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6.7 Super Duty Maintenence/Mods

YotaAtieToo said:
I actually was just starting to read your thread. I may just return the dpk as I just feel like stock is reliable. Just try to be good about Changing the fuel filter.

Funny that everyone says to change the fuel filters every 15k miles. We have 6 or 7 6.7s at work and I don't think the crusty old guy in the shop has ever changed the fuel filter on any of them :laughing:

I could be wrong, but when you work at a place that they expect you to change your own oil, you'd think they'd mention the fuel filter too.
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I do oil every 5k (synthetic), both fuel filters every 10k and air 15k
 
Tiha said:
Going through all of this right now, well for almost a year as I am just working on a spare truck.

The disaster kits. That is a 50/50 thing. None of them are guaranteed to save the fuel system. In all my reading I think I found one person that said, "Yes it saved me." and a whole lot of people that had problems. Low pressure. Or pissed off because they thought it would save them and did not.

Take all of this with a grain of salt because it is what I read online. So there's that.

DCR pump, hey yeah that sounds great. But honestly the only real world experience anyone has with it is NONE. I would wait a little longer before jumping on that bandwagon.

If you are looking at aftermarket modified pumps CPX has some great options. Then again they have not been around that long either.

OEM remans, you can get such a wide range of options and a wide range of prices. You can find good and bad reviews about all of them. It is a total crap shoot.

Injectors direct is one that I found had the worst reviews. They even offer used/tested injectors, Not even rebuilt. Yet you go on FB and the guys seem to think that is the greatest place ever.
Another is Pensacola diesel. Those guys have been around for a long time. They have some good and bad reviews. But FB guys seem to hate them. But to put it in perspective Pensacola diesel rebuilds and sells 10 times more injectors than most other dealers. So they should have more complaints.

Nobody is going to say anything until they have a problem. There are Brand new high end parts and the lowest cheapest budget parts being put in everyday and working just fine for a long time.

New or reman there is no guarantee you are getting a good part. Nor is it guaranteed that any of these disaster kits or modified pumps are any better than factory setup. It is just luck of the draw.

Leave it alone as long as you can.
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I feel very similarly to you.

I’m watching how the DCR pumps do long term. I’d love for them to be an improvement over the CP4 but I’m not holding my breath. Aftermarket companies RARELY make a part/component that holds up to regular owner abuse as well as an OE designed piece. There are some exceptions of course (plastic charge pipe on a 6.7) but this isn’t the 70’s and 80’s anymore.

The huge downside of a DCR pump is that you’re completely on your own if you breakdown on the road with any fuel system related issue, not just an imploded pump. No dealer is going to want to deal with it and good independent shops are few and far between these days. At least paying the idiot tax (yes I own one) of owning a CP4 truck is possible if a pump implodes rather than being on your own a thousand miles from home.
 
Snowy said:
I feel very similarly to you.

I’m watching how the DCR pumps do long term. I’d love for them to be an improvement over the CP4 but I’m not holding my breath. Aftermarket companies RARELY make a part/component that holds up to regular owner abuse as well as an OE designed piece. There are some exceptions of course (plastic charge pipe on a 6.7) but this isn’t the 70’s and 80’s anymore.

The huge downside of a DCR pump is that you’re completely on your own if you breakdown on the road with any fuel system related issue, not just an imploded pump. No dealer is going to want to deal with it and good independent shops are few and far between these days. At least paying the idiot tax (yes I own one) of owning a CP4 truck is possible if a pump implodes rather than being on your own a thousand miles from home.
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This was the point that I was at with 7.3. I had modded so many items that I wound up buying spares and carrying them with me because I would not be able to find them on the road. Keep it simple
 
Snowy said:
I feel very similarly to you.

I’m watching how the DCR pumps do long term. I’d love for them to be an improvement over the CP4 but I’m not holding my breath. Aftermarket companies RARELY make a part/component that holds up to regular owner abuse as well as an OE designed piece. There are some exceptions of course (plastic charge pipe on a 6.7) but this isn’t the 70’s and 80’s anymore.

The huge downside of a DCR pump is that you’re completely on your own if you breakdown on the road with any fuel system related issue, not just an imploded pump. No dealer is going to want to deal with it and good independent shops are few and far between these days. At least paying the idiot tax (yes I own one) of owning a CP4 truck is possible if a pump implodes rather than being on your own a thousand miles from home.
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It is an OE pump. The non OE parts about it are the lines and things attached to it. Will it last long term on a 6.7? I dont know but it is OE.

Stanadyne makes it. If you search Stanadyne they have a long history of supplying OEs with pumps and not just the light duty market but in various sectors like AG, they supply John Deere with stuff.
 
06h3 said:
It is an OE pump. The non OE parts about it are the lines and things attached to it. Will it last long term on a 6.7? I dont know but it is OE.

Stanadyne makes it. If you search Stanadyne they have a long history of supplying OEs with pumps and not just the light duty market but in various sectors like AG, they supply John Deere with stuff.
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It might be related to an OE pump on some AG engines but I doubt it's engineered to the OE 6.7 degree that Ford has done on the CP4. I'm not saying the CP4 is great, just that I have doubts about the Stanadyne pump being a magic bullet that S&S is touting is as when no on road OEM is using it currently. General automotive use is a much different world than heavy equipment AG use.

All I know about Stanadyne pumps in automotive is that they were on 6.5's 20 years ago.
 
Snowy said:
It might be related to an OE pump on some AG engines but I doubt it's engineered to the OE 6.7 degree that Ford has done on the CP4. I'm not saying the CP4 is great, just that I have doubts about the Stanadyne pump being a magic bullet that S&S is touting is as when no on road OEM is using it currently. General automotive use is a much different world than heavy equipment AG use.

All I know about Stanadyne pumps in automotive is that they were on 6.5's 20 years ago.
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I used AG as an example that Stanadyne makes pumps for everything, including AG. S&S Claims this pump is in OE Highway applications in India, China and Europe. I am almost tempted to call them for applications this is used in.

This pump is OEM backed, and in OEM applications that are used for highway use according to S&S.
 
I just emailed them because I couldnt find a phone #....Which irritates me.
 
Wilson said:
Yeah…: that builds consumer confidence
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I know....It certainly does :lmao: I hope the DCR pump works out and I have high hopes for it.

My mindset has usually been different from others. I try to rely on no one but myself or people I truly trust. It doesnt matter if its a 2023 model with a warranty or a 2000 that's old and way past the warranty. If a problem occurs like a CP4 I would go to the dealer for a warranty, if it is denied I would probably have it towed home or to someone's house I know and fix it myself. I would call up a hotshot and tow it across country to my home before I let some random shop work on my shit. I only say that because I truly do not remember having a single positive experience with a shop.

I am also the person who would call up thoroughbred diesel (since S&S doesnt have a fucking phone number and they sell their parts) and say I want 2 DCR Pumps and carry a spare. Hell, I am still at 1/2 to 1/3 of the price on a CP4 failure/injectors/lines/etc. and fix it myself on the side of the road. I am not sure how the DCR fails but from what I have read, CP3's and other pumps usually fail and just cause a no start issue vs. sending shit into the injectors and destroying everything in its path. So, you're a simple pump swap away (again theoretical because we don't know how the DCR pump would fail, if it did)

My point is that, a CP4, if/when it fails, its catastrophic. I would take my chances on something else in hopes that its less catastrophic to the tune of carrying a spare DCR.

I have broken down, gotten it towed to a friend's house (100 miles from where I broke) who lives 850 miles from me, flew home, collected my thoughts, parts, etc. and flew back to fix it. I dont rely on shops. If I am towing and, on a vacation, I would find a rental vehicle to finish out the trip and figure it out later.

Maybe I do things differently than most.
 
I'm not against that mentality, but it's not very conducive to running a business. Time I spend installing unknown pump isn't time I'm making money, they'll if it fails, I'm most likely the only one who can work on it and again, not making money.

Plus the money dumped into unknown pump.

If the stock cp4 fails, I can take it to any shop, then spend my time making money with a loaner or backup truck.

Is there anything saying a dcr pump failure won't cause the same fuel system damage?

Also, fwiw, cp4 has a 7% failure rate in the US and 1% overseas. Most of those cases were traced to bad fuel or Def in fuel. Now that I think about it, the kid who drives the one that failed at work is practically brain dead, so there's a chance he put Def or gas in it and didn't say anything.

The more I read, it really just makes more sense to just not use sketchy fuel stations and change filters often.
 
YotaAtieToo said:
I'm not against that mentality, but it's not very conducive to running a business. Time I spend installing unknown pump isn't time I'm making money, they'll if it fails, I'm most likely the only one who can work on it and again, not making money.

Plus the money dumped into unknown pump.

If the stock cp4 fails, I can take it to any shop, then spend my time making money with a loaner or backup truck.

Is there anything saying a dcr pump failure won't cause the same fuel system damage?

Also, fwiw, cp4 has a 7% failure rate in the US and 1% overseas. Most of those cases were traced to bad fuel or Def in fuel. Now that I think about it, the kid who drives the one that failed at work is practically brain dead, so there's a chance he put Def or gas in it and didn't say anything.

The more I read, it really just makes more sense to just not use sketchy fuel stations and change filters often.
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That is probably why my mentality is different, my vehicles are not for running a business, they are for fun. So I totally understand a different approach for work vehicles.

I do have a company car and it is an equinox, so not a truck, but it is to transport me from A to B. I'd like to think I have more than one brain cell and because of that it hasn't left me stranded. I do the maintenance in a timely manner and what is suggested. It also is a POS and the interior handles have broken under normal use but mechanically it has been fine.

7% is insanely high imo. Aren't normal failure rates for just about any part under 1%? I am not picking on the 6.7 Ford. I am a 6.7 ford fan. I am just calling out issues, I can pick on GM for their stupid fucking design where the 6.2 runs on 2 cylinders for EPA BS and drops a valve. Its been a major problem.
 
06h3 said:
That is probably why my mentality is different, my vehicles are not for running a business, they are for fun. So I totally understand a different approach for work vehicles.

I do have a company car and it is an equinox, so not a truck, but it is to transport me from A to B. I'd like to think I have more than one brain cell and because of that it hasn't left me stranded. I do the maintenance in a timely manner and what is suggested. It also is a POS and the interior handles have broken under normal use but mechanically it has been fine.

7% is insanely high imo. Aren't normal failure rates for just about any part under 1%? I am not picking on the 6.7 Ford. I am a 6.7 ford fan. I am just calling out issues, I can pick on GM for their stupid fucking design where the 6.2 runs on 2 cylinders for EPA BS and drops a valve. Its been a major problem.
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7% may be higher than normal by a lot, but in the broad scheme, it's low. Low enough that I'm not going to spend $1000s betting that it will fail. If I was that unconfident in the truck, I wouldn't own it.

It's also interesting how much worse the failure rate is in the US vs Europe. Does Europe have cleaner fuel? Or maybe the guys driving these rigs are a little more savvy. In the US, lots of guys have their bimbo wife running around in a lifted platinum :laughing:
 
I wouldn't be surprised if post-2020 there's parties in the supply chain are just saying fuck QC to various degrees and then the parts that should have been trashed get into the field and shit out after unreasonably short lifetimes.

Industry wide obviously, not CP4 specific. But complex CP4 type shit is gonna feel it harder than a windshield wiper because more parts and processes to fuck up.
 
06h3 said:
That is probably why my mentality is different, my vehicles are not for running a business, they are for fun. So I totally understand a different approach for work vehicles.

I do have a company car and it is an equinox, so not a truck, but it is to transport me from A to B. I'd like to think I have more than one brain cell and because of that it hasn't left me stranded. I do the maintenance in a timely manner and what is suggested. It also is a POS and the interior handles have broken under normal use but mechanically it has been fine.

7% is insanely high imo. Aren't normal failure rates for just about any part under 1%? I am not picking on the 6.7 Ford. I am a 6.7 ford fan. I am just calling out issues, I can pick on GM for their stupid fucking design where the 6.2 runs on 2 cylinders for EPA BS and drops a valve. Its been a major problem.
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Even for fun, time is money. My vacation time away from work is extremely, extremely, valuable to me. Sometimes I work on my own stuff, other times I don’t depending on the situation.

Same goes at work, I own a 7 truck fleet and sometimes it makes sense to do my own repairs and other times it worth every penny for $200 per hour shop labor. I drained a bad tank of DEF yesterday that cleared up some derate codes in 2 hours on a slow day. Today I picked up another truck from a shop that needed auto trans fluid and filters, plus a blower motor because it’s not worth a whole day of my time to fuck with it when I can be booking loads instead on a busy day.
 
Snowy said:
Even for fun, time is money. My vacation time away from work is extremely, extremely, valuable to me. Sometimes I work on my own stuff, other times I don’t depending on the situation.

Same goes at work, I own a 7 truck fleet and sometimes it makes sense to do my own repairs and other times it worth every penny for $200 per hour shop labor. I drained a bad tank of DEF yesterday that cleared up some derate codes in 2 hours on a slow day. Today I picked up another truck from a shop that needed auto trans fluid and filters, plus a blower motor because it’s not worth a whole day of my time to fuck with it when I can be booking loads instead on a busy day.
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Mine is more related to the shop doing a poor job. I am truly trying to remember of a time where I didnt get a vehicle back from the shop where the problem still persisted or they fucked up other things in the process. I just have trust issues when it comes to vehicles. :laughing: The exception is oil changes, I havent had someone fuck up an oil change yet.
 
YotaAtieToo said:
BTW, I don't think the parts to repair a failed cp4 are actually $10k, that's if a dealer does the work.

Quick Google says $3-4k depending on year.
www.dieselogic.com

2015-2019 Ford Powerstroke 6.7L Scorpion CP4 Pump Failure / Disaster / DEF Contamination Kit - Dieselogic Remanufactured

2015-2019 Ford Powerstroke 6.7L Scorpion CP4 Pump Failure / Disaster / DEF Contamination Kit - Dieselogic Remanufactured
www.dieselogic.com www.dieselogic.com

I don't think that's too far off your DCR kit with an extra pump.
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I know a guy who had it done by an independent shop and he said the bill was 10k. Another guy I know that had the dealership screw him on the warranty was 12k
 
So the S&S kit showed up today. I was about to start the return process but figured I'd look into it a bit more.

Found this video, and although I haven't finished it, it seems to be convincing. To intentionally make a pump fail and drive the truck until it almost stops running shows some confidence in thier kit.



It does seem most of the negative reviews of the dpk are other brands.
 
06h3 said:
I know a guy who had it done by an independent shop and he said the bill was 10k. Another guy I know that had the dealership screw him on the warranty was 12k
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Yes. But you're comparing that to the cost to install a dcr kit yourself. Apples to oranges.

My point is that a dcr kit and a spare that you mentioned, is very similar cost to a failed cp4 if you do all the work yourself.
 
Seems like cheap insurance?

Edit. The S&S kit seems like cheap insurance
 
Interested to see how the instal goes, i might get one. My 6.7 has 123k.
 
YotaAtieToo said:
Yes. But you're comparing that to the cost to install a dcr kit yourself. Apples to oranges.

My point is that a dcr kit and a spare that you mentioned, is very similar cost to a failed cp4 if you do all the work yourself.
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If you compare Install of a pump vs pump, injectors, lines, etc. it’s a big money or time difference.

Even bigger difference far from home.
 
06h3 said:
If you compare Install of a pump vs pump, injectors, lines, etc. it’s a big money or time difference.

Even bigger difference far from home.
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I'm not following you.

Are we talking a dcr kit plus labor vs a total cp4 failure fix plus labor?

Or are we talking a dcr kit plus a spare dcr pump and installing it yourself vs a cp4 failure repair fix, installing the parts yourself?

Because he second is what you mentioned, and they're about the same cost.

Add the dpk to the cp4 and in theory, you'd only be replacing a pump also. So :confused::laughing:


The dcr is just not proven enough on the 6.7 psd for me. I'm not willing to be the guinea pig for the diesel ricer companies who all seem to come and go. I personally think they are the most hack group in Motorsports overall. Doesn't mean s&s isn't legit, but that group has all touted up a shit company before.
 
YotaAtieToo said:
I'm not following you.

Are we talking a dcr kit plus labor vs a total cp4 failure fix plus labor?

Or are we talking a dcr kit plus a spare dcr pump and installing it yourself vs a cp4 failure repair fix, installing the parts yourself?

Because he second is what you mentioned, and they're about the same cost.

Add the dpk to the cp4 and in theory, you'd only be replacing a pump also. So :confused::laughing:


The dcr is just not proven enough on the 6.7 psd for me. I'm not willing to be the guinea pig for the diesel ricer companies who all seem to come and go. I personally think they are the most hack group in Motorsports overall. Doesn't mean s&s isn't legit, but that group has all touted up a shit company before.
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The labor on a dcr kit is substantially less so if you do it yourself your saving time or if you have someone else do it your saving money. The labor is substantially more to replace all the crap you need to replace for a cp4 failure. I’m comparing it to installing a dcr before the failure of a cp4.

That’s fine, you don’t have to be the Guinea pig. We all can make our own choices. I will probably never own a 6.7 powerstroke. I don’t want to own a truck that has a 7% failure rate on a part and that they refuse to do anything about after a decade plus of documented failures that flat out just don’t happen to ram and Chevy owners (looking at non cp4 years)
 
Snowy said:
The huge downside of a DCR pump is that you’re completely on your own if you breakdown on the road with any fuel system related issue, not just an imploded pump. No dealer is going to want to deal with it and good independent shops are few and far between these days. At least paying the idiot tax (yes I own one) of owning a CP4 truck is possible if a pump implodes rather than being on your own a thousand miles from home.
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this is a very valid point that I do actually consider for myself. We have and were planning on driving all over the usa in this pickup. Up until now we had always said if the CP4 fails on the road and we get it big quote we will just trade it and walk away.

But now we are talking about slide camper, or towing a small camper and that makes it harder to just trade for whatever is sitting on the lot.

If you take a modded fuel system to a dealer in the middle of no where with a trained monkey doing the CP4 swaps he will look at that and say you need everything.
Okay that may be true. But now also you don't have a good core, so you just added another $1000? to the bill, or more?

Then all that hard work you put into the DCR conversion is out the window.

Also the disaster kits. I seriously doubt a dealership would put it back on for you.

Of course there are private shops, but you don't get nationwide warranty out of Joe Bob's diesel repair.

But then if you never travel far from home my point is moot.
 
YotaAtieToo said:
I'm not following you.

Are we talking a dcr kit plus labor vs a total cp4 failure fix plus labor?

Or are we talking a dcr kit plus a spare dcr pump and installing it yourself vs a cp4 failure repair fix, installing the parts yourself?

Because he second is what you mentioned, and they're about the same cost.

Add the dpk to the cp4 and in theory, you'd only be replacing a pump also. So :confused::laughing:


The dcr is just not proven enough on the 6.7 psd for me. I'm not willing to be the guinea pig for the diesel ricer companies who all seem to come and go. I personally think they are the most hack group in Motorsports overall. Doesn't mean s&s isn't legit, but that group has all touted up a shit company before.
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You’re arguing with yourself here…. He doesn’t own one of these trucks, never will, but knows all of the nuances about them from “mahsistersthirdbabydaddycousin.”
 
Tiha said:
this is a very valid point that I do actually consider for myself. We have and were planning on driving all over the usa in this pickup. Up until now we had always said if the CP4 fails on the road and we get it big quote we will just trade it and walk away.

But now we are talking about slide camper, or towing a small camper and that makes it harder to just trade for whatever is sitting on the lot.

If you take a modded fuel system to a dealer in the middle of no where with a trained monkey doing the CP4 swaps he will look at that and say you need everything.
Okay that may be true. But now also you don't have a good core, so you just added another $1000? to the bill, or more?

Then all that hard work you put into the DCR conversion is out the window.

Also the disaster kits. I seriously doubt a dealership would put it back on for you.

Of course there are private shops, but you don't get nationwide warranty out of Joe Bob's diesel repair.

But then if you never travel far from home my point is moot.
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That is one of those plans that only sounds good until the dealer gives you an offer on your two year old, non running, repairable under warranty truck….. I’ve been there
 
Wilson said:
That is one of those plans that only sounds good until the dealer gives you an offer on your two year old, non running, repairable under warranty truck….. I’ve been there
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That is true, it is different for everyone. What I paid for my 2014, it is impossible for me to lose money on it.

Just throwing thoughts and ideas out there, everyone has to make their own choices.
 
Wilson said:
You’re arguing with yourself here…. He doesn’t own one of these trucks, never will, but knows all of the nuances about them from “mahsistersthirdbabydaddycousin.”
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All I did was offer a potential option in a 6.7 maintenance/mod thread. It is a new product and added it for people to make their decision. The CP4 is a hot topic. I quote,

"To prevent further detailing the thread there is an option for maintenance/mods.
1) do nothing
2) get disaster prevention kit
3) dcr pump conversion

Just listing the options. Disclaimer to anyone interested: do your own research before deciding"

Conversations continued, so I continued and the people that have had CP4 failures are not a cousin best friends' sister. They are real people who I personally know and have personally shown me the repair bill. A good chunk of the people I camp/wheel/ with have 6.7 fords. While I dont own one, I am around them. We talk about our vehicles.

The DCR is an OEM Pump.

www.stanadyne.com

Diesel Common Rail Fuel Pump

Stanadyne’s high-pressure diesel common rail fuel pump offers a competitive edge with its next-gen eccentric operating strategy.
www.stanadyne.com www.stanadyne.com

The picture looks identical to the DCR pump S&S sells. It says it is for 2.0-16L engines. Standayne has been around forever and has been an OEM supplier for years. Again, not trying to tell you the DCR Pump is the way to go, I am just listing facts and people claiming it is some thrown together hackjob by some aftermarket company IS NOT true. A statement like, "will the DCR and 6.7 work well together long term?" Is a solid question we do not have the answer to.

Finally, it has been documented that the CP4 has a 7% failure rate. That is inexcusable in my opinion in today's day and age. It was argued that it's a 1% failure rate in Europe. Fuel or the idiot behind the wheel? Well if its fuel, they need to make a pump that handles US fuel quality, or lack thereof. If its driver related, then Ford owners must be retarded because you don't see a 7% failure rate on Non CP4 Chevys or Rams.
 
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