A_G
Semi-Controlled rage
I dont know and neither do you
What if you wrong and your life was a waste? what if satan is good god is bad?
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Bible Prophecy - Nonbeliever's Playground
- Thread starter MChat
- Start date
What if you wrong and your life was a waste? what if satan is good god is bad?
SanDiegoCJ
Non-Lemming
That basic idea has been brought up many times. Just imagine what a shepherd 6000 years ago would have thought of a being from our time with our present tech with him, let alone some advanced being capable of interstellar travel.god is a made up concept by those that cant handle that god doesnt exist and the story in the bible is about aliens that came here to play science games
SanDiegoCJ
Non-Lemming
Thumping
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Those churches are becoming few and far in between.
Churches that want to build glamorous buildings in my eyes are not Churches. I don't think the good lord cares if you have the latest sound system or a huge million dollar building. Actually I think he'd rather you do more for your community with the money.
Will I have me, myself and I so there's 3. 😁
I get what you're saying but I'm not going to sit in a den of theives and pretend.
I hope the good lord knows my heart and Christ knows my name.
Thumping
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I think you're stepping a little far. I wouldn't beat you over the head with a Bible nor would anyone I know. If you asked a serious question we'd do our best to answer it.
However it's free will. I won't condemn you for not believing...that's not my job or place.
You do you and I'll do me. I'll even have a beer with ya. We'll just avoid the discussion of religion.
🍻
Thumping
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The difference is Gary, no one bashes you for not believing. You on the other hand are quick with the insults.
No, no one has bashed you for your beliefs...they bashed you for your arrogance and point blank insults.
SanDiegoCJ
Non-Lemming
I disagree. I've been called all sorts of names over the years for being an atheist.
Thumping
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No Gary...you've been called all sorts of names because of your attitude.
Sorry buddy but that's the truth.
Ted_Kaczynski
On A Journey
You're a **** that just happens to be an atheist.
rockdog57
Ghetto fab garage owner
I tried to go to church and figure out the truth. It just didn’t jive to me. One day the teacher said, if you aren’t reading the scriptures every day you aren’t going to heaven. I figured I’m pretty well screwed then, why am I here? 😬
If god created man, and man as we know them have been around for 10s of thousands of years, why did some random point in the Bronze Age serve as his point to come tell us about him through Jesus? Why has there not been another version of Jesus in modern time? We sure as fuck could use it right now.. 
quarters_ninja
5711 Oorah
I haven't gone through the entire thread yet, but wanted to capture this before I moved on.
I think one of people's big failings is that when they don't understand something, they chalk it up to the unexplainable. While I agree that our world is incredibly complex, I have a hard time making one of my core arguments that God exists because I don't understand our crazy world.
To me, it's like saying aliens exist because I saw a UFO. Where else could it have come from?
MChat
Resident "Preacher Man"
That's a horrible thing for a "teacher" to say and he is 100% wrong. So by his view, prior to the Bible being translated into common languages, the only people who could go to heaven could read and write Ancient Greek, Hebrew and Aramaic. Or what about all of the illiterate people throughout the ages? The legalism that exists in so many churches are the biggest stumbling blocks to people actually coming to know God. It's like churches in the Bible belt telling visitors to "go home and change" because they're not dressed nice enough; they'll go home alright, but I highly doubt that they'll "change clothes and come back."
I posted this in the other thread, but it is appropriate here as well:
It's never been about being "good enough." That is a common misconception. Our human nature is that we want to do it ourselves, but this is one case in which we are incapable.
"For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all." - James 2:10 (NASB)
But it's not just about "not sinning" as we were born sinners (we sin because Adam's nature was passed on to us)
"Therefore, just as through one man [Adam] sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all mankind, because all sinned" - Romans 5:12 (NASB)
Yet the Good News* is that because God designed it so that by Adam's sin his descendants become sinners, it is also therefore designed that by "being adopted" by Christ, Jesus's Righteousness than can be passed on to us, the same way Adam's sin was.
"But the gracious gift is not like the offense. For if by the offense of the one [Adam] the many died, much more did the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many." - Romans 5:15 (NASB)
Because of Christ's sacrifice on the cross, the penalty of sin (which is death) was paid in full. A debt you, I and every man owed, yet no man could pay was paid, in full, by Jesus.
"For while we were still helpless, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly. For one will hardly die for a righteous person; though perhaps for the good person someone would even dare to die. But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us." - Romans 5:6-8 (NASB)
And this is essentially what it means to be Christian: to recognize that you have failed, you "missed the mark" (this is the definition of sin), even if God didn't impute Adam's sin on you in the first place you would have "messed up" all on your own at some point (and as James 2:10 says, if you miss just one thing, you're guilty of all of it). The only recourse then is to throw yourself on the mercy of the court, to choose Jesus Christ as your Advocate (Lawyer) and be covered under the sacrifice He made.
"For Moses writes of the righteousness that is based on the Law, that the person who performs them will live by them. But the righteousness based on faith speaks as follows: “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will go up into heaven?’ (that is, to bring Christ down), 7 or ‘Who will descend into the abyss?’ (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead).” But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart”—that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes in Him will not be put to shame.” For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him; for “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”" - Romans 10:5-13 (NASB)
I know some Christians have a "better than you" or "holier than thou" or "self-righteous" attitude. But if they are indeed "self-righteous" than they are just a lost as the lost tribes who have never heard the name Jesus Christ. We Christians are no better than anyone else, we all fail, we all falter, stumble from time to time. I personally struggle with pornography, a thorn in my side. I can also get angry (particularly in traffic) and yell out in anger. I therefore am no better, of my own accord, than any other man; however what makes me a Christian, is that I trust in Jesus Christ as my Advocate and I try to do my best, not because it will earn my way to Heaven, but because God deserves my best effort, He has already paid my debt, why would I intentionally increase that debt?
*Good News is the what the word "Gospel" means.
MChat
Resident "Preacher Man"
It's a good question, why then, why not closer to "now," why not earlier in man's history? I don't really have an answer for that one, other than this: String Theory/Quantum Physics theorize that there are an infinite number of Universes, many of them parallel our own, with minor to major differences between them; many Sci-Fi comics, books, TV shows, and movies use this: e.g. The Man in the High Castle TV series, there is some "universe" the Nazi's won WWII. God's mind is infinite, there are stories, verses in the Bible that indicate that God not only knows what was, what is, what will be, but also all permutations of what could be. In other words, all of the "parallel universes" really do exist, at least in the Mind of God.If god created man, and man as we know them have been around for 10s of thousands of years, why did some random point in the Bronze Age serve as his point to come tell us about him through Jesus? Why has there not been another version of Jesus in modern time? We sure as fuck could use it right now..
Yet he chose this one, this specific one, why?
"The God who made the world and everything that is in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made by hands; nor is He served by human hands, as though He needed anything, since He Himself gives to all people life and breath and all things; and He made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined their appointed times and the boundaries of their habitation, that they would seek God, if perhaps they might feel around for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us;" - Acts 17:24-27 (NASB) - highlights are my own.
Here we see (in red) that God determined the "times and boundaries" of your life, my life and everyone's life that ever lived (He chose this reality out of the infinite number of possible realities), but why? We can read (in blue) why: to give everyone (you, me, all individuals of humanity through all the ages) the best chance of seeking and finding Him.
The things that are going on worldwide, the things that are happening in this country, in your state, in your community, in your life; all these things were chosen for you, to give you the best chance of seeking and finding God. And that is true for every individual who has lived, is living, or will live on earth. That is the infinite nature of God's knowledge, and it requires an Infinite God to pull it off.
MChat
Resident "Preacher Man"
What I find interesting is that the Bible describes things about the world, that science has only relatively recently (last 500 years or so) "discovered". In my Creation Science Seminars I present a good number of verses. The hydrological cycle of our weather is talked about. The "fountains of the deep" are talked about in the Bible, and it was only fairly recently discovered (in the last 100 years or so) that indeed there are underwater "fountains" or springs on the ocean floor.
So I find the opposite is true when it comes to Jehovah: the Hebrews didn't invent God to explain something they didn't understand, but rather God showed up and explained things they didn't even know existed.
I don't have blind faith; God has shown Himself to be real in my life many times over. I remember being in prayer one night and felt God was telling me that I was going to preach; being a young Christian, and skeptical as any man should be, I questioned whether it was my own thought or truly from God (I wanted it to be my own thought, not from God, as I was, at the time terrified of public speaking). The answer I got back was that my Pastor was going to ask me to preach. Ok, great, a way out, if the Pastor doesn't ask, then it was just my imagination; awesome! At that Wednesday night's Bible Study, I actually avoided the Pastor (subconsciously, mostly); at the end of the night, I was walking out the door (relieved that the Pastor hadn't approached or talked to me about anything) when the Pastor stopped me: "Hey, I wanted to ask you something. I'm going out of town in a couple of months, I want you to preach for me that Sunday Evening." Talking with him about that after I had covered for him, I asked why he wanted me to preach, he said simply "God laid it on my heart to ask you." Now, could it all be coincidence? Maybe, yet this is just one example of many in my life.
Most recently, my wife and I discussed selling our house in the Phoenix area and moving to Northern Arizona near Heber. So we "approached God" and asked that if it was His will, that the doors be opened and if it was not His will that the doors would be closed. Well the doors are opening in ways we couldn't have imagined; we found a perfect property (for us) and the owner is willing to "seller carry" allowing us to do some repairs before moving up, move up while we fix a few things on our current home (and declutter) to get it on the market (which is extremely "hot" right now). And to top it all off, my W2 employer has indicated that due to the rise in "Delta cases" we will not be returning to the office anytime soon; and I was contacted by a former boss that wanted to know if I was interested in a position as his new company, a position that will permanently "work from home."
Once again, it could all be coincidence, or it could be God opening the doors. If it were the first time, I might be inclined to think "coincidence", however it's not the 1st time, it's more likely the 1001st time, and in my mind: that's a God thing.
Does that not prove that man's fall from perfection (blamed on women, of course) and expulsion from the Garden of Eden was either:
- A setup by a cruel creator who was just waiting for man's imperfection to make man "responsible" for not living in paradise
- OR
- Just a story written by men 2000+ years ago to explain shit they didn't understand?
If we are ultimately actively "judged", it would have to be based on how we live our lives, not how we pray.
I cannot believe that someone who's never heard of your god would be judged poorly for not honoring "him".
Other than the Bible, which I contend was created entirely by man, whaddy'a got?
As counterpoint to Bible quotes, I offer Carlin quotes:
Boss
Rabble-Rouser
These threads are always so entertaining . Non-believers be like but but math? ...and preachers like hookers too.... 🙄
When it comes to God you have to remember. For thousands of years idiots from all walks of life have butchered the explanation of God through many religions and story telling. I beleive it was by design personally .
You have to break it all down YOURSELF ! Nobody can do it for you. Know in your heart that Jesus died for YOU and that God EXISTS!
It's really that simple. If you need religion it brain washed it into you we'll , whatever makes you happy.
I believe this earth is an experiment by God to prove how fucking stupid people can be. Just look around you. .
..and who made God? Shit people are so arrogant they can get an answer. It's hilarious.
Carry on
. Non-believers be like but but math? ...and preachers like hookers too.... 🙄When it comes to God you have to remember. For thousands of years idiots from all walks of life have butchered the explanation of God through many religions and story telling. I beleive it was by design personally .
You have to break it all down YOURSELF ! Nobody can do it for you. Know in your heart that Jesus died for YOU and that God EXISTS!
It's really that simple. If you need religion it brain washed it into you we'll , whatever makes you happy.
I believe this earth is an experiment by God to prove how fucking stupid people can be. Just look around you. .
..and who made God? Shit people are so arrogant they can get an answer. It's hilarious.
Carry on
MChat
Resident "Preacher Man"
Or God wanted man to truly have free will; which means there must be an alternative to choose from besides God.
Note that I said God chose the reality that gives everyone the best chance, yet the choice is still theirs to make.
Deleted Member
Guest
That was man AND woman's doing. Both were at fault... Eve was deceived, Adam went along with it and then lied about it.
And why is it you say cruel? We were given freedom to choose, and we chose sin. It's a set up? We make these choices every day.
Ironically, we could choose to understand it... but like so many today are offended by mere disagreement. Not trying to be a jerk, but lets call it what it is.
Which is why he gave us the text?
What we do, our deeds~ good OR bad make no difference. Being a good person isn't what you are judged for. There is no salvation according to how well you did here. The only and I mean ONLY thing you are judged for is sin, without Christ. The only thing that will save you is acceptance of Jesus. Not your deeds or how good you or I suppose we are. Not that being loving and good towards people isn't right, nor admirable to a degree... but it literally makes no difference without Jesus Christ.
Othere than the words drafted and given to us by God Himself, what do you got?
Sure, Carlin was funny... was he ever an authority on anything biblical? Nah.
Yeahh . . . if you believe that, cool - I'm not going to jump through intellectual hoops to constantly try to prove to myself that the Bible isn't self-contradictory or flat-out wrong, because I'm not invested in doing so. 30 years ago, I re-read mine cover-to-cover twice to be sure, then labeled it "fiction" and stuck it on the book shelf. I don't thing God holds that against me - she's cool like that
I believe I understand the story plenty well, thank you; and I believe it's a cute story written by man.
I'm not offended at all, and I don't hold it against you that you choose to see that story as true.
Please understand that, with all due respect, I consider that story a load of shit.
Please excuse me if I fail to buy the circular logic that the Bible was given to us by God . . . according to the folks who wrote the Bible.
If that's what you believe, more power to you - outside the Bible, I haven't seen any proof God GAF about Jesus or Christianity.
Clean-living Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, atheists, agnostics are as good of people as clean-living Christians.
Believing in one religion does not override judgement of your actions.
If you're a predatory piece of shit, confession and absolution ain't gonna' save you.
Other than the Bible, what contradicts those statements?Other than the Bible or fellow cult members, what makes you think those words were drafted and given to us by God himself?
Other than Scientology literature, what proof do you have that Scientology is the true religion?
From outside a given religion or cult, those two questions^ are IDENTICAL.
Based on the veracity of the book in question, I believe he was fully qualifiedSure, Carlin was funny... was he ever an authority on anything biblical? Nah.
MuntCuffin
Upgrayedded user
He knows us all better than we know ourselves. And there's nothing we can do to hide from Him.
I love that "god gave you free will" comment. Yeah, your god gave everyone free will to do whatever they want and then will punish them for eternity for making the wrong choice. The whole "free will" thing is a cop-out, just like the "works in mysterious ways" bit. Everything is planned, and is your god's will until someone points out one of the many huge contradictions or fallacies and then it's somehow your fault for being "sinful and wicked" or one of those things that, for whatever reason, is 100% normal and nothing to see here even though it is completely illogical and borderline evil from the perspective of the god-fearing victim. This religion made much more sense when everyone went around wailing that they were being punished all the time, at least that made some sense in explaining how fucked up their lives were.
MChat
Resident "Preacher Man"
And that is between you and God; I'm not here to bash you over the head with my God or my Bible. I'm here to inform, by informing I am "planting seeds". Whether or not you choose to allow those seeds to grow or to decide that they are (B.S. or "Fake News") weeds and pluck them out, is up to you.Yeahh . . . if you believe that, cool - I'm not going to jump through intellectual hoops to constantly try to prove to myself that the Bible isn't self-contradictory or flat-out wrong, because I'm not invested in doing so. 30 years ago, I re-read mine cover-to-cover twice to be sure, then labeled it "fiction" and stuck it on the book shelf. I don't thing God holds that against me - she's cool like that
Yeah, no worries - do what you feel is right
I'm secure in my beliefs and don't require any spiritual guidance, but there are those who could benefit. What you're selling could help some folks, so caveat emptor, and sell away
EDIT: also, as I called out nicely in your Team Jesus thread, labeling folks who don't believe exactly what you believe as "non-believers" is condescending if intentional, and regrettable ambiguity if accidental. Either way, it demonstrates disrespect for anyone without your beliefs (or in ****Muffin's case, intolerance).
To clarify: I'm not offended in the least, as I have no insecurity in my beliefs.
If you choose to view my beliefs as inferior to yours, that's on you.
Last edited:
Thumping
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That is 100% correct but he gives us free will to accept him or not.
Deleted Member
Guest
Oh hey man, I'm not so naive to think you didn't know the story... you made a comment and I was just trying to explain a bit. That's all. I respect ya right back! And I get it... not every body chooses to believe something if they don't like. We, all of us, make choices. If you choose not to buy in to it, well again, I respect that.
Well, here's the deal for me. I believe the bible is the living word of God, inspired by Him and penned for all of us to have. I have read, and still read almost daily the bible. Sometimes a lot, and sometimes a bit. If you ask me if that is a truth, I say yes. And of course given the evidence I have seen and studied, that is why I choose to believe that. You sir are more than welcome to make your own decision in that regard, and seems you already have. No argument from me.
Outside of the biblical preface, and what God said in the bible... you're right. And I'm not judging, it really isn't my place to do so. If you are a person full of sin, predatory, evil, malice filled and just horrible... Well, God can and has changed that in people and saved them despite what we think. Other than what the bible says, is there something that contradicts those statements? No, not really. Then again, I believe the bibles testimony.
Cult members?
Well, respectfully, I would say the prophetic word of God is probably the best evidence we have. AND, historical fact. It's all there to examine... but I would welcome any specific Q's ya got. I'm not gonna write some manifesto... Ain't nobody got time fo that!I don't practice Scientology... if you are referring to the L Ron Hubbard belief. Nope.
I disagree.
I like George Carlin... he was a funny guy. I don't agree with everything he said, but so what?Based on the veracity of the book in question, I believe he was fully qualified
AgitatedPancake
Frobot
I'll preface this by saying I'm not religious and and not familiar with many of the details of each individual religion. I have some genuine questions about some of the stuff I've read here and a few of my own.
I didn't know that Christians believed the earth (and whole universe) is only 6,000ish years old, that raises so many questions for me. If everything is ~6,000 years old, how are we able to see the light from stars tens and hundreds of thousands (even millions) of lightyears away from us? Even most of the Milky Way that you're able to see with your bare eyes on a dark night is further than 6,000 light years away from us.
I saw mention of Pangea = Eden, around what time frame would that have somewhat violently separated into the continents we know (considering the short timeframe)?
Would the (theoretical) existence of aliens contradict any belief Christianity is founded on?
What about animals? Do they live and die and their soul ceases to exist, or do they burn in hell because they didn't accept a religion? What makes them any different than humans? If either of the above, why did Noah go through so much effort to save creatures that were "lost" anyways?
I didn't know that Christians believed the earth (and whole universe) is only 6,000ish years old, that raises so many questions for me. If everything is ~6,000 years old, how are we able to see the light from stars tens and hundreds of thousands (even millions) of lightyears away from us? Even most of the Milky Way that you're able to see with your bare eyes on a dark night is further than 6,000 light years away from us.
I saw mention of Pangea = Eden, around what time frame would that have somewhat violently separated into the continents we know (considering the short timeframe)?
Would the (theoretical) existence of aliens contradict any belief Christianity is founded on?
What about animals? Do they live and die and their soul ceases to exist, or do they burn in hell because they didn't accept a religion? What makes them any different than humans? If either of the above, why did Noah go through so much effort to save creatures that were "lost" anyways?