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Anyone know JCB telehandlers? Steering problems....

ThePanzerFuhrer said:
Rookie:lmao::flipoff2: View attachment 827726
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Yeah....lemme just run out back and fire up a pair of 966's. :flipoff2:


I'm really thinking the easiest thing will be to just get the rear wheels straight, and then pull the hose(s) the the cylinder(s) and plug them off. I'm sure it'll still drift a bit, but hopefully not in the short time it take to unload. I just can find shit on tech on the thing to even try to be prepared.

Like, I'm assuming there's just a single double piston cylinder on the rear steer. I'm just hoping it has hoses and not weird hardline fittings. I just bought a big set of AN plugs and caps the other day so I'm hoping I'll have something in there there will work.

Or, if I could find anything on how it switches between the steering modes - as in, is it a NO or NC circuit on the solenoid(s)? Could I get them straight and just unplug the solenoid? Or do I need to jump the solenoid to keep it powered?
 
arse_sidewards said:
Can you pick it up with both lifts and the forks above and the load dangling from (preferably long) chains? That should make putting it down way less sketch to put down.
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Problem is that 6k lifts are rated for 6k at probably 24" from the carriage. This thing weighs 10k and I'd probably be picking close to 4' from the carriage on the lifts. That's somewhere between 25 and 70% over capacity. I'd probably be ok at 25%, but I'll probably have 3 lifts tits up at 70%. Plus I don't have a good place to perform said operation where the lifts would be in stable ground.
 
It may or may not be a thing on the JCB but you would probably do well to have an ORB/ORFS plug/cap kit around as well. In my very limited experience on newer equipment like that that it seems less and less JIC fittings.
 
bgaidan said:
Yeah....lemme just run out back and fire up a pair of 966's. :flipoff2:


I'm really thinking the easiest thing will be to just get the rear wheels straight, and then pull the hose(s) the the cylinder(s) and plug them off. I'm sure it'll still drift a bit, but hopefully not in the short time it take to unload. I just can find shit on tech on the thing to even try to be prepared.

Like, I'm assuming there's just a single double piston cylinder on the rear steer. I'm just hoping it has hoses and not weird hardline fittings. I just bought a big set of AN plugs and caps the other day so I'm hoping I'll have something in there there will work.

Or, if I could find anything on how it switches between the steering modes - as in, is it a NO or NC circuit on the solenoid(s)? Could I get them straight and just unplug the solenoid? Or do I need to jump the solenoid to keep it powered?
Click to expand...
Being a jcb I would guess it’s gonna have British hose ends on it.
 
Bacho said:
It may or may not be a thing on the JCB but you would probably do well to have an ORB/ORFS plug/cap kit around as well. In my very limited experience on newer equipment like that that it seems less and less JIC fittings.
Click to expand...
ThePanzerFuhrer said:
Being a jcb I would guess it’s gonna have British hose ends on it.
Click to expand...

Fuck. You're probably right. The few that I looked at this morning looked like jic. Looking at ebay, there's nothign for this machine but a bunch for their backhoes and it's all bsp.
 
Anyone know if these trailers are a standard height? Wondering if I can back my 17k tilt deck up to him and roll it off to cut out the sketchyness of rolling down his ramps.

1710355026790.png
 
OK, so I have a plan C.

Plan A is to just Leroy Jenkins it and hope I can keep it on the ramps.
Plan B is to fuck with the solenoids and see if I can disable the rear steer.


The driver thinks his deck is about 3' off the ground.

With my lowest drop hitch, my deck is around 32". Close enough.

Thinking I can put my heavy jackstands under the rear of the deck so I don't taco the trailer or lift my truck off the ground and I'll have more wiggle room to drive it off vs. trying to stay lined up with his ramps.

This is exactly what I planned on working on today. :shaking:

1710356463008.png





Funny thing is, I actually have a plan to turn this trailer in to a half-assed loading dock. I have a container of 1.8 ton mini excavators on the way and I'll need to unload them from a chassis height container. The 1 tons I got earlier this year were light enough to unload with my 6k lift, but I'm skeptical that it'll handle the bigger ones. Planning on building an 18" or so tall pad out of timbers on the back of the trailer with steps or ramps down the to the deck. The pad needs to be big enough that I can walk a machine out and rotate the cab 180 since they are loaded facing both forward and backwards. I can then pivot them on the trailer deck and walk them down a set of ramps off the side. What could go wrong? :lmao:
 
LOL..ingenuity fixes everything.

I bought a tractor from Kannuckia, driver didn't have a drop deck or ramps and I don't have a loading dock.

Backed up my tag trailer to it, dropped the ramps and backed the tractor onto my trailer. He drove forward and we drove it off my trailer.
 
bgaidan said:
1710356463008.png





Funny thing is, I actually have a plan to turn this trailer in to a half-assed loading dock. I have a container of 1.8 ton mini excavators on the way and I'll need to unload them from a chassis height container. The 1 tons I got earlier this year were light enough to unload with my 6k lift, but I'm skeptical that it'll handle the bigger ones. Planning on building an 18" or so tall pad out of timbers on the back of the trailer with steps or ramps down the to the deck. The pad needs to be big enough that I can walk a machine out and rotate the cab 180 since they are loaded facing both forward and backwards. I can then pivot them on the trailer deck and walk them down a set of ramps off the side. What could go wrong? :lmao:
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Sounds like a mechanics special full sized lull would be really useful for you :flipoff2:
 
Bacho said:
It may or may not be a thing on the JCB but you would probably do well to have an ORB/ORFS plug/cap kit around as well. In my very limited experience on newer equipment like that that it seems less and less JIC fittings.
Click to expand...
Jcb is British pipe fittings if I remember correctly
 
So I'm the proud owner of a complete piece of shit. :lmao:

Truck showed up at about 9:00 last night. I was expecting him around 7-8 but it hit the normal traffic on 95 and got delayed. Whatever. I'd rather unload it at night than have to get up early and miss the SpaceX stream this morning. :laughing:

The good news is that it started right up. I was told the battery was toast and it would need to be jumped but it was fine. The engine sounds great. No smoke and I don't think it had much, if any blow by. The boom functions all also seem to work well.

The bad news is that "stuck in crab steer" apparently means that the wheels are in fact crab steered, but the steering also doesn't work at all. :shaking: Both axles were pointed to the right and as soon as I started to move it, it shot straight toward the edge of the trailer. After realizing that no amount of fucking with it was going to get the wheels straight right then and there, I ran back down to the shop and grabbed my big tractor.

The unloaded process involved me using the tractor to shove the machine over to the other side of the deck, back the machine up, shove with tractor, back it up, repeat about 20 times. I backed my trailer up to his and we were able to roll it on to mine using the tractor shove method until it was fully on mine. Overall it only took about an hour, but I'm fuckin' sore this morning.

1710419568815.png



Oh, also, I was told it had zero leaks.
1710419600805.png



I'm starting to wonder - if you can't trust a complete stranger selling a clapped out telehandler on the Internet, who can you trust? :lmao:
 
So back to the whole not steering thing. Now that I have it in my possession and have learned that it doesn't really steer at all, that kind of changes the diagnostics.

What I observed:
When turning the wheel to the left, no response from the steer cylinders.
When turning the wheel to the right, they would move slightly, maybe a couple degrees, but I think are maxed out and hitting the stops and would bounce back.
If you turn the wheel hard, it only moves maybe 5-10 degrees and hits resistance you can can't move it any more. If you back it off a little and then go the same direction, you make a little progress with each "bounce" and get get it to make several rotations in either direction.

I can't find anything that looks like a selector switch for the steering modes.


Given that there's only the slightest response to steering in one directions, I'm starting to think it's more of a valve issue - possibly the orbital under the dash.

I'm going to have to pay for the service manual so I can dig a little deeper in to how it's all actually wired and plumbed.
 
If you can pick one end with the tractor you can drive it like a wheelbarrow and if the wheels are steered it won't matter other than offsetting the driving vehicle to that side.

Not sure why I didn't think of this yesterday since it's my preferred way of moving inop vehicles. :homer:
 
arse_sidewards said:
If you can pick one end with the tractor you can drive it like a wheelbarrow and if the wheels are steered it won't matter other than offsetting the driving vehicle to that side.

Not sure why I didn't think of this yesterday since it's my preferred way of moving inop vehicles. :homer:
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There is zero steering so it's still going to the right, regardless if one end is off the ground or not. At this point, easiest thing is going to be leave it on the trailer until I can get it at least somewhat steering.
 
bgaidan said:
There is zero steering so it's still going to the right, regardless if one end is off the ground or not.
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As long as the wheels don't move you're fine. You'll just be crab walking down the road by whatever the steering angle is so you'll take up way more width. It's like a trailer that tows off to one side because the axle isn't square to it but with a way bigger angle.


bgaidan said:
At this point, easiest thing is going to be leave it on the trailer until I can get it at least somewhat steering.
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Agreed.
 
bgaidan said:
So back to the whole not steering thing. Now that I have it in my possession and have learned that it doesn't really steer at all, that kind of changes the diagnostics.

What I observed:
When turning the wheel to the left, no response from the steer cylinders.
When turning the wheel to the right, they would move slightly, maybe a couple degrees, but I think are maxed out and hitting the stops and would bounce back.
If you turn the wheel hard, it only moves maybe 5-10 degrees and hits resistance you can can't move it any more. If you back it off a little and then go the same direction, you make a little progress with each "bounce" and get get it to make several rotations in either direction.

I can't find anything that looks like a selector switch for the steering modes.


Given that there's only the slightest response to steering in one directions, I'm starting to think it's more of a valve issue - possibly the orbital under the dash.

I'm going to have to pay for the service manual so I can dig a little deeper in to how it's all actually wired and plumbed.
Click to expand...
If you are a member on HEF, you might try pajibson JCB 505-22 Loadall 4 wheel steering won't sync (that thread might help you diagnose it)
Or tool_king Jcb 520-50

Given your reported symptoms, I wonder if the selector valves are in four wheel steer mode and both sets of cylinders are at the end of their travel in opposite directions, like somebody switched it to crab steer cranked it all the way over then switched it to four wheel steer.

Aaron Z
 
arse_sidewards said:
As long as the wheels don't move you're fine. You'll just be crab walking down the road by whatever the steering angle is so you'll take up way more width. It's like a trailer that tows off to one side because the axle isn't square to it but with a way bigger angle.
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I'm sure that works great on a subaru. I see a less than 0% chance of it working on a 10k machine getting pushed by a 6k forklift.
 
aczlan said:
If you are a member on HEF, you might try pajibson JCB 505-22 Loadall 4 wheel steering won't sync (that thread might help you diagnose it)
Or tool_king Jcb 520-50
Click to expand...
Good stuff. Registering there now.

aczlan said:
Given your reported symptoms, I wonder if the selector valves are in four wheel steer mode and both sets of cylinders are at the end of their travel in opposite directions, like somebody switched it to crab steer cranked it all the way over then switched it to four wheel steer.

Aaron Z
Click to expand...

I was leaning toward this being more of a hydraulic problem than an electronic one, but now I'm second guessing that again.


I just had to watch some videos to confirm that these are rear steer when in 2 wheel steer. I was assuming they were front and that's what was throwing me off when only the rear was working. So I think you're probably on the right path but I think it's probably in 2 wheel but the only one valve is open and only allowing it to turn right.

But, I can't for the lift of me find anything that looks like the selector switch or where it should be. There 6 or sow rocker switches on the dash, but they all appear to be for lights.
 
So looking it over this morning, I don't see any signs of anything electronic on either of the axles. The thread(s) on HEF suggested that there should be something that sounds like a hall effect sensor on the tie rod that just pics up a piece of metal or a magnet as the tie rod is centered. I don't see a single wire or anything that looks like a sensor.

Those threads were also about a 505 and a 520-40. Mines just a 520 (no -40) which I think may be a little older than the -40/-50 machines, so maybe the plain old 520 didn't have any type of sensors?




Also, does anyone happen to know what this component is? It appears to be the source of one of the biggest hydraulic leaks. It's right behind the front axle and I'm not ruling out that I could have kissed this with the tractor forks when I was shoving it around yesterday. :laughing:

1710428013018.png
 
bgaidan said:
So looking it over this morning, I don't see any signs of anything electronic on either of the axles. The thread(s) on HEF suggested that there should be something that sounds like a hall effect sensor on the tie rod that just pics up a piece of metal or a magnet as the tie rod is centered. I don't see a single wire or anything that looks like a sensor.

Those threads were also about a 505 and a 520-40. Mines just a 520 (no -40) which I think may be a little older than the -40/-50 machines, so maybe the plain old 520 didn't have any type of sensors?
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Could be, the HEF search doesn't let you do a 3 letter search so that was what I found in a quick search.
There is also a manual sharing thread where people have offered various manuals but I can't remember now which forum on there it's in.
bgaidan said:
Also, does anyone happen to know what this component is? It appears to be the source of one of the biggest hydraulic leaks. It's right behind the front axle and I'm not ruling out that I could have kissed this with the tractor forks when I was shoving it around yesterday. :laughing:

1710428013018.png
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Assuming those ball-shaped things on the end don't have anything coming out of them, I would guess that that is a hydraulic accumulator which would have nitrogen charge to a certain pressure on one side and system hydraulic pressure on the other, possibly used for the lift cylinder on the boom so that if you're driving with a full load and hit a bump there's some place for the hydraulic fluid to go instead of just spiking system pressure.
The center section looks a lot like some sort of valve, possibly to enable/disable each side.
Edit: Per: JCB 520 Loadall Brake issues they are hydraulic accumulators for the brake system
1000093616.jpg



Aaron Z
 
Bacho said:
My dad has a JCB of a larger model than that.

Coincidentally, it has very similar issues. All the wiring going into those spool valves seems to be about 10 times more complicated than it needs to be, but it can be sorted out.
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JCB has always been considered the equivalent to a Lucas Electrical system on the industrial side.

Decent mechanical design… shit electrical
 
aczlan said:
Could be, the HEF search doesn't let you do a 3 letter search so that was what I found in a quick search.
There is also a manual sharing thread where people have offered various manuals but I can't remember now which forum on there it's in.

Assuming those ball-shaped things on the end don't have anything coming out of them, I would guess that that is a hydraulic accumulator which would have nitrogen charge to a certain pressure on one side and system hydraulic pressure on the other, possibly used for the lift cylinder on the boom so that if you're driving with a full load and hit a bump there's some place for the hydraulic fluid to go instead of just spiking system pressure.
The center section looks a lot like some sort of valve, possibly to enable/disable each side.
Edit: Per: JCB 520 Loadall Brake issues they are hydraulic accumulators for the brake system
1000093616.jpg



Aaron Z
Click to expand...

Awesome. I figured it was some type of accumulator but wasn't sure for what. That's the source of a pretty good constant dripping leak. It's so dirty that I could tell for sure where it was coming from, but it almost looked like it may have just been from the sensor.



I know a guy in town that does pressure washing. I'm gonna see if I can get him to come by with his hot water rig and give this thing a good degreasing and bath so I can see where shit's coming from and work on it without getting complete covered in grease.
 
Chase the steering cylinder lines back to the valve? If there's no auto centering it could be done with a 3 position valve. Possibly it's stuck half actuated, or if a knucklehead's been messing with it the lines are hooked up wrong


Screenshot 2024-03-14 084443.png
 
bgaidan said:
But, I can't for the lift of me find anything that looks like the selector switch or where it should be. There 6 or sow rocker switches on the dash, but they all appear to be for lights.
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Thats where it is on the bobcat that I borrow on occasion
 
I've never ran a jcb but on a lot of the older new style forklifts the selector is at some combination of behind and under the seat. It always looks like an afterthought until you get to the really new stuff
 
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