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Barndominium or Shopdominium Steel Building Experience?

Motorcharge said:
But, I can buy 5+ acres or so at ~10k an acre about an hour north of here outright in a couple years.
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Think real hard about buying it now, and financing it. In a couple years an hour north is going to turn into 2 hours north.

I bought my land 5 years ago on a note. Kept me up at night worried about how I was gonna pay my mortgage and a land note at the same time. In that 5 years the land has appreciated to 6 times what I paid. There's no way I would have kept up with that appreciation just setting aside the payment every month and paying cash.

Give it time. Once all these assholes fleeing California have filled up the current states of infatuation, they'll move on to yours. They're locusts. And they're coming.
 
Buy land, God ain't making any more. What Bacchus said is true, you won't be able to save fast enough to get ahead of rising land prices.

I have about 50% of my investments in land. It's a way to move money into a physical asset that will increase in value. It's something I can stand on and look at, and a little more work for it to be taken away than cash in the bank. Since I'm buying it around the property I'm building a house on, I'm creating a buffer zone to keep people out, increasing my privacy, security and preserving the view. Long term investments to help my child in the golden years.

Interesting how I keep getting indirectly called an asshole and a locust by people who live in conservative areas because I want that for myself. I picked what is arguably the most conservative county in Arizona to live for all the usual reasons; affordability, less people, etc., but also because it's still full of cowboys, ranchers, truck drivers, honest working class people. I relate to them better than the asshole neighbors in my upper-middle class southern California neighborhood. People are polite, have manners.

I understand it's driving up the land and housing values in other areas, but that's just the way it is. It happened here decades ago. My kid bought a 950 sq ft condo for $300,000 three years ago. It's worth $550,000 now. I paid $410,000 for my house here 20 years ago. People are having bidding wars on similar houses for 1.2-1.5 million to live next a bunch of arrogant elitist, Tesla driving pricks. I'm the type of Californian you wouldn't mind moving in, because I have no intention of changing anything. Yeah, I'm building spec houses in the city there, but I'm also employing locals, paying taxes, putting money into the community.

Things never stay the same for very long no matter how much people bitch about it. Change is inevitable. You can either go with it, plan ahead and enrich yourself, or do nothing and then bitch about it.
 
AKnate said:
Till you're smelling exhaust, paint and welding fumes all night while trying to sleep.
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only if yous tarded.

half my home shares a wall with tthe shop, and there are 3 man doors from home to shop. the main door off the kitchen i even removed and its just a half glass screen door.

i work from the home shop. and my wife can smell a rattle can at 100yds.... there are zero fumes that make it into the house.




around here garage space attached to a home is valued no more than a 2 car garage. if my home and shop where separate the assessed value would almost double. we also have a much smaller home because the shop acts like a secondary space. a shop/home shouse, barndo, shopdo, whatever you call it is the only place i'll live.
basically i live in an ADU, or mother in law suite. when the time comes i'll build a separate house and sell, then get another piece of land and do it all over again.

i'd think in AK you'd be all about a shouse. just for the energy savings alone.
 
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tracyb said:
around here garage space attached to a home is valued no more than a 2 car garage. if my home and shop where separate the assessed value would almost double. we also have a much smaller home because the shop acts like a secondary space. a shop/home shouse, barndo, shopdo, whatever you call it is the only place i'll live.
basically i live in an ADU, or mother in law suite. when the time comes i'll build a separate house and sell, then get another piece of land and do it all over again.

i'd think in AK you'd be all about a shouse. just for the energy savings alone.
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Same reason I've got a shop basement. Major tax savings and shared energy costs.

I'd love a big clear span building with gantry crane. Have the money to build and the land to do it, but the tax burden is so excessive I won't.
 
Dethmachinefab said:
Same reason I've got a shop basement. Major tax savings and shared energy costs.

I'd love a big clear span building with gantry crane. Have the money to build and the land to do it, but the tax burden is so excessive I won't.
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Where did you buy your land? I know you were looking. Or is this at your current place up north still
 
Bacchus said:
Think real hard about buying it now, and financing it. In a couple years an hour north is going to turn into 2 hours north.

I bought my land 5 years ago on a note. Kept me up at night worried about how I was gonna pay my mortgage and a land note at the same time. In that 5 years the land has appreciated to 6 times what I paid. There's no way I would have kept up with that appreciation just setting aside the payment every month and paying cash.

Give it time. Once all these assholes fleeing California have filled up the current states of infatuation, they'll move on to yours. They're locusts. And they're coming.
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Yeah, what about the next five years? You got a crystal ball that tells you that one? :shaking:

And that appreciation means fuck all other than higher property taxes if you're not in a position to sell.

Back east there are god knows how many millions of lots that have basically just tracked inflation plus or minus a little depending on whether you take your measurement at a point in time when real-estate is hot nationally.

BDK said:
Interesting how I keep getting indirectly called an asshole and a locust by people who live in conservative areas because I want that for myself.
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Because you are. You can spew all the bullshit you want about being one of the "good ones" but your effect in aggregate is undeniably negative.

You are like social litter. No one piece of litter turns the park into a dump but every piece of litter counts towards it.
BDK said:
Things never stay the same for very long no matter how much people bitch about it. Change is inevitable. You can either go with it, plan ahead and enrich yourself, or do nothing and then bitch about it.
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And what happens when that change puts a bullet in you because the whole system breaks down? Plenty of dumb old boomers saying they DGAF because they got theirs. But what good is having yours if it gets your kids or grandkids tossed in a hole with all the other people on the wrong side of history?

Must be nice being old. You don't gotta plan on a 30 or 60yr timeline where the real unknown-unknowns are. You don't gotta wonder how the collapse you precipitated will effect things.

Younger people gotta worry whether sometime in the 2060s they'll get fucked out of their retirement investments or if they'll get fucked out of their land. When you're in it for the long haul you can't afford to discount political instability and how it may affect your investments.
 
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arse_sidewards said:
Yeah, what about the next five years? You got a crystal ball that tells you that one? :shaking:

And that appreciation means fuck all other than higher property taxes if you're not in a position to sell.

Back east there are god knows how many millions of lots that have basically just tracked inflation plus or minus a little depending on whether you take your measurement at a point in time when real-estate is hot nationally.
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It's really going to depend on the area, and it's going to vary alot.

My property tax on 90 acres went up from $400/yr to $450. 20 miles away, the land my house sits on was bought around '98-'99 for $1000/acre and dude admits he overpaid. 24 years later it's going for $12-15k/acre and it's only that low because it's shitty land.

Of course any plan or idea since '20 is a complete guessing game, as all land could be worth $1 before this decade is over. But everything else will be worthless too, so...
 
arse_sidewards said:
Yeah, what about the next five years? You got a crystal ball that tells you that one? :shaking:

And that appreciation means fuck all other than higher property taxes if you're not in a position to sell.

Back east there are god knows how many millions of lots that have basically just tracked inflation plus or minus a little depending on whether you take your measurement at a point in time when real-estate is hot nationally.
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You gotta keep up with the conversation instead of spewing word vomit just to be an asshole. My crystal ball says it's going to be more expensive in 5 years. A lot more? A little more? Who knows, but it's going to be more, no question. If he's looking to buy land, that appreciation means the difference between affordable and not. If affordable land is an hour away now, it's very well likely that he's going to have to look further out in 5 years to find it at the same price.
 
Lucky about your well....

I had 40 acres about 60 miles east of your lot.... property was at 5k feet...avg well was 6 to 800 ft deep...
 
Question about the patio ceilings: What costs more, painting the unfinished ceilings and running conduit for all the outdoor lights and outlets, or insulating and finishing the ceilings, no conduit? What is the general cost difference?

I'm thinking in the long run, I would like the look of finished ceilings for the patios. The shop/garage will be finished. No exposed beams other than the peeler posts and the giant timber truss in the patio, which are going to be stained. Finished patio ceilings will highlight the timber truss. Outdoor kitchen will have stained natural/live edge wood slab counter tops.
 
It's finally starting. Rails for house and garage. Plumber is starting Monday.
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BDK said:
Question about the patio ceilings: What costs more, painting the unfinished ceilings and running conduit for all the outdoor lights and outlets, or insulating and finishing the ceilings, no conduit? What is the general cost difference?

I'm thinking in the long run, I would like the look of finished ceilings for the patios. The shop/garage will be finished. No exposed beams other than the peeler posts and the giant timber truss in the patio, which are going to be stained. Finished patio ceilings will highlight the timber truss. Outdoor kitchen will have stained natural/live edge wood slab counter tops.
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I don't know if you've already made a decision on this... but I went with grooved plywood siding turned down, I'll seal it


If you're talking about using drywall, it won't be happy for the couple big ass sideways storms you'll get every monsoon, and you may decide to put up misters in the future

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I liked this guy's porch, so I stopped and asked if I could take pics
 
gunracer1 said:
here, the metal building would go up, then frame everything out inside.
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My original plan was a steel building. Unless you are DIY-ing it, it's cheaper to stick build them. With a metal building, you have to frame the inside with wood, almost like building it twice. Resale is better on traditional stick built houses if you ever need to sell, even if they are an oversized man cave.

The main problems I've had is the plans had to be "engineered". In my case, that meant a whole bunch of added costs. He went way overboard. I guess if we ever get a tornado or major earthquake in Northern Arizona mountains, at least the green board and all those oversized anchor plates will still be there. He forced us to special order a specific square base plate for round peeler patio posts, and wrote in the plans we can cut them down, when they make round plates. He specified 5/8" foundation anchor bolts when 1/2" is standard. The 1/2" bolts are less than a dollar each, the 5/8" are almost $5 each. There are $45 plates that bolt onto the anchor bolts and screw into the wall studs every 8'. The framers had to cut out studs under window openings to meet his requirements. Every outside wall header requires 6, 2x6" studs on each side. Specified nails every 3" in the wall board when 6" is standard. He is requiring a bunch of specialty anchors/hangers for the patio rafters, the trusses, etc. We have to use 2x10, 16" on center rafters for the patios, which is much bigger than the contractor and framers are saying is necessary. He drew very specific plans, then put "Not Used" on the reference numbers. He wanted to double truss the end, which has to hold up the 70x17' patio without bringing the wall all the way up. The framers called the inspector because they couldn't get ahold of the engineer. Inspector came out and said they could use a single truss and bring the wall all the way up. He also won't answer his phone or call anyone back when they have questions or want to change things. Fuck that asshole. He called me back right away when I called to discuss payment, then went dark.

None of that helped when a wind storm flexed the back 55'x16' wall, and the unroofed trusses failed. It collapsed the trusses and pushed every wall out of plum, and the framer had to order 20 replacement trusses. I know it was the framers fault because he knew better, but fuckity fuck fuck. Wind peeled sheets of OSB off the stack and blew them 100 yards down the hill. It monsoon season. It rained 2" in two hours at the same time.
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That's alot of weird smallish tan metal. Bigger beams and you wouldn't have needed all that little rectangular tube. :flipoff2:

Looks good!
 
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45acp said:
That's alot of weird smallish tan metal. Bigger beams and you wouldn't have needed all that little rectangular tube. :flipoff2:

Looks good!
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I was thinking the SAME DAMN THING.
 
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Projectjunkie said:
I don't know if you've already made a decision on this... but I went with grooved plywood siding turned down, I'll seal it


If you're talking about using drywall, it won't be happy for the couple big ass sideways storms you'll get every monsoon, and you may decide to put up misters in the future

20240330_164542.jpg


I liked this guy's porch, so I stopped and asked if I could take pics
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I like that look. I decided to drywall the patio ceilings and stucco them same as the exterior walls. The stucco will be smooth with just enough defects to tell it was done by hand. It will seal up the space and keep birds from nesting. We can use can lights and hide all the wiring in the ceiling. The end of the patio will have a 70'x8' timber truss supported by 9' long 12" peeler posts. I think the finished stucco ceilings will help highlight the stained timber truss and peeler posts. The patios wrap around the house part, so there is about 1750 sq ft of covered patio. With the exception of the peeler posts and timber truss, the house is going to be low maintenance; LVP floors, granite counters, tile bathrooms, etc. No carpet.
 
Steel has gone up over 70% in the last three years, and is still rising. Lumber went up then leveled off.

While I have you all here...
:flipoff2:

I am going to stain the timber truss and peeler posts. I like natural wood and these posts are awesome.

Pic of posts. You can see one of the square base plates for the round poles in the pic.
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Does anyone have any recommendations for a outdoor stain that will hold up with this harsh weather? It snows here in the winter, but its mostly warm and sunny, very sunny.

I understand that darker pigments hold up better, but the natural color of the wood is near perfect. Maybe a thick varnish for marine use?
 
as much linseed oil as they can possibly soak in. Build a trough and let them soak while you are building. Remove, drip dry, remove excess.

There is only one marine varnish worth a damn, Z Spar Captains Varnish. It has a beautiful amber color. But in your environment of any with high UV exposure, you will need to recoat varnish to maintain protection. The teak rails on our yacht had over 70 coats of varnish on them and looked like a deep pool of amber, just beautiful.

To be really effective, you need to apply enough coats of varnish to raise, fill and then cover the grain of the wood. Soft woods take significantly more coats. The problem with varnish, no matter how many coats, is that you will need to maintain the finish. If you leave it long enough, and the varnish blisters, then you essentially need to start again. Sand to bare wood start again.

I would be going with a stain (linseed my choice) in as many coats as I had patience for. Possibly a sealer, but if those posts are mostly in direct sunlight I think I would be avoiding any varnish application

Standard warning regarding rags and stain catching fire applies
 
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