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Axle swaps besides Toyota/wag44?

Personally, I wouldn't get so hung up on wheel pattern. I'd like to stay 5x5.5, but if it makes more sense to go to 5x5 then so be it.

Could probably redrill, or run a 1" thick adapter.

The dodge axle is a nice option since it's already a D44 center and probably a little beefier parts than a D30, but lack of aftermarket support might kill it.
 
YotaAtieToo said:
Personally, I wouldn't get so hung up on wheel pattern. I'd like to stay 5x5.5, but if it makes more sense to go to 5x5 then so be it.

Could probably redrill, or run a 1" thick adapter.

The dodge axle is a nice option since it's already a D44 center and probably a little beefier parts than a D30, but lack of aftermarket support might kill it.
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The dodge axle can use the same gears and carrier as a standard LP44. I believe it shares the same bearings as the Isuzu 44s. Makes me wonder how possible a JK44 swap might be, to get the bigger R&P? Although, the JK gears dont go down to 5.89

You can get chromo shafts for them, and the stubs are 33spline vs JK 32sp, but only in the 716x joint.
 
I’ve got a set of really nice scout D44’s I’m going to stuff under my 88 Sami.

I’d like to change the front outers front scout to Ford due to scouts odd ball hub setup. I’m planning on RCV setup

Not sure on the D44 rear tho yet. I wheeled with a guy that abused his heavy v8 scout on 36” tires for years. I don’t recall the rear ever giving him any issues.

I looked into a Ford truck / bronco 9” but that’s an expensive rabbit hole too. People want dumb money for them because 9”.

I plan on 36” tires at some point.

Sami has a 1.6 16 valve in it now but plans are a tracker 2.0 with its auto trans.

I’m in the early stages of this tho.
 
As far as 44s go, the scout axles are pretty weak. The tubes are small and thin compared to the fullsize stuff. I doubt ring gear will be an issue.

Although it is a zuk and will most likely be fine unless you plan to try and chase rock buggies in in the southwest.
 
Landslide what parts do you have on hand for swapping outers?

Don’t know if they are easy to find but dodge 1980’s D150 4x4 with part time transfer cases. Came with mostly GM looking outers but in 5 on 5 1/2 lug pattern and selectable hubs. I built a flatty with scout D44’s. Had a mustang 5.0 C4 auto and 4.3 atlas in it on 37” krawlers. Never had any issue with the rear axle. Had driveshaft angle issues but not axle issues.

I broke all the scout hubs and axle shafts I could find up front. Then put moser 4340’s in the front with the dodge 5 on 5 1/2 outers and never broke anything again. I cut the welds for the inner C’s and rolled the knuckles back 12° and it was totally worth the half day of work. The dodge knuckles were flat tops like a GM so it was easy to have pass knuckle milled for high steer arms.

IMG_1488.jpeg


And if you’re thinking to yourself “didn’t dodges all have really crappy unit bearings?” Those were the full time 4x4 models. The outers I used took the same selectable hubs or drive flanges as Ford GM and Jeep 44’s. I had Superwinch on it.
 
JR4X said:
Landslide what parts do you have on hand for swapping outers?

Don’t know if they are easy to find but dodge 1980’s D150 4x4 with part time transfer cases. Came with mostly GM looking outers but in 5 on 5 1/2 lug pattern and selectable hubs. I built a flatty with scout D44’s. Had a mustang 5.0 C4 auto and 4.3 atlas in it on 37” krawlers. Never had any issue with the rear axle. Had driveshaft angle issues but not axle issues.

I broke all the scout hubs and axle shafts I could find up front. Then put moser 4340’s in the front with the dodge 5 on 5 1/2 outers and never broke anything again. I cut the welds for the inner C’s and rolled the knuckles back 12° and it was totally worth the half day of work. The dodge knuckles were flat tops like a GM so it was easy to have pass knuckle milled for high steer arms.

IMG_1488.jpeg


And if you’re thinking to yourself “didn’t dodges all have really crappy unit bearings?” Those were the full time 4x4 models. The outers I used took the same selectable hubs or drive flanges as Ford GM and Jeep 44’s. I had Superwinch on it.
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What was the width on these? I found a set of built Scout 44s and am considering them for a sidekick/ tracker build. Im also curious about trying to retube or swap a jk44 to passenger drop and running a rear non rubicon 44 for ease of parts and aftermarket support.
 
Kylem4130 said:
What was the width on these? I found a set of built Scout 44s and am considering them for a sidekick/ tracker build. Im also curious about trying to retube or swap a jk44 to passenger drop and running a rear non rubicon 44 for ease of parts and aftermarket support.
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The scout ones are 60 inch wide WMS ~WMS. So much fucking better than Toyota width. And if you can find 70’s or 80’s Wagoneer axles from a full time 4wd they are 62 1/2” wide and the rear diff is offset exactly the right amount to run with a samurai transfer case.
 
JR4X said:
The scout ones are 60 inch wide WMS ~WMS. So much fucking better than Toyota width. And if you can find 70’s or 80’s Wagoneer axles from a full time 4wd they are 62 1/2” wide and the rear diff is offset exactly the right amount to run with a samurai transfer case.
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Thanks for the info. Thats what I've read also but was seeing 58 as well. I wasnt sure if the dodge outers gave you a different wms-wms or not. I think for a lightweight build on 37s max,the scout 44s would definintely fit the bill.
 
JR4X said:
Landslide what parts do you have on hand for swapping outers?

Don’t know if they are easy to find but dodge 1980’s D150 4x4 with part time transfer cases. Came with mostly GM looking outers but in 5 on 5 1/2 lug pattern and selectable hubs. I built a flatty with scout D44’s. Had a mustang 5.0 C4 auto and 4.3 atlas in it on 37” krawlers. Never had any issue with the rear axle. Had driveshaft angle issues but not axle issues.

I broke all the scout hubs and axle shafts I could find up front. Then put moser 4340’s in the front with the dodge 5 on 5 1/2 outers and never broke anything again. I cut the welds for the inner C’s and rolled the knuckles back 12° and it was totally worth the half day of work. The dodge knuckles were flat tops like a GM so it was easy to have pass knuckle milled for high steer arms.

IMG_1488.jpeg


And if you’re thinking to yourself “didn’t dodges all have really crappy unit bearings?” Those were the full time 4x4 models. The outers I used took the same selectable hubs or drive flanges as Ford GM and Jeep 44’s. I had Superwinch on it.
Click to expand...
I have the scout axles front and rear. I have two front GM D44 8 lug axles also. That’s it for D44 stuff but I’ve been looking on MP and CL for stuff. It’s gotta be cheap tho.

I may take a day and do some junk yarding.

I’m not worried about axle tube thickness and I doubt I’d bend them if my buddies old scout didn’t bend his after his years of abuse.

I will change out the outers on the front tho.

I picked up a 2000 tracker with a 2.0 in it but it supposedly ran really rough no power and knocking noise. I’m going to pop the valve cover off and see if one of the chains is broken or a look inside the combustion chambers with my video scope. The 2.0 has good power imo for their size.

I’m not at all a fan of Toyota axles as their housing are very weak. I’ve bent several fronts even after fabing up a truss for them. I fawking hate working on them also. A pita to do oil seals etc etc. on top of that crappy turning radius too.

I saw this on a video from out west and want to build the rear of my Sami like this one. Long wheel base and utility ability also besides just wheelin.

IMG_2326.jpeg
 
Landslide are you going to cut and turn? A lot of my friends and myself used scout rear 44s and scrapped the front axles. We built custom housings instead. Mainly because low pinion and insufficient caster. we often use the outer stubs because they work with stock CJ7 outers
 
Narrowing a Chevy 44 is 6ish hours of work. It bolts in then and caster can be set wherever you want. Dutchman will respline the inners for $50ish a side. Grind down the factory cast spring perch to pick the pinion up a bit. Usually they come with flat top knuckles. .500” thick housings too.
 
For me, nothing really crazy as I’ve already been there done that. I’m looking to build a trail tough friendly rig that I can get around in and not walk back. I’m not looking to get back into the wheeling scene at this time.

I have no issues building a custom D44 front as I’ve done that before and it was fun doing it. I’ve done the 60’s under a Toyota thing and while it was bullet proof, the weight killed the nimbleness of the Toyota and it’s lighting fast throttle snaps you could do and no wheel speed at all.

I don’t have money to throw at this thing so it’s a slow build and not a lot of attention towards its build either. Too much else going on.

The issue with the 9” is I’ve seen way too many 9” turds puked out of the diff under heavy wheeling conditions. It’s really sad thing seeing gears and oil all over the ground and a sad driver looking at it knowing his weekend is done.

I cannot see a Suzuki 2.0 destroying a D44 diff after seeing how they hold up to V8’s.

I can find a Ford HP D44 and finger fawk it (that’s what my last modified diff was) and I’ve been searching for one. It’ll give me the outer stuff I need as well with the hub bolt pattern.

This weekend is inspecting the 2.0 engine in the tracker I picked up. Hopefully there’s not too much damage to it.

IMG_2569.jpeg
 
Landslide said:
For me, nothing really crazy as I’ve already been there done that. I’m looking to build a trail tough friendly rig that I can get around in and not walk back. I’m not looking to get back into the wheeling scene at this time.

I have no issues building a custom D44 front as I’ve done that before and it was fun doing it. I’ve done the 60’s under a Toyota thing and while it was bullet proof, the weight killed the nimbleness of the Toyota and it’s lighting fast throttle snaps you could do and no wheel speed at all.

I don’t have money to throw at this thing so it’s a slow build and not a lot of attention towards its build either. Too much else going on.

The issue with the 9” is I’ve seen way too many 9” turds puked out of the diff under heavy wheeling conditions. It’s really sad thing seeing gears and oil all over the ground and a sad driver looking at it knowing his weekend is done.
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A 9" is much stronger than a D44, as long as you aren't using all the old junk 9" parts.

Landslide said:
I cannot see a Suzuki 2.0 destroying a D44 diff after seeing how they hold up to V8’s.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure why you think the D44 diff is so tough, I've had buddies tear them up with a 22r.

Landslide said:
I can find a Ford HP D44 and finger fawk it (that’s what my last modified diff was) and I’ve been searching for one. It’ll give me the outer stuff I need as well with the hub bolt pattern.

This weekend is inspecting the 2.0 engine in the tracker I picked up. Hopefully there’s not too much damage to it.
Click to expand...

My problem with the old D44s is the joint. Every buddy I've ever wheeled with who had the 7xx sized axle joint had broke them many times. Even the rcvs are smaller than a toyota birf. Including light weight Toyotas and samurai. Which is part of what this thread is about. The newer unit bearing D30 and D44 outters are capable of a 1350 sized joint. If you want to chop something up, I'd be looking at using the newer outters so that way when you drop the money on rcvs it's not a waste.

On the other hand, if you want to just use those scout axles more or less as is, go for it. I would just be hesitant to dump a bunch of money into them.
 
In my old Samurai, I went with the GM knuckle for flat tops and GM spindle and outer stub shaft (largest diameter), then the F150 wheel hub for the inset style hubs all on a narrowed HP44.

Ran it for many years with the wide 35" boggers, 36s and 37s and never broke any parts.

Big-Green.jpg
 
I never broke stock Toyota birfs on heavy 33xwide boggers driving like a teenager, but boggers don't exactly have much traction :flipoff2:
 
YotaAtieToo said:
A 9" is much stronger than a D44, as long as you aren't using all the old junk 9" parts.



I'm not sure why you think the D44 diff is so tough, I've had buddies tear them up with a 22r.



My problem with the old D44s is the joint. Every buddy I've ever wheeled with who had the 7xx sized axle joint had broke them many times. Even the rcvs are smaller than a toyota birf. Including light weight Toyotas and samurai. Which is part of what this thread is about. The newer unit bearing D30 and D44 outters are capable of a 1350 sized joint. If you want to chop something up, I'd be looking at using the newer outters so that way when you drop the money on rcvs it's not a waste.

On the other hand, if you want to just use those scout axles more or less as is, go for it. I would just be hesitant to dump a bunch of money into them.
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I’m not set on using my scout front so much as like I pointed out I e been looking for a Ford front D44. I can finger modify it to fit my needs.

I don’t want to molest the scout front I have as I think it’s worth more in its factory condition. I may sell it to fund the D44 I want to run.

As far as light weight axles go, you don’t have many choices that will compare to a Toyota and for the most part, they do hold up with modifications. But the housings are weak and bend too easy and you have to be careful welding trusses and that in them due to housing warping.
 
Tech Tim said:
In my old Samurai, I went with the GM knuckle for flat tops and GM spindle and outer stub shaft (largest diameter), then the F150 wheel hub for the inset style hubs all on a narrowed HP44.

Ran it for many years with the wide 35" boggers, 36s and 37s and never broke any parts.

Big-Green.jpg
Click to expand...

That defies gravity just so you know

This looks more realistic :flipoff2:

IMG_2572.jpeg
 
Landslide said:
I’m not set on using my scout front so much as like I pointed out I e been looking for a Ford front D44. I can finger modify it to fit my needs.

I don’t want to molest the scout front I have as I think it’s worth more in its factory condition. I may sell it to fund the D44 I want to run.

As far as light weight axles go, you don’t have many choices that will compare to a Toyota and for the most part, they do hold up with modifications. But the housings are weak and bend too easy and you have to be careful welding trusses and that in them due to housing warping.
Click to expand...

I'm not saying to use Toyota axles, they were great 20 years ago when I got the whole truck for free. I did bend one in my samurai on 33s, not arguing there. I don't think the scout axle housings are much more robust, but it's been a while since I have had my hands on a set.

like I said, I don't have much against them, just don't think they're worth dumping a ton of money into. Run some 35x10 sxs tires, they'd probably be great.

Read the whole thread, lots of discussion about other options that won't break the bank if you're willing to chop them up a bit.
 
YotaAtieToo said:
Another nice thing is 32 or 35 spline inners seem to be fairly common now for D44s.
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My google must be bad, link to 35 spline locker for a JK D44?
YotaAtieToo said:
Even the rcvs are smaller than a toyota birf.
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I think I've posted this before, but is there a RCV bell size chart for different applications?

Just comparing tire size warranty between RCV applications, old school D44 is warrantied to over 40" while XJ/ZJ/TJ Dana 30 is only 35" even with the 30 spline "upgrade". Which doesn't make sense, if you can fit a bigger joint/bell in the XJ/ZJ/TJ D30 than the old school D44, and both are running 30 spline RCV's, why is the old school 44 warrantied to larger tire?

Same concept for the JK D30, only warrantied to 35" while the JK D44 is warrantied to 40" - both 30 spline inners.

Maybe they're factoring in other weakness/strengths of the complete axle, but it seems like they shouldn't since what do they care if their part isn't the one breaking?
 
It’s all marketing. Run RCV’s with 40s on a JK axle and you will see you really cannot get away with it for long, unless you like changing broken axle shafts.
 
I guess my point was that’s all the info there is to compare between different applications.

It’s not like being able to compare between joint size in old Dana 44 to new Dana 44 etc. it’s just a 30 spline RCV bell but for one application it’s good for one tire size and the other it’s good for something bigger.
 
Wilson said:
One year with mine, so far
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You are likely a more finesse driver than the people I know? Idk. A friend of mine had him in his 2007 Rubicon. Could not keep the axles/ gears together with 40s. I don’t remember what tire he was running.
 
RD147 for non-Rubi JK rear axles:
Dana 443.73 & DNSuits all ratios of some late model D44 (e.g. JK)3538.1 (1.50")24/48 DP30°RD147

RD157 for Rubi JK front and rear axles:
Jeep JK Rubicon,35 SPLALLReplacement for 32 SPL Rock-Trac e-locker3538.1 (1.50")24/48 DP30°RD157


The bearing journal diameters and bearings are different between the two.

RD147 uses Timken # LM104949 / LM104912.
RD157 uses Timken # JLM704649 / JLM704610.
 
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Beat95yj said:
You are likely a more finesse driver than the people I know? Idk. A friend of mine had him in his 2007 Rubicon. Could not keep the axles/ gears together with 40s. I don’t remember what tire he was running.
Click to expand...
I would have to agree. 15 years ago I drove like a hammer and was breaking d60 joints, shafts and gears. I’ll now adjust my line and try not to get wedged too badly.
 
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