equipment and sponsors as well.

Either way, update the cage so you're not at the mercy of the inspectors and run it. Just watch your mirrors and be respectful of the guys in the lead.

 

[2big bronco]

I think that switching the main tubes to 2" would be considered part of the "adjust some stuff" you're talking about.

Agree. It doesnt sound fun to do at all but if your not capable of doing it in a weekend or two your probably have the wrong hobby.

 

[mobil1syn]

I have a really hard time wrapping my brain around this thought process.

you have never done anything below the world class standard for the challenge and experience?

Not that I find Vaughn particularly great, but there is a difference between him and a lot of other racers, for sure.

vauhgn is a drifter, thats ballet with a motor and his comment was short sighted because as mentioned they need the hobby racers to make the spectacle to sell the exposure.

10% of the people lining up have a chance at the win, 20% have a chance at the podium, 50% have a chance at finishing. 100% will have a few moments of joy

 

[Rockwood]

you have never done anything below the world class standard for the challenge and experience?



vauhgn is a drifter, thats ballet with a motor and his comment was short sighted because as mentioned they need the hobby racers to make the spectacle to sell the exposure.

10% of the people lining up have a chance at the win, 20% have a chance at the podium, 50% have a chance at finishing. 100% will have a few moments of joy

And we all get to enjoy stories like this:

Least prepared man in history finishes Baja 1000 in just under 49 hours - Hagerty Media

Wouter-jan Van Dijk was a man with a plan. A dangerous, quite insane plan to race the Baja 1000 on a bike he bought days earlier. He succeeded.

www.hagerty.com

 

[Bebop]

vauhgn is a drifter, thats ballet with a motor and his comment was short sighted because as mentioned they need the hobby racers to make the spectacle to sell the exposure.

To SLOWPOKE693 point, lots of pro racing doesn't have amateurs in it and still sells exposure.

 

[mobil1syn]

To SLOWPOKE693 point, lots of pro racing doesn't have amateurs in it and still sells exposure.

but it has a GIANT grassroots and amateur network/series under it to support it.

NASCAR - dirt tracks a crossed america
SUPERCROSS - all the AMA district racing
F1 - all the road racing series, go kart series
PRO sports - all the kids, adult, and semi pro leagues

you need a giant feeder pipeline to get u4 to be pro only and i dont think that will ever happen.

 

[Bebop]

you need a giant feeder pipeline to get u4 to be pro only and i dont think that will ever happen.

That's fair.

 

[SLOWPOKE693]

To SLOWPOKE693 point, lots of pro racing doesn't have amateurs in it and still sells exposure.

Exactly.

Nobody said the non pro guys couldn't race. Nothing is stopping them from pulling bypass shocks off and entering 4800 except for their pride. Hell, let the old IFS cars run in 4800 also without bypass shocks and single coilovers per corner. That would slow them down a decent amount.

 

[SLOWPOKE693]

but it has a GIANT grassroots and amateur network/series under it to support it.

NASCAR - dirt tracks a crossed america
SUPERCROSS - all the AMA district racing
F1 - all the road racing series, go kart series
PRO sports - all the kids, adult, and semi pro leagues

you need a giant feeder pipeline to get u4 to be pro only and i dont think that will ever happen.

4500, 4600, 4800 are your feeder classes. 4400 would be pro only

 

[ridered3]

Speaking for myself and my pops only, although there are probably a lot of people that feel the same, we started down this road for fun. Trail riding is the most amount of legal fun you can have. Now apply that to the next level of being well off enough we could split the price of an older 4800 car, adjust some stuff as necessary, and go race 2-3 times a year for fun. We will never race hammers, it will never be in the cards for us but a couple east coast races is 100% doable given our situation. Do we plan on winning? Not at all but I think we can at least be competitive to a certain level. It's seriously different strokes for different folks, and for me specifically it's about having a kickass time with my dad while he is still able to do this and see what we, as nobody's, can do on a professional level. That being said, anybody that claims hobby racers arent needed for the sport to continue can f**k right off.

Great perspective for why you want to do what you want to do. Making memories with Pops is what it's all about.

If/when you cut the existing main structure out to go with 2" tubing, make sure to add random spaghetti rock bouncery tubes or a Big Bird Chassis style mowhawk to the rebuild

 

[SLOWPOKE693]

Last time I checked I couldn't go buy a cup car and just show up to a NASCAR race. Cant buy a T/F dragster or funny car and show up at an NHRA race and its the same story in F1 and every other top level class in motorsports.

Hell, I can't even enter a Pro class SxS race without first submitting my racing resume and having it voted on by a committee.

 

[mobil1syn]

4500, 4600, 4800 are your feeder classes. 4400 would be pro only

4500 and 4600 are dumb classes and not inline with the gen pop and what they are hitting the trails with on the weekends.

4800 could be a feeder class

 

[SLOWPOKE693]

4500 and 4600 are dumb classes and not inline with the gen pop and what they are hitting the trails with on the weekends.

4800 could be a feeder class

So the general population is hitting trails with 4800 and 4400 cars? Your example is shit...

 

[mobil1syn]

So the general population is hitting trails with 4800 and 4400 cars? Your example is shit...

gen pop is hitting the trails with min of 37s mostly 40s, modified inner fender wheels, chopped frames, and many other mods that dont fit the class rules.

i am not saying theyre shouldnt be a pro class, but to just push out 70% of the race revenue is not a good way to promote a race.

additionally keep in mind the series is young in comparison to other forms or racing, so you need generations to fillout all the feeder classes.

that said the biggest issue i see with growing to the point of having a pro class is you need a series that represents KOH and all the of the pros need to commit to racing it to build the sport. slawson, gomez, healy, vaughn, schereer, byler, campbell do not see the value in racing the series so unfortunately its left to the "hobby racers"

 

[mobil1syn]

Last time I checked I couldn't go buy a cup car and just show up to a NASCAR race. Cant buy a T/F dragster or funny car and show up at an NHRA race and its the same story in F1 and every other top level class in motorsports.

Hell, I can't even enter a Pro class SxS race without first submitting my racing resume and having it voted on by a committee.

but there is A LOT of racing you can do in similar disciplines as a chad with a checkbook.

 

[SLOWPOKE693]

but there is A LOT of racing you can do in similar disciplines as a chad with a checkbook.

Like 4500, 4600, 4800 and 4900???????