Snowy
Well-known member
Yeah, I'm fairly active on a few different pages that specialize in commercial use. With a good product, the feedback will come back and be available pretty quickly. Hot shot/RV haulers rack up miles FAST.
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6.7 Super Duty Maintenence/Mods
- Thread starter zxkevinxz
- Start date
Yeah, I'm fairly active on a few different pages that specialize in commercial use. With a good product, the feedback will come back and be available pretty quickly. Hot shot/RV haulers rack up miles FAST.
If S&S gave you one to try would I have to discount your feedback?
I wouldn’t consider myself active, but I’ve definitely been around the hot shot and rv internet scene when I was seriously looking at it a few years back… idk how much scientific testing data id trust from the group.
I’m going to trust S&S propaganda over this hot shot guys opinions
(sorry if you’re a hot shot guy)Snowy
Well-known member
If S&S gave you one to try would I have to discount your feedback?
I wouldn’t consider myself active, but I’ve definitely been around the hot shot and rv internet scene when I was seriously looking at it a few years back… idk how much scientific testing data id trust from the group.
I’m going to trust S&S propaganda over this hot shot guys opinions
Yes, my feedback on a free injection pump is biased compared to one I bought at retail.
Not a hotshotter, small 8 truck fleet owner on MDT’s/HDT’s. Managed a mid sized fleet at Dayton Freight prior to going on my own. We pretty much got burned every time by any marketing hype there.
International Maxxforce’s, Cummins ISL’s, crazy tall rear end gears, and Paccar MX’s all turned out to be trash and failed promises pushed by salesmen.
Tiha
Red Skull Member
I don't read or follow up on most of this stuff until I have to deal with it. Because it is just internet drama, false advertising and keyboard warriors. I wonder if half of them even own trucks are old enough to drive.
I had to do a CP4 last year. I never read a thing until it was time to buy one.
At that time when I started asking around online and everyone was saying DCR is the last pump you will ever buy and all the other CP4s are garbage.
Since there was no real world experience on the DCR and very little on the CPX that I could find I went back with a Reman Bosch.
Which is kind of funny because I got a bad one out of the box.
Don't know that there is a magic number that says now I believe. It is more about hearing from people I trust and respect including industry peers I have worked with for 30 years or people I have known for a long time on forums like this.
Or reading bad experiences and trying to decide if it was a bad product or installation error.
If I have to do another CP4 I will come back here and look for people like Snowy and see if he has updates.
Unless you have installed a few, or driven a few of the product you are describing, then you are just a liar. Regurgitating what someone else said on the internet.
Tiha
Red Skull Member
What? What are you smoking? LOL
We bought 5 of the first production year, what was that like 2010? Still have 2 of them. The rest all ate themselves.
The salesman came back one day and said International got all of the maxxforce issues resolved when they started using the cummins aftertreatment.
Yeah, right. And he is now retired at his ocean front house in Arizona.
Our purchasing agent left right after that. He loved buying first run equipment because introduction years are always the cheapest. He didn't care if they also had the most problems.
You need to work on your reading comprehension, in order to be a liar I’d have to actually state something first
Tiha
Red Skull Member
Dude, you are taking the internet way to personal. Never accused YOU of anything.You need to work on your reading comprehension, in order to be a liar I’d have to actually state something first
then I guess that makes it pretty ironic what I said and I need to work on my reading comprehensionI don't have a dog in the fight, I was just poking to be a troll
For me personally, I'm likely going to trust the S&S solution because of their backgrounds and I'm satisfied with the solutions they are marketing at some point and do the DCR on my 21 as a preventative item. I haven't read any info on it other than what S&S has published.
I'm at 85k miles and I'll probably wait until after 100k when my warranty expires... but at the same time, I have a disaster prevention kit that's been sitting on the shelf for a few years from my 15 that I never installed either
Hopefully I didn't just jinx myself
Tiha
Red Skull Member
What I said was a statement of Fact and not an accusation.
I don't have a dog in the fight, I was just poking to be a troll
For me personally, I'm likely going to trust the S&S solution because of their backgrounds and I'm satisfied with the solutions they are marketing at some point and do the DCR on my 21 as a preventative item. I haven't read any info on it other than what S&S has published.
I'm at 85k miles and I'll probably wait until after 100k when my warranty expires... but at the same time, I have a disaster prevention kit that's been sitting on the shelf for a few years from my 15 that I never installed either
Hopefully I didn't just jinx myself
I hope you don't have cp4 problems, I wouldn't wish that on anyone.
I do both filters every ~18k miles and only use name brand, assumed high volume stations.What I said was a statement of Fact and not an accusation.
I hope you don't have cp4 problems, I wouldn't wish that on anyone.
Not much else I can do.
Ford just replaced the in tank lift pump because I complained about the knocking TSB
I don't have a dog in the fight either but for every person who says CP4's are a non-issue I just shake my head.
To see a major manufacturer like Ram use a CP3, then go to a CP4 and then go back to a CP3 and pay the cost to warranty out a CP4 to a CP3 tells you everything you need to know. There have been class action lawsuits with GM over the CP4.....but people still say it isnt a problem.
My buddy wanted to buy a powerstroke so bad, he loves the new fords but bought a ram instead strictly because of the CP4. We know people that have been stuck with a 10k+ repair bill due to a CP4 failure. I try to base my viewpoints on data and then people I know and trust as a secondary source. I know people who have had failure and I have read 5-7% failure rates. I am trying to find better data though. I did find an NHTSA data point that states 2009-2012 VW diesels with a CP4 failure rate of 1.6% and that is reported failures. 1.6% is high IMO. Failure rates should be well below .25%
https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/inv/2011/INCR-EA11003-61863.pdf
I would love to find some data on what the OEM deem as an accepted failure rate.
To see a major manufacturer like Ram use a CP3, then go to a CP4 and then go back to a CP3 and pay the cost to warranty out a CP4 to a CP3 tells you everything you need to know. There have been class action lawsuits with GM over the CP4.....but people still say it isnt a problem.
My buddy wanted to buy a powerstroke so bad, he loves the new fords but bought a ram instead strictly because of the CP4. We know people that have been stuck with a 10k+ repair bill due to a CP4 failure. I try to base my viewpoints on data and then people I know and trust as a secondary source. I know people who have had failure and I have read 5-7% failure rates. I am trying to find better data though. I did find an NHTSA data point that states 2009-2012 VW diesels with a CP4 failure rate of 1.6% and that is reported failures. 1.6% is high IMO. Failure rates should be well below .25%
https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/inv/2011/INCR-EA11003-61863.pdf
I would love to find some data on what the OEM deem as an accepted failure rate.
Snowy
Well-known member
2009 or 2010? I try to push those out of my memory as much as I can LOL! The drivers we had would borderline refuse to drive them because they knew they were going to break down and they were paid by the mile and not the hour. International sold them with an insane warranty to keep you after they wouldn’t allow Cummins stuff in their trucks at the time either. Damn near put Navistar under.
I did the wrong thing and bought a churched up Maxxforce (N9) powered truck a little over a year ago. Got the truck for stupid cheap and it’s been a solid little money maker for me. I got lucky once, not sure I’ll try my luck again on another even though I’m a sucker for the HEUI injector rattle.
-Back on topic- I seldom worry about my CP4 so I’m in no rush to make a move. Just interested to keep eyes and ears open to better solutions that are out there. I hope the DCR pump kicks ass, I’m just careful to not get too caught up in the marketing hype.
Tiha
Red Skull Member
We had one MF make it to 700k before it spun a rod bearing. Actually had hope for that one. The driver had an apu and was a stickler for not letting it idle even a minute.
But yes for the most part the drivers talk and people would refuse to drive them. Every time they would have to do a parked regen they would call me and say, hey this thing is calling for a parked regen. Call me a tow truck.
I was like, did you do a parked regen?
No
Well that is the way it is supposed to work. A parked regen is normal.
42 minutes later they are back on the road.
The last 2 we have, they won't regen properly. We keep them local and when they plug up we pull the DPF and pressure wash it out. Usually lasts a couple months or so.
I am driving a '16 6.7 now. After everything I went though with my '14 it does stop and make you think every time you turn the key.
What makes any of you guys question the DCR pump? It's been used for years in foreign diesels and isn't a problem in those, so why would it be a problem in a Ford 6.7application? Meanwhile the CP4 is a known huge issue......
I'd rather take my chances with the DCR pump than keep the CP4 thinking that it isn't going to be a problem in my use case. We did that with my service truck and thought we beat the odds until it decided at 198k miles that it wanted to eat itself up and cost us about $23k to fix it.
I'd rather take my chances with the DCR pump than keep the CP4 thinking that it isn't going to be a problem in my use case. We did that with my service truck and thought we beat the odds until it decided at 198k miles that it wanted to eat itself up and cost us about $23k to fix it.
Snowy
Well-known member
I keep asking what applications the DCR pump is used for and no one can seem to answer. Even though it’s “other applications” use keeps getting regurgitated like a piece of slick marketing material is fact.
Snowy
Well-known member
So you think it's worse than the CP4?
I have literally no idea.
Lots of real world data out there on CP4’s and very little data exists about the DCR pump.
Tiha
Red Skull Member
Ford Didn't randomly choose the CP4.
If the DCR has been available for years and proven in all these other applications why hasn't ford or gm or dodge used it in their OEM production already?
I have that same argument with fuel additives, If they were that great some OEM would have snatched them up in order to meet mpg or emissions standards.
There are a lot of CP4 issues, sure but like anything else on the internet for every 1 bad one you hear about there are probably 1,000 you don't hear about and given Ford's sales numbers there could be 100,000 for every one failure.
If the DCR has been available for years and proven in all these other applications why hasn't ford or gm or dodge used it in their OEM production already?
I have that same argument with fuel additives, If they were that great some OEM would have snatched them up in order to meet mpg or emissions standards.
There are a lot of CP4 issues, sure but like anything else on the internet for every 1 bad one you hear about there are probably 1,000 you don't hear about and given Ford's sales numbers there could be 100,000 for every one failure.
I'll take my chances with the unknown DCR over the CP4 that I know is going to fail.
arse_sidewards
Red Skull Member
- Joined
- May 19, 2020
- Member Number
- 71
- Messages
- 8,558
Trying to hard to make unnecessarily high strung europoor garbage engineering that's only reliably in a lab work in the North American market where people have far higher standards than in Europe because your company is lousy with europoor engineers and people who look up to that kind of engineering is a failure mode pretty typical of Ford.
Snowy
Well-known member
I'm still patiently waiting for a single OEM application that the DCR pump is used in.
TrailTamer
🤣🖕🏻
SLOWPOKE693 hurry swap your DCR pump in, and sell CP4 to Snowy for $2,000
Snowy
Well-known member
I want the DCR to be a win for the record. I'll gladly spend the money on one tomorrow if I knew it was an upgrade. Hence why I started this whole discussion asking for feedback from someone that has a pump in their hands.
You're right. S&S along with Standyne pulled this pump out of their ass and it magically fit in a Ford 6.7 engine with an adapter plate and requires zero ECU recalibration so it definitely must be garbage unlike the CP4 that THE SMART OEM's STOPPED USING just because they don't like even numbers.....
Do you work for Ford or Bosch?
TrailTamer
🤣🖕🏻
The CP4-to-DCR pump is based on Stanadyne's 2P (2-piston) Modular Diesel Common Rail (MDCR). Not from an OEM application as-is....
Heart Transplant Every 6.7L Power Stroke Needs: Prevent Engine Failure with a CP4.2 To DCR Conversion
With CP4.2 fuel pump failure rampant throughout the diesel truck industry, two industry titans teamed up for a dependable solution.
www.drivingline.com
If you don't hear about them blowing up 6.7s what's your problem?
The CP4-to-DCR pump is based on Stanadyne's 2P (2-piston) Modular Diesel Common Rail (MDCR). Not from an OEM application as-is....
Heart Transplant Every 6.7L Power Stroke Needs: Prevent Engine Failure with a CP4.2 To DCR Conversion
With CP4.2 fuel pump failure rampant throughout the diesel truck industry, two industry titans teamed up for a dependable solution.
Snowy says that's all smoke and mirrors but Ford denying that there is a problem with the CP4 makes it true.
TrailTamer
🤣🖕🏻
I'm gonna dump a cup of rusty watery of some unknown fluid into my rattly 12v cummins dodge tank.... and at worst case it'll run rough idle or need high idle to power through it....Snowy says that's all smoke and mirrors but Ford denying that there is a problem with the CP4 makes it true.
and ask ford to let me do the same to their ford PSD to see how 'tough' it really is... and see how fast they run to stop me from opening its tank door.
Snowy
Well-known member
You're right. S&S along with Standyne pulled this pump out of their ass and it magically fit in a Ford 6.7 engine with an adapter plate and requires zero ECU recalibration so it definitely must be garbage unlike the CP4 that THE SMART OEM's STOPPED USING just because they don't like even numbers.....
Do you work for Ford or Bosch?
I'm not defending the CP4, it sucks. I want there to be a fix for it and I hope that is the DCR. I do think it's too early to know for sure if the DCR is the certain fix.
It also is well documented that fuel learn tables have to be reset in Forscan with the DCR or you will get a CEL. S&S leaves that out of the instructions.
The CP4-to-DCR pump is based on Stanadyne's 2P (2-piston) Modular Diesel Common Rail (MDCR). Not from an OEM application as-is....
Heart Transplant Every 6.7L Power Stroke Needs: Prevent Engine Failure with a CP4.2 To DCR Conversion
With CP4.2 fuel pump failure rampant throughout the diesel truck industry, two industry titans teamed up for a dependable solution.
Application for that pump?